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DBFlawn
09-23-2008, 09:52 PM
hi this is my first post. i mainly just read on here and my dad owns a fence company. i just love reading about things like this. but anyhow i was wondering whick in better on the grass over all. a ctl or ssl. im just talking about grass. wet grass dry grass. which over all does less damage. i have looked on google but cant find anything believe it or not.

also obsiouly tires are better on pavement but how long do tracks last on pavement.

thanks DBF

atasteofnature
09-23-2008, 09:56 PM
In my 9 years of experience i have found tracks to be great things for less marks in the grass and is doesn't compact as much as the weight is evenly spread but also with the tracks you need to keep them cleaned out and tighten which isn't hard but more on the preventive maintenance end of it. That is all for my $.02.

DBFlawn
09-23-2008, 09:59 PM
so the tracks have less disturbance in grass than the tires no matter what conditions.

thnaks DBF

atasteofnature
09-23-2008, 10:02 PM
as soon as you want to move with tires that little area will grip that grass and just pull on it where the tracks will take the whole area of track and move the machine and not spin out.

Dirtman2007
09-23-2008, 10:08 PM
It really depends on the operator as much. I could tear up a lawn by doing a complete 360 or i could make a very wide turn a do little damage. you can also do the forward and reverse turn where you just keep drive up and back while turning nice and easy at the same time. A wheel machine on wet grass will tear it up quicker than a track machine will. But all in all it just depends on how many times you have to track or drive over the area before it's destroyed.
Rubber tracks on concrete or asphalt don't really mix very good. you'll see just how much rubber is on the ground after you drive on concrete. As much as those tracks cost I never run mine on concrete or asphalt unless it is to load the machine on a trailer. that's it though.

P.Services
09-23-2008, 10:12 PM
It really depends on the operator as much. I could tear up a lawn by doing a complete 360 or i could make a very wide turn a do little damage. you can also do the forward and reverse turn where you just keep drive up and back while turning nice and easy at the same time. A wheel machine on wet grass will tear it up quicker than a track machine will. But all in all it just depends on how many times you have to track or drive over the area before it's destroyed.
Rubber tracks on concrete or asphalt don't really mix very good. you'll see just how much rubber is on the ground after you drive on concrete. As much as those tracks cost I never run mine on concrete or asphalt unless it is to load the machine on a trailer. that's it though.


did you get a new set of tracks for your 150?

Digdeep
09-23-2008, 10:14 PM
Tracks are much better on grass than tires. Go to youtube and type in "ASV turf". It amazes me how gentle those turf tracks are.

DBFlawn
09-23-2008, 10:33 PM
as soon as you want to move with tires that little area will grip that grass and just pull on it where the tracks will take the whole area of track and move the machine and not spin out.

so tires rip up that little area while the tracks slide over the grass?

DBFlawn
09-23-2008, 10:34 PM
Tracks are much better on grass than tires. Go to youtube and type in "ASV turf". It amazes me how gentle those turf tracks are.

i saw that when i was looking for information. that amazes me too. do they have those for bobcat?

Digdeep
09-23-2008, 10:41 PM
i saw that when i was looking for information. that amazes me too. do they have those for bobcat?

Nope. I think ASV is the only one who offers a track like that as far as I've seen. I'm pretty sure they have a patent on their undercarriages and their tracks.

Junior M
09-23-2008, 10:42 PM
i saw that when i was looking for information. that amazes me too. do they have those for bobcat?
You cant get ASV tracks for a bobcat as far as I know, there is a company out there that makes a track that is similar to the ASV track pattern. As for what type of trackloader will be better on grass and an MTL will be the easiest on it, it wont rut up like a CTL will. Ron has pics posted some where around here of where he had tracked hauling mulch or something of that sort in his yard. (I really hate to admit that since I am a bobcat fan but its the truth)

P.Services
09-23-2008, 10:46 PM
junior im going to guess and say thet are talking about the green turf tracks, not what you are talking about.

bobcat_ron
09-23-2008, 10:50 PM
junior im going to guess and say thet are talking about the green turf tracks, not what you are talking about.

