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Chris Burisek
09-14-2008, 10:05 AM
Anyone into top dressing lawns? I am thinking of adding this as a service.
How many can be done per day with the right equipment and how many yards of compost/top dressing do you go out with each day? What vehicle would be best? Dump truck? Our average lawn is 5,000 - 6,000 sq ft.
Thanks for your help. We would like to core aerate, seed and top dress lawns next year.

DUSTYCEDAR
09-14-2008, 10:33 AM
SO GET TO IT
i use a mulch blower to blow compost

JDUtah
09-14-2008, 11:08 AM
Dusty, any suggestions where to get a mulch blower (ie good supplier etc)? They are pretty NOT common out here, that and slice seeders... we live in ancient times here in Utah.

Daner
09-14-2008, 04:02 PM
Anyone into top dressing lawns? I am thinking of adding this as a service.
How many can be done per day with the right equipment and how many yards of compost/top dressing do you go out with each day? What vehicle would be best? Dump truck? Our average lawn is 5,000 - 6,000 sq ft.
Thanks for your help. We would like to core aerate, seed and top dress lawns next year.

Chris ...there are so many variables to answer your questions...but yes great idea to add to your service...how many a day? you will find out when you get going at It. Yes a Dump truck or insert or dump trailers are very common...just get into It and It will all fall Into place

Prolawnservice
09-14-2008, 04:45 PM
Would a manure spreader work for compost or do you need to use a top dresser? I have also heard of using a hydroseeder but I'm not sure how?

Daner
09-14-2008, 05:17 PM
Would a manure spreader work for compost or do you need to use a top dresser? I have also heard of using a hydroseeder but I'm not sure how?

Yes...a manure spreader works...But you have to modify the paddles....with that being said...there used on large properties only

Dooger54
09-14-2008, 05:52 PM
Look into the Earth & Turf Topdressers. They have two pull behind models, the 200 and 320. I have the 320. For topdressing, they can't be beat.

http://www.earthandturf.com/

phasthound
09-14-2008, 06:26 PM
Look into the Earth & Turf Topdressers. They have two pull behind models, the 200 and 320. I have the 320. For topdressing, they can't be beat.

http://www.earthandturf.com/

The self propelled model is awesome, too.

wallzwallz
09-14-2008, 06:34 PM
Dooger what are you pulling it with? Ball park price? thanks

cudaclan
09-14-2008, 07:58 PM
Last link is for the DIY'er or a small plots.

http://www.ecolawnapplicator.com/
http://www.topdresser.ca/?Video
http://www.emeraldseedandsupply.com/lawn/index.html

treegal1
09-14-2008, 08:39 PM
get a shovel and a wheel barrow until you can get one of these, we are trying to get to be a dealer........

http://www.ecolawnapplicator.com/

Dooger54
09-16-2008, 10:17 PM
I'm pulling it with a 35 hp diesel compact tractor, which is more than enough. The weight of my unit is about 700 lbs but the smaller 200 model is around 500. The 320 new will cost you around $5K, the 200 around $2,800. I was lucky enough to find mine used, but they are hard to find.

DUSTYCEDAR
09-16-2008, 11:16 PM
Finn Makes A Great Unit

ICT Bill
09-17-2008, 09:21 AM
Daniel is a nut, what a character, also makes a nice spreader

DeepGreenLawn
09-17-2008, 01:34 PM
Last link is for the DIY'er or a small plots.

http://www.ecolawnapplicator.com/
http://www.topdresser.ca/?Video
http://www.emeraldseedandsupply.com/lawn/index.html

I like the first one more I think... it seems to have a bigger hopper which = less trips back to the truck.

ICT Bill
09-17-2008, 01:38 PM
I have seen the eco in person but have not used one in the field. It is built EXHD, my slang for Extra Heavy Duty. I believe there are different engine options as well but I may have my manufacturers mixed up.

Good luck getting a word in when you talk to Daniel and you will love his Canadian accent

phasthound
09-17-2008, 01:56 PM
Lawnboy just got himself an Earth & Turf sp100.
He made a nice modification to increase the hopper size.
Maybe he'll post a photo.

I also built up the hopper on mine. It handles the weight no problem, is easy to maneuver and spreads evenly.
Now If I could just levitate the compost off the truck & into the hopper. :)

robtown
09-17-2008, 05:35 PM
http://http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n173/jtlangan/DSC01346.jpg (http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n173/jtlangan/DSC01346.jpg)Thanks again Barry
This topdresser is great. Alot of thought went into this thing and thy guys that work there are great. They took there time to everything about the machine.
Here are the pics of the 100sp.
I made the diamond plate hopper extension ...now it holds about 24 cuft
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n173/jtlangan/DSC01346.jpg

treegal1
09-17-2008, 05:41 PM
wow thats nice metal work, you can see your shoes are un tied.JK,LOLOL. really nice!!!:clapping::clapping::clapping:

growingdeeprootsorganicly
09-17-2008, 07:05 PM
robtown,


does it work well? whats the spread width with that machine?
if you don't mind what was the final cost? aroundabout?

can i borrow that next week? lol i have alot of wheel barreling to do...3 weeks worth to be exact!!!

DeepGreenLawn
09-17-2008, 07:10 PM
robtown,


does it work well? whats the spread width with that machine?
if you don't mind what was the final cost? aroundabout?

can i borrow that next week? lol i have alot of wheel barreling to do...3 weeks worth to be exact!!!

OK fellow wheel barrelers... what have you found to be the best tool/process for spreading? I have done it from scoop shovels to cut up wiffle ball bats...

any suggestions as to what you have found to work the best?

treegal1
09-17-2008, 07:42 PM
up until 3 weeks ago it was a gwat or mex that did my spreading, stupid labor laws.....

we got an ecolawn and are trying to become distributors

robtown
09-17-2008, 07:50 PM
I paid list for the topdresser.
The diamond plate aluminum cost me $200 and about 3 hours to cut it up and weld it up

DeepGreenLawn
09-17-2008, 07:53 PM
up until 3 weeks ago it was a gwat or mex that did my spreading, stupid labor laws.....


I know you had mentioned the bat idea before... what was the way they applied the stuff to a larger area? Scoop shovel? Just seems hard to get it to an even coverage not to mention the time and labor involved.

treegal1
09-17-2008, 08:08 PM
when labor was cheap it was a shovel and a blower to knock down the larger piles, and get it in the lawn. the new way is a real time saver, I by myself can do 5 acres in a day and still take the phone calls

growingdeeprootsorganicly
09-17-2008, 08:16 PM
wiffle ball bats??????? did you get that from tree? no wonder they took her labors
work faster..........waaaaacccckkkk!!!!!!!!:hammerhead: JK:laugh:

DeepGreenLawn
09-17-2008, 08:17 PM
yeah... I am hoping to make enough this fall to be able to purchase one... then next year, or maybe this winter make enough to get a CT brewer... can't forget those worms...

What would you say is the order of things needed most? I figure the worms can be done cheap enough to make CT that they won't be too much of a problem...

CT or Topdresser for compost? I am thinking CT...

DeepGreenLawn
09-17-2008, 08:18 PM
wiffle ball bats??????? did you get that from tree? no wonder they took her labors
work faster..........waaaaacccckkkk!!!!!!!!:hammerhead: JK:laugh:

HAHA! Thats funny... I cut it in half and it made a good scoop... just wasn't wide enough, I used the big red one...thinking maybe a big ice scoop you find in an ice machine? The scoop shovel is so big and can be heavy...

treegal1
09-17-2008, 08:24 PM
yeah... I am hoping to make enough this fall to be able to purchase one... then next year, or maybe this winter make enough to get a CT brewer... can't forget those worms...

What would you say is the order of things needed most? I figure the worms can be done cheap enough to make CT that they won't be too much of a problem...

CT or Topdresser for compost? I am thinking CT...worms, tea and top dresser, in that order. the worms are easy and cheap , the tea is the next most expense, saving money with the tea should bring your #'s up so you can get the good spreader

DeepGreenLawn
09-17-2008, 08:44 PM
that is what I figured... thanks for the confirmation.

robtown
09-20-2008, 07:09 AM
Well I finally got to use the topdresserand here is my first take on it.
Pros more than enough power ...even with the extension on it and the compost being a little moist the belt pushed the material right along.
It does get a little top heavy with the extension so i wouldnt do more than a 15 degree hill with it filled to the top.
The first lawn was front yard only about4500 sqft , I spread 3.5 yards with seeding it took me about 2 hours with cleanup.
2nd I have only done the back yard which was 4500 sqft 3.5 yards of compost with seed and clean up it took me 1.5 hours.
As you get a little used to the machine it goes faster. I am still running it at half throttle.
I will post some pics of before and after later.
I will aslo be adding small brushes to where the tires are to keep them clean while driving.
this should eliminate some of the clean up.

phasthound
09-20-2008, 05:38 PM
Well I finally got to use the topdresserand here is my first take on it.
Pros more than enough power ...even with the extension on it and the compost being a little moist the belt pushed the material right along.
It does get a little top heavy with the extension so i wouldnt do more than a 15 degree hill with it filled to the top.
The first lawn was front yard only about4500 sqft , I spread 3.5 yards with seeding it took me about 2 hours with cleanup.
2nd I have only done the back yard which was 4500 sqft 3.5 yards of compost with seed and clean up it took me 1.5 hours.
As you get a little used to the machine it goes faster. I am still running it at half throttle.
I will post some pics of before and after later.
I will aslo be adding small brushes to where the tires are to keep them clean while driving.
this should eliminate some of the clean up.

