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bobcatuser
09-25-2008, 07:14 PM
Just some pictures if a recent job. These are my favorite type of reno. job, with the way things are being built there is no sortage of work.:drinkup:

bobcat_ron
09-25-2008, 07:34 PM
That kind of work with a non-zero tail swing excavator is never fun, but you sure made a nice job of stepping the trench.
So how is the gravel going in? Stone slinger?

Junior M
09-25-2008, 08:02 PM
What model is your excavator? Looks to be a 331 or 334, I cant tell

bobcat_ron
09-25-2008, 08:11 PM
334, it has a long stick.

Junior M
09-25-2008, 08:18 PM
How can you tell? I mean like how can you tell the difference in the pic? or are you just smart like that? :laugh:

bobcat_ron
09-25-2008, 08:23 PM
How can you tell? I mean like how can you tell the difference in the pic? or are you just smart like that? :laugh:

I remember pictures of his earlier posts, and the 334 he had pictured.

No I am not smart, just a good memory.

Junior M
09-25-2008, 08:26 PM
I remember pictures of his earlier posts, and the 334 he had pictured.

No I am not smart, just a good memory.
Oh, ok. I thought he had a 331 but i wasnt sure that is why i asked..

bobcatuser
09-25-2008, 08:52 PM
That kind of work with a non-zero tail swing excavator is never fun, but you sure made a nice job of stepping the trench.
So how is the gravel going in? Stone slinger?

I used my S185 and a coulple of goon spoons to get the rock in.

The excavator is a 334 G-series with about 3200 Hrs on it.

Mjh Excavating
09-25-2008, 09:20 PM
Nice clean work. I too do a bunch of these, I like the ones no one else wants to touch because of access issues. Curios how you removed the material, could you spin 180 around in there? or did you just keep working it back?

bobcatuser
09-25-2008, 09:41 PM
I pulled the material back. when there was a pile I used the skid to remove it.

In the first pic you can see the green wire insulation on the ground from the junkies, I was worried about my buckets getting stolen so I had to hide them in the dirt pile at the end of the day.

Junior M
09-25-2008, 09:44 PM
Do you always keep the tracks on your 185?

mrsops
09-25-2008, 09:46 PM
I used my S185 and a coulple of goon spoons to get the rock in.

The excavator is a 334 G-series with about 3200 Hrs on it.

i have a 334 g series as well i like it alot no problems at all with it.. 3200 hours wow how is it holding up for you it looks real good still

bobcatuser
09-25-2008, 10:02 PM
Do you always keep the tracks on your 185?

I only take them off when doing demo or to put the offset rims on to run 62" width.


i have a 334 g series as well i like it alot no problems at all with it.. 3200 hours wow how is it holding up for you it looks real good still

That 334 is the best machine i've had. When the tracks need replacing, probably near 4k hrs I'll trade it in for a another one.

Junior M
09-25-2008, 10:07 PM
Are you going to get another 334? or you going to get a different bobcat brand excavator?

bobcatuser
09-25-2008, 10:58 PM
Bobcat dosen't sell the 334 anymore they call it the 331 long arm, That's what i'll get.

mrsops
09-25-2008, 11:01 PM
Bobcat dosen't sell the 334 anymore they call it the 331 long arm, That's what i'll get.

That is correct. Hey bobcatuser do you go with the oem bridgestone tracks on the mini

bobcatuser
09-25-2008, 11:15 PM
I normally buy the Bridgestone tracks but the last set was one Bridgestone and one Chinese made from Dyne Industries.

So far the Chinese track is holding up better, the rubber is harder and there seems to be less rocks getting caught in the track when working in 3/4" clear crush. It was $600 less than the Bridgestone.

Dirt Digger2
09-26-2008, 03:21 AM
bobcatuser check out the same type of job i got to do this summer...yea it was fun :dizzy: ...your job looks great though, very professional and neat

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=217766&page=16

Gravel Rat
09-26-2008, 03:55 AM
Working between two cinder block buildings has to be a little nerve racking it would be easy to punch a hard to fix hole in either building :laugh:

tbi
09-26-2008, 03:31 PM
Working between two cinder block buildings has to be a little nerve racking it would be easy to punch a hard to fix hole in either building :laugh:

But no problem for a real operator.:walking:

Gravel Rat
09-26-2008, 04:09 PM
That is just a situation were you have to be very careful. A wood building would be more forgiving but once you smuck a cinder block you have a hole unless they are filled with concrete.

You have to be really carefull using a Bobcat mini :laugh:

Junior M
09-26-2008, 05:12 PM
I bet those controls are just fine! I dont know where you get that bobcat mini controls are really jumpy.. The only place I have seen that is on one 430. and that was fixed by putting new servo's in but it is GR and he whines and complains about everything so it doesnt surprise me...

But working in small area's does suck!

mrsops
09-26-2008, 06:21 PM
But no problem for a real operator.:walking:

your right about that tbi good to see you back

Scag48
09-26-2008, 08:55 PM
Looks good. I definately wouldn't want to be doing that with a conventional tail machine if I had a choice. Good move on stepping the trench, I see more stupid trenching jobs done by smaller operations than I care to talk about. Good to see someone doing it right.

