Equip financing -Atlantic Financial?

[Guardian]

I noticed a "equipment finance" ad in Grounds Maintenance mag for a company called Atlantic Financial. I talked with a loan officer there and it seemed that they were high on interest rates. They kept pushing for a lease. Anyone deal with these guys?

I currently have a year left on a loan with Sheffield. PRO day is this week at my main dealer - I am considering a new loan.

[_GUNNER_8]

Guarding,
just curious why would you want to use them anyways, don't u have local bavk you do business with?i would think u would get lot better rate with them.

[lawnperfections]

If you can't buy it with cash then don't buy it.

[big james]

I am curious too ,why don't you use a local bank , I got some real bad stuff on my credit ..it;s a long story but my point is my local bank will still deal with me based on my record with them.and them alone.:confused:

[big james]

Originally posted by lawnperfections
If you can't buy it with cash then don't buy it.



What a chicken **** remark that is ,

[KirbysLawn]

Originally posted by big james




What a chicken **** remark that is ,

True...True....

[walker-talker]

It would be nice to pay cash for everything, but that has to be the worse business advice to give anyone. I am glad I don't think that way!

MATT

[lakegastonla]

Some people try to play the "big guy" a bit too much. I also find that it is usually these same people who owe a payment on EVERYTHING they own.

[Turfdude]

Talk to your dealer. They can usually get you no payments and no interest for 6 months. Just make sure you pay the entire amount off by then. Send payments as often as you can. This way you're using their $$ for free. I have done this now for the last 3-4 years and I have had very little interest to pay as all most everything was paid before the 6 month period.
BTW did this w/ z-rider, 200 gal spray tank, leaf vac, aerator and a few other larger equip purchases. Trimmers, blowers, and small stuff go on house account. Pay them off w/monthly statement.

Bob

[YLC1]

There may be some advantages by using a lease.A residual lease arrangement may have some tax advantages.On the residual lease you make monthly "lease" payments then at the end of the lease you purchase the equipment for $1.Talk to a tax advisor,this may work out for you.Richard

[lakegastonla]

Very good advice. sharp!

[cajuncutter]

I used Sheffield for my shortcut and had no problems with them. I figured so what if I pay a little higher intrest rate for the mower, I still get to write off every penny :D. I would have done it through a bank however my credit was not the best at the time and I really had no choice. As far as the pay cash comment goes..that was a little rude. I agree with you all on that statement. If you can afford to just pay cash for small things then that is great, I try to do that all the time but for larger equipment there is no way I would do that. You just may need that money for something else when you least expect it. ;)

[lawnperfections]

I can see that my "pay cash" comment was a little too blunt for the more "sensitive" members of the site(my bad), so I will expound on my comment. I would hope that part of your business plan would include setting aside money for emergencies and future equipment purchases, if its not, it should be. The crap advise that you are receiving from bigjames and others are the reason there are so many bankruptcies now. Bigjames's plan is obviously working for him, i.e. "I got some real bad stuff on my credit". You wouldn't take lawn care advise from someone with a dump for a yard so DON'T TAKE FINANCIAL ADVISE FROM BROKE PEOPLE. It was Dave Ramsey that said "A child does what feels good. An adult however, delays pleasure, formulates a plan and sticks to it. Using credit is a childish way to fix an adult situation." Buy used equipment if necessary, sell some stuff you don't use, have a garage sale, whatever. Formulate a plan (that doesn't include credit) and stick to it. If you fail to plan then plan to fail.

While I'm stirring the pot, I might as well answer some other comments:

KirbysLawn - I'm not even going to waste my time on you because you're probably in the same boat as bigjames. I bet that truck of yours isn't paid for.

Walker-Talker - If you truly believe your comment, I'm sure there will be an unemployment check or a bankruptcy in your future, or maybe a life long struggle to make ends meet because you can't borrow your way to wealth.

Lakegastonla - If you look at some of my other post you will see that I practice what I preach. I'm debt free except for my house (77k left on a 180k house in 3 years) and I just bought a Infiniti QX4 for 21K IN CASH. How did I do this, you may ask? I made a PLAN.

