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ProTouch Groundscapes
09-17-2008, 03:12 PM
hey guys, just wanted to grab some opinions from everybody. I am planning on purchasing a new pickup by the end of the year. I have considered all of the big three and have eliminated Chevy from the running. Its not that they are a bad truck, its just that i dont think it will work out for me.

What I want:
3/4 or 1 ton srw
crew cab
8' bed
diesel
4x4

those are the absolute must haves regardless of make, and that is a big reason i eliminated the chevy, i had a dealer tell me that it voids the warranty if you put a plow on a diesel crew cab long bed truck. and i would prefer a straight axle anyway.

I have been playing around with the ford's build a truck option and i really like the options they have. what i am worried about is the new 6.4 powerstroke and i would like to hear some feedback from current owners. Especially TXNSLighting since he has gone from dodge to GM to ford now.

08 Ford F250 Lariat 4x4
6.4L Powerstroke
8' bed
Crew Cab
18" rims
Leather interior

and let me clarify that this truck will see alot of highway miles. It will be a personal vehicle and used for long trips, camping trips with the quads etc... for at least 3 years before it will see a plow on it.

SimonCX
09-17-2008, 08:49 PM
I would look at the chevy again, I just picked up a new duramax and have a 05 powerstroke also. The chevy is getting alot better mpg then the ford so if your going to be doing alot of miles that will be a factor because the new 6.4 are suppose to suck for mpg. Also in my area chevy was about $10k cheaper then a same option ford. Both are nice so you really can't go wrong it just depends on price and what you need it for. This is the first I'm hearing that you can't put a plow on it mine is a extended cab long bed 2500hd and the dealer didn't have a problem putting a plow on it.

TXNSLighting
09-17-2008, 08:57 PM
Hey thats me! I havent got a ford yet. By i will have one by next year. IMO with the Ford truck, its a much better built truck. Every thing is sturdier, and the whole thing doesnt rattle when you hit bumps. I like my Duramax, but im not a fan of the rest of the truck. Just isnt built as solid. Dodge is a beast, but they have alota week points. But they do have the cummins! The 6.4 is a fine engine. The newer ones get pretty good fuel mileage. Alota people hear they dont, but single wheels do get good.

The one in my avatar is the one ill be getting (just in black) It will be my personal/work truck. Im 100% positive it is the right truck for me. I will also be looking for a 02 cummins as my play truck. Plannin on 800+ rear wheel hp.

But yeh the ford gets my vote! And the 6.7 cummins is getting terrible reviews...

ProTouch Groundscapes
09-17-2008, 09:32 PM
thanks for the replies, sorry txns, i saw your avatar pic and thought that was your new truck!

we currently have an 02 2500hd with the 6.0 vortec. the truck is good, but im not impressed with the quality of it. i know the newer ones have better interiors, but im not to crazy about the torsion bars. the dmax has the most power out of the three but imo is the least "solid" out of them.

we used to own a 94 dodge, and i really love the cummins and the fuel mileage, but pricing out a dodge put me above a ford. but then again i havent had a chance to go to dealers yet, just msrp's one the websites.

the truck is getting airbags under the rear end from the beginning just so that the springs wont be worn out by the time we start putting this thing to work.

im really concerned about the 6.4 reliability. i really dont want to have to work on that thing, the underhood space is horrible! do you really have to take the cab off to do stuff to this thing? i mean we do all our own maint/work on our trucks so this is a pretty big factor.

TXNSLighting
09-17-2008, 09:48 PM
Yeh you gotta pull the cab off to do major repairs. From what ive been seeing, they are quite reliable. I wont be keeping mine past 100k tho. I wish that was mine in the avatar!

SimonCX
09-17-2008, 11:02 PM
Underhood space is near nothing when I looked at the dealer, my sales rep that I get equip and rental from drives the new 6.4 and said he has about 20k on it and the intercooler blew at 15k. He had a 7.3 and he said it was better mpg then the 6.4 but the new one has more power and is way more comfortable. He was telling me that the mechnic's in the shop tried to do maint. on them the first time and told him to take it to ford next time because it was a nightmare, everything is so cramped together. I wish the 6.0 powerstrokes were in the 08's I love my 05 and the new diesel's are too quiet.