Yea, the more you use it, the faster you get. It will go faster than I want to, but I'm an old fart. It is very easy to maneuver, gets into corners well & doesn't spread onto walkways unless you goof up. You do have to be careful about tuning on hills if you build up the hopper. Very heavy duty, I expect it to hold up for many years.

Rob, I'm not sure what problem you're having with the tires, since the compost is dropped after the tires have passed. Are you overlapping?

robtown
09-21-2008, 07:10 AM
Here is pic.
you can see the striping.
It took 5 trips to put this down.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n173/jtlangan/DSC01356.jpg
Barry ...The chute isnt as wide as the tires..leaving about a 10 inch gap between passes.so I wind up riding on the previous pass by a few inches to get rid of the gaps.
Some of it ...not much sticks to the tires and when i get on pavement comes off and gets stuck to it and is a pain to get off.
The good news is I am picking up more buisness from it.
It took 2 hrs to put 5.5 yards down at one location.

growingdeeprootsorganicly
09-21-2008, 07:26 AM
rob,

did you rake or blow down any of those piles afterward so no to smother existing grass?

thats why i asked you about the spread pattern from behind!!! a spinning spreader disk would help with preventing piles for even dispersion like the eco spreader but that spreader does not have the capacity as yours.

still looks like a good job you did though! :drinkup:

phasthound
09-21-2008, 08:06 AM
Here is pic.
you can see the striping.
It took 5 trips to put this down.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n173/jtlangan/DSC01356.jpg
Barry ...The chute isnt as wide as the tires..leaving about a 10 inch gap between passes.so I wind up riding on the previous pass by a few inches to get rid of the gaps.
Some of it ...not much sticks to the tires and when i get on pavement comes off and gets stuck to it and is a pain to get off.
The good news is I am picking up more buisness from it.
It took 2 hrs to put 5.5 yards down at one location.

The compost I've been using has been pretty dry, so it's not sticking to the tires.

Are you putting 1/4 inch down, or more?

robtown
09-21-2008, 08:18 AM
growingdeep. I go back with a push broom to smooth out any piles to make sure the grass is peeking through. I tried the rake and a blower but the broom seems to be the best.
Barry ...yeah this batch seemed to be a little moist. It is set for 1/4 inch but I think it is coming out a little thinner.
Are you using the ag choice?

DeepGreenLawn
09-21-2008, 08:20 AM
Are you putting 1/4 inch down, or more?

That seems to look like a lot of compost....

phasthound
09-21-2008, 08:24 AM
growingdeep. I go back with a push broom to smooth out any piles to make sure the grass is peeking through. I tried the rake and a blower but the broom seems to be the best.
Barry ...yeah this batch seemed to be a little moist. It is set for 1/4 inch but I think it is coming out a little thinner.
Are you using the ag choice?

It looks like more than 1/4 inch from the photo to me.
I have a local source for compost.

robtown
09-21-2008, 08:45 AM
unless they are giving me more when they load it. I have the sqft and how many yards it should take at a 1/4 of an inch and it is close but i am I have left over material.
It looks more even when it is broomed.
I will keep playing with it and see.
right now i am driving about 45 mins for good compost...I will see if I can find something a little drier.

tedfrk
09-21-2008, 09:20 AM
where do you all get your compost?i am in forked river new jersey,anny help would be great.

DeepGreenLawn
09-21-2008, 10:01 AM
Depends on where you are... I personally cannot find a good quality compost so I will be making my own soon...

you can check with any landscape suppliers... you want it well screened as you are putting it on the lawn and you don't want any big items or woodchips that would be unsightly.

DeepGreenLawn
09-21-2008, 10:02 AM
unless they are giving me more when they load it.

I have never gotten a load of compost that was exactly what they said it was... most of the time it is more...

one supplier I have used... I asked for a yard and got about 6, they just wanted the stuff gone due to overstock...

growingdeeprootsorganicly
09-21-2008, 12:18 PM
.
right now i am driving about 45 mins for good compost...I will see if I can find something a little drier.


rob,
it didn't look like it but did you aerate too?

gee 45 min? i hope you have a big stakebody truck and trailer to make it worth it getting compost? you don't have local made compost from your leaf and grass ete county disposal yard?

from the looks of your pic it looks like you put down a yard per 1000 give or take
just some areas look like more some look less, big yard $$$$$$$$$

ive use a push broom too some times but i prefer a mid size grading rake,mid size STIFF plastic leaf rake and a blower to finish depending

robtown
09-21-2008, 01:27 PM
I aerated, seeded than composted.
7x 12 dump trailer built up about 5 ft
I have done the math again and it is light about 2 yards if this is 1/4 per 1000.
I will be putting extra on the trees and flower beds.
the county compost is garbage. ... street sweepings, pine needles, weeds, grass, and what ever else people can sneak in.

Barefoot James
09-25-2008, 11:21 PM
Way to much compost! I have top dressed compost on over 300,000 sq ft this fall all after power seeding. Real simple (very dirty - but simple) 27 cu ft = 1 yard. I use a 6 cu ft wheel barrel heaped so I figure I get 7 cu ft easy per load. 4 wheel barrel loads is about a yard. I have several really powerful Red Max back pack blowers 8001 - about $500 (1000 cfm+ air volume). I simply wheel it out to a spot and blow it out (go around the WB in a circle and your heapped load will go really far 20 + ft away from WB in all directions - then you need to blow from back to take advantage of the ront funnel slope and be carful to stay up wind or you get a face full - which is really going to happen all te time no matter how good you think you are - like i said VERY dirty days. I getting 1 yard to go about 4 to 5K - just a good dusting is all that is needed to help germinate the power seeding and feed my compost tea/myco/humus apps. Germination with 4 times per day (11AM, 2PM, 4PM & 6PM - 10 min cycles) is getting 1 inch of grass in 5 to 6 days and first cut in 14 - when over seeding existing I'm cutting sometimes in 7 days.

JDUtah
09-25-2008, 11:32 PM
James... do you seed after using the blower on your overseed jobs???

ICT Bill
09-25-2008, 11:38 PM
Mr Barefoot, nice to see you on here it has been a while

Excellent advice, spoon feeding, yep, uh huh, thanks

I have never tried it that way, ever, very inventive.

Do the neighbors gawk??? Have they ever called the police on you?

"Hello 911. there is a man, at least I think its man, blowing stuff all over my neighbors yard, he disappears sometimes and is making a lot of noise"

It sounds like you are going to make a profit this year, yep, uh huh

just a good dusting is all that is needed to help germinate the power seeding and feed my compost tea/myco/humus apps
JD, it sounds like he is applying after, i do believe, yep, uh huh

treegal1
09-25-2008, 11:43 PM
a blower. LOLOL that brings new meaning to mud in your eye.LOLOL what would my insurance say????

DeepGreenLawn
09-26-2008, 05:55 AM
I kind of like the idea... fast, less labor intensive, and I have all the equipment needed.... just wear goggles and a face mask and your good...

DUSTYCEDAR
09-26-2008, 08:40 AM
i want to just put baskets on my dogs and go play ball with them as they spread the compost.

phasthound
09-26-2008, 08:51 AM
i want to just put baskets on my dogs and go play ball with them as they spread the compost.


That would make everyone happy!

Barefoot James
09-26-2008, 08:55 AM
I have done both before and after - however I get the most bang by covering the seed with the compost.

Two things to minimize the compost dust in your face and person just blow the top layers as it goes down this achieves two things good coverage and no cumps flying out.

The other thing is to make sure if you do it after you seed not to let the blower blow the gorund our new seed you just seeded. To do this takes awareness. Like when I move the wheel barrel I make sure the blower is on the top and not pointed at ground and if you are solo stop it before you set it down and make sure the blow is pointed up when starting. You don't want to have areas that have been hit with the blower once seeded and this all takes a little technique to get this right - just practice!

treegal1
09-26-2008, 09:16 AM
awareness= the first sign of a solo LCO, some of the lower primates I work with, wow............

DUSTYCEDAR
09-26-2008, 09:19 AM
Not everyone can get all the brains

treegal1
09-26-2008, 09:51 AM
I am not asking a lot, just more brains than a worm, stupid labor laws, I could get a gwat to do a nicer job and never have to say one word to him!!! its just dirt and a rake!!!I could train a chimp to do it!!

treegal1
09-26-2008, 09:56 AM
here proof that a chimp would do a better job

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC25X6d2dds

my guys would be sleeping in the truck or smoking

hunter
09-26-2008, 10:48 PM
they even taught some stupid humans how to catch and eat termites.

Smallaxe
09-27-2008, 09:58 AM
TG keeps talking about stupid labor laws. In my opinion they should make laws against stupid labor. Stupid labor usually ends up on welfare anyways. Stupid labor are a hazard to themselves and others when they have machinery.
Lots of problems with stupid labor so why do we make laws for them? Just get rid of them. IMO

phasthound
09-27-2008, 06:59 PM
they even taught some stupid humans how to catch and eat termites.

Spit my beer all over the keyboard, thanks!! :drinkup:

phasthound
09-27-2008, 07:00 PM
TG keeps talking about stupid labor laws. In my opinion they should make laws against stupid labor. Stupid labor usually ends up on welfare anyways. Stupid labor are a hazard to themselves and others when they have machinery.
Lots of problems with stupid labor so why do we make laws for them? Just get rid of them. IMO

"You can't cure stupid."