Turfdude - the Wall Street Journal reported this year that over 78% of the people that try that method fail to do so. These loan companies are not going to continue to do things that don't make them rich and you broke.

YLC1& cajuncutter - let's say you get a new mower on credit for 10k, yes you can write off that 10K but why would you send 10K to the bank to keep from sending $2800 to the government (based on the 28% tax bracket)

cajuncutter - you said " I would have done it through a bank however my credit was not the best at the time and I really had no choice. If you can afford to just pay cash for small things then that is great, I try to do that all the time but for larger equipment there is no way I would do that. You just may need that money for something else when you least expect it." Once again someone without a plan, or a plan to fail.

I'm sure I won't get much support from these comments sooooooooo. Let the piling on begin.

[cajuncutter]

Yeah I had no plans.I had no plan to almost die and get put in the hospital only to accumulate over 60 grand worht of bills. Also about the write off...your going to pay it somewhere .might as well be in equip. AND MAN this is killing me...you got gold rims and dice on the rear view mirror on that dope ride:p :p :p :p ..A Infiniti QX4 ...your high rollen aint ya hahahahaha:D :blob3:

[lawnperfections]

I guess you should have planned on some Health Insurance.

[cajuncutter]

We all live and learn. $%*! happens..what can ya say ..I no longer sweat it..it's all in the past :D. All is well now.

[lawnperfections]

I agree, so lets make sure this guy learns what we have lived through, so he doesn't make the same mistakes. I thought that is one of the reasons for this site.

[accuratelawn]

Borrowing money is part of life and doing business. But,if you don't have a plan, you will end up in trouble. Borrow to get started and budget for future purchases.
If you buy a new ZTR with no payments for 6 months you should be able to just about pay it off by the end of that period. (BTW its not using their money, the interest is loaded back in to the purchase price)
Once you own that new mower you should have enough $$ budgeted to purchase a replacement. Say you will use the mower for three years, save $2,500 per year in your new equipment fund (little over $200 per month).
Yes all my equipment is paid for, the truck is not.

[MOW ED]

Thats the problem with a forum like this. If we were all sitting in a room together I think the conversation would be a little different.

Everyone has their own situation in life, personal as well as financial. I agree that it would be the best idea to pay something off in cash and it would be even nicer to plan for it. Not everyone can do that all the time.
There does have to be some balance and accountability however and if you can plan to pay something off in 6 months with no interest then thats good. Ya had a plan and stuck to it. You made money while using someone elses and you didn't have to pay interest.
Some people overborrow, thats a fact. The repo companies love them. I don't think anyone goes out to buy something and PLAN to have it reposessed.
We are all here to learn what works and what doesn't. What you have to remember is that we are a big group of quite diverse backgrounds and opinions. Its just that an opinion. This was mine. Good Luck.

[lawnperfections]

Your right credit is normal. The average American has over $8000 on a number of card and that doesn't include the other money pit "cars". Yes, that's normal. Who wants to be normal, I would rather be weird.

Weird is:

Being debt free

Having 3 to 6 months of expenses in an emergency fund

Investing in retirement accounts - 5% of income in company match 403b and 3k a year in a Roth IRA for me and the same for my wife

Planning for your childs future - Educational IRA's, UTTMA's or a Mutual fund so if they don't want to go to college they have money to pursue their passion - like maybe a Lawn Business

Paying of the house in 5 to 7 years and not 15 or 30

Most of all weird is "Living on LESS than you make" so that you can do all of the above.