TXNSLighting
09-18-2008, 07:46 PM
They are way to quiet! But yeh they are so comfortable to ride in.

PLM-1
09-18-2008, 08:09 PM
Watch this! Over 25 hrs to change a freakin' fuel pump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWsGsunQwM8

TXNSLighting
09-18-2008, 10:36 PM
Watch this! Over 25 hrs to change a freakin' fuel pump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWsGsunQwM8

You liar, that only took 3:14... ha! Our techs here can have a cab off in minutes, that guys slow.

ProTouch Groundscapes
09-20-2008, 12:26 AM
i just saw the new style 2500hd 4x4 crew cab, long bed, diesel at my school the other day, and it looks soo low! i think id scrape the front end on a parking curb! what the hell am i supposed to do with the plow mount?

sven1277
09-20-2008, 12:38 AM
It's true that the gm trucks are lower to the ground and have less clearance. I prefer and run chevy only. Chevy is no longer using torsion bars in the suspension. Also, check with Ford on putting a plow on a crewcab longbed, as both chevy and dodge do not recommend it. In fact, there was a recent thread on plowsite about bent cabs, doors not closing and glass popping out of dodge's rear windows after using the crew cabs with plows

02DURAMAX
09-20-2008, 03:17 AM
Watch this! Over 25 hrs to change a freakin' fuel pump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWsGsunQwM8

Now That Is Shitty!!!

ProTouch Groundscapes
09-20-2008, 10:13 AM
what model year is the new suspension in effect? i have only seen torsion bar setups on the lots.

i saw a 2500hd goin down the road, reg cab long bed and it had on an 8' boss plow and it was raked pretty badly.

our truck has the t bars cranked to max factory setting and we use an 8' meyer striaght blade, and the front end dips less than an inch when we raise the plow.

for plowing, is it not recommended to plow with a short bed either if you get a crew cab?

nosparkplugs
09-20-2008, 11:32 AM
Ford diesels on average get the worst MPG, the Cummins & Duramax are the best engines for MPG; however any V8 diesel will always involve more labor to fix, any diesel shop mechanic will always come back to the in line 6 Cummins regardless of how they feel about Dodge.

The New Fords must be taken to a dealer to have any engine work done; because the cab must be lifted from the frame for any work. The seimens fuel injector pump is behind the engine, to acheive the quite sound of the new Powerstroke; however it is a major job, and the engine must be tore down to get to the pump. The intercooler is now plastic to save on space; however plastic does not conduct heat exchange as efficent as aluiminum to cool the air intake charge.

In stock form the Powerstroke will do fine, add a tuner you will blow the head gaskets right off, one of the first modifications on the Powerstroke is a new fire-ring head gasket & APR head studs to just hold a moderate towing tune.

Duramax can handle more boost, and fuel; however the Duramax has weak connecting rods & pistons that crack & melt under load.

The Cummins only weak link is the stock Carter (LP) lift pump; on the pre 2002 & older 24 valve 5.9L with the Bosch VP44 injector pumps. The VP44 is totally fuel lubricanted, and fuel cooled, when fuel pressure drops below 8PSI the VP44 is getting damaged; however a good diesel fuel lubricant is the long term solution to this (LP) problem if left in the stock form reports of over 200,000 miles with no VP44 damage.

The Cummins will out perform all other diesels even with a failing LP or VP44; however towards the end of the VP44 life it cannot reach full advance so you are stuck at 90mph limit while towing:laugh:

The Cummins has 45% less moving parts than any other diesel in it's class, soild iron head, strongest thickest connecting rods & pistons, simple I6 design way too much room for Twin turbos, for way less money. Can take the most advanced tunning & programmers with no engine modifications or damage compared to the other v8 diesel engines. Many diesel enthusiast own both Cummins and a V8 diesel, their daily drivers are the V8 Powerstrokes & Duramax's, but their Cummins is the power maker for the race track & towing big loads. The V8 diesels must be torn down & rebuild to compete with a stock Cummins

Dodge's new 4500 & 5500 trucks are in such demand their is a waiting list, I can say the Dodge Cummins will tow anything you have the balls to hook up to, could not say that about the Powerstroke it was a fussy diesel, and the V8 diesel must rev much higher to acheive what the Cummins does at 1,650 rpm. The Cummins never seems to be working regardless of what your towing,

If you don't like Dodge or Cummins get over it the, these are the facts, and when you hate Dodge & Cummins the truth will always hurt. This information is ALL over, and some choose to dismiss it others argue it, and others sell their Powerstrokes & Dmax's for a Cummins.