Barefoot James
09-27-2008, 08:38 PM
tree how much compost are you using per acre or 100 sq ft - 5 acres a day solo with the Ecolawn?? This looks like a great unit. We did a 25K sq ft property today and used 3 yards of compost - took two hours.

treegal1
09-27-2008, 09:00 PM
almost 3-4 yards,per acre, although I have not been keeping track very well lately, you can adjust the out feed door for more or less, we have only had the new machine for a little while. the goose neck trailer will hold 14 yards, and the self unloader is a real work saver

Barefoot James
09-27-2008, 10:27 PM
What is a self unloader? Picture or website. Can one go on a landscape trailer. A dump trailer holds about 7 yards or heaped maybe up to 10. Their pictures make it look easier when you are able to tilt it up and then scoop it into the Ecolawn - if you have a self loader this would be ideal. I'm really socked i never really knew about this before. I actually saw two up in CA when I picked up my CT sprayer at Rittenhouse. I told them of my interest in spreaders yet they did not gush over it at all. It says they go 7 mph - this is running do they really go that fast? Also do you think it would be possiable to take that back wheel off and attach it to your Dixie Chopper or a Wright Stander - this would reallybe something.

treegal1
09-27-2008, 10:52 PM
25 du tex holds 25 cu or 28000 lbs, my new site will be up soon,all the toys from a to z and classes are in late oct, jan and feb late, then the summer classes are maybe going to be webinars.....

DUSTYCEDAR
09-27-2008, 10:53 PM
Self unloader ????

treegal1
09-27-2008, 11:06 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HGfvMDyeDo&feature=related

like this except slower and out of the truck, or trailer.....

DUSTYCEDAR
09-27-2008, 11:13 PM
Did u get a mulch mule?

Prolawnservice
09-27-2008, 11:50 PM
25 du tex holds 25 cu or 28000 lbs, my new site will be up soon,all the toys from a to z and classes are in late oct, jan and feb late, then the summer classes are maybe going to be webinars.....

Class on!!!! yea, when in Oct. how much?

Compostwerks LLC
09-28-2008, 06:45 AM
almost 3-4 yards,per acre, although I have not been keeping track very well lately, you can adjust the out feed door for more or less, we have only had the new machine for a little while. the goose neck trailer will hold 14 yards, and the self unloader is a real work saver

The first job that we used our Eco-Lawn spreader, we spread 60 yards of compost in 12 hours with two people. I believe that the area was roughly six acres. You can see the before/after pics here (http://www.compostwerks.com). The terrain was really rough, and the compost was too wet. The job would have gone a lot faster if we had dumped the compost in smaller piles throughout the field (duh).

If you are spreading large amounts, a front end loader will help bigtime. This is how we loaded the Eco-Lawn on this six acre job.

If anyone wants to check out the machine in NY or NJ, give me a shout.

The disk in the front is ideal, because you can determine how wide of a swath you would like to spread, and the adjustable outfeed door controls the amount being spread. The fluffer in front of the outfeed door deals with any bigger clumps which saves you from going back with a rake.

treegal1
09-28-2008, 07:12 AM
The first job that we used our Eco-Lawn spreader, we spread 60 yards of compost in 12 hours with two people. I believe that the area was roughly six acres. You can see the before/after pics here (http://www.compostwerks.com). The terrain was really rough, and the compost was too wet. The job would have gone a lot faster if we had dumped the compost in smaller piles throughout the field (duh).

If you are spreading large amounts, a front end loader will help bigtime. This is how we loaded the Eco-Lawn on this six acre job. if we did that to any of the residential lawns here we would be burned at the stake, yes a front end loader is a great tool, we have tried all sorts of machines from a 2500$ farm tractor to skid steers and a 85,000$ front end loader and even an excavator or 2, it sucks and is destructive and messy at best.the un loader is just what we needed. all we have to do is pull up and hit the switch, it even pre fluff's the compost.

that 200 gallon brewer you are selling is that 2 linear air pumps to drive it??

Compostwerks LLC
09-28-2008, 07:17 AM
Yes, two air pumps. The AL-80 drives the diffusers, and the AL-60 drives the bottom bubbler and extraction chamber.

treegal1
09-28-2008, 07:27 AM
so thats around 10 cfm for the 2 pumps???

Compostwerks LLC
09-28-2008, 07:34 AM
I belive it's about 8 CFM free flow. That is something that I would have to look up quite honestly.

treegal1
09-28-2008, 07:41 AM
so a 200 gallon brewer is only using .04 cfm per gallon, that's interesting......... don't look it up I have it sitting in front of me now, so at 75 deg F and 8 cfm you get tea???200 gallons of tea??? or is this a 200 tank and it only gets used 1/2 full

treegal1
09-28-2008, 07:48 AM
maybe not even 8

treegal1
09-28-2008, 08:08 AM
Class on!!!! yea, when in Oct. how much?Oct 24, 25, 26, we will have a schedule next week, it will cost about 800$ unless you want to make you own brewer at the sat morning class, 250 and 500 gallon units are going to be on hand!! some meals and a camp site if you wish( hot and cold water, electrical and a refrigerator), also some of the best fishing in the world, salt and fresh.....there is also a hotel with resonable rooms in town and willing to give some great deals, we are chamber members and get great rates.

made with a real tank and a regenerative blower( cfm to spare)and a tank that is meant to move and not just sit still and wait around, has a high flow pump and venturi if time get hot or if you want to load your 250 gallons into a tank before you forget that you forgot.

these are the tanks we use, sorry the 250 is not in the pic, same concept.........

Prolawnservice
09-28-2008, 08:58 AM
OK how much with building the brewer on Sat morning? Will it fit in a short bed pick up to bring home? Will there be a portion of the class dedicated to the business end, explaining your selling of a look?

treegal1
09-28-2008, 09:40 AM
the 250 gallon brewer is going to cost 2589.00$ it is a Regen blower type, with pump,110 volt, solar is extra and it comes with a load of casts and compost, about 10 brews worth, it will fit nicely in a truck, it is 50 inches wide and 67 inches tall, the blower is only a twist away from being on or off the unit, so set up takes 5 minutes, plus you get to build it your self, with someone to guide you and explain how why what!!! as far as the business of how to sell a look, It would be my pleasure to share with you all, nice smile, great no BS attitude, good quality work at a cost conscious price!!! if you really want we can ride around for a while and I will show you how to go to the door and get 4 out of every 10 that we stop at, cold call or door to door, Miami, broward, palm beaches, stuart,PSL , vero. its so easy.......

and your truck, take all the casts and compost you want, bed the brewer down in it if ya want!!!!

treegal1
09-28-2008, 09:42 AM
we will have worms and all the other toys out there as well.....

bio diesel also, that will pay for the class in just about 400 miles, based on a full trailer and truck.LOLOLOL

Prolawnservice
09-28-2008, 09:49 AM
:) nice!!!!!!!!!!!

treegal1
09-28-2008, 10:00 AM
yeah this is going to be a fast paced very broad learning situation, not just the old beat the book work to death again, more get out in the field and do it in a real life situation, plant the seed, grow the worms, get the ideas and tools needed to get the job done, how to put fuel in the truck and green up grass, please bring some of you favorite raw materials to the class, sea weed, bag O dung, local compost, what ever you have a lot of just laying around, even the dreaded mushroom compost, its called make it work time!!!! I am not going to be shy about this, I will show it all from the first compost screen to the first and failed diy tea brewer, a 500 acre sod farm that's done in my ways and style, how I have come up over the last 5 years and so on, if ya want to read a book do it at home LOL, this is for real folks that want, no need to get this done the correct way from the start and keep it going, even if the economy starts to fail.............ya got to eat!!!

growingdeeprootsorganicly
09-28-2008, 01:05 PM
so a 200 gallon brewer is only using .04 cfm per gallon, that's interesting......... don't look it up I have it sitting in front of me now, so at 75 deg F and 8 cfm you get tea???200 gallons of tea??? or is this a 200 tank and it only gets used 1/2 full


:nono::cry:

Prometheus
09-28-2008, 01:19 PM
wow maybe he needs to come down and see tree's class. LOLOL, you should see me cook for her, its like the hells kitchen home edition.LOLOL

DUSTYCEDAR
09-28-2008, 01:59 PM
DAMMIT WHY DO U HAVE TO BE IN FLORIDA
will there be winter classes?

treegal1
09-28-2008, 02:01 PM
oct jan feb, are those winter,:dizzy:, just so that you know one snow flake and I will want to kill myself:laugh:

ice is for mixed drinks at the beach...............

DUSTYCEDAR
09-28-2008, 02:09 PM
i love snow it keeps the crybabies inside for a while.
nothing like sledding done a steep slope at a scary speed. in a truck lol

growingdeeprootsorganicly
09-28-2008, 02:32 PM
the snow......can't wait for it to come......then get wait for it to be gone?

we don't get much anymore here but it's so dame beautiful when we get a nice covering

love it! great memories......

dusty,
try getting towed by a truck with 50 ft of rope on an inter tube on the snow covered streets at 30+mph
dame we where stupid? so much fun though!!!

DUSTYCEDAR
09-28-2008, 10:40 PM
TUBE THAT COST MONEY
trash can lid sparks lots of sparks

dtally
09-30-2008, 06:24 AM
Barefoot

I tried the blower idea yesterday. Awesome! Very fast, very efficient and very very messy. It does take practice. I used a two man crew, one to push/pull the wheel barrow and myself blowing the compost, Great idea! Covered about 7K in about 30 mins. including fill ups.

treegal1
09-30-2008, 08:11 AM
mmmmm blower idea,,,,, patent office....... race ya........

DUSTYCEDAR
09-30-2008, 08:12 AM
Do u have pics of the coverage?

