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View Full Version : New Roller style 15" VTS for 60HP and down skids.


KRtraxx
09-20-2008, 10:15 PM
Been away for awhile, I hope I am not bringing up any old news here. Here is a few pics of the new "roller drive" style VTS for 60hp and down machines. Just got them on demo a couple days ago and already 6 sold..Am VERY impressed the way this works on smaller skids 50-60HP.It pulls way easier than the original VTS does on these smaller skids. Has an ASV/Cat style track pattern for minimum soil disturbance and also drives internally like an ASV does with rollers.Only I think the roller set up is longer life than what ASV is using.(time will tell).The suspended(3"travel) ride quality is very close to the ASV/Cat.
I have only had them so far on a Cat 216 and a New Holland 175..Both worked better than any other small tracked unit I have ever driven. An owner here who has 30, Cat 216, 247 and 257s said he is going to be switching all his dedicated track units over to this set up over the next year due to performance and cost factors.(all steel rollers and tracks list for about 1500 each)
Track life on any skid depends alot on how well it is supported.Even though this roller VTS has less rollers than an ASV there is MORE roller contact area,which should extend track life.Some of the test units have over a 1000 hrs on original tracks so far..
Another advantage I noticed right away is the attack angle the track has compared to other factory units.This thing will want to climb on TOP on the material in front of it instaed of burrowing in when the mud is deep.One of the contractors also noted that it climbs and decends curbs easier when doing gutter work.
Dont think I would put it on anything over 60HP or 6500# though.That would be my limit on size for these units.No word yet on whether there will be the same design availible for bigger units..I think a lot of guys would like to have a bigger VTS with the less agressive CAT/ASV style tread pattern for finishing work...

stuvecorp
09-20-2008, 10:30 PM
Preach on, brother.

bobcat_ron
09-21-2008, 12:12 PM
OK, so it's still an ASV "style" track and ASV "style" drive system, but with less rollers, but the rollers are NOT rubber surfaced? I can see track internal surface problems already after 250 hours, I was considering going to all Bair rollers, but then I thought about all the rocks I go through, and how that will chip away at the inside of the track.

It looks good though, how wide are the factory units that were 66" with tires now after the VTS?

KRtraxx
09-21-2008, 10:58 PM
Ok heres a blown up pic so you can see the details better of the 40 plus VTS.

bobcat_ron
09-22-2008, 09:04 AM
What are the rollers made of? Plastic with rubber bonded or just straight rubber? I don't see any bond lines around the circumference.

AMCAT
09-22-2008, 09:26 AM
Can't excatly see in there but are some of those rollers on pivot boggies like the ASV\CAT style U\C for better suspension or smoother ride ???
Looks like loegering is catching up with the hard core Track Machines :weightlifter:

KRtraxx
09-22-2008, 09:57 AM
ALL the rollers are strictly steel.No rubber or plastic.No more replacing chewed up rollers or idlers.Track replacement costs are at least 50% less list price wise.Life should be very similar to the ASV track.Could possibly be longer due to the fact the VTS has more surface area of the rollers supporting the track.The total cost of ownership compared to the ASV U/Cs is going to be WAY less per hr.
Amcat the rollers do NOT pivot like some of the larger frame ASVs /Cats do..This was done for cost and less to maintain reasons.Ride is surprizing similar to a 50-60 hp ASV /Cat..On a longer wheelbase unit(Deere /NH style) you have about 6" more track on the ground than a 247,RC60,You could tell the diff in ride and pushing ability on these longer machines but even the shorter wheelbase units rode and pushed better than I expected.

iron peddler
09-22-2008, 05:10 PM
same company make these belts that made the original design? if so,i would not make any promises on track life....maybe after they pick the right compound.....vts systems have not been the ultimate solution for every situation.....if you are 50/50 user on track vs tire it works, if it is 70/30 for your application don't expect 1500 hours...also no one has asked yet, but what is the ground speed of this system? the previous vts really slowed down most machines

KRtraxx
09-22-2008, 08:57 PM
same company make these belts that made the original design? if so,i would not make any promises on track life....maybe after they pick the right compound.....vts systems have not been the ultimate solution for every situation.....if you are 50/50 user on track vs tire it works, if it is 70/30 for your application don't expect 1500 hours...also no one has asked yet, but what is the ground speed of this system? the previous vts really slowed down most machines