Marek
09-20-2008, 12:26 PM
You Dodge guys are like a little cult ! Yes the Cummins is a good motor but its not all that. Would you buy a truck from a company who is the worst financial postion of the big 3 ? There may not even be a dodge soon. As for the 4500- 5500 trucks having a waiting list, not around here. I have only seen 2 on the road.The couple that dealers did get in they cant sell. The new dodges have just as many motor problems as the others. Go to RV.Net and go to the towing forum , see how many guys have dumped thier 3500 dodges to go to the new 450s. Read what they say about how much more power the truck has and how much better built it is. Then go to www.thedieselstop.com and read about how few problems there are with the new 6.4 and there are a lot more of them on the road then thier are new dodges ! From what I have read you have had 1 7.3 and 1 Cummins , this makes you the all knowing athority on the new diesels?????? Lets face it each of the new trucks have thier positives and negatives, and who ever buys one will end up with a truck that will do just about anything you want it to do.

nosparkplugs
09-20-2008, 01:24 PM
You Dodge guys are like a little cult ! Yes the Cummins is a good motor but its not all that. Would you buy a truck from a company who is the worst financial postion of the big 3 ? There may not even be a dodge soon. As for the 4500- 5500 trucks having a waiting list, not around here. I have only seen 2 on the road.The couple that dealers did get in they cant sell. The new dodges have just as many motor problems as the others. Go to RV.Net and go to the towing forum , see how many guys have dumped thier 3500 dodges to go to the new 450s. Read what they say about how much more power the truck has and how much better built it is. Then go to www.thedieselstop.com and read about how few problems there are with the new 6.4 and there are a lot more of them on the road then thier are new dodges ! From what I have read you have had 1 7.3 and 1 Cummins , this makes you the all knowing athority on the new diesels?????? Lets face it each of the new trucks have thier positives and negatives, and who ever buys one will end up with a truck that will do just about anything you want it to do.


Born & raised in Flint, Michigan father was a GM engineer with 35 years of gasoline & diesel knowledge & development experience. Raised on GM diesels 6.2L & 6.5 Turbo, the Buick V8 gasburner conversion to diesel. Buy now means the authority on diesel's just have been running the for 10 years The Cummins 5.9L changed everything in the late 80's, from a engineering standpoint a turbocharged & intercooled straight inline 6 cylinder diesel in the stock form, from the factory unheard of. Ford or Chevrolet has been playing catch up every since; Gm & Ford have made great improvements; however if you have every sit down & talk with a GM or Ford Engineer, not a truck salesman, they have nothing but respect for Cummins???? the Ford F-650 the Cummins is the premium diesel option, whats up with that equation
My father died just when the Cummins 5.9L ISB was being released, and I will never forget one of our last conversations was how that Cummins was going to be a real diesel engine to recon with, and GM was going to be in trouble, their still behind. Funny thing I now longer live in Flint Michigan, never pursued a career with GM, their not the company founded over 45 years ago I wanted too; however dad did not approve me working for GM. Do not own a GM product now nor will I ever again, my loyalty to GM died with my Father.


The west coast, and east coast tend on average to have the highest diesel prices, and most stringent diesel emission law's; equal a weak diesel market which equal a saturated market of diesel trucks. In the South diesel fuel $3.86 can now be found cheaper than gasoline high as $4.56. Diesel truck sales are still high, Ford, Dodge, GM. The new 4500 & 5500 Dodge trucks are out of stock, cannot find them.

I had a business partner who accused me of being single minded or a loyal Dodge Cummins "cult" member, so I put aside my beliefs for a go with Ford, and it was bad, maybe only one truck, would you go back for more of a bad thing. I stand buy what I have experienced with GM & Ford diesels, sorry if it strike's a deep nerve, I stick with what works, Dodge . I tend to go against the grain on Lawsite anyway, thats fine I know what it costs to run a Cummins verses the others thats all I need.

