PDA

View Full Version : Scag Turf Tiger advice needed!


Marshbrook
09-19-2008, 09:17 PM
I am considering buying a new 2008 Scag Turf Tiger that is fitted with a Kubota 25 hp.diesel engine and a 61" mowing deck, but I am wondering if the Cat diesel would be a better choice, being it is rated at 28 hp. We have hilly terrain where I live, but not real steep! The one thing holding me back from stepping up to the Cat diesel is there is a major difference in cost, there is currently a promotion running on the one with the Kubota engine which makes it about $4000 cheaper than the one with the Cat engine! But we all know that cheaper isn't always better! So my question is this, is the extra difference in cost worth it to go for the Cat engine, or does the smaller Kubota engine have more than enough power for the 61" deck? This is our first ZTR, so any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

Hunter73
09-20-2008, 10:11 AM
I personally would save the $4K and go with the 25hp diesel. The 28hp would be nice to have with the 61" deck, but it wouldn't be worth the extra $4K. IMO.

nosparkplugs
09-20-2008, 10:33 AM
Scag is no longer using kubota, and liquidating their Kubota diesel units at or below cost; because Kubota has become a PITA (keeping tight reigns limited stock on their engine parts now). I have posted this before, and many others have called BS; however it came dirrectly from the Scag dealer. Kubota has their own ZTR line, and keep their dealers stocked with parts, first then Scag so many Kubota powered Scags will be in the shop longer waiting for parts. Cat has pledged to notch service, has no loyatly to any ZTR manufacture, and at this time only makes powerplants for ZTR's. Scag is over priced for that yellow Cat paint, look at the Bad Boy AOS Cat diesel line you can get the 4 banger 35hp Cat diesel for $12,975 way more Mower for the money.

Mike Blevins
09-20-2008, 01:26 PM
If I had to have the diesel I would get the Kubota. With $4000 difference that is a no brainer. I'm not going to turn this into another BAdboy Scag thread. Just do this --------- Go and look at a three year old Scag(any motor and deck cobo) and a thre year old Badboy(any engine and deck combo) and see which one has the best resale value.

JShe8918
09-20-2008, 01:52 PM
I had the same problem deciding between the scag 28 cat, scag 25 bota, and the scag 27 kawasaki lc. The dealer told me that the bota's exhaust is funny about leaving a more distinct odor and isn't good about expelling them very far out. The cat is much better in that way plus you get a little more hp for the cat. Look at all of the skid steers out here going on 4 and 5 thousand hours with out any problems that is a good enough track record for me. I still ended up with the gasser and i kick myself in the ass all the time about it. Don't make a mistake go CAT....d

nosparkplugs
09-20-2008, 02:13 PM
If I had to have the diesel I would get the Kubota. With $4000 difference that is a no brainer. I'm not going to turn this into another BAdboy Scag thread. Just do this --------- Go and look at a three year old Scag(any motor and deck cobo) and a thre year old Badboy(any engine and deck combo) and see which one has the best resale value.

Lets talk resale value, with a struggling economy everyone has ZTR for sale, people are looking for a bargin. I would not want to purchase a used ZTR period, not even my own. Most folks who invest in a diesel model ZTR will keep it until the hour meter is in the 4 or 5 digits, and or needed consumables replaced. I see many worn out Scags for sale, and they need lots of work, but their bargins. I even know a Local LCO, who opted for a used Turf Tiger LC gasburner, and it needed some work but it was cheap. The dollar is weak, and so our economy has changed, resale values are not what they use to be, IMO purchase new wear it out.

I myself have owned new Scags ran them for two seasons, and was very disappointed at their mulching performance considering the cost of the mowers. Sold them for a loss, and will never purchase another one, unless the dealers get off their high horse's, and realize their other manufacture who offer quality products with more engine combinations & HP for less money.

TheOctagon
09-20-2008, 02:36 PM
In this situation i would stick with the kubota as well. The 28 cat is a great engine but imo when comparing the badboy 35 4 cylinder to the 28 3 cylinder the 3 cylinder has much more vibration and sounds a little less refined. Still a great engine but just kinda rough. Save that 4 grand and i dont think you will be disappointed w/ your decision.

ricky86
09-20-2008, 02:37 PM
To your original question. A 25hp diesel is more then enough for a 60" cut. We have the same engine on 72" and have power to spare. One word of caution. Any diesel will far outlive the rest of the unit. Buy the best "brand'' you can afford. Any brand diesel will be fine. My opinion : Toro Z593 period.

treeman574
09-20-2008, 03:10 PM
run the kubota it will run forever. the problems with scags mulching in the last few years was with the deck design not the motors we never owned anything but scags until they changed to the advantage deck and yes we do have one of they but they suck! plain and simple. we have demoed 2 different combos and deck sizes with the new velocity deck and they are even better than the old NE deck we even took one out in the pouring rain and it cut perfectly with no clumps. these were both gassers but i think the next purchase will be the diesel.

nosparkplugs
09-20-2008, 03:11 PM
To your original question. A 25hp diesel is more then enough for a 60" cut. We have the same engine on 72" and have power to spare. One word of caution. Any diesel will far outlive the rest of the unit. Buy the best "brand'' you can afford. Any brand diesel will be fine. My opinion : Toro Z593 period.