No they have went with a different supplier for the rubber part of the tracks this time.They did try their original supplier and were NOT happy with the results,which is why they have went elsewhere.On the original style VTS the compound has changed to a softer track and so far is not prone to cracking like the originals did... Concerning track life on the 40 plus. Your right ..I have seen people wreck many different brands even in as little as 400hrs.Track life depends a LOT on operator and job conditions. I guess I really shouldnt have stated 1500 hrs.I am just going by what the test units have run successfully without issues. Real operators in real world conditions could get way different results.But I dont think the VTSs track life in harsh conditions will be any worse than any other tracked unit.
As far as travel speed,they are geared the same as the first VTSs.About a mile to a mile and a half slower than stock tires.They HAVE to do this due to the added weight and traction the skid has with these on.If they left it geared the same the units would not push as well due to being geared to high for the weight and traction. A 2 speed unit though works nicely for traveling on a job site and goes faster than most other factory track machines in the same class..

bobcat_ron
09-22-2008, 09:51 PM
Well, I am not going to bash this set up, but I think the inside of the track where the rollers run on will get chewed up with the all steel rollers.

KRtraxx
09-22-2008, 09:54 PM
I guess only time will tell that one. But the aftermarket does provide aluminum or steel rollers for the Cat/ASV set up and they have had good results with those..

iron peddler
09-22-2008, 10:02 PM
Concerning track life on the 40 plus. Your right ..I have seen people wreck many different brands even in as little as 400hrs.Track life depends a LOT on operator and job conditions. I guess I really shouldnt have stated 1500 hrs.I am just going by what the test units have run successfully without issues. Real operators in real world conditions could get way different results.But I dont think the VTSs track life in harsh conditions will be any worse than any other tracked unit.


seems like i have heard most of that before, or maybe i typed it.....just be careful....it is an option right now vs solution, not trying to pick but you can get buried on here if you make any claims that don't come true.

Digdeep
09-22-2008, 11:15 PM
No they have went with a different supplier for the rubber part of the tracks this time.They did try their original supplier and were NOT happy with the results,which is why they have went elsewhere.On the original style VTS the compound has changed to a softer track and so far is not prone to cracking like the originals did... Concerning track life on the 40 plus. Your right ..I have seen people wreck many different brands even in as little as 400hrs.Track life depends a LOT on operator and job conditions. I guess I really shouldnt have stated 1500 hrs.I am just going by what the test units have run successfully without issues. Real operators in real world conditions could get way different results.But I dont think the VTSs track life in harsh conditions will be any worse than any other tracked unit.
As far as travel speed,they are geared the same as the first VTSs.About a mile to a mile and a half slower than stock tires.They HAVE to do this due to the added weight and traction the skid has with these on.If they left it geared the same the units would not push as well due to being geared to high for the weight and traction. A 2 speed unit though works nicely for traveling on a job site and goes faster than most other factory track machines in the same class..

I'm highly suspect of any claim on any VTS system talking about 1500 hours. It's damn hard to get that out of a mini excavator track and they don't do squat. I'd say that time frame would be more realistic if that was an ASV track and not the cheap Korean tracks that the VTS's were using. I was told that that undercarriage was shown as a "prototype" at WOC and once again I doubt that they have gotten anywhere near 1500hours on enough sets since then to claim a 1500 hour track life. I remember the Bridestone reps telling us to expect close to 2000 hours out of their tracks on our Bobcats and we were extremely lucky to see half that when I left as a salesman a couple of years ago. I will add that I think it is a step in the right direction to have a real VTS option for the small skid frames now. I guess I'm still a little skeptical of the whole VTS thing based on what I've seen and heard from owners. I hope they work.

RockSet N' Grade
09-22-2008, 11:38 PM
DigDeep........share if you will what you have heard about VTS.....pros/cons........the good, the bad and the ugly (somebody ought to write a movie - great title).

74inchShovel
09-22-2008, 11:53 PM
In this horsepower class, ASV transmits the power to 2 drive lugs per track. Even at this, they are still prone to tearing out. This set up appears to have only a single drive lug- maybe the larger diameter of the drive sprocket will offset this and transmit the load to more lugs.

"I think a lot of guys would like to have a bigger VTS with the less agressive CAT/ASV style tread pattern for finishing work... " Absolutely, Solid deal, McClarren have noticed this as well.

bobcat_ron
09-23-2008, 07:41 PM
In this horsepower class, ASV transmits the power to 2 drive lugs per track. Even at this, they are still prone to tearing out. This set up appears to have only a single drive lug- maybe the larger diameter of the drive sprocket will offset this and transmit the load to more lugs.

"I think a lot of guys would like to have a bigger VTS with the less agressive CAT/ASV style tread pattern for finishing work... " Absolutely, Solid deal, McClarren have noticed this as well.

There are 3 lugs in contact at all times on the ASV RC50/60 U/C, not 2, I know, I check mine once in a while just for kicks.

Digdeep
09-23-2008, 10:21 PM
There are 3 lugs in contact at all times on the ASV RC50/60 U/C, not 2, I know, I check mine once in a while just for kicks.

Correct. ASV's larger machines have a minimum of 4 lugs contacting the sprocket at all times.

Digdeep
09-23-2008, 10:22 PM
In this horsepower class, ASV transmits the power to 2 drive lugs per track. Even at this, they are still prone to tearing out. This set up appears to have only a single drive lug- maybe the larger diameter of the drive sprocket will offset this and transmit the load to more lugs.

"I think a lot of guys would like to have a bigger VTS with the less agressive CAT/ASV style tread pattern for finishing work... " Absolutely, Solid deal, McClarren have noticed this as well.

The CAT 257 was the primary culprit for tearing lugs off the tracks. Simply too heavy for the undercarriage.

Digdeep
09-23-2008, 10:33 PM
DigDeep........share if you will what you have heard about VTS.....pros/cons........the good, the bad and the ugly (somebody ought to write a movie - great title).

pros...offers additional options for existing skid owners to have tracks. From what I see and hear from guys I work around and sold machines to they don't take them off once they put them on. The machines productivity increases by large amounts in traction, stability, ROC, and extra applications.

cons....they are expensive. I have seen and talked to many customers who experienced low hour track failures (track disentigration, bars ripping out, edges peeling off, etc.). Some machines can't handle the extra stresses to the drive trains (more traction= greater loads on chains, sprockets, pumps, etc.). Loader arms and pins (increased ROCs and torque loads side to side). almost all OEMs void their warranties so Loegering has to offer their own. I do know that CAt beefed up their chain case and chains due to some failures they were seeing.

I think it boils down to what works best for the customer. I would never tell someone not to get the VTS but I'm still convinced that a dedicated track machine will be better over the long haul. Of course everyone has their own feelings on this and it works for them.

Scag48
09-23-2008, 11:46 PM
The CAT 257 was the primary culprit for tearing lugs off the tracks. Simply too heavy for the undercarriage.

Well it certinaly wasn't because it had too much power! :laugh: :hammerhead:

stuvecorp
09-24-2008, 02:22 AM
pros...offers additional options for existing skid owners to have tracks. From what I see and hear from guys I work around and sold machines to they don't take them off once they put them on. The machines productivity increases by large amounts in traction, stability, ROC, and extra applications.

cons....they are expensive. I have seen and talked to many customers who experienced low hour track failures (track disentigration, bars ripping out, edges peeling off, etc.). Some machines can't handle the extra stresses to the drive trains (more traction= greater loads on chains, sprockets, pumps, etc.). Loader arms and pins (increased ROCs and torque loads side to side). almost all OEMs void their warranties so Loegering has to offer their own. I do know that CAt beefed up their chain case and chains due to some failures they were seeing.

I think it boils down to what works best for the customer. I would never tell someone not to get the VTS but I'm still convinced that a dedicated track machine will be better over the long haul. Of course everyone has their own feelings on this and it works for them.


I know most salesmen that are selling a track machine really beat up on the VTS, it seems people have a love it or hate it attitude. I thought I would take the tracks on and off but they stay on all the time(too busy or too lazy?). The performance gains are tremendous but I don't have a long term history so will see. Some downsides I think are the cost, the width, and the loss of speed but I still like the VTS better than having a dedicated track machine.