Funny thing I still get more questions while filling up my Dodge, from Ford & GM guys wanting to learn more about the Cummins 5.9L than, when I ever owned a Ford or GM, some are sick & tired of V8 diesels. Is their mindset any different? Many have never seen a Cummins up close, and just blindly bought what their "buddies" were running over looking Dodge & Cummins. Most walk away with a new appreciation of the Cummins diesel. I work the hell out of my Dodge, and it brings home the bacon religiously, might not be the most refined,p retty truck to some, will not win any awards around here, but it has never let me down, and I have extra money in my pocket, never the case when I was running Ford & GM diesels, always nickle & dimeing me.

Lawn-Sharks
09-20-2008, 05:18 PM
Look at the power of the PSD!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTJLlNXX9Tw

TXNSLighting
09-20-2008, 05:27 PM
Born & raised in Flint, Michigan father was a GM engineer with 35 years of gasoline & diesel knowledge & development experience. Raised on GM diesels 6.2L & 6.5 Turbo, the Buick V8 gasburner conversion to diesel. Buy now means the authority on diesel's just have been running the for 10 years The Cummins 5.9L changed everything in the late 80's, from a engineering standpoint a turbocharged & intercooled straight inline 6 cylinder diesel in the stock form, from the factory unheard of. Ford or Chevrolet has been playing catch up every since; Gm & Ford have made great improvements; however if you have every sit down & talk with a GM or Ford Engineer, not a truck salesman, they have nothing but respect for Cummins???? the Ford F-650 the Cummins is the premium diesel option, whats up with that equation
My father died just when the Cummins 5.9L ISB was being released, and I will never forget one of our last conversations was how that Cummins was going to be a real diesel engine to recon with, and GM was going to be in trouble, their still behind. Funny thing I now longer live in Flint Michigan, never pursued a career with GM, their not the company founded over 45 years ago I wanted too; however dad did not approve me working for GM. Do not own a GM product now nor will I ever again, my loyalty to GM died with my Father.


The west coast, and east coast tend on average to have the highest diesel prices, and most stringent diesel emission law's; equal a weak diesel market which equal a saturated market of diesel trucks. In the South diesel fuel $3.86 can now be found cheaper than gasoline high as $4.56. Diesel truck sales are still high, Ford, Dodge, GM. The new 4500 & 5500 Dodge trucks are out of stock, cannot find them.

I had a business partner who accused me of being single minded or a loyal Dodge Cummins "cult" member, so I put aside my beliefs for a go with Ford, and it was bad, maybe only one truck, would you go back for more of a bad thing. I stand buy what I have experienced with GM & Ford diesels, sorry if it strike's a deep nerve, I stick with what works, Dodge . I tend to go against the grain on Lawsite anyway, thats fine I know what it costs to run a Cummins verses the others thats all I need.

Funny thing I still get more questions while filling up my Dodge, from Ford & GM guys wanting to learn more about the Cummins 5.9L than, when I ever owned a Ford or GM, some are sick & tired of V8 diesels. Is their mindset any different? Many have never seen a Cummins up close, and just blindly bought what their "buddies" were running over looking Dodge & Cummins. Most walk away with a new appreciation of the Cummins diesel. I work the hell out of my Dodge, and it brings home the bacon religiously, might not be the most refined,p retty truck to some, will not win any awards around here, but it has never let me down, and I have extra money in my pocket, never the case when I was running Ford & GM diesels, always nickle & dimeing me.

Look ive owned a cummins, powerstrokes, and now a Duramax. The cummins is fantastic. But so is the powerstroke and the duramax. And you cant keep saying that the cummins will always out haul and out run the v8 diesels. In stock form this duramax will out run the cummins. I know, i was there. They all three are very equal right now. The duramax has the advantage tho. LBZ and LMM that is.

