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View Full Version : Organic Hydroseeding/hydrofeeding


Prolawnservice
09-19-2008, 09:07 PM
So far almost all the info I've seen about doing this has the product Stewards(Eric) was selling attached to it. Does anyone know if you can get simular or better results without using his very cost prohibitive product?

treegal1
09-19-2008, 11:07 PM
try some worm compost and alfalfa meal, with a wood pulp or paper fiber..........

ICT Bill
09-20-2008, 01:25 PM
Prime or pregerminate the seed in a 30 gallon trash can with compost tea, if you want to kick it up a notch add some mycorrhizae and trichoderma

Use the seed as a delivery system of beneficials into the soil

Add 1 yard of screened compost 1/8 inch minus to the mix per 650 gallons of water

phasthound
09-20-2008, 05:24 PM
Jeez, where's a guy going to find worm castings in the wilds of NJ? :rolleyes:

growingdeeprootsorganicly
09-20-2008, 10:25 PM
i know some where too:dancing:

great biology too

phasthound
09-21-2008, 08:27 AM
i know some where too:dancing:

great biology too

Excellent. Worm poo rules!!

DUSTYCEDAR
09-21-2008, 01:08 PM
Worm me baby

muddstopper
09-23-2008, 07:32 PM
So far almost all the info I've seen about doing this has the product Stewards(Eric) was selling attached to it. Does anyone know if you can get simular or better results without using his very cost prohibitive product?

Pro, Rick Hardy, or WhySod as he his internetly known, is the first hydroseeder that I know of to use the products Erik sells in a hydroseeder. I dont know if he is the very first, but certainly a pioneer in using the product in that manner. He liked the product so well that he became a distributor. He is also the first person I know of to use the term hydrofeeding. Again I dont know if he is the first, but I am pretty sure Melendrez was asking him how he used the product in this manner before he started promoting hydrofeeding. You can try to contact him thru his website at Whysod.com, (I would give you his phone number, but I dont have his permisson to do so), to get more information on the actual hydrofeeding process. Tell him I sent you. I know he has more hands on experience using hydroseeders and Eriks product line than Erik does, and he was using the product way before Erik became a distributor. (Hell, I used it in a hydroseeder before Erik even owned one). Rick is no longer a licensed distributor with that organic company, but he still uses the product. Its a very good product, but very expensive if you follow their protocols.

A few other places to look would be MesaVerda (sp) humates, and Umates.com. Also the ICT seems to be doing me a pretty good job, altho I feel it needs just a little help, hint, hint, call MesaVerda or Umates:laugh:

I would also look for a reprint of a Article by Dr. Michael Karr (googel his name)concerning the use of Humates. You might be suprised as to how little is actually needed to provide a benefit.

Prolawnservice
09-23-2008, 08:53 PM
Thanks everyone, Mud while I have your attention, what would be the best way to stabilize a 3:1 slope with a jet machine(tomorrow before it rains on Thursday), regular or organic.

ICT Bill
09-23-2008, 10:11 PM
A few other places to look would be MesaVerda (sp) humates, and Umates.com. Also the ICT seems to be doing me a pretty good job, altho I feel it needs just a little help, hint, hint, call MesaVerda or Umates:laugh:

I would also look for a reprint of a Article by Dr. Michael Karr (googel his name)concerning the use of Humates. You might be suprised as to how little is actually needed to provide a benefit.

Hey Mudd, the 1-2-3 Hydro-seed product is just biology (no NPK or micronutrients) and probably could use a little nutrient help from humates. Our latest batch (not bottled yet) we have stepped up the biology count by 100X


You are right about spoon feeding humates, a little goes a long way, too much actually gets the opposite results that you want, it starts sequestering nutrients

DUSTYCEDAR
09-24-2008, 09:02 AM
more go go

muddstopper
09-24-2008, 05:04 PM
Thanks everyone, Mud while I have your attention, what would be the best way to stabilize a 3:1 slope with a jet machine(tomorrow before it rains on Thursday), regular or organic.

Pro, I may be a little late to help you since you said you needed to know before today.

You can by BFM mulches specificly for jet machine use. Personally, not knowing what you are using for a mulch, I would suggest useing the jetspray pourable mulch and adding a Pam Tackifier at the 10lb per acre rate. Apply from at least two different directions to insure complete coverage. You can also mix in some of profiles poly fibers. I dont like the tackifierIII for slopes, it just doesnt seem to perform as well as the PAMS. I use Watersorb brand of pam, its as good as the sticky slicky, bluegoo, and most any other pam on the market, at least in my opinion. Cheaper too.