[big james]

I said I had some bad stuff on my credit ,I never said I was Broke ,and I am A Homeowner ,I do not rent ,most of my eqipment is paid for ,I also run two damn near new 18 -wheelers out of Oak Hill Fla. ,so you ought to start doing a little more research begore you start running that Ghetto mouth of yours ,and by the way if you are doing so good why don't you speed that slow ass web-site of yoursd up ,you can literally watch the grass grow waiting for that slow **** ******to load :D

WATCH THE LANGUAGE. You want to use that language, use it somewhere else
Jodi

[landscaper3]

We lease all our equipment with a 10% buy out at end of lease. We get 100% deduction on ALL!!! payments at tax time versus bank loans are done with depreciation values instead of 100% tax deductions which really helps us business owners. Cash no way takes away from cash on hand if needed. We found over the years our leases are the only way to go in our situation. 4 mower leases, 3 new truck leases, 2 sander leases. We use Telmark in New York. www.telmark.com
You see having the 100% tax deduction is the smart way to go for its taking 100% off your income rather then bank loans at around 40% and up. We also like them for we have a long relationship with them we can miss 2-3 payments in winter if we wish but we never do. (On purchases below 2-3k we may pay cash but our mowers go for 10k and trucks a 20 to 30k cash would be stupid putting your cash on hand on these purchases. If its a inexpensive purchase yes cash but larger ones is the most ludicrist thing I can imagine. What if you have repairs on business equipment? Home? others buy tying up you purchases in cash is yeah nice dept free but these and worst problems occur and with keeping cash in bank gaining principle and intrest and leaseing your equipment is a long term thought and cash is short term. Yeah I see the points of cash but this day and age you need lots of money in the bank for these surprises (unless solo operater) we have up to 10 employees in peek season and cash is not an option!

[lawnperfections]

Big James - I sensing some hostilities, are those trucks paid for? I would want you to over extended yourself then have something happen and you end up with more bad credit. You don't have to prove yourself to me. I'm just a guy on a computer with an opinion. Yes, the site is slow but slow or not it was free and the Internet deduction is the same 100%.

I don't get the ghetto mouth comment, nor do I know what "begore" or "yourd" is?

Landscaper3 - you can file a section 179 for any equipment and write off 100% up to 20K a year

[big james]

Originally posted by lawnperfections
Big James - I sensing some hostilities, are those trucks paid for? I would want you to over extended yourself then have something happen and you end up with more bad credit. You don't have to prove yourself to me. I'm just a guy on a computer with an opinion. Yes, the site is slow but slow or not it was free and the Internet deduction is the same 100%.

I don't get the ghetto mouth comment, nor do I know what "begore" or "yourd" is?

Landscaper3 - you can file a section 179 for any equipment and write off 100% up to 20K a year


those are called typing errors, Genuis ! and of course those trucks aren't paid for !

**** *** **** **** **** ** ******

[lawnperfections]

All that debt, is like a money on your back. Its making you a very angry man, not to mention it will prevent you from retiring early and comfortable.

[landscaper3]

Sorry unless its a AG lease its not 100% write off!(To my knoledge. im not a legal accountant but Its my opinion its not) Our equipment is way higher then 20k. We have had HR block and others do our takes because of the size of our company its not an option, but we have found a great accountant that is in agreement that our leases our the smartest way to purchase and 179 forms arent 100% deductable in our income form.

[big james]

having all that to contend with keeps me occupied ,and being occupied keeps me happy ,I'm not worried about retirement,I don't plan on retiring , and by the way the bad stuff on my credit is from a previous marriage ,she had a better lawyer than me ,it's that simple , I enjoy every minute of every day ,just because I will stand my ground and back talk you don't make me an unhappy person , :D o.k. Genius ,I am thru with you know ,bye

[big james]

Originally posted by lawnperfections
All that debt, is like a money on your back. Its making you a very angry man, not to mention it will prevent you from retiring early and comfortable.

Ithink you mean Monkey on my back not money? ,you type worse than me Genius:rolleyes:

[HOMER]

Some plan ahead.........some play catch-up. I lease my mowers from Telmark as well.............never skipped a payment though......can I do that??????????????????? Maybe I'll call them and see since I'm not a financial wizard, just an ordinary American doin' his best to get by.

Cuz in Jacksonville: I'm glad your debt free, really am. You could possibly be a big help to some folks too with all that knowledge. A lot is said about a person by the words that he writes, they don't even have to spoken or face to face. I got a feeling your not an easy guy to get along with and wonder how you treat those you deal with on a regular basis.