nosparkplugs
09-20-2008, 06:31 PM
all three trucks produce 350hp and 650ftlbs of torque, at face value, more ammo for the V8 diesel guys; however read the real world comments posted. Their is magazine testing, and real world testing. Like how the GMC guys says he purchased his new Duramax only to passed buy the Dodge Cummins, and Ford Powerstroke daily. The constant overheating of the Duramax under real world towing, few magazines will test trucks long enough for their true colors to come out.
Oh, but don't post anything that might offend or question the pecking order of trucks on Lawnsite. The Duramax, and Powerstroke has went through how many engine modifications fixing problems, Ford & Internatinal suing each other over warranty claims, not happening with Cummins. I tow daily and talk with other V8 diesel guys some are happy with their V8 diesels others are unhappy & stuck with a note they cannot get out of without losing their arse. All three trucks are equal in HP/Torque, and reach the $56,000 sticker price. So it comes down to how much money you got, and brand loyalty all the rest is BS depending on the truck you run. when you get into the later model diesels the Cummins 5.9L continues to shine; because they have remained true throughout the years, their are some Cummins owners who have problems their all on Lawnsite how coincidental, as all the Cult Duramax & Powerstroke Owners I love being the underdog; because in the end many switch to the Dodge.




http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4230317.html?page=4

Gravel Rat
09-20-2008, 08:02 PM
Boy Nosparkplugs is so full of crap his teeth are as brown as dark chocolate :laugh:

Got news for you the new Sterling/Dodge trucks are not selling the one dealer in Vancouver is trying like h*ll to sell 4500-5500 selling them for 10 grand less than the F-450 and F-550 trucks.

The new 6.7 Cummins is a turd I guess you Dodge guys don't like to admit the 6.7 is a turd.

Sorry but Dodge trucks are not selling even with the 6.4 getting not so great fuel mileage there are alot of 08 Fords on the road.

You Dodge guys live in a little dream world :hammerhead:

If Dodge trucks were that good why does Dodge sell them so cheap and why haven't they ever out numbered Ford trucks in sales ?

I really laugh when Dodge brag about their trucks the wannabe big rigs yep we have a Cummins powered truck we can tow anything and drive a million miles :rolleyes:

SimonCX
09-20-2008, 08:37 PM
Personally I think all 3 have there good and bad and one is not better then the others in all area's. I have a powerstroke and a duramax, both are good trucks. I prefer the ford xl interior as a pure work truck but my chevy's lt trim is really nice as a daily driver and for estiamtes when I don't have to get in with muddy boots. Both engines are strong and have more then enough power and torque to pull almost anything that I need. I can't say anything about a cummins because I've never had one, a friend has one and loves it. If you look on ebay all 3 have trucks that have gone over 250k so if you take care of the motor and don't abuse the hell out of it, drive all 3 and pick the one you prefer.

Marek
09-20-2008, 11:32 PM
Name one thing that the dodge has going for it other than the cummins ? Just one thing to top Ford or chevy ? Welll ??????????????????????????????????????????????????? Oh thats right there is nothing ................................................................................

Milwaukee
09-21-2008, 04:33 AM
My Aunt's neighbor got F250 with 6.4L He is happy it get 16-20 mpg with turner. Never have problem with head gaskets.

He have old f250 he sold because it have high miles it was 7.3L it got average 14 mpg.

I saw Dodge dealer have 4 4500 trucks it been there almost 2 months.

I notice many new Ford Van on road now. I have saw lot new ford truck and Chevy on road now but Dodge I notice it few in city but most in country.


You know why Ford make hard work to fix engine in hood space? They try make mechanic gave up and tell them go to dealer. That what I think i will ask my Dad why they do that. He work in Dearborn at Ford plant in engine lab. He work on diesel now but been work on gas engine for 15 years. He say 6.4L is ok but he say in 2010 there are new diesel but no more Navistar that alway sue Ford due problem with 6.0L.

I can ask my Dad about 6.4L but sometime he won't tell due secret. Have you notice there are no pic of Ford's engine lab? They are hide. I have see in there but they say no camera allowed.

ProTouch Groundscapes
09-22-2008, 09:30 AM
for the 6.4L PSD what kind of mileage can i expect on the highway, not towing anything.

it will be a personal truck to several years before being used for work. and about 90% of the miles i will put on will be highway.

how about the 6.7L cummins?

i am willing to sacrifice the long bed for the short bed but i def want a crew cab, or quad cab if it was dodge. If dodge still had the 5.9L from the 07 models, i dont think id be having this problem right now.