AMCAT
09-26-2008, 09:20 PM
How Many hours on those tracks on the S185 ???? do they seem to hold out fairly well ??? Looks like those Solideal tracks that i have seen around here !!!

Gravel Rat
09-27-2008, 05:08 AM
You Bobcat lovers better try a different brand and you will see the difference.

It is alot of work digging and raking the material back especially if is loose and snotty material take a scoop and it wants to ooze back into the trench.

Junior M
09-27-2008, 09:36 AM
You Bobcat lovers better try a different brand and you will see the difference.

It is alot of work digging and raking the material back especially if is loose and snotty material take a scoop and it wants to ooze back into the trench.
I have tried other brands, not very many but overall I like the bobcat more. and I bet Bobcatuser has tried other brands and still likes bobcat more, and the same thing with mrsops.(other than his cat mini, and the cab on that thing is spectacular I will admit that)

bobcat_ron
09-27-2008, 12:14 PM
Bobatuser's Bobcat dealership (Surfwood) has a very strong presence in that area of the Lower Mainland, but piss them off and they will kick you in the ass, I know, my Dad used to deal with them when they were still dealing with Komatsu in the early 90's, as soon as Terra-Tech set up shop on the Langley Bypass, he got a few irate phone calls from the service desk people.

bobcatuser
09-27-2008, 12:53 PM
I have run other brands of equipment. My decision to buy Bobcat stuff comes down to, what will make the most return on investment.

In my area the dealer is excellent, they have a full rental fleet, the field mechanics are the best I have seen in the business they do all my service work. Resale value/Trades are always higher than other brands. The machines are powerfull and quick with a good operator and most machines use interchangeable parts/attachments which lower the operating cost. What more could you ask for?

That is just a situation were you have to be very careful. A wood building would be more forgiving but once you smuck a cinder block you have a hole unless they are filled with concrete.

You have to be really carefull using a Bobcat mini :laugh:

Bobcat excavators have fast cycle times, the operator must be smooth on the controls BEFORE you can be fast.

Gravel Rat
09-27-2008, 02:25 PM
Its Bobcat controls are unpredictable, I have operated all kinds of equipment and operated cranes so I know how to be smooth on hydraulics.

mrsops
09-27-2008, 03:01 PM
Its Bobcat controls are unpredictable, I have operated all kinds of equipment and operated cranes so I know how to be smooth on hydraulics.

i don't think bobcat controls are bad at all. my 334 if your not smooth with the controls it will jump a little bit but so does any other mini i have been in yes my cat is smoother but the bobcat isn't bad at all. If your not in a mini everyday your gonna be jumping all over the place in any machine. The newer bobcat excavators i have demoed have been ever better the 435 was real smooth the 337 was a nice machine to

Junior M
09-27-2008, 05:46 PM
Its Bobcat controls are unpredictable,

what?;):confused: that just dont make any sense? the only way it could be unpredicable if you dont know what your doing... and yea bobcat does run faster cycle times.. I am not sure why.. if anybody knows why bobcat does could you enlighten me?

Gravel Rat
09-27-2008, 05:59 PM
Any of the Bobcat minis I have run the controls are unpredictable. What I mean is they have a mind of their own. It is hard to describe but like I said you guys need to run other brands of machines.

On a bobcat machine I have to think too much.

Junior M
09-27-2008, 06:02 PM
Any of the Bobcat minis I have run the controls are unpredictable. What I mean is they have a mind of their own. It is hard to describe but like I said you guys need to run other brands of machines.

On a bobcat machine I have to think too much.
huh? i still dont understand.. but if you had to think you either were in the wrong pattern or werent used to running a trackhoe..

mrsops
09-27-2008, 06:03 PM
Any of the Bobcat minis I have run the controls are unpredictable. What I mean is they have a mind of their own. It is hard to describe but like I said you guys need to run other brands of machines.

On a bobcat machine I have to think too much.

i have never heard such a thing a mind of there own come on gravel :laugh:. You dont have to think to much on a bobcat mini you just have to have a nice soft touch which maybe you dont have?

Junior M
09-27-2008, 06:06 PM
The only set of controls to have a "mind of there own" that I have ever seen were on a bobcat 430 and there was something wrong with the servo's so if you were blading and you stopped real quick the right control would start shaking the stick back and forth it would do the same thing when you went to shake your bucket out.. but once they put new controls in it it was just fine..

ksss
09-27-2008, 07:06 PM
The only set of controls to have a "mind of there own" that I have ever seen were on a bobcat 430 and there was something wrong with the servo's so if you were blading and you stopped real quick the right control would start shaking the stick back and forth it would do the same thing when you went to shake your bucket out.. but once they put new controls in it it was just fine..


Jr. there are no servos in the Bobcat mini ex.

CAT powered
09-27-2008, 08:03 PM
I think what he means, Jr. is that if you push the stick the exact same way every time in a
Bobcat it won't make the exact same motion.