Dying broke with many friends is better than dying rich with nobody at your funeral.

In the end we all meet the same fate don't we? We're all equally dead.

Have a good life.

[cajuncutter]

Well said Homer, well said:D:angel:

[big james]

Very well put Homer ,very well put ,Sometimes I rub people the wrong way but I'll give the shirt off my back to a friend and I got a lot of them!Nobody has to like everbody elses opinion but when you state your opinion about any preconcieved notions about me ,I will respond in kind !And if Lawn Imperfections can't take the heat then he needs to get out of the kitchen or florida whichever I don't care.I been wrong before and I know I will be wrong again but Iam man enough to admit it.:D

[1MajorTom]

I come home and this thread has been repeatedly reported.
I do not have time nor the desire to sit here right now and edit out personal attacks, so I will close this thread until I feel like wading thru this and reading this.

We aren't all going to agree, but I would appreciate it if we could disagree in a more professional manner without name calling.

[1MajorTom]

Ok this thread is now open.
Please, whether we agree or not with Luke's viewpoint that carrying debt is bad , let's just state how we feel without using personal names/insults to try and get our point acrossed.

Thank you.

[lbmd1]

I posted this over at the business but now that this thread was reopened, I wanted to post it here.
Lawnperfections, why do you feel you with having 30 accounts, a full time other job, and a wife that works, gives you the expertise to criticize full time LCO's on this site for their financial choices. Do you have a CPA or Corporate lawyer like many of us? How about liability insurance? 4-10 employees to pay each week? I'm sure many of us could easily afford to pay cash for a 36" walk behind. Ridiculing Big James and others on their past credit problems shows what a big man you are. How about you, born with a silver spoon? You don't think any of us lawn dawgs have what you have?, think again. I'm sure their are many!!!! whom have more. Who cares? Many of us have grown because of borrowing credit, but have also gained ASSETS!!!!!! What's your 30 account business worth? I just hit the 1/4 million mark in sales in my lawn biz, with only a small fraction going to installs. What do you think mine is worth? It gets fun when the accountant tells you to go out and buy 2 new riders before the end of the year. What does your CPA tell you? When you get off that porch and want to run with us big dawgs, then maybe we'll listen. You're comment on "using credit is a childish way to fix an adult situation is laughable. Do you know who John Allin is? Do you think he paid cash for his snow removal equipment for the Winter Olympics? What about Toro, Exmark, John Deere, IBM, Ford etc... They all got that big by paying cash? Your assumption to Bruces about losing a contract shows your inexperience again. Not many here go out and use credit on a 10k machine for one account. We may not be an Sr Analyst like you, but some of us know our numbers and trust our professionals that we surround ourselves with. Many of us have had our ups and downs with our past. Wait till you get divorced, have to move out and pay not only the mortgage there, but an apartment for yourself child support, lose your job (don't think it can't happen) You'll have that credit card maxed out within a month trying to pay for all of that with those 30 accounts. By the way, most of us here have at least 4-5 months of income put aside, it's called winter!

[Guardian]

Well, I almost feel bad for starting a "problem" thread.

For me, its simple - 2 years ago, I could not have started my business without credit. I sold a Honda accord for $3500 and bought everything but the mower. Sheffields helped with a loan for $5200 (36 mo) for a demo eXmark ztr.

Maybe I could've bought an old wb for some of that cash, but I chose to start with euipment that could handle almost anything. My approach to this business was to appear to be a strong company right from the start. (I signed a 180 unit condo just in my 3rd month)

I have absolulty NO regrets for the path I chose. I believe I know what I am doing when I pursue other finance opportunities. I was only looking to find what others thought of the finance co's that make themselves available to LCO's

oh..and I agree, bank rates are much better when you can get them. Whoever said that banks look primarily at your record with them -when considering lending ---My bank told me last year that they'd like to see me establish more credit elsewhere. (I have 3 loans with them -all in perfect standing) GO figure that one.