A surefire way to insure zero erosion on a slope is to use one of the TRM's, turf reinforement mat, products on the market. These products are made using polyplastics that are UV resistant and designed to act as a mulch blanket, similar to excelsior mats, but not degrade. They are simple to install, simply roll out over smooth surfaces and staple to the ground. You plant the grass, no mulch needed, before installing the mats. Cost around $220 for a 7 1/2X120ft roll. These mats will standup to direct water runoff with zero movement. Google NAGreen.com and you should find some spec sheets. Envirotech also makes a very similar mat as does Western Excelsior. The Soil Erosion and hydroseeding magazine had a good article on these products this past month. You can get this magazine free by becomeing a member of the IAHP.

I will be using these mats to replace ripraff rock in ditches in the next week or two. We will be completely removeing the rock, slopeing the ditches, seeding and then installing the mat material. I can see this material replaceing the use of riffraff in most instances and the states are already moving toward this product. It has more eye appeal, makes mowing easier, and stops erosion in its tracks, for about the same cost as the rock.

Prolawnservice
09-24-2008, 07:43 PM
Too late, thanks though, I used the central fiber mulch at 1 bale per thousand, floc loc PAM and the tack that bowie man sells at double the rate, I blasted it into the soil pretty good. Well, nor'easter on its way we'll see what happens.

ICT Bill
09-24-2008, 07:53 PM
Pro, are those your silt fences and super silt fences? do want inexpensive to do and great margins, and BTW a bunch in front of you already got the EPA stuff done

go here, they have the complete spec's NO MORE SILT FENCES
http://www.groundscapesexpress.com/filtermittspec.htm

If you are doing projects around water this is the stuff, that is what it is made for. Turtles, gecko's, etc can walk over them with no issue

And they are better than silt fences by miles and miles

Prolawnservice
09-24-2008, 08:09 PM
Not mine:waving:, I was just subbed to shoot it, ground prep and whatever they are constructing was another company:dizzy:.

Prolawnservice
09-24-2008, 08:13 PM
Bill,
This is south jersey, pine barrens, they aren't exactly ahead of the curve.

muddstopper
09-24-2008, 08:28 PM
http://www.ntpep.org/ProfileCenter/Uploads/051-NTPEP-ErosionTech-ETTPP10-Aug2007.pdf

You could of used this and not needed the silt fence, or hydromulch or tack.

JDUtah
09-24-2008, 08:32 PM
lol prolawn, welcome to the risky area of posting picures of your work in the organic forum.. :)

phasthound
09-24-2008, 08:39 PM
Bill,
This is south jersey, pine barrens, they aren't exactly ahead of the curve.

Hey, it's officially the Pinelands! You know, like the Meadowlands used to be swamps. :)

Prolawnservice
09-24-2008, 08:41 PM
Looks like some good stuff, Like I said, I was just hired to shoot it, I'll talk them into the mats if what I sprayed washes out. I was just doing what was spec by the architect. They called on Fri. They had the soil done 90% last night and I sprayed 90% of it today(they didn't even finish). No mention of using a mat as an option, I could have hydroseeded or raked in seed and blow straw. I raked in half the amount seed and hydroseeded the other half.

Prolawnservice
09-24-2008, 08:46 PM
lol prolawn, welcome to the risky area of posting picures of your work in the organic forum.. :)

I'm not offended, I bought a hydroseeder to spray compost and compost tea. I'm not a hydroseeder but, for some reason since I bought it, people keep asking me to hydroseed stuff. I'm sure there is a learning curve, and I'm just grateful I have this forum and the helpful intelligent people that frequent it as a resource.