I think I'd shoot myself if I ran minis all day every day. Every mini I've been in has been incredibly uncomfortable and my back has been screaming by the end of the day. Real excavators are so much more comfortable and so much more smooth that it's not even funny.

Junior M
09-27-2008, 08:51 PM
Jr. there are no servos in the Bobcat mini ex.
Thats what I have always been told.. Sorry if I gave the wrong information I was just going off what I was told..

Southernlandscape343
09-27-2008, 09:05 PM
Its a real shame that we have to go into such precautions to protect our equipment. Why cant people just mind their own buisness?

Scag48
09-27-2008, 09:50 PM
bobcat does run faster cycle times.. I am not sure why.. if anybody knows why bobcat does could you enlighten me?

I highly doubt that's true. Even if it was, you wouldn't know, you've never run anything other than Bobcat. Come on Jr., don't start spitting a bunch of BS.

Junior M
09-27-2008, 09:53 PM
I have run other brands of equipment. My decision to buy Bobcat stuff comes down to, what will make the most return on investment.

In my area the dealer is excellent, they have a full rental fleet, the field mechanics are the best I have seen in the business they do all my service work. Resale value/Trades are always higher than other brands. The machines are powerfull and quick with a good operator and most machines use interchangeable parts/attachments which lower the operating cost. What more could you ask for?



Bobcat excavators have fast cycle times, the operator must be smooth on the controls BEFORE you can be fast.
You are mistaken I have ran other brands not alot of them but I have ran other brands, and look I am not the only one that has noticed that the controls are alot faster..

Scag48
09-27-2008, 10:04 PM
When you say a machine has "fast controls" it practically removes any credibility with the statement. Never ran a Bobcat I liked.

Junior M
09-27-2008, 10:13 PM
When you say a machine has "fast controls" it practically removes any credibility with the statement. Never ran a Bobcat I liked.
I meant fast cycle times.. but if there arent servo's like I have been told than how do your controls make the boom and stick and bucket move on a bobcat than?

CAT powered
09-27-2008, 10:17 PM
Junior you're greener'n grass.

How do you think they operated excavators before electronics/computers were introduced to them?

They used spool valves which were just valves which were directly connected to the control levers.

Junior M
09-27-2008, 10:23 PM
I knew that I am not a freakn idiot.. How am I suppose to learn if I dont ask? I catch crap because I ask questions and when I dont you expect me to know everything..

I am talking about now with the technology how are the hydraulics on the bobcat mini's controlled?

Scag48
09-27-2008, 10:38 PM
I am talking about now with the technology how are the hydraulics on the bobcat mini's controlled?

Pilot controls, just like every other excavator out there. E/H has not made it's way into excavators as far as I know, yet. Backhoe controls have become E/H, Cat and Deere offer them, but to my knowledge nobody is putting E/H in excvators, fullsize or mini, just quite yet.

bobcat_ron
09-27-2008, 10:41 PM
Pilot controls, just like every other excavator out there. E/H has not made it's way into excavators as far as I know, yet. Backhoe controls have become E/H, Cat and Deere offer them, but to my knowledge nobody is putting E/H in excvators, fullsize or mini, just quite yet.


Cat uses E/H in the 365's and up, they switched after noticing how hot the operator's legs got with the H/H system.

Volvo has E/H in all their hoes from the 20 to 70 ton machines.

Junior M
09-27-2008, 10:45 PM
Ok here is another question I know I am going to catch s#it about but I have to learn some freakn how.. so here it goes.. how does it technically work?

bobcat_ron
09-27-2008, 10:49 PM
Ok here is another question I know I am going to catch s#it about but I have to learn some freakn how.. so here it goes.. how does it technically work?

Variable position Electric solenoid valves controlling valves, Bobcat has used that system when they introduced their variable aux. hydraulic on the rowing oars, I had a mechanic give me the jist of the system, quite neat, but one short and it all goes to hell.

Junior M
09-27-2008, 11:04 PM
Variable position Electric solenoid valves controlling valves, Bobcat has used that system when they introduced their variable aux. hydraulic on the rowing oars, I had a mechanic give me the jist of the system, quite neat, but one short and it all goes to hell.
Oh, ok well now I know.. thanks...

bobcatuser
09-27-2008, 11:14 PM
what?;):confused: that just dont make any sense? the only way it could be unpredicable if you dont know what your doing... and yea bobcat does run faster cycle times.. I am not sure why.. if anybody knows why bobcat does could you enlighten me?

Faster cycle times means you can do more work in a day. Speed counts when you are loading a truck or digging a trench while the plumber is installing pipe.

I don't think many other machines in this class could finish grade a 30'x40' yard in under 3 minutes. This video is an example of fast cycle times. http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsrv5kokD3w

Junior M
09-27-2008, 11:26 PM
But why does bobcat do it? and why dont other brands or is bobcat just the oddball again?

bobcatuser
09-27-2008, 11:37 PM
This page will tell you why they do it. http://bobcat.com/excavators/why_bobcat

mrsops
09-28-2008, 01:17 AM
Faster cycle times means you can do more work in a day. Speed counts when you are loading a truck or digging a trench while the plumber is installing pipe.