[lawnperfections]

Gentleman, I love a spirted discussion. That is what is great about the country we live in, I'm entitled to my opinion and am free to speak it. I knew I would not get much support with my way of thinking because unfortunately debit is a way of life for most people and anyone who goes against that grain will get criticized. So I am going to leave this alone and we will just agree to disagree.

But before I go I would like to dispel some assumptions:

lbmd1 - I have now capped out at 40(my self imposed cap) accounts, all within my own neighborhood of 225 homes. Because of planning and living a debt free life my wife was able to quit work as planned and stay home when our first child was born 6 weeks ago. My brother is a CPA. Big James started the pissing contest but you right I made some assumptions that I shouldn't have, for that I apologize. Silver Spoon - hardly. When my family moved here from New York in 75 we were on welfare for 6 months. Our family of 7 lived in a cottage on my grandparents property for 8 months until we found a house, even then I shared a room with my 2 older brothers. My parents had there own ideas on work and education. My fathers " Find a good place to work, stay there and bust your a$$ and good things will happen" that has worked very well for him. My mother worked at Hardees until she was able to go to nursing school where she graduated with honors and went to work for Memorial Hospital. She worked at Memorial for 17 years in many nursing capacities until she decided to go back to school to become a pharmacist. For two years she drove back and forth to University of Florida (1 ½ hours each way) every weekday and worked 12 hour shifts on the weekend to get her Pharm.D, and somehow never missed a one of our activities. I decided to do a combination of the 2. I had a full time service while I went to school then went to part-time after I got married and got this job that I busted my a$$ to get. This year my 40 accounts will be worth about 50k and that only working 3 days. I don't know about IBM, Ford or Toro... but I do know that Microsoft and GE and debit free companies. Your comment about bruces - that was his example not mine. I'm happy married to my high school sweetheart, but thanks for your concern.

Big James - I think that if you were to ask any of my customers, co-workers and numerous friends they would tell you that I am one of the nicest guys they have ever met and that I would bend over backwards to help them in any way.

[turfman59]

Jumped into this just for fun, YOu keep listening to dave ramsey and you be able to call in and report your debt free status someday, your still along way from debt free with that house payment you still owe 70k on. Most every growing business has some sort of debt load. thats why people sell shares in there company. Those companies that are managed well pay a dividend to their shareholders, its in their business plan also, some shareholders end up getting the crappy end of the stick come the 3rd or 4th quarter of no dividends or wall street devalues their company because of fear of poor mangement, or slow or sluggish sales.
MY POINT is the Bank is there to make loans based on speculation of small amounts of risk, Some guy owing 20k on landscape equipment is minimal risk for anyone let alone a Bank.

the LCO's on this site are doing exactly what any New Growth company does... go to a lender. Dave Ramsey is just a guy like Paul Harvey an entertainer giving out common sense advice that my grandfather use to give to me 30 years ago as he was opening up his dividend envelopes Remember Debt isnt a Bad word as long as there is a solid investment made with residual value and the Most important thing is the Big 3 R O I RETURN ON INVESTMENT... OH BY THE WAY I just sent in my last house payment last month. as for debt i guess you could say there isnt any to coin a phrase from DAVE,,,, Doin better than I deserve
SSSSSSSSEEEEEE ya

[KirbysLawn]

Luke,

Thanks for your concern about our sensitivity, you are truly too kind. Your blanket statement was a smart a** comment and you know it. Any smart business with expectations of future growth builds credit for his/her company. If someone starts a company and pay's cash for everything they develop no credit history; with no credit history future expansion, building, or major purchases would be much more difficult to obtain.

So, while I agree that being debt free is the way we should go, having some credit history is a wise choice. And FYI no my truck is not paid for, all of my mowers, and equipment are...happy?

[LoneStarLawn]

I have to follow Ray on this one.

Business credit and personal credit I feel take different steps.

Now with personal credit you shouldn't buy anything that you do not need or can not afford. In business you have to borrow to move forward with your business. You need the capital to expand your business because you may be at your limits. Some businesses need to expand extremely quickly and the only way to do that is to use some kind of credit or borrowing.