DeepGreenLawn
09-30-2008, 08:17 AM
very very messy.

Isn't this kind of the idea?

Barefoot James
09-30-2008, 09:58 PM
Don't have pics but you know you got good coverage based on the compost cover you get on top of the sidewalk, road, stepping stones, etc. I would guess when spreading 27 cu ft (1 yard) over 6 to 8K of turf you are only getting1/16th inch or less of depth in compost - but VERY even when using the blower (vs rake). This is plenty if you are backing it up with tea, humus and myco. If overseeding you would probably want to do about 4K per yard or even 3K per yard. I have noticed a big difference in high end "gourmet" compost vs pretty good quality compost. The gourmet I'm talking about comes from Throughbred Landscape Products out of Lexington, KY - pretty pricey stuff delivered about $30 a yard ($25 if you PU) - 25 yard min vs the stuff I get local @ $16. They both work great but the $30 stuff REALLY works. Much thicker grass results when power seeding/overseeding. The $30 also has composted horse poo vs just grass, chips and leaf finished compost (no poo) - both are about 90 days old - finished.

treegal1
09-30-2008, 10:02 PM
Don't have pics but you know you got good coverage based on the compost cover you get on top of the sidewalk, road, stepping stones, etc. I would guess when spreading 27 cu ft (1 yard) over 6 to 8K of turf you are only getting1/16th inch or less of depth in compost - but VERY even when using the blower (vs rake). This is plenty if you are backing it up with tea, humus and myco. If overseeding you would probably want to do about 4K per yard or even 3K per yard. I have noticed a big difference in high end "gourmet" compost vs pretty good quality compost. The gourmet I'm talking about comes from Throughbred Landscape Products out of Lexington, KY - pretty pricey stuff delivered about $30 a yard ($25 if you PU) - 25 yard min vs the stuff I get local @ $16. They both work great but the $30 stuff REALLY works. Much thicker grass results when power seeding/overseeding. The $30 also has composted horse poo vs just grass, chips and leaf finished compost (no poo) - both are about 90 days old - finished.top shelf compost is the key, the more different stuff in it the better, 90 days is a great long time to finish compost, how small a screen will it pass?????

GravelyGuy
09-30-2008, 10:06 PM
We just did this all by hand because we couldn't find a damn machine around here. I don't think I'll be doing it again anytime soon.

treegal1
09-30-2008, 10:09 PM
wow can I get some sod with the compost please, lol, you should have sold them on the 3 year plan, thats 3 years of compost there,eh nice job any ways, no SOM needed there anymore. LOLOL

Barefoot James
09-30-2008, 10:31 PM
1/8 inch but it is more like 1/4 inch - most of the "gourmet" compost is really fine - however I have one of those (don't laugh) roller spreaders and they with the metal grate and it exposes all the bigger stuff which I assume is the horse poo balls about as big a a large marble and lots of them - I fail to see hw they made it past their sreening process. But it works great!

BTW it the roller spreader dumps way too much compost and is VERY labor intensive (filling up into a little hole) but it does spread well but then you end up with all the left over junk that it does not spread - so pass on using it. hey at least I can test compost to make sure it would go through my hydro seeder.

treegal1
09-30-2008, 10:48 PM
BTW it the roller spreader dumps way too much compost and is VERY labor intensive (filling up into a little hole) but it does spread well but then you end up with all the left over junk that it does not spread - so pass on using it. hey at least I can test compost to make sure it would go through my hydro seeder.

that just to funny we have one somewhere, maybe rusting out back, phill made a giant one also, to pull with a tank or a locomotive, it does not see any use, and the are using way to much compost at once, I mean if you need 1/2 -2 inches then dont mess around just nuke the lawn and start over......... IMO.......

dtally
10-01-2008, 07:12 PM
Here is a small yard, composted by hand. Before the blower idea came up. This rear yard was totally crabgrass, weeds and Bermuda grass. This yard was re-constructed on the 24th of September. I had a crew there today doing follow up and was told they wish the had a mower. I will go by next week and mow and take some "after pictures".

This yard was power raked, seeded, organic starter fertilizer placed and then lightly watered in with Bill's ICT.

wallzwallz
10-01-2008, 08:14 PM
dtally is that an overseed or new lawn install?

kjslawn
10-01-2008, 08:29 PM
We just did this all by hand because we couldn't find a damn machine around here. I don't think I'll be doing it again anytime soon.

http://bullspreader.com/index.htm Worth the money I would think $2999

dtally
10-02-2008, 05:22 AM
New install, old yard was removed

wallzwallz
10-02-2008, 05:53 PM
Sorry dtally, I guess if I read what you wrote when you posted the pic , I wouldn't have to ask. Looks good.

DUSTYCEDAR
10-04-2008, 11:57 PM
I like the bull

Macrae
10-05-2008, 08:42 PM
http://bullspreader.com/index.htm Worth the money I would think $2999

kjslawn, did you ever talk to them?

kjslawn
10-06-2008, 04:35 PM
kjslawn, did you ever talk to them?

No I was willing to spend 3k with them but no call back I will just wait till next yr and buy a earthnturf.

Compostwerks LLC
10-06-2008, 05:16 PM
No I was willing to spend 3k with them but no call back I will just wait till next yr and buy a earthnturf.

Your much better of with the Eco-Lawn (http://www.compostwerks.com/EcoLawn-Applicator.php). It's a lot more versitile than any other ones that I have seen.

It is not picky about not having 'perfect' compost. You will run into trouble with the others if the material is too wet or is clumpy.

You can also spread a wider swath which saves you a lot of work. Here is a video (http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=eco+lawn+applicator&emb=0&aq=f#).

I am a dealer for this machine. Feel free to ask me any questions.

Peter

www.compostwerks.com

treegal1
10-06-2008, 06:29 PM
yes the eco lawn is the way to go, I to will be a dealer soon, maybe next week, I also use them in my day to day thing, they are the one to use, even if it takes hand spreading a while longer to get one, trust me its the way to go, enter eco lawn on you tube, there are a bunch of videos

DeepGreenLawn
10-06-2008, 07:50 PM
how easy is it to be able to put it on a dump trailer so you have one less thing to tote around... it would seem that if you could put it on the tongue that would work... otherwise wouldn't you have to have multiple trucks and trailers to haul everything?

JDUtah
10-06-2008, 07:56 PM
how easy is it to be able to put it on a dump trailer so you have one less thing to tote around... it would seem that if you could put it on the tongue that would work... otherwise wouldn't you have to have multiple trucks and trailers to haul everything?

As an idea (for dump truck/insert) courtesy of Tilt a rack (http://www.discountramps.com/mobility_scooter_carrier.htm)

http://www.discountramps.com/Tilt-a-rack.gif

Or custom dump trailer like the one in their video..

DUSTYCEDAR
10-06-2008, 08:08 PM
Bring cash i weld

Macrae
10-06-2008, 09:26 PM
No I was willing to spend 3k with them but no call back I will just wait till next yr and buy a earthnturf.

I feel the same way. If this is their customer service before the sale happens...how's it gonna be after they've got your $$$?

Macrae
10-06-2008, 09:28 PM
Your much better of with the Eco-Lawn (http://www.compostwerks.com/EcoLawn-Applicator.php). It's a lot more versitile than any other ones that I have seen.

It is not picky about not having 'perfect' compost. You will run into trouble with the others if the material is too wet or is clumpy.

You can also spread a wider swath which saves you a lot of work. Here is a video (http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=eco+lawn+applicator&emb=0&aq=f#).

I am a dealer for this machine. Feel free to ask me any questions.

Peter

www.compostwerks.com

Compostwerks, how much does that unit cost?

robtown
10-07-2008, 07:16 AM
I still say get the earth & turf one.
I am not a dealer Nor do I have any interest in this company.
There customer service is top notch. If you need something or have a question they will give you all the help you need.
I love these videos theses companys post on there site. Material is alway from a bag and is always nice and dry.
Thats great but do you really think you are going to do a 10000 sqft area with bagged material. you will loose your shirt. ...So it is a bulk buy.
The material I used this year was moist....I would have preferred something a little drier but there are somethings I can not control ....THIS YEAR.
The Earth & Turf handled the moist material like a champ, nice and even no clumps.
I still would not like a machine that would ride over the material after it is spread.
You just aerated than put seed down and now you spread compost. Would you drive your mower on it? What if you had moist compost and it decides to stick to the tires?
Also I like having 4 wheels on the ground. Mostly becasue I like speading 22-24 cuft at one time( I built the hopper Up ..it doesnt come that way standard) it saves time going back and forth. It does ok on hills but I cant Imagine doing it with three wheels.
These companies need to show someone using it as a contractor, With trees and islands some hills and a built up hopper.
Good luck with your choice.

Compostwerks LLC
10-07-2008, 07:59 AM
I still say get the earth & turf one.
I am not a dealer Nor do I have any interest in this company.
There customer service is top notch. If you need something or have a question they will give you all the help you need.
I love these videos theses companys post on there site. Material is alway from a bag and is always nice and dry.
Thats great but do you really think you are going to do a 10000 sqft area with bagged material. you will loose your shirt. ...So it is a bulk buy.
The material I used this year was moist....I would have preferred something a little drier but there are somethings I can not control ....THIS YEAR.
The Earth & Turf handled the moist material like a champ, nice and even no clumps.
I still would not like a machine that would ride over the material after it is spread.
You just aerated than put seed down and now you spread compost. Would you drive your mower on it? What if you had moist compost and it decides to stick to the tires?
Also I like having 4 wheels on the ground. Mostly becasue I like speading 22-24 cuft at one time( I built the hopper Up ..it doesnt come that way standard) it saves time going back and forth. It does ok on hills but I cant Imagine doing it with three wheels.
These companies need to show someone using it as a contractor, With trees and islands some hills and a built up hopper.
Good luck with your choice.