I don't think many other machines in this class could finish grade a 30'x40' yard in under 3 minutes. This video is an example of fast cycle times. http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsrv5kokD3w

i dont see that machine jumping at all LOL nice work

AWJ Services
09-28-2008, 06:48 AM
I like that video.

Pilot controls control high pressure hyds with low pressure hyd fluid.

E/H use electric control valves too control the high pressure hyds.

So on pilots you have actual mechanical valves(hooked too the joy sticks) that control the low pressure oil that controls the high pressure hyd oil which moves the boom.

On E/H they have electrical devices that hook too the joysticks that vary voltage too a valve that varies the high pressure oil that moves the boom.

My Kubota uses E/H too move the aux function.
It uses pilots for the rest.

bobcat_ron
09-28-2008, 11:52 AM
This page will tell you why they do it. http://bobcat.com/excavators/why_bobcat

"Smoother
Other brands claim they are smooth but are often just slow. Coupled with cushioned cylinders, Bobcat advanced hydraulics feature exclusive control valve systems that deliver consistent oil flow to all functions. This delivers smooth operation without sacrificing cycle times. Bobcat excavators are both smooth and fast, so you can get your work done more quickly.
Faster
True cycle times arenít measured in a dealer parking lot. Theyíre measured on the job, under load. Matching cylinder size to pump capacities, Bobcat advanced hydraulics deliver industry leading cycle times. Try Bobcat against other brands in real life situations, such as loading trucks, placing boulders or trenching. Youíll get the job done faster with Bobcat excavators."

So that still doesn't explain the near stalling in this vid, even Al Roy complains of it:

Stalling at 8:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxc2ZHBKXbU

mrsops
09-28-2008, 12:05 PM
"Smoother
Other brands claim they are smooth but are often just slow. Coupled with cushioned cylinders, Bobcat advanced hydraulics feature exclusive control valve systems that deliver consistent oil flow to all functions. This delivers smooth operation without sacrificing cycle times. Bobcat excavators are both smooth and fast, so you can get your work done more quickly.
Faster
True cycle times arenít measured in a dealer parking lot. Theyíre measured on the job, under load. Matching cylinder size to pump capacities, Bobcat advanced hydraulics deliver industry leading cycle times. Try Bobcat against other brands in real life situations, such as loading trucks, placing boulders or trenching. Youíll get the job done faster with Bobcat excavators."

So that still doesn't explain the near stalling in this vid, even Al Roy complains of it:

Stalling at 8:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxc2ZHBKXbU

give me a break ron :laugh: he did just fine with that bobcat mini. He is a good operator i have seen some of his stuff on you tube

bobcat_ron
09-28-2008, 12:10 PM
give me a break ron :laugh: he did just fine with that bobcat mini. He is a good operator i have seen some of his stuff on you tube

No excavator engine should stall like that while climbing a small incline and using the boom/stick at the same time, hell, even our little Hitachi 27 (which is weak) doesn't whimper.

Junior M
09-28-2008, 12:21 PM
No excavator engine should stall like that while climbing a small incline and using the boom/stick at the same time, hell, even our little Hitachi 27 (which is weak) doesn't whimper.
The 430 is the only bobcat mini that I have ever ran to do that.. The 430 in the rental fleet at the bobcat dealer here does the exact same things that one does.. I am not sure why the 430 does it, but the 335 we rent doesnt do that, and the 331's and 337's they have dont do it,

Scag48
09-28-2008, 03:50 PM
Excavators should never stall. I honestly don't know how you could even make that happen. Since there's no direct drive on anything with an excavator, all it should do is lug down trying to power the pumps, that's it. Basically, the pumps should run out of juice and not move any fluid long before the motor pukes out.

bobcat_ron
09-28-2008, 03:54 PM
Excavators should never stall. I honestly don't know how you could even make that happen. Since there's no direct drive on anything with an excavator, all it should do is lug down trying to power the pumps, that's it. Basically, the pumps should run out of juice and not move any fluid long before the motor pukes out.

And yet Bobcat seems to know how to make an excavator stall!?!?! :laugh:

ksss
09-28-2008, 04:18 PM
And yet Bobcat seems to know how to make an excavator stall!?!?! :laugh:


Especially considering that BC excavators are higher hp generally than their Japanese counterparts.

bobcat_ron
09-28-2008, 04:41 PM
Well, enough Bobcat bashing, any more and I'm going to start dry humping the dent in my Cat's rear door (and maybe this time I get a hole in it)

C'mon Junior, let's get that 1BC3C (1 Bobcat 3 cups) video going!!