DUSTYCEDAR
09-24-2008, 08:50 PM
I LIKE IT nice work

Prolawnservice
09-24-2008, 08:50 PM
Hey, it's officially the Pinelands! You know, like the Meadowlands used to be swamps. :)

My point was, there are no geckos trying to walk across the silt fence(not mine) unless they escaped from someones aquarium.

treegal1
09-24-2008, 11:01 PM
nice job PRO, looks good! did it wash at all, did ya get any rain??? that black fence is the standard, some times you can monkey around with some sock or mulch net, but 9 out of 10 times the inspector is some old fart that is set in his ways and just wants it done the same old same old, what can ya do.LOLOL

have ya spayed any tea out of the hydro unit yet???, that's not a sprayer this is a sprayer, he he he, just tell your helper to stay behind you.LOLOL

Prolawnservice
09-25-2008, 07:45 AM
Thanks, rain didn't start yet just real windy so far, we'll see tomorrow. It was pretty windy yesterday when I sprayed it as well, I was covered almost as good as the ground. I think if I hadn't showered last night I may have sprouted some seed too!:D
I sprayed one batch of semi OK tea, hopefully this job will pay for the new brewer tank and I can make better tea. I wouldn't say I have the tea thing down yet, but I have a better idea of what good and bad(brown water:wall) tea looks like under the scope, and the theory behind selecting the right foods and brewing good tea.

ICT Bill
09-25-2008, 08:12 AM
lol prolawn, welcome to the risky area of posting picures of your work in the organic forum.. :)

HUH??? :confused:

treegal1
09-25-2008, 08:30 AM
new tank??? got to see this! sounds fun, is it a cone tank????maybe a pic???

you know that's how it all starts, got one tank next ya need another, then ya out grow that tank, need a dark one, like the ones ya seen at an auction, friend give you one of his old tanks, next thing ya know its a tank farm gone wild.LOLOL

DUSTYCEDAR
09-25-2008, 08:32 AM
that is what happend here i have them everywhere
and i cant pass a tank and not want it.
i have a problem:confused:
help me

treegal1
09-25-2008, 08:40 AM
I gave away a 250 gallon brewer 3 months ago, yeah its back and the guy wants a 550 now, eh at least i got my first diy brewer back.LOLOL

Prolawnservice
09-25-2008, 11:38 AM
wana give it away again, for a while? My problem is air, not enough of it, I'm going to build a replica of the dirt simple brewer I saw at Dr. I's class. I currently have a gast 2203 I think, Matt said to get the 85 gallon cone bottom to use with that pump. I want to build a 300 gallon but I think I should get one to work right first.

Prolawnservice
09-25-2008, 11:54 AM
have ya spayed any tea out of the hydro unit yet???, that's not a sprayer this is a sprayer, he he he, just tell your helper to stay behind you.LOLOL

300 gallons in about 15 mins you ain't kidding, when I had the tea in it I sprayed out about half of it on my 1000sq ft front yard before I realized it was going that fast. It does have some power, sprayed to the top of my 35' American holly, no problem. Now I just need to get this organic hydroseeding/hydrofeeding thing figured out.

treegal1
09-25-2008, 12:11 PM
double ROFL, :laugh::laugh::laugh:

ICT Bill
09-25-2008, 02:37 PM
Prolawn, go here http://www.aquaticeco.com/ and look up blowers, sweet water makes some good ones
They will be overkill but you can always use on other rigs when you move up to the 1000 gallon model

growingdeeprootsorganicly
09-25-2008, 05:25 PM
pro,

id say buy the biggest air pump u can afford, you can never have enough air, especially in the summer, vent off air thats not needed till you need it,

a friend of mine suggested a Gast brand regenerative blower, they are cheaper and are the company that makes sweet water pumps

DUSTYCEDAR
09-25-2008, 05:37 PM
thanks for the blower link

treegal1
09-25-2008, 05:53 PM
use the high pressure ones!!!!!yes bigger is better, we just piggybacked 2, 5 hp blowers for a custom brewer

Stewards of the Land
09-25-2008, 08:48 PM
Pro, Rick Hardy, or WhySod as he his internetly known, is the first hydroseeder that I know of to use the products Erik sells in a hydroseeder. I dont know if he is the very first, but certainly a pioneer in using the product in that manner. He liked the product so well that he became a distributor. He is also the first person I know of to use the term hydrofeeding. Again I dont know if he is the first, but I am pretty sure Melendrez was asking him how he used the product in this manner before he started promoting hydrofeeding. You can try to contact him thru his website at Whysod.com, (I would give you his phone number, but I dont have his permisson to do so), to get more information on the actual hydrofeeding process. Tell him I sent you. I know he has more hands on experience using hydroseeders and Eriks product line than Erik does, and he was using the product way before Erik became a distributor. (Hell, I used it in a hydroseeder before Erik even owned one). Rick is no longer a licensed distributor with that organic company, but he still uses the product. Its a very good product, but very expensive if you follow their protocols.