I should really try to post a video with using the Eco-Lawn on some steep terrain. This is an area where it shines. I can't say that I have ever come close to flipping it over.

The manufacturer is also a landscape contractor. The video on his website was shot on some of his customer's job sites. He uses the Eco-Lawn daily in his operation.

Driving over the compost; The only time I have had compost stick to the tires is during a rain storm. This is clearly not the time to handle compost with any machine. I can honestly say that this is not much of a factor.

Conversely, I wouldn't really be much into walking backwards all day, which is what you would have to do with the Earth & Turf if you wanted to minimize drive or walking over the material you had just spread.

Since it's a drop spreader, how would you avoid driving over some of this material??? You still have to drive over some of this material to cover the diameter of the tires, right? At least this was the case when I tried it.

How moist is key... I wouldn't expect any machine have an issue with dry materials. I have spread 60+% moisture compost with Eco-Lawn with little trouble, with sticks, rocks in the compost.

The bottom line; There is no perfect machine. We're each going to have our own criteria to meet. Mine was the ability to navigate rocky/hilly terrain with good ground clearance.

I think I saw a post of the extended hopper that you built. Which thread was it on? It looked really nice as I recall.

What is the price on that unit? I forgot what the retail price was....you have the 100 SP, right?

Compostwerks LLC
10-07-2008, 08:16 AM
Compostwerks, how much does that unit cost?

The investment is $5,600.00 plus shipping, which is usually about $200.00 to $250.00

TF PLUS
10-07-2008, 09:32 AM
My name is Tom and as you can see I'm a new member to this site. First I would like to thank everyone for sharing their experience and knowledge, its been very helpful. I have been in the landscape care business in Southwest Florida on Marco Island since 1986. Up to this summer we were a fertilizer application service only (Granular Chemical). I will post in area to introduce my service later, I have lots of questions and a lot to share. Concerning the Eco-Lawn Applicator peaked my interest. Before I found this site at the end of August I found the site for Eco-Lawn and in fact my worm castings supplier in N-Central FL sent up 80 pounds of casts to test in the applicator. The test was completed by September 22 and worked well according to e-mail, so that afternoon I wired-money up direct deposit. There has been an issue with shipping and the owner is now out of town until November(HE is staying in touch with me), so I will not be receiving my machine until then:cry:
Tom

Compostwerks LLC
10-07-2008, 09:55 AM
Hi Tom;

Ahhhh....you lurk no more! It was nice to speak with you on the phone last week.

Tom, where did you get that vermicompost from? It was nice material. I was there with Daniel when we did the test, and it worked really well. This photo was taken after spreading 20 pounds of that vermicompost.

We spread it on the lot so that we could see the distribution. I would say that it spread it 10 feet wide by 70 feet long.

Welcome aboard!

TF PLUS
10-07-2008, 10:15 AM
Hi Peter,
I was lofting instead of lurking:dancing: Wow! that's a nice spread a 60/40 split; that will work efficiently. Those are not vermicompost there 100% pure Black Castings from Vermitechnology Unlimited and there is a supplier in Florida. After our conversation the other day, I'm thinking combining different makes of worm casts to achieve a better soil-herd. Like some others combine different composts (diversity?) to achieve a better soil-herd using compost and compost or worm teas.

Compostwerks LLC
10-07-2008, 11:16 AM
Yes Tom, diversity is KEY.

We blend different composts together when we put together our compost for making compost tea...so this is practice is directly applicable for direct soil applications of mature compost as well.

It's a little different for compost made for compost teas, in that you want a wide broad range of feed stocks in different stages of decomposition so that maximum diversity is realized. Vermicompost is part of the quotient, but not the complete picture by any means.

So rather than blending different worm based composts, why not blend a worm compost with a good thermal compost from someone who actually tests their material? If documented compost is not available, you can innoculate the compost blend once it is spread with excellent compost tea. To make excellent compost tea, you must start with excellent compost (http://www.compostwerks.com/Our-Compost.php).

Your on the money!

JDUtah
10-07-2008, 11:43 AM
Mods + "To make excellent compost tea, you must start with excellent compost (http://www.compostwerks.com/Our-Compost.php)." might = :nono: or payup

Compostwerks LLC
10-07-2008, 11:46 AM
Mods + "To make excellent compost tea, you must start with excellent compost (http://www.compostwerks.com/Our-Compost.php)." might = :nono: or payup

No, it's cool. They have my graphics and CC#. They're working on getting my sponsorship working.

JDUtah
10-07-2008, 11:59 AM
Ahhh cool.

Remember... passive advertising. :)

.02

TF PLUS
10-07-2008, 12:03 PM
The worm castings are pure and are from an excellent source with testing reports, yes, my thoughts would be to hopefully find a local source for compost to mix with casts and spread just compost. Off Island down the road a piece is a supplier, I will visit them. :walking:
Diversify,
Tom

treegal1
10-07-2008, 01:23 PM
we have 25 and 900 lbs bags of some great worm casts, we also have some tropical worms that make a high humate cast that is great for brewing as it has a good fungal load. we are east of lake Okeechobee, in port mayaka, we also have top soil and compost.and we can ship and deliver to your door

treegal1
10-07-2008, 01:24 PM
Mods + "To make excellent compost tea, you must start with excellent compost (http://www.compostwerks.com/Our-Compost.php)." might = :nono: or payupyes and a brewer that has adequate air.....

DUSTYCEDAR
10-07-2008, 02:01 PM
we have 25 and 900 lbs bags of some great worm casts, we also have some tropical worms that make a high humate cast that is great for brewing as it has a good fungal load. We are east of lake okeechobee, in port mayaka, we also have top soil and compost.and we can ship and deliver to your door

send it north

TF PLUS
10-07-2008, 02:10 PM
Hi Treegal,
I like the idea of tropical-worm casts. My first approach was to apply castings directly to entire landscape as a top dressing 20 to 40 pounds per 1000 sqft and let palm-roots take on the St Augustine-roots but my conventional self-propelled broadcast spreader made it impossible to spread castings even mixed with corn meal. Currently have 2.5 tons of CM and 1 ton of castings in stock. CM by it self spreads ok with equipment but it is a major dust bowl. To many pool cages where dust would land, a big mess. Eco-Lawn Applicator guy is back in November and will solve the shipping problem but in the mean time need to spread at least CM in lawns and hand spread casting for bushes and trees located in planter-beds. Going to add liquid humate to corn meal to see if dust is reduced and able to go through the spreader. Treegal are close to being a distributor for Eco-Applicator, maybe a sales/rental plan in the works? Will use teas in near future tried a sample of a worm-tea, too soon to see response... TG do you still have classes on Wednesday nights?
Tom

treegal1
10-07-2008, 02:27 PM
yes we do the wed night classes on thursday now, that's more of a general over view, we are having a real class for lcos this oct 24 from a to z even can build your own compost tea brewer during the morning on sat the 25.

Tom have you done any thing with the casts and the corn meal to make a pellet??

we are in a holding pattern with the eco lawn folks, the guy we where dealing with had to leave town, so I dont know if we will have one for this first commercial class in oct but the jan class we will have for sure.

dusty PM me an address and what you want, I will ship again in the am.

also tom welcome back, hope you have been well! wet down that way this year???? LA was soaked last time I was there.

TF PLUS
10-07-2008, 02:57 PM
Treegal
not sure what you mean:
(Tom have you done any thing with the casts and the corn meal to make a pellet??)
I love rain... but not so much green-brown waterways or the merky gulf.

treegal1
10-07-2008, 04:15 PM
tom I was asking if you have tried mixing some molasses into a mix of casts and corn meal, we use a cement mixer and it "pans" them into a pellet of sorts, we can then spread them with a lesco drop spreader or by hand.no more dust.

Prolawnservice
10-07-2008, 04:35 PM
Always wondered if that would work, just didn't want to drop the coin on a cement mixer for that purpose. How do you keep it from turning into batter??????? Add the molasses slowly I guess not too much???

TF PLUS
10-07-2008, 04:38 PM
Treegal, Sweet...suggestion. Very simple approach and more herd-food to mix. I will try it tomorrow, we have 2 feed stores in Naples and of course a few in Immokelle. Pellet size similar to granular.
Thanks,
Tom

treegal1
10-07-2008, 06:04 PM
we got the idea from how its made candy, and then looked more on you tube. now we have graduated into a pellet press, so far thats hit and miss with the die size.

take the paddles of a cement mixer so the beads roll and don't tumble, then its just a matter of dripping single un connected drops into the " pan " after a while it does not have any dry powder. we ad char and all sorts of other things to the " herd pellets " but most of the time if its a big yard we just top dress with some compost +

Prolawnservice
10-07-2008, 06:49 PM
I thought about the pellet mill a while ago, another experimental expense though :(, what works better? How do you make the individual drops?

TF PLUS
10-07-2008, 07:19 PM
I see more clearly,candy drops, interesting. I do have a large electric cement mixer I used to blend fertilizers in, did not mix well, but... how about mixing in a 10cubic ft wheelbarrow and a hoe that worked very well to mix those other fertilizers in and it worked great to mix worm castings and CM together? CM is in 50 pound bags gradually adding molasses and/or/or not, a liquid humate type, etc... until powder is eliminated? Call it Dust-Buster-Technique (A corny name:laugh:).

treegal1
10-07-2008, 07:46 PM
we made a droper out of an old rabbit feeder, drip drip drip. it goes fairly fast, I have also looked at a commercial icing tool to do the drips........