Junior M
09-28-2008, 11:23 PM
Well, enough Bobcat bashing, any more and I'm going to start dry humping the dent in my Cat's rear door (and maybe this time I get a hole in it)

C'mon Junior, let's get that 1BC3C (1 Bobcat 3 cups) video going!!
wow, yeah now we know what ron does in his spare time.. HAHA

Well let's get that 120 dollars from dirtman and that will pay for the fuel to get the p/u and trailer out of the driveway, and then we need to get ron down here with his video camera and all his technology to post a video and then we need to figure out how to send GR to antarctica just because we can and as a bonus we wont have to listen to him complain because he will get eaten by polar bears :laugh:.. and then yeah we need some cups and oh yeah an excavator.. so yeah I will jump on getting that rolling the beginning of my business day monday! :laugh:

bobcatuser
09-29-2008, 12:42 AM
"Smoother
Other brands claim they are smooth but are often just slow. Coupled with cushioned cylinders, Bobcat advanced hydraulics feature exclusive control valve systems that deliver consistent oil flow to all functions. This delivers smooth operation without sacrificing cycle times. Bobcat excavators are both smooth and fast, so you can get your work done more quickly.
Faster
True cycle times arenít measured in a dealer parking lot. Theyíre measured on the job, under load. Matching cylinder size to pump capacities, Bobcat advanced hydraulics deliver industry leading cycle times. Try Bobcat against other brands in real life situations, such as loading trucks, placing boulders or trenching. Youíll get the job done faster with Bobcat excavators."

So that still doesn't explain the near stalling in this vid, even Al Roy complains of it:

Stalling at 8:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxc2ZHBKXbU

The competition, Fast Trac Bobcat and Excavating with their Fast track excavator. I haven't met Al Roy before but I have probably seen him around town.

The 430 excavator has a 2 speed option that will do 5.5 mph, you can't have the best of both worlds with a machine like that.

I did watched the video and the engine never stoped?

bobcat_ron
09-29-2008, 08:40 PM
The competition, Fast Trac Bobcat and Excavating with their Fast track excavator. I haven't met Al Roy before but I have probably seen him around town.

The 430 excavator has a 2 speed option that will do 5.5 mph, you can't have the best of both worlds with a machine like that.

I did watched the video and the engine never stoped?


Not completely stopped, but he says somewhere in the comments that he backed off just in time.

bobcat_ron
09-29-2008, 08:56 PM
wow, yeah now we know what ron does in his spare time.. HAHA

Well let's get that 120 dollars from dirtman and that will pay for the fuel to get the p/u and trailer out of the driveway, and then we need to get ron down here with his video camera and all his technology to post a video and then we need to figure out how to send GR to antarctica just because we can and as a bonus we wont have to listen to him complain because he will get eaten by polar bears :laugh:.. and then yeah we need some cups and oh yeah an excavator.. so yeah I will jump on getting that rolling the beginning of my business day monday! :laugh:



Nope, I'm just gonna keep bashing Bobcats. Nice try though, Bobcatuser, at least you tried.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQoqjEcZlyA

mrsops
09-29-2008, 09:03 PM
Nope, I'm just gonna keep bashing Bobcats. Nice try though, Bobcatuser, at least you tried.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQoqjEcZlyA

ron is this you?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQBuDwq0wr4&feature=related

Junior M
09-29-2008, 09:06 PM
Ron did you not say if that could be done with a bobcat mini you would quit bashing bobcat?

Oh yeah, bobcat user I watched a couple of your video's how do you like your new t320, it looks like it will push some dirt with that blade..

Junior M
09-29-2008, 09:10 PM
mrsops, I have seen that video and I know some guys that that kid would put to shame..

CAT powered
09-29-2008, 09:10 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X59Peg0NgY&feature=related

Junior this kid is probably smoother than you on normal controls.

mrsops
09-29-2008, 09:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X59Peg0NgY&feature=related

Junior this kid is probably smoother than you on normal controls.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Junior M
09-29-2008, 09:17 PM
I have seen that vid before to.. and which controls? deere controls like I run or cat controls? If he is running cat controls I would say yeah he is.. but if he is running deere I highly doubt it.. I would post a video of me operating but as of right now I dont have the technology..

CAT powered
09-29-2008, 09:20 PM
Deere doesn't even use those screwy controls anymore, Junior. Only Bobcrap and the rest of the "mini excavators" which are just glorified digging shovels.

I'm talking about real controls. Right hand controls boom and bucket curl left hand controls the stick and the rotation on the turntable.

Junior M
09-29-2008, 09:30 PM
Well I am sorry I am not fortunate enough to have work big enough to use an excavator that big and no I cant run cat controls, that is what they are called if you didnt know, and I learned to half ass run an excavator on a 1994 331x, which in order to change controls on that machine you had to physically mess with hydraulic hoses, Oh and when I half ass learned then I was five and had no clue that there were two different sets of controls

CAT powered
09-29-2008, 09:38 PM
On every mini I've run there is a panel you can pop open that has a valve with a selector so you can choose "backhoe controls" which are what you are calling Deere controls and then they have "excavator controls" which are what you are calling CAT controls.

I know that on the minis I've run which were Yanmar and Hitachi the panel was below the seat and you could open it without any tools.

You really should make an effort to learn both styles of controls though. My JD490E had Deere style controls on it when I bought it, but I am more comfortable on CATs so I did have to have the hoses switched around. Just check for a panel like that on a Bobcat mini next time you have one around and if you can put it on CAT controls just put it on CATs and mess around with it for a bit.