That is true; however ease of repair, and cost of parts are important. I agree I heard the 3 cylinder Cat run, it does not sound "right" when compared to a Kubota diesel or the 4 banger 35hp Cat diesel. I would not overlook the Bad Boy AOS 35HP cat diesel it comes in a 62" or 72" deck 1/4 inch thick deck thicker than Scag decks. I am waiting till this spring to purchase me a Bad Boy AOS diesel i have researched this until I am blue in the face, their really well designed ZTR's made in the USA in Arkansas the Company is experiencing explosive growth, so all these Bad Boy sales cannot be because their cheap, if you take a step back, their right in line on price your able to step up to one of the largest powered Cat diesel ZTR's the BB 35hp Cat AOS line, for at least $2,500 less the price of a Scag TT 28hp Cat diesel, and depending on the Scag dealer, sometimes more.

jkilov
09-20-2008, 08:24 PM
So there's a $4,000 difference between the two. You must be talking some high figures. How much do they want for the cat scag? Does that mean the cat motor costs $8,000??

I doubt there's anything wrong with a 3-cylinder diesel. Shorter and more compact, less fat lump sticking out the back, cheaper to buy and repair. So it vibrates more and sounds like a peasant's tractor. Big deal.

Marshbrook
09-20-2008, 10:38 PM
The promotion price the dealer is asking on the new 2008 Scag with the Kabota diesel and the 61" deck is $10,900 and the price on the one with the Cat diesel came in at $15,000 and chage! This to me this is a big difference in cost, so any and all advice is greatly appreciated!

Marshbrook
09-22-2008, 07:31 PM
Thanks for everyones imput, I went for the Scag with the Kubota, with the promotional price of $10,900 I just couldn't justify spending $4000 more for the Cat engine! For what its worth, I spoke with a rep. at scag, and they told me that the Kubota engine is in the 2009 model lineup and that it was not being dropped, they still plan on offering both engines, only time will tell!

mag360
09-23-2008, 12:23 AM
That's a fantastic price.

nosparkplugs
09-23-2008, 06:47 PM
So there's a $4,000 difference between the two. You must be talking some high figures. How much do they want for the cat scag? Does that mean the cat motor costs $8,000??

I doubt there's anything wrong with a 3-cylinder diesel. Shorter and more compact, less fat lump sticking out the back, cheaper to buy and repair. So it vibrates more and sounds like a peasant's tractor. Big deal.

Do the math Scag wants $15,000 & change for the 28hp Cat diesel. Bad boy wants $12,675.00 out the door for the AOS 35hp cat diesel. Either Scag has lost their mind on their Mower prices, or BB is knocking at their doors.

sven1277
09-23-2008, 09:08 PM
I was also considering the diesel engines seeing as I mulch and bag with my two mowers. However, Scag introduced a Kohler 31hp lc fuel injected engine this year and I love it. Noticeable power increase over the kawi 29dfi. I can't see needing any more power than that.

Lawnworks
09-23-2008, 09:25 PM
Lets talk resale value, with a struggling economy everyone has ZTR for sale, people are looking for a bargin. I would not want to purchase a used ZTR period, not even my own. Most folks who invest in a diesel model ZTR will keep it until the hour meter is in the 4 or 5 digits, and or needed consumables replaced. I see many worn out Scags for sale, and they need lots of work, but their bargins. I even know a Local LCO, who opted for a used Turf Tiger LC gasburner, and it needed some work but it was cheap. The dollar is weak, and so our economy has changed, resale values are not what they use to be, IMO purchase new wear it out.

I myself have owned new Scags ran them for two seasons, and was very disappointed at their mulching performance considering the cost of the mowers. Sold them for a loss, and will never purchase another one, unless the dealers get off their high horse's, and realize their other manufacture who offer quality products with more engine combinations & HP for less money.

How do you manage to lose money on a Scag? The resale value of these machines is crazy... 1500hrs and the things still sell for 5k. Bad boy is a second tier machine.