TF PLUS
10-09-2008, 09:43 AM
Can Worm Casting Alone Be Used as a Choice of Top Dressing? (Remember: These casting I am suggesting are rated top three in the country [Ha] )
If this is a dead horse please let me know.

I am trying to re-program the brain from chemical-application mode of feeding plants (Feeding is not the correct word) to building a healthy soil environment approach. Instead of applying bagged organic blends to achieve...such and such results, supplying organic matter into soil environment would/could if the proper material is used. I am suggesting top dressing with worm castings for now until a better whole material can be found in my area or until I can produce my own. I am understanding that teas and other additives will be needed and yes, testing. My first experience with worm castings was that they can be delivered to my area efficiently and remember these castings could be one of the top three best in the country.

Just an up-date, dust is still an issue with the corn meal. I mixed 10 pounds of casts to 50 of CM, sprayed on some molasses did help a little (3 oz. to gal of water. maybe to diluted). It was still hard to spread but was working. If I use more than 10 pounds of castings to the mix it will not go through the broadcast spreader. Tried just molasses with CM, dried out as I was spreading and became dusty. How about a little vegetable oil, it work with EDDHA Iron Chelate? It's off to work I go...soon. Good morning everyone,
Tom

DeepGreenLawn
10-09-2008, 11:39 AM
castings are like black gold... but... from what I understand pricey at the same time to be used for topdressing...

Don't hold me to this though, just going on the prices I have been given around here...

treegal1
10-09-2008, 01:21 PM
tom I dont know EEDHA is but we just use some blood meal, or chum blood, its cheap and works great for chelation.worm casts can get real expensive, so the idea is to get your own worm farm going, but as far as the pallet cost, it still beats the price of fert now. most of the time they can go in the range of 300$ to 800$ per ton. to multiply there effective ess you brew them. the dust issue is just a matter of panning them some more, it takes a few minutes to roll around and get harder. down in marco it should not be hard to get your materials!

TF PLUS
10-09-2008, 04:06 PM
Hi DGL,
yes from what I can research they are Black Gold. The recommendation is to apply 40 pounds to 1000 sqft of established landscapes twice a year. Lets say I can get a ton of castings for 800$, that's about .40 cents per pound, need 40 pounds per 1000 equals 16.00$. Now, in May I paid close to 1360$ a ton, that's about .68 cents per pound for last custom order of chemical 8-2-12. Rate was 15 pounds per 1000 sqft equals 10.20$ four times per year. The soil environment can utlize most of the worm castings but little of the 8-2-12. What one charges to apply, that's up to them...

Greetings TG1,
the dust issue, well I'm close to getting it solved.
The EDDHA is just another form of a chemical chelation Iron element that was mixed into one of the 8-2-12 U of FL blends I had ordered several years ago; it was a dusty red mess. It's range can be used in soil pH of 10.

Cast Castings,
Tom

treegal1
10-09-2008, 04:15 PM
wow 1300+$ on casts, I tried to edit my previous post to say more $$$ JK strait bed run with out shipping is going to be about 375$ for my casts, i am trying to get some super GA casts sent down, but trucking is the rub now and we are going to try and get 24 $ per 25 lbs bag shipped in the mail..............deep do you want to drive a u haul down????

TF PLUS
10-09-2008, 04:38 PM
TG1, $1360.00 was for the 8-2-12 chemical'

TF PLUS
10-09-2008, 04:45 PM
TG1, I was charged 200$ for the shipping for 2 tons of casts from N-Central Florida, they use Central Transport. I thought that was very reasonable to Marco Island.

DeepGreenLawn
10-09-2008, 04:52 PM
Sign me up... I have no issues driving a uhaul... hell I drive a fire truck every third day

treegal1
10-09-2008, 05:01 PM
thats not to bad, I was trying to get about 30 tons shipped down, I will need 10 More tons than I have a present to fill some of the orders for next month, at present we can turn out about 18 tons per week so I might make another worm bed, I don't know why this month has been short of my expectations. I only turned out about 32 tons, and I shipped most of what I had to broward. most of the time we make a run over to LA and come back up 41 so bringing them down to marco is no big deal, I can tote about 10 tons on the goose neck with out any issues, and it comes back from homestead empty, so eh its just under the lake no dig deal, its not like trying to leave the state.LOLOL

treegal1
10-09-2008, 05:03 PM
Sign me up... I have no issues driving a uhaul... hell I drive a fire truck every third daycool then maybe next month at or around the end of the month we will do it, I was going to have you go by my secret worm stash and get a load of worms and casts, I will shoot ya a pm later.

TF PLUS
10-09-2008, 05:09 PM
Treegal, what is your opinion on using just worm castings as a top dress and if you do, how much would you apply?

treegal1
10-09-2008, 05:20 PM
Treegal, what is your opinion on using just worm castings as a top dress and if you do, how much would you apply?I think that's why I am running short this month.LOLOL this month we used a lot, we also went through almost 250 tons of compost, and now horse season is a month away, I am freakin out, I went and looked at a side dump trailer on a kenworth today..................... 1 ton per acre more or less

treegal1
10-09-2008, 05:26 PM
tom you also know that you can get an 8-2-12 out of soy and wood ash..........................then add it to your casts and top shelf compost and its easy easy, whats the lbs per acre of K there in marco??? or ppm

TF PLUS
10-09-2008, 05:39 PM
TG1, Cast Castings u-go-gal, nice work.

(High-Jack here: Classes on Thursday what time does it start for future reference? and you have several 3 day events planned, need more info when you have time.)

Thanks for all your help,
Tom

DeepGreenLawn
10-09-2008, 06:04 PM
now horse season is a month away,

what exactly is horse season?

TF PLUS
10-09-2008, 06:19 PM
Treegal, for general maintenance about 86 pounds per acre. I had used a coated K sulfate to aid in slow release with some slow release Mg about 33 pounds, applied 4 times per year. If there were deficiencies going spot treat at a slightly higher rate.

I did not know of a soy base 8-2-12; I was adding K-mag 0-0-22 with Humic Acid and Fulic Acid currently to casts about 4 pounds per 1000 sqft to help with K and Mg. MY brain is trying to re-programme from chemical. The soil will take care of itself, move away from the chemicals-Tooooooom.
Learning,
Tom

TF PLUS
10-09-2008, 06:24 PM
My elder Brother's Quarter Horses competed better in less heat, less rain. But that's just his horses in Naples, Florida.

DGL, btw, nice work done on newby threads, I learned a lot, thank you for your efforts.
Tom

DeepGreenLawn
10-09-2008, 07:15 PM
DGL, btw, nice work done on newby threads, I learned a lot, thank you for your efforts.
Tom

glad to help...

treegal1
10-09-2008, 09:03 PM
tom I just did a small private class also for some missionary's, at this Thursdays class, we hold out on the chambers front lawn so to speak, its called jammin jensen, local color and native flair, with a garden class and live music.

oct 24,
Open questions and sod farm tour(organic) till 5:00 then its a power point on bio fuels.
Oct 25,coffee,then we build your own compost tea brewer, you can just watch or really build your own, bring your tank or use mine after 11:00 we are going to do the fast worm how to and demo, with the flat pack worm bed on display, and see how to harvest and store casts. then we eat a great lunch, meat or fish from Ians tropical grill. then we move on to compost, in the field with at least 6 ways to do it( with little or no machine, if you want). we will try and cover most of the basics to get a great compost pile going and managed correctly. bio diesel plant demo, and a bio char retort demo(with real fire and smoke), plus some of the coolest pics I have gathered from all over, dinner and camp fire or you can just go back to your hotel and sleep(I don't do that much)
oct 26, 8:00 blessing and coffee, then we jump into local materials use and how to use different raw materials, make your own fish oil and other special brews from what you have in your area, bone char, wood ash,water plants and sea weed,and and and... then some lunch and its on to weeds, the very weakest point in most care plans. after that we load up every one brewers and compost, tour a tree farm(organic) and say fare well to every one that came or go deep sea fishing on the lady Stuart.

I know where I will be at.........

treegal1
10-09-2008, 09:05 PM
what exactly is horse season?
A lot of our farms here are thorough breds and they are gone from may till nov

DeepGreenLawn
10-09-2008, 09:10 PM
A lot of our farms here are thorough breds and they are gone from may till nov

what are you doing with the horses? Just caring for them or do you have a program you use for their feed?

If there is a program we can put together for feed, pasture type stuff, then I think there could be BIG money in this. I know I asked before about what is good nutrition for a horse but as far as putting this to practice and all I still have no clue...

I am use to lawns, not pasture, but I am interested...

treegal1
10-09-2008, 09:34 PM
it all started just soliciting them to take care of there pasture,when I picked up manure. then they ask about me and if I farmed organically, then I said sustainable and all that. next thing you know I got a few that are letting me do a test plot or 3. mostly tree type fodder but some other seeds and forage also, cow peas and red beans on the fence lines and some bushophia and lucine, as shade/food crops, and this one that I was told about by an old Cuban, water Mellon!! sounds strange but the Egyptians where doing it to feed animals 3000 BC, the seeds do not digest so the animals pass a certain amount of then in a fertilizer pellet. then there is Cuban sunflower and a few others in my arsenal of food crops for free, one horse farmer says that she has seen a 10 lbs gain in almost all the animals and the one old one that had some feed issues is doing fantastic with the bean and sunflower diet.