Junior M
09-29-2008, 09:55 PM
On every mini I've run there is a panel you can pop open that has a valve with a selector so you can choose "backhoe controls" which are what you are calling Deere controls and then they have "excavator controls" which are what you are calling CAT controls.

I know that on the minis I've run which were Yanmar and Hitachi the panel was below the seat and you could open it without any tools.

You really should make an effort to learn both styles of controls though. My JD490E had Deere style controls on it when I bought it, but I am more comfortable on CATs so I did have to have the hoses switched around. Just check for a panel like that on a Bobcat mini next time you have one around and if you can put it on CAT controls just put it on CATs and mess around with it for a bit.
Oh yeah the 335 has a handle in rite behind the boom lock to switch the controls, I am going to make an effort to but every job we have got recently has been a job that needs to get done, no bs jobs that we seemed to have earlier this year where I didnt think to try and run them, but on that bobcat mini you had to actually switch hoses, and my dad told me that so I have a good reason to believe it..


Ok, well I have been trying to find a pic of the pattern selector in the bobcat mini ex's but I cant seem to get one..

CAT powered
09-29-2008, 10:01 PM
Yea. I've only run 2 minis or so in my entire career so I don't think I'll be getting pictures any time soon.

Dirt Digger2
09-29-2008, 10:04 PM
CAT powered i like your signature...haha...true

Junior M
09-29-2008, 10:10 PM
Yeah, I tried to find another pic but here is a link--http://bobcat.com/excavators/why_bobcat/comfort_cab


Okay well I can tell the link isnt working and I have just found out I dont remember how to make it a link, even tho I have done it before. but I think you will be able to copy and paste that in to your address bar and go there and then click on the picture of the cab and then click on the dot in the bottom right corner of the cab as if you were setting in the seat..

Dirt Digger2
09-29-2008, 10:12 PM
i dont understand what the heck you all are talking about when you say Deere controls, Cat controls, bobcat controls......

every trackhoe and backhoe i have ever run the sticks all do the same thing...like CAT said right is for bucket and boom and left is for dipper and rotation

CAT powered
09-29-2008, 10:17 PM
Dirt Digger in some machines like Minis and older JD excavators you had a different control pattern which is known by most people as Deere controls.

Basically Deere controls are CAT controls with the boom and stick controls flopped so that your left hand is rotation and boom and your right hand is bucket curl and stick.

Junior M
09-29-2008, 10:20 PM
Cat controls are what you run and what come standard in a full size trackhoe, and deere controls are what I run, maybe someone else can tell you what each control does because I cant remember what they do, I believe it is right is stick and bucket and right is boom and rotation, I am not totally sure about that though..

Dirt Digger2
09-29-2008, 10:22 PM
gotcha...so their like the wobble stick Deere backhoe controls...never had the "joys" of running one of those...i'll stick to CASE

Junior M
09-29-2008, 10:23 PM
Yep the exact same thing..

bobcat_ron
09-29-2008, 10:34 PM
Ron did you not say if that could be done with a bobcat mini you would quit bashing bobcat?


I did say I would, but only i it was done in less time than Dirtman's video.


ron is this you?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQBuDwq0wr4&feature=related

Nope, but my 6 year old nephew can do that on the 320 his daddy lets him play with though, it's really neat to see a child learn how to operate equipment like that.

Junior M
09-29-2008, 10:41 PM
I did say I would, but only i it was done in less time than Dirtman's video.




Nope, but my 6 year old nephew can do that on the 320 his daddy lets him play with though, it's really neat to see a child learn how to operate equipment like that.
Dangit! man I thought I had you on that..

I used to play on the 331 and the pc-45, when I was six, out in the field behind the shop just digging holes. It was really fun except backfilling, I was always afraid I would flip the trackhoe or something like that. haha.. I would have loved to play on a 320 when I was that young..

bobcat_ron
09-29-2008, 10:43 PM
Dangit! man I thought I had you on that..

I used to play on the 331 and the pc-45, when I was six, out in the field behind the shop just digging holes. It was really fun except backfilling, I was always afraid I would flip the trackhoe or something like that. haha.. I would have loved to play on a 320 when I was that young..

Here's the quote:

Do it with yours and get it on video, if you can do it faster and smoother, I will forever put my Bobcat bashing days behind me, I will make that my word.

Dirt Digger2
09-29-2008, 10:48 PM
if i can do it will you stop glorifying CAT????

bobcat_ron
09-29-2008, 10:59 PM
if i can do it will you stop glorifying CAT????

No, but I'll leave the challenge open to anyone.
Do the same thing that is shown in the video and do it faster than Dirtman's video, and I will stop bashing Bobcat.

That is my word, and where I live and how I work, my word is my bond, I do not make contracts.