Nope, he speaks the truth, 10 trips, wet lawn with 1700 pounds of wet mulch on a modified fork/military shipping crate:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/DIGI0004.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/DIGI0001.jpg

DBFlawn
09-23-2008, 10:58 PM
how much damage would have tires done?

thanks for all your help so far

Junior M
09-23-2008, 10:58 PM
With a bobcat that wouldve been rutted up as H#LL! I think I would have had to find something else to get it up there if it was my yard and all I had was a bobcat.

And I was just guessing about that video, using context clues considering the video was named ASV something, (I just forgot)

bobcat_ron
09-23-2008, 11:08 PM
how much damage would have tires done?

thanks for all your help so far

I did that same stretch of lawn with my 753 before 2003, twice as many trips in the Summer, and I was stock piling dirt from mole hills to fill in the ruts.

DBFlawn
09-23-2008, 11:11 PM
so it sounds like most of you guys would recomend tracks over tires for grass huh.

Scag48
09-23-2008, 11:25 PM
Here's the thing about tracks and tires on grass. Tracks provide less ground pressure, however, there is much more track on the ground that will physically tear the grass to pieces. The tracks will have less impact on the soil below the grass, which to me is much more important. Once you start making ruts, not only is the grass screwed beyond belief, but now you have ruts to fix. To me, tracks are a lesser of two evils but only if operated smartly. Since there is more track on the ground, when making a turn you chew up a much larger area. Like I said, the grass will come back, it's more important for me not to make ruts, that costs you twice.

You can see in Ron's pics that just the grass itself is toast. Throw down some seed and let it grow back. Now imagine ruts and the joyous task of fixing them.

P.Services
09-23-2008, 11:57 PM
no those are not the style of tracks considered "turf tracks" asv is the only manufacture to make them. this is the track.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DULRjWtjj2g

bobcat_ron
09-24-2008, 09:54 AM
Here's the thing about tracks and tires on grass. Tracks provide less ground pressure, however, there is much more track on the ground that will physically tear the grass to pieces. The tracks will have less impact on the soil below the grass, which to me is much more important. Once you start making ruts, not only is the grass screwed beyond belief, but now you have ruts to fix. To me, tracks are a lesser of two evils but only if operated smartly. Since there is more track on the ground, when making a turn you chew up a much larger area. Like I said, the grass will come back, it's more important for me not to make ruts, that costs you twice.

You can see in Ron's pics that just the grass itself is toast. Throw down some seed and let it grow back. Now imagine ruts and the joyous task of fixing them.


The roots were still intact, the grass grew back, and there are no signs I was there.

Gravel Rat
09-24-2008, 12:45 PM
What happens with tire on wet grass it spins can you imagine working a wheeled skid on grass. A wheeled skid starts to bounce then the weight transfers to 1-2 tires so they start to dig in.

The only other option you have is a small backhoe with turf tires.

DBFlawn
09-24-2008, 04:07 PM
wow i never thought that this would be such a hard decision. thanks for all your help so far guys. i'm not sold on which one would be better but i guess it depends on the job. if you have any more opinions they are greatly welcome.

thanks DBF

Dirtman2007
09-24-2008, 06:27 PM
did you get a new set of tracks for your 150?

Yep right at 700 hours the flipping cleats ripped out of the track leaving the machine stranded about 1/8th of a mile in the woods down a narrow sewer line path with no way to get the machine out. so we had to replace the tracks on site along with a couple rollers. Tracks were $1500 each and you have to replace the sprockets at the same time at around $300 each and rollers are $400 each... merry Christmas!

We have now found a new place that sells these replacement tracks for a much lower price than the dealer.


Here are a few pics

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee145/Letsdig18/Picture204.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee145/Letsdig18/Picture205.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee145/Letsdig18/Picture220.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee145/Letsdig18/Picture206.jpg

P.Services
09-24-2008, 07:39 PM
1500 isnt really a bad price, what price did you get that was better then that?

DougW
09-24-2008, 07:42 PM
Tracks all day if you don't work on much pavement. How you distribute your weight is key in landscaping. It's been said already in this thread, but I'll say it again to further solidify the point being made. Tire machines leave ruts from poor weight management. They have their advantages in certain respects; but peoples yards are out of the question.

If you rotate your tracks and sprockets periodically while keeping the machine in dirt they'll last you up to and beyond 3000 hours. Use a track machine on pavement and you'll be lucky to get 1000 hours out of them.