I was thinking of getting together with on old friend of mine that has owned a seed bank for a while and having him set up a fodder mix for us to use.

TF PLUS
10-10-2008, 11:21 AM
tom I just did a small private class also for some missionary's, at this Thursdays class, we hold out on the chambers front lawn so to speak, its called jammin jensen, local color and native flair, with a garden class and live music.

oct 24,
Open questions and sod farm tour(organic) till 5:00 then its a power point on bio fuels.
Oct 25,coffee,then we build your own compost tea brewer, you can just watch or really build your own, bring your tank or use mine after 11:00 we are going to do the fast worm how to and demo, with the flat pack worm bed on display, and see how to harvest and store casts. then we eat a great lunch, meat or fish from Ians tropical grill. then we move on to compost, in the field with at least 6 ways to do it( with little or no machine, if you want). we will try and cover most of the basics to get a great compost pile going and managed correctly. bio diesel plant demo, and a bio char retort demo(with real fire and smoke), plus some of the coolest pics I have gathered from all over, dinner and camp fire or you can just go back to your hotel and sleep(I don't do that much)
oct 26, 8:00 blessing and coffee, then we jump into local materials use and how to use different raw materials, make your own fish oil and other special brews from what you have in your area, bone char, wood ash,water plants and sea weed,and and and... then some lunch and its on to weeds, the very weakest point in most care plans. after that we load up every one brewers and compost, tour a tree farm(organic) and say fare well to every one that came or go deep sea fishing on the lady Stuart.

I know where I will be at.........

Treegal, Thanks for the info.

What time is Thursday class. Marco to there must be 2 hour plus driving time. And what is the cost of 3 day event and can you just go to one day of choice? Can you arrange private tour. I understand your time is money. (wrong choice of words)
Tom

treegal1
10-10-2008, 12:19 PM
tom just pick up your phone in a few minutes...............

treegal1
10-10-2008, 12:33 PM
tom you need to update your internet optimization

Kevin1
12-18-2008, 09:51 PM
I did a test this fall by topdressing a lawn. I wanted to build up the organic matter in the soil. I topdressed about 4,000 of the 9,000 sq. ft. area. I stress useing IPM on all of my lawns so this area I have aerated atleast 3 times a year and I done a 5 step synthetic fertilizer program. I added 2yds of cow manure compost that had around 12%N in it. I did the topdressing in September and did NOT see any difference in the lawn between the area I topdressed and the one that I didn't topdress. Both areas are almost exactly the same. Why did I not see any results? What did I do wrong? The following steps is what I did to topdress:

1-double pass core aeration
2-spread compost into rows off trailer
3-adjusted shoes on snow blade on garden tractor to 3/8" tall
4-Distributed rows of compost around with snow blade
5-still had rows so adjusted shoes to 3/4" tall
6-Distributed rows of compost around with snow blade
7-rows all worked in evenly
8-double pass core aeration on entire 9,000 sq. ft. area

Kiril
12-18-2008, 11:31 PM
Huh? What did you expect to see?

growingdeeprootsorganicly
12-18-2008, 11:55 PM
did you expect to see this? oct renovation 12/4 pics ,costumer cuts it him self

JDUtah
12-18-2008, 11:58 PM
If the soil was N deprived you might have seen an increase? Compost it without the 5 ferts and you might see it? I saw a decent side by side green up with a 2% N compost at 1/4"... the line lasted about 6 weeks... the soil only had one spring fert in april (pre-emerg/fert, 1# N per 1,000) then nothing till compost in July... oh and no winterizer the fall before...

NEW CITY LAWN CARE LLC
12-19-2008, 12:01 AM
did you expect to see this? oct renovation 12/4 pics ,costumer cuts it him self

So do you basically cover the grass with compost until you can't see the grass anymore and then it simply grows through the layer of compost?

growingdeeprootsorganicly
12-19-2008, 12:03 AM
last pic can you see the difference between property's? that was topdress and the area that wasn't?

JDUtah
12-19-2008, 12:08 AM
He scalped the lawn, seeded, then composted... Just guessing?

Deeproots,
Part of the difference is because your new growth does not have blades of grass in the dead/decomposing stage... I give the compost some credit, but not all. Any newly established turf in the early or late months can look better than it's similarly fertilized counterparts (established turf), but again, compost does help... when the nutrients are not already there (from his 5 ferts)....

Just my opinion.

growingdeeprootsorganicly
12-19-2008, 12:31 AM
that lawn in in ocean city nj and has no irrigation, sandy soil is an understatement for shore lawns, it will be a on going process at that site building good soil structure over time to help fend off summer drought and grow a nice lawn:), ill keep you posted on it with pic's next year

heres a update pic of a lawn i topdress in the spring, pic is from 12/?/08

growingdeeprootsorganicly
12-19-2008, 12:32 AM
jd,

whats your opinion on this lawn dec color?

JDUtah
12-19-2008, 12:51 AM
good job man, indeed

wallzwallz
12-19-2008, 08:09 AM
Looks great GDRO, even better for December. The yards I top dressed in September are the only real dark green ones left. We have had single digit nites and some days not breaking freezing. The yards I do organic and didn't top dress w/ compost are still greener than the avg lawn but not as green as the composted ones. You have the self propelled top dresser? How finely screened does the compost have to be, to be used in the machine? The compost I buy is screened, but still has small diameter sticks and peebles, would they pass or would I need to rescreen it? thanks for any help.

treegal1
12-19-2008, 09:02 AM
nice GRASS man.............:waving:

GaGolfSup
12-19-2008, 09:07 AM
I wonder if the increased microbe activity due to compost increase soil temps slightly...Could that help explain the color later in the season and earlier spring green up???

growingdeeprootsorganicly
12-19-2008, 09:26 AM
wallz,
i would like too see some pic's if you got'em? no self propelled compost spreader yet:cry: wheel barrels and rakes, little back pack blower action where possible. man power is the name of the game to get it done economically.

if larger sticks/stones become a issue or make more raking needed it might be a good idea to screen again but that can be a pain if your not set up to do large volume, even a couple of yards would take hours hand screening and shoveling? best bet would be find better supply or make do with what you got?, maybe get a large delivery of good compost to your shop if you have the space and equipment to load it? since most compost is young i would love to sit on 2-300+yards for a year before i apply it to let it cure more and grow more fungi,maybe cover crop it with grass and inoculate it with mycorrhizae?

maybe try screening it from the truck over a wheel barrel and run loads like that maybe if you have help?

im sure Tree gal and others have some good input on the subject to offer?

growingdeeprootsorganicly
12-19-2008, 09:57 AM
nice GRASS man.............:waving:


thanks tree, i owe it all to mother nature

wallzwallz
12-19-2008, 05:37 PM
I thought you did have the machine , must be another Jersey guy. The compost is screened and spreads fine w/ wheel barrel and shovel.There is a small amount of sticks and shells that make it past the screen that come out on a finish rake. I just wondered how sensitive these topdressers can be for passing debris. I have no pics of the work, these weren't showcase lawns just a few neighbors and relatives small lawns that have become my testing grounds. No room left here for storing my equipment never mind compost lol. I just bought an old topdresser off ebay last nite, that's why the ???'s on the machines.

Smallaxe
12-20-2008, 06:42 AM
I wonder if the increased microbe activity due to compost increase soil temps slightly...Could that help explain the color later in the season and earlier spring green up???

That is a real possibility. Another thing too is the physical insulating layer covering the shallow roots.

treegal1
12-20-2008, 07:01 AM
That is a real possibility. Another thing too is the physical insulating layer covering the shallow roots.
I have observed a 3-10 degree difference depending on the type and amount of compost and how well finished it was.

Smallaxe
12-20-2008, 08:55 AM
I have observed a 3-10 degree difference depending on the type and amount of compost and how well finished it was.

3 Cheers for meticulous testing. :)

I suppose one could do half the lawn to set a baseline to see how long that temperature difference lasts - then - use that as a guide to show when you need to reapply! Every soil and habitat being different makes it difficult to establish a "Rule of Thumb" for all lawns.

It would be great to just say -When the soil cools off to the level of the other half - compost the other half. Then note the temperature change so you can reapply the previous side when stasis once again prevails.

Simple enough.

Kevin1
12-22-2008, 09:31 PM
Kiril-
I expected the lawn to look better where I did the topdressing. Maybe the area that I topdressed would have had a little darker green grass. I'm possibly going to offer topdressing for the 2009 season so I wanted to see if it really works. The two areas that a did the test on had a soil texture of 2 so the soil is very sandy. I'm not doing the test on a perfect soil profile. What I am getting at is if you don't see any result from topdressing then why do it? Will I see results in 2009? I would have charged someone about $100.00 for this. If I had a 4000 sq. ft. lawn and someone topdressed it with 2yds of compost, aerated it 4 times, and charged me $100.00 I would be pissed off if I never seen any results!

Kiril
12-22-2008, 09:53 PM
I expected the lawn to look better where I did the topdressing.

Why would you expect that? The idea here increase soil tilth/structure, fertility, biological nutrient cycling, etc... Over time this leads to a system that requires less inputs, therefore more sustainable. I believe your mistake is trying to compare an application of compost to a conventional fertilize. This is not a fair comparison given the benefits you are trying to obtain with compost are not realized over the short term. If you are selling your client on immediate results using compost, you need to revise your sales pitch.