Scag48
09-29-2008, 11:48 PM
We were talking about the cup thing at work today. We're going to man up a little and do it with a 400 instead of a machine that weighs as much as the bucket on the 400. Stay tuned for the outcome. I think all of us who run hoe, so there's 4 of us on the crew, are going to do it and we're going to time it.

bobcatuser
09-30-2008, 02:21 AM
No, but I'll leave the challenge open to anyone.
Do the same thing that is shown in the video and do it faster than Dirtman's video, and I will stop bashing Bobcat.

That is my word, and where I live and how I work, my word is my bond, I do not make contracts.

Ok, whats wrong with the video?
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=qQoqjEcZlyA

Junior M
09-30-2008, 09:25 AM
Here's the quote:
Yeah I understand that that is your word, and if i get it on tape you will quit.. I got that the first time I just forgot the part about being faster than dirtman's..

bobcat_ron
09-30-2008, 11:11 AM
Ok, whats wrong with the video?
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=qQoqjEcZlyA

It's still slower, Dirtman got right to it, instead of what you were doing, presumably getting back into the cab?

bobcatuser
09-30-2008, 06:10 PM
Take 2 was a little faster.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=9UAxFJg6VI4
Now lets see the other excavator videos, If I'm running second rate equipment you guys should be able to do it in under 30 seconds.:drinkup:

mrsops
09-30-2008, 06:30 PM
Take 2 was a little faster.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=9UAxFJg6VI4
Now lets see the other excavator videos, If I'm running second rate equipment you guys should be able to do it in under 30 seconds.:drinkup:

nice work bobcatuser... ron looks like you got shot down buddy

bobcat_ron
09-30-2008, 09:35 PM
nice work bobcatuser... ron looks like you got shot down buddy

Awwww, sh*t.

Junior M
09-30-2008, 09:38 PM
So does the bobcat bashing stop now?

Dirt Digger2
09-30-2008, 09:42 PM
i'm going home to work friday...if i get sent on a job by myself i'll show you how its done with a backhoe w/no thumb and CASE controls :drinkup:

mrsops
09-30-2008, 09:43 PM
i'm going home to work friday...if i get sent on a job by myself i'll show you how its done with a backhoe w/no thumb and CASE controls :drinkup:

now that's a test

bobcat_ron
09-30-2008, 10:00 PM
So does the bobcat bashing stop now?

It will fizzle down a tad, but I still wanna see you do it, Junior, then I'll make it official.

Junior M
09-30-2008, 10:05 PM
Mkay.. thanks! haha.. I am workin on getting a camera at or before christmas so I can tape my hunts but once i get one that will be one of the first things i do..

mrsops
09-30-2008, 10:06 PM
It will fizzle down a tad, but I still wanna see you do it, Junior, then I'll make it official.

ron you would be suprised that bobcat 334 is a real nice mini

bobcat_ron
09-30-2008, 11:37 PM
ron you would be suprised that bobcat 334 is a real nice mini


I like the Bobcat pilot control joysticks, they always felt so much more natural than the Cat pilots, but I hate the ventilation duct in the front, that's just lame.

bobcatuser
09-30-2008, 11:46 PM
I like the Bobcat pilot control joysticks, they always felt so much more natural than the Cat pilots, but I hate the ventilation duct in the front, that's just lame.

I allways run excavators with the window open so the ventelation dosen't bother me. If the window was closed ventelation might be a issue.

Gravel Rat
10-01-2008, 12:06 AM
I can't run a excavator with all the windows closed either I need atleast one window open.

qps
10-01-2008, 08:14 AM
We were talking about the cup thing at work today. We're going to man up a little and do it with a 400 instead of a machine that weighs as much as the bucket on the 400. Stay tuned for the outcome. I think all of us who run hoe, so there's 4 of us on the crew, are going to do it and we're going to time it.

You know Mr. C. since you've become a union operator you've changed your attitude somewhat about the equipment most of us own, I remember the bashing you took over the big wall job on the hillside, now your making us feel like a red headed step childen, what gives??? or is it not in your contract to talk to low lifes anymore...:laugh::waving:

AWJ Services
10-01-2008, 10:03 AM
now your making us feel like a red headed step childen, what gives??? or is it not in your contract to talk to low lifes anymore..

Mr Fancy Pants!:drinkup:

qps
10-01-2008, 05:02 PM
Mr Fancy Pants!:drinkup:

Exactly...Mr. I don't run anything smaller than a 400 now:weightlifter:

kreft
10-01-2008, 06:36 PM
hahaha. This is gonna get interesting!

Scag48
10-02-2008, 12:23 AM
Nah, I'll be back to small equipment when I go to start my own show after I retire out of the union. When you go and run 400's, D8's, D6's, 966 sized loaders, you don't really want to go back to the baby stuff real quick.:laugh:

qps
10-02-2008, 08:22 AM
Nah, I'll be back to small equipment when I go to start my own show after I retire out of the union. When you go and run 400's, D8's, D6's, 966 sized loaders, you don't really want to go back to the baby stuff real quick.:laugh:


the rest of us can only dream.....:laugh:

ksss
10-02-2008, 10:26 AM
Nah, I'll be back to small equipment when I go to start my own show after I retire out of the union. When you go and run 400's, D8's, D6's, 966 sized loaders, you don't really want to go back to the baby stuff real quick.:laugh:


If I could make big money playing with TONKA toys thats what I would do. I could careless how big the iron is, after the first hour its all the same anyway, show me the money.