A few other places to look would be MesaVerda (sp) humates, and Umates.com. Also the ICT seems to be doing me a pretty good job, altho I feel it needs just a little help, hint, hint, call MesaVerda or Umates:laugh:

I would also look for a reprint of a Article by Dr. Michael Karr (googel his name)concerning the use of Humates. You might be suprised as to how little is actually needed to provide a benefit.

I must apologize for my colleague as most of his statements and understanding of the facts are inaccurate.

Hydrofeeding and Hydroseeding with the technology was done by Dr. Melendrez and his associate T.Worth back in the mid 90's. It was then when they discovered and implemented the technology into the Hydroseeding application/process. It was then sold and marketed into the Hydroseeding market towards the late 90's where Dr. Melendrez continued to gather information from these contractors to continue R & D and keep the technology universal and usable within the industry. Dr. Melendrez has had Hydroseeding clients using the said technology through both applications many years before Mr. Hardy or myself were ever involved.

Yes Mr. Hardy has and continues to use the technology with great success and has been seeding for many years longer then myself. However the correction needs to be made that I have been involved with the technology a number of years before Mr. Hardy became a supplier, not that it really matters or has any relevancy. With this said I have been extensively educated in the technology and have been trained by someone who has been in the Hydroseeding industry for 30+ years, along with my own hands on experience so by no means am I ignorant nor naive on the technology itself or about how to incorporate the technology into any program!

The technology is not as expensive as implied. It is a program, like many others, that with continued usage increases benefits and in time decreases expenses as has been seen by client after client.

As to Dr. Karr, whom has twice been a paid employee of Dr. Melendrez, it has been known for a very very long time that he is an advocate of Humates. Heck he even did a presentation on Humates about 10 years ago for Acres USA. And this year Dr. Melendrez has been personally invited by Acres USA to speak at this years convention.

Thank you,

~Erik

Prolawnservice
09-25-2008, 09:17 PM
OK I'll bite, Why couldn't you use a different source for humates like Turf pro recommended by soil food web for example and at a third of the price of your product? What if you brewed real compost tea, added food for the biology, some humate, seed and hydro-mulch or compost, why wouldn't you get the same results or better?

treegal1
09-25-2008, 09:54 PM
pro do you need me to ship you some lake mud and worm casts, humic substances are natural and easy to find, and dont cost a lot!!!!think brown swamp water.LOLOL

Prolawnservice
09-25-2008, 10:05 PM
Sure, I'll take all the worm castings you want to send!!

How legal is it to suck water out of a local lake or stream, where would I look or ask to find out?

treegal1
09-25-2008, 10:10 PM
the nj dep maybe, our private lake is all mine, I take from it as needed, I use a sewer pump to get some of the most rich dark mud I have ever seen, its like all the good dirt that ran down onto the water, and OMG what a selection of nematodes!!!!

I will shoot you my site for the worm casts.

DUSTYCEDAR
09-26-2008, 08:35 AM
come over to pa we pay people to dredge ponds

DUSTYCEDAR
09-26-2008, 07:20 PM
played in the rain today with the hydroseeder

muddstopper
09-26-2008, 08:30 PM
Sure, I'll take all the worm castings you want to send!!

How legal is it to suck water out of a local lake or stream, where would I look or ask to find out?


Pro, Every state is a little different on sucking water from lakes and streams. I have checked a few states by going to the Soil and Water Quality website of those particular states. What I have found so far, and this might not hold true in every state, is that as long as you are not trespassing on sombodies property, obstructing the flow of a stream, and have a proper backflow device, you can draw 100,000 gals a day, up to 1million gals a year, from any stream or water source, without needing a permit. In some states it is legal to stop in the highway, with proper traffic control, and drop your hose into a creek in order to obtain water. I would be sure to check your state regs, before taking my word as gospel, like I said, I havent checked every state. Cities can also place more restrictions, but I would bet that if you went to the cities, most wouldnt know what the restrictions where, or even if there was one, and most likely would tell you you couldnt. I have ran into that more than once, they dont know so you aint supposed to.

DUSTYCEDAR
10-28-2008, 06:10 PM
i would your try it