ICT Bill
12-23-2008, 10:30 AM
Why would you expect that? The idea here increase soil tilth/structure, fertility, biological nutrient cycling, etc... Over time this leads to a system that requires less inputs, therefore more sustainable. I believe your mistake is trying to compare an application of compost to a conventional fertilize. This is not a fair comparison given the benefits you are trying to obtain with compost are not realized over the short term. If you are selling your client on immediate results using compost, you need to revise your sales pitch.

I agree with this, we get this comment a lot. "We sprayed compost tea once and we didn't a good green up like I expected."

My answer is always, it is not a fertilizer, long term you will see great results just not over night or in a week like you would applying NPK.

It is very hard to get out of the NPK mindset, as kiril said, long term you are on the right track and will have wonderful results and you will not have to go to the fertilizer store anymore

There are folks in NOFA ( www.organiclandcare.net download the "standards for organic land care" manual) that have not made a trip to the fertilizer store, or had urea near any property for 15 to 20 years and the sites are stunning, they are on site 4 or 5 times a year but often just applying compost tea or compost 2 or 3 times a year.

After the sites get nutrient cycling going there is very little input needed

DUSTYCEDAR
12-23-2008, 11:25 AM
THATS GREAT NO FERT
how do you keep the crabgrass out?
i can do it on my lawn as i mow it but on sites i dont mow in comes the crab.

ICT Bill
12-23-2008, 12:11 PM
THATS GREAT NO FERT
how do you keep the crabgrass out?
i can do it on my lawn as i mow it but on sites i dont mow in comes the crab.

We have a liquid corn gluten meal product that is 93% effective against crabgrass according to the Iowa State University studies. It will be available in mid February and has 1.5% nitrogen, compared to granular which is 10% nitrogen.

granular at the labeled rate cannot be used in Florida anymore, the new FL law states no more than 1 pound of N per application. granular at the labeled rate is 2 pounds of N per 1000
Our Gluten-8 product at the labeled rate is .33 pounds of N per 1000

growingdeeprootsorganicly
12-23-2008, 03:31 PM
We have a liquid corn gluten meal product that is 93% effective against crabgrass according to the Iowa State University studies.

can you post the study pertaining to your product please?
93 % seems like a pretty impressive # for organic weed control product.
can we see data?

DUSTYCEDAR
12-23-2008, 03:49 PM
AT THAT RATE ILL TAKE SOME
now what is the catch do i have to spray it every 2 weeks?
will i have to take it in a tanker load?
will i have to promise to not ever feed it to my lawn after midnight?????"gremlins reference"
bill thanks for keeping up with the curve to keep us moving forward.

Smallaxe
12-23-2008, 06:17 PM
AT THAT RATE ILL TAKE SOME
now what is the catch do i have to spray it every 2 weeks?
will i have to take it in a tanker load?
will i have to promise to not ever feed it to my lawn after midnight?????"gremlins reference"
bill thanks for keeping up with the curve to keep us moving forward.

Are we talking about the "Organic Herbicide" about to be released in Canada that is so hush - hush here in the States?

You really only need to suppress crabgrass while the soil temp is over 55 degrees and then only for the first few months of the growing season. At least here in the cool season grasslands - there is very little need for crabgrass control. ...*Just referencing my personal experience. :)

Therefore the big question is: Does it require a long term cumulative effect in order to work?

JDUtah
12-23-2008, 06:23 PM
Does it require a long term cumulative effect in order to work?


A copy of the study would address most questions, I presume.

Smallaxe
12-23-2008, 07:20 PM
A copy of the study would address most questions, I presume.

Well - Let's see what's posted and whether it references the typical 2 year build up or not. :)

ICT Bill
12-24-2008, 10:44 AM
A copy of the study would address most questions, I presume.

Here is one study which compared many products, in one instance they came back with 95% control of crab grass http://www.hort.iastate.edu/gluten/pdf/cornglut3.pdf

Iowa State Univ owns the rights to CGM to be used as a pre-M, all of the studies are on their site http://www.hort.iastate.edu/gluten/ there are many many papers on here

Gluten-8 is sold in gallon containers 1 quart treats 1000 sq ft, it is mixed 1 quart gluten-8 to 3 quarts water, this will treat 1000 sq ft. the cost of 1 gallon is $39.95 and it will treat 4000 sq ft

The Gluten-8 (liquid corn gluten meal) product has many advantages, it does not have to be watered in, it is not a dusty mess to apply, better efficacy because the application can be controlled better, only 1.5% N instead of 10% N, 1 (9 pound) gallon represents 80 pounds of CGM, it is currently about 10% to 15% cheaper than granular at $10.00 per 1000. It is also available in 275 gallon totes which treats 25.252 acres

Smallaxe, it was released in Canada Feb of 2008 as a liquid

DUSTYCEDAR
12-24-2008, 10:48 AM
How thick is this stuff?
Can it go though a permagreen?
Will i have to use my tank sprayer?

ICT Bill
12-24-2008, 10:53 AM
How thick is this stuff?
Can it go though a permagreen?
Will i have to use my tank sprayer?

I will get a viscosity number, I don't have it handy but will post. it is a 3 to 1 mix with water so it shouldn't be an issue. the issue with a PG is can it put out 1 gallon per 1000 of mix, I don't think so without modifications

you could make 2 passes at .5 gallons per 1000

DUSTYCEDAR
12-24-2008, 10:54 AM
Right bill little mods and 2 pases works

Kiril
12-24-2008, 11:35 AM
Well - Let's see what's posted and whether it references the typical 2 year build up or not. :)

References?

You keep mentioning this, however I have never seen anything about a required 2 year build-up. There is definitely a correlation between observed control and concentration, but with respect to time, the only thing I have seen is application timing with respect to germination .... (i.e. more control observed when application takes place just prior to germination).

Furthermore, if the herbicidal properties of CGM are indeed that persistent, it would be of great concern to me given it would be expected to also inhibit germination of desirable grasses (ex. overseed).

@Bill

Personally, I want to see study results on the actual product in question, and preferably studies that have been peer reviewed.

ICT Bill
12-24-2008, 12:05 PM
References?

You keep mentioning this, however I have never seen anything about a required 2 year build-up. There is definitely a correlation between observed control and concentration, but with respect to time, the only thing I have seen is application timing with respect to germination .... (i.e. more control observed when application takes place just prior to germination).

Furthermore, if the herbicidal properties of CGM are indeed that persistent, it would be of great concern to me given it would be expected to also inhibit germination of desirable grasses (ex. overseed).

@Bill

Personally, I want to see study results on the actual product in question, and preferably studies that have been peer reviewed.

The Iowa state site has many studies on Liquid corn gluten meal and liquid wheat gluten, I have depended on their research for numbers and have not looked elsewhere.

The enzamatic process that is used breaks the CGM down into the active peptides that actually effect the growth of seeds, the peptides and di-peptides attack the root of the seed after germination through ulceration and basically using the root of the plant as a food source. No root no plant

efficacy is stated in the sudies as a 90 day window, this is most likely optimum. around this neck of the woods it would be applied in early spring as the soil gets above 50 degrees for several consecutive days, end of March beginning of April, applied again in June July time frame and then you are safe in the fall for over seeding in September time frame

I do believe I will move this subject to its own thread so that we can beat it up and probe the pro's and con's

Kiril
12-24-2008, 12:52 PM
The Iowa state site has many studies on Liquid corn gluten meal and liquid wheat gluten, I have depended on their research for numbers and have not looked elsewhere.

Not good enough. The research done on CGM and associated compounds only loosely applies to any product that was not directly tested. Do you buy a car based on what Consumer Reports states, or do you test drive it first?

efficacy is stated in the sudies as a 90 day window

Couple of things here. As with Smallaxe, I have not read anything about a 90 day window, so direct references please.

Second, what does efficacy have anything to do with compound persistence? Efficacy in this case addresses the extent of control exerted by CGM on the target plant, it has nothing to do with time.

Not trying to bust your balls here, but there is information being supplied on this forum of late without credible reference. I would appreciate if you, or anyone else, is going to make a claim about a product, you produce a credible reference, otherwise the information can be considered nothing more than conjecture and hearsay.

Smallaxe
12-24-2008, 02:45 PM
References?
You keep mentioning this, however I have never seen anything about a required 2 year build-up. There is definitely a correlation between observed control and concentration, but with respect to time, the only thing I have seen is application timing with respect to germination .... (i.e. more control observed when application takes place just prior to germination).

Furthermore, if the herbicidal properties of CGM are indeed that persistent, it would be of great concern to me given it would be expected to also inhibit germination of desirable grasses (ex. overseed)...

This has been my position from the beginning. Last year when CGM was all the rage on this forum. Everyone was saying 2 yrs to achieve 80% efficacy and that of course gave me the question.
When can we overseed?

No one ever answered but continued pushing it.
That was about the same time as calcium prevents dandelions, remember?

The problem became apparent to me then - that there was very little science involved in the CGM anecdotes.
As a result I never bothered researching it further.

NattyLawn
12-24-2008, 03:39 PM
This has been my position from the beginning. Last year when CGM was all the rage on this forum. Everyone was saying 2 yrs to achieve 80% efficacy and that of course gave me the question.
When can we overseed?

No one ever answered but continued pushing it.
That was about the same time as calcium prevents dandelions, remember?

The problem became apparent to me then - that there was very little science involved in the CGM anecdotes.
As a result I never bothered researching it further.

This says 60% year one....
http://www.soils.wisc.edu/extension/FAPM/proceedings/4C.stier.pdf

Abstract:
http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publication/publications.htm?SEQ_NO_115=205807

This article says CGM sucks:
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%20Chalker-Scott/Horticultural%20Myths_files/Myths/Corn%20gluten.pdf