Dirt Digger2
10-02-2008, 11:26 AM
it takes more skill to run the smaller equipment anyway...haha...anyone can hog dirt out

Scag48
10-02-2008, 05:31 PM
The 400's do a little more than just hog, we have 25 of the damn things. We do a lot of stuff with a 400 that should be done with a 200.

murray83
10-05-2008, 11:13 AM
400's are used mostly for reach on smaller jobs other than that its overkill.

As for a "mind of its own" I'm starting to dislike the Kobelco dynamic accera system where it adjusts to my "mistakes" might just be a lemmon but when doing fine grade adjustment i'll notice the bucket hop a bit and after 12 hours it starts to piss yah off a bit

bobcat_ron
10-05-2008, 11:37 AM
400's are used mostly for reach on smaller jobs other than that its overkill.

As for a "mind of its own" I'm starting to dislike the Kobelco dynamic accera system where it adjusts to my "mistakes" might just be a lemmon but when doing fine grade adjustment i'll notice the bucket hop a bit and after 12 hours it starts to piss yah off a bit

Oh crap, Kobelco is still using that BS "Fuzzy Logic" systems? What a joke that was, their big seller point was "it's the same system used in fighter jets in the Air Force".........yes, the ones that hit the ground doing 300 mp/h because it pissed off the pilots! :laugh:

murray83
10-05-2008, 12:15 PM
Yep gets old real fast not to mention at random my rpm's shoot up for no reason when swinging or digging in hardpan like say touch a decent size rock and up she goes

I dunno I can really do without these computer gadgets to make my life easier

bobcatuser
10-05-2008, 01:05 PM
How dose that work, I can't see what the benefit of having a computer make control inputs would be?

bobcat_ron
10-05-2008, 02:40 PM
How dose that work, I can't see what the benefit of having a computer make control inputs would be?

It's some kind of weird auto-learning system, it adjusts to your operation styles. If you want your stick to be the priority point for all the power to go to, then it will send up to 90% of all pressure and oil flow to it while you are loading trucks, Kobelco has (or had) pre-settings in the computer for even mundane tasks like compacting with the bucket, just pounding with it, so it would send all power to the boom force, other tasks like lifting, 100% power to the boom and stick, but in very fine increments.
The 210 Kobelco my brother has prior to 2003 was like that, what a PITA. After the pumps blew, it was never the same. Thank God for a strong Finning representative in our area.

murray83
10-05-2008, 02:44 PM
the dynamic acera system basically adjusts to you as an operator after a period of time and in turn is supposed to fix a human's mistakes thru the hydraulic system as ron said "fuzzy logic" the power boost mode is another pos idea as I gave an example to with the rpm's

simply instead of work modes on many other brands the machine adapts and adjusts to the hydraulic system

bobcat_ron
10-05-2008, 02:46 PM
the dynamic acera system basically adjusts to you as an operator after a period of time and in turn is supposed to fix a human's mistakes thru the hydraulic system as ron said "fuzzy logic" the power boost mode is another pos idea as I gave an example to with the rpm's

simply instead of work modes on many other brands the machine adapts and adjusts to the hydraulic system

Hitachi and Komatsu had modes like that too, but they abandoned them PDQ. Hitachi still retained the best feature, the Economy mode, very usefull.

That's one reason my brother liked Cat, it did everything we wanted it to, no stupid lame ass buttons to push.

murray83
10-05-2008, 03:13 PM
we have a 160 kobelco at work and one major issue seems to be hydraulic lines blowing not sure if its an isolated incident or its common on the kobelco's

Gravel Rat
10-05-2008, 04:18 PM
No it is common on Kobelco machines for hydraulic lines to blow as Kobelco uses higher hydraulic pressure than others don't know why but that is the way it is.

bobcatuser
10-09-2008, 02:52 AM
Some pictures of a rough grading job I did last week in the Rain. I hauled out 9 tandem boxes of dirt in 2 days.

Dragging the material to the back lane kept me busy while waiting for trucks.:sleeping:

Gravel Rat
10-09-2008, 04:55 AM
Holy crap thats lots of raking with a excavator :dizzy:

You have no other choice thats the way I would have done it too. Looks like nice brown mucky material. Find any hyperdermic needles :laugh:

Dirt Digger2
10-09-2008, 08:34 AM
they let you pile dirt on streets up there?....haha if we got caught doing that the job gets shut down instantly

bobcat_ron
10-09-2008, 10:56 AM
Wow, a ZTS and a small 5 ton dumper would have made a job like that easier for me, no way would I get caught dumping a pile on a road or back alley like that. Was that good topsoil?

Gravel Rat
10-09-2008, 02:46 PM
The laneway isn't blocked so I don't see a problem. The muni around here doesn't care aslong you clean up the mess afterwards and it doesn