TXNSLighting
09-22-2008, 12:24 PM
for the 6.4L PSD what kind of mileage can i expect on the highway, not towing anything.

it will be a personal truck to several years before being used for work. and about 90% of the miles i will put on will be highway.

how about the 6.7L cummins?

i am willing to sacrifice the long bed for the short bed but i def want a crew cab, or quad cab if it was dodge. If dodge still had the 5.9L from the 07 models, i dont think id be having this problem right now.

They dont seem so consistent. The majority of crew cab SB 4x4 owners say about 18 highway. This is after the first 5000 miles. The regen from the DPF's is what kills em. Dont even concider a 6.7...

ProTouch Groundscapes
09-22-2008, 05:02 PM
ive heard the 6.7's get pretty good mileage, is this not true?

TPLawnPro
09-22-2008, 05:21 PM
Hey thats me! I havent got a ford yet. By i will have one by next year. IMO with the Ford truck, its a much better built truck. Every thing is sturdier, and the whole thing doesnt rattle when you hit bumps...

Total agreement. The Ford is indeed a much better built truck and much sturdier.

Regarding the 'diesel engines' between Ford and GM, I definitely like the 6.4 PowerStroke, but I also wouldn't mind having the 6.6 Durajap under the hood either. The differences in fuel mileage between the two trucks is so miniscule that it's not even worth debating the issue. I say, "Go For The Better-built Workhorse!"

TXNSLighting
09-22-2008, 09:43 PM
ive heard the 6.7's get pretty good mileage, is this not true?

Not taking mileage...Theyre starting to get the legacy of the 03-04 6.0 powerstroke. I think some are decent on fuel mileage.

02DURAMAX
09-22-2008, 11:32 PM
Look at the power of the PSD!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTJLlNXX9Tw

any of the big three can move that!:hammerhead:

Lawn-Sharks
09-23-2008, 10:14 AM
any of the big three can move that!:hammerhead:

I know that, but do you see any of them doing it????......Besides the Ford!

Milwaukee
09-23-2008, 09:26 PM
I know that, but do you see any of them doing it????......Besides the Ford!

They must be afraid break their gm or dodge.

I am surpise this owner don't care and decide pull mobile house. I can't image when he try sell that truck and buyer say why transmission shift loose.

TXNSLighting
09-23-2008, 10:44 PM
They must be afraid break their gm or dodge.

I am surpise this owner don't care and decide pull mobile house. I can't image when he try sell that truck and buyer say why transmission shift loose.

Ha thats for sure!

mgray10
10-05-2008, 08:32 PM
Not that this has any bearing on the argument of GM v. Ford v. Dodge, but I find it ironic that Ford does not use a Navi/Int. engine in its 650.

For me, I like the idea of an inline six for a diesel engine and I find that the Cummins pulls a load better than the V8s. It is a much beefier engine, after all. Case in point, I routinely hauled a BobCat 435 excavator, T180 track loader, a grapple bucket, demo hammer, and some auger bits on a 24' dual wheel tandem deck over. Weight of all this was over 25k (someone else driving this got hit by DOT! His a$$ hurt big time) We pulled this almost two years with a 99 Dodge 3500 and a few times with a powerstroke, though never with a duramax. The powerstroke would pull the load, but it had to get up into the power band to be as comfortable as the cummins was around 1600. Now, don't get me wrong: neither of the trucks were comfortable pulling this, and neither was I; I am ashamed to admit this setup, but no sense crying over spilled milk at this point and I was just an employee, anyway.

Incidently, they now run that setup behind a Kodiak with an automatic Duramax. I am told, "it's the ****!"

TXNSLighting
10-05-2008, 08:39 PM
You can get the powerstroke in a 650. They actually pretty decent.

mgray10
10-05-2008, 08:53 PM
According to Ford around here, this is no longer offered. The last I heard of a powerstroke 650 was during the 7.3 era.

TXNSLighting
10-06-2008, 12:24 AM
The last one i saw was an 07. And one delivery truck here in the dfw area was an 05 with the 6.0. Theyre out there theres just not many.

mgray10
10-06-2008, 05:03 PM
Really?! I'll have to lay this on the Ford guy I have dealt with! *trucewhiteflag*

TXNSLighting
10-06-2008, 06:39 PM
Dang right!! ha!