Buying new is not always the best thing. My buddy bought a Tiger w/ 250 hours for 5k... I bought one w/ 500 hours for 4.5k... and the truth is I can put anothr 1500 hours and get 4-5k locally out of them.

The economy being soft is an even better reason to buy used... you will get more for your money.

nosparkplugs
09-23-2008, 10:33 PM
How do you manage to lose money on a Scag? The resale value of these machines is crazy... 1500hrs and the things still sell for 5k. Bad boy is a second tier machine.

Buying new is not always the best thing. My buddy bought a Tiger w/ 250 hours for 5k... I bought one w/ 500 hours for 4.5k... and the truth is I can put anothr 1500 hours and get 4-5k locally out of them.

The economy being soft is an even better reason to buy used... you will get more for your money.

I agree that purchasing new is not always best; however one thing I purchase new is mowers. Their are to many variables with these machines that can cause problems down the line. Something that is going to generate income to feed my family is going to be new. Scags are top of the line ZTR's, and the price shows, Bad Boy Second tier machine? depends on brand loyalty; which means nothing to me right now because I am in the market for a new diesel ZTR, and have an open mind.

Analogy
I'm a die hard Dodge Cummins truck owner, and have listen to what POS the Dodge & Cummins are on this site. I would think the same applies to ZTR'S, I ran Scags, and was NOT impressed with the Velocity deck; and for such a prestigious company and only a 28hp Cat diesel for $15,000.

Bad Boy? who are they? considered to be second tier machines buy the "lawnsite Scholars", I would rather "take" my chances with Bad Boy AOS Diesel, and save the extra $3,000 in my bank account for these uncertain times.

create_username
09-24-2008, 01:32 AM
Do the math Scag wants $15,000 & change for the 28hp Cat diesel. Bad boy wants $12,675.00 out the door for the AOS 35hp cat diesel. Either Scag has lost their mind on their Mower prices, or BB is knocking at their doors.

Who said anything about bb? The thread is "Scag Turf Tiger advice needed!" What is it with you bb fans? Convince yourself bb is "knocking" at scags doors and that bb's are a better value than scag. All of us scag guys just don't know any better so please be patient with us untill we can see the truth.

Lawnworks
09-24-2008, 06:14 AM
I agree that purchasing new is not always best; however one thing I purchase new is mowers. Their are to many variables with these machines that can cause problems down the line. Something that is going to generate income to feed my family is going to be new. Scags are top of the line ZTR's, and the price shows, Bad Boy Second tier machine? depends on brand loyalty; which means nothing to me right now because I am in the market for a new diesel ZTR, and have an open mind.

Analogy
I'm a die hard Dodge Cummins truck owner, and have listen to what POS the Dodge & Cummins are on this site. I would think the same applies to ZTR'S, I ran Scags, and was NOT impressed with the Velocity deck; and for such a prestigious company and only a 28hp Cat diesel for $15,000.

Bad Boy? who are they? considered to be second tier machines buy the "lawnsite Scholars", I would rather "take" my chances with Bad Boy AOS Diesel, and save the extra $3,000 in my bank account for these uncertain times.


I used to be the same way... buying new mowers every two years... but I don't anymore. It just doesn't make business sense. Instead I have 4 Tigers... 2 primaries and 2 back-ups. I get the same service at my dealer whether I buy from him or buy used. Why buy new when you can get a practically new one 3-5k less?

As far as bad boy goes... I have owned a second tier machine before... and will never again.... It is Exmark and Scag from now on... they are more money for a reason.

If you wanted to "save money for these uncertain times" you would wait till winter and get a deal on a used machine w/ low hours!

mag360
09-24-2008, 06:54 PM
Just checked with my dealer and the 25/61 is $11,700 here. Still a good price all things considered.

Buying used and keeping spares is a great way to go. We do a combination. I bought one new scag, one used scag, and two used john deeres in the past 15 months. The used ones see use for a season or two then sold. The new ones we'll keep for a several seasons.
Having a backup is definitely better than having one new machine.

RTR Landscaping
09-24-2008, 07:26 PM
I use all Scags in my business.The Turf Tiger is absolutley the best all around mower I've ever owned. I also have 4 in my company but they are all gas burners. I have nothing against diesels but I don't keep a mower long enough to use them. The Velocity decks are awesome.
I looked at the Bad Boys a couple of years ago at the GIE show.It's not a bad looking mower,but to me it does not compare to the Scag.I'm willing to pay for a known commodity more than buying a lower cost mower that may not even be around 5-10 years down the road.
The other thing to look at is service. My Scag dealer gives me excellent parts and service on all my mowers and handheld equipment.The dealer is a valuable asset to me being successful, and this also works the other way.Loyality is probably an over used word, but I'll remain with Scag.