I hope this helps your decision making process.

DBFlawn
09-24-2008, 09:45 PM
yes it does help me and i appreciate all your help. we are 50-50 for the gras and pavement. so i guess we should stick with the tires huh

thanks again
DBF

Junior M
09-24-2008, 09:59 PM
You can be on pavement and be easy on the tracks, it just takes some thinking on what to do on how you move.. Its about like being on turf you dont wanta tear up except backwards, you are now worried about the tracks instead of the surface you are on...

DBFlawn
09-24-2008, 10:09 PM
ya i see what you are saying....but we have crews that go out on the jobs and i dont think that they would care as much as say if i was out there or something like that .

CAT powered
09-24-2008, 10:14 PM
I'm going to recommend a tractor with turf tires on it like someone already suggested. I had a Ford 1920 tractor with turf tires that I would overseed with and even when I was overseeding it wouldn't tear turf and it did fine on pavement as well. I bought it new in 1988 and I would still have it to this day if I didn't have some family BS that went down. It only ever had one set of tires that entire time and they were filled since it had a loader frame on the front and through all those years it got a lot of hours, but the tires still had a ton of tread left last time I saw them.

I really think that for your application if you can afford just a little extra length you'll be a lot happier with a tractor rather than a skid.

Junior M
09-24-2008, 10:17 PM
Well to each his own, but i will never go to a skidsteer I will stay with a CTL or an MTL, I dont like skidsteers, but they have there place, like in my conditions with all the sand a skidsteer sucks they have no traction, but in idaho where ksss works and the topsoil consists of rock a skid is perfect.. like I said to each his own...

DougW
09-24-2008, 11:10 PM
Have you seen our Toolcats by chance? All wheel steer with optional turf tires. Not nearly as wide as the Skidsteers, "easy backyard access", nor as heavy. Dump bed and full hydraulic capabilities in the front.

This takes most of your ruts out of the equation with the weight difference in machines. You can run less air pressure in turf tires and avoid ripping the topsoil with AWS. The turn radius is amazing... I could go on. You can find them used for a reasonable price and have the same or better landscaping capabilities as any of our skidsteer models, "aside from the A300", which you'll pay through the nose for.

http://www.bobcat.com/utility_machines/toolcat

Chances are in any case, your crew with be less concerned about how the machine acts on the lawn as you are. Inexperienced operators can make a mess fast in any machine, regardless of the type.

Best of luck to you.

minimax
09-24-2008, 11:57 PM
What about a mini-x with a post hole digger?

minimax

DBFlawn
09-25-2008, 03:47 PM
well i was trying to see if we could stick to a skid steer type platform. we have a bobcat 863 and a bobcat 843 now. (843 for sale if anyone interested lol) but ya trying to stick to the skid steer platform. i have been looking a the bobcat 773 turbo and hi flow to replace the 843 because the 773 has i think 2 more hp, it will dig at about the same speed as the 863, tipping load is about 300 pounds less than the 863, yet its total weight is like i believe 1500 to 2000 pounds less than the 863.

they 843 we have is great and mostly used because it is so much lighter than the 863. but from the specs it looks like the 773 is lighter and will dig just as fast as the 863.

sorry for the life story haha

DBF

DBFlawn
09-25-2008, 03:50 PM
Have you seen our Toolcats by chance? All wheel steer with optional turf tires. Not nearly as wide as the Skidsteers, "easy backyard access", nor as heavy. Dump bed and full hydraulic capabilities in the front.

This takes most of your ruts out of the equation with the weight difference in machines. You can run less air pressure in turf tires and avoid ripping the topsoil with AWS. The turn radius is amazing... I could go on. You can find them used for a reasonable price and have the same or better landscaping capabilities as any of our skidsteer models, "aside from the A300", which you'll pay through the nose for.

http://www.bobcat.com/utility_machines/toolcat

Chances are in any case, your crew with be less concerned about how the machine acts on the lawn as you are. Inexperienced operators can make a mess fast in any machine, regardless of the type.

Best of luck to you.


yes i have but i believe when i looked at them the 5600 series (only one i'd get) weighed the same and was longer than a bobcat.

anyone correct me if im wrong. my last two post have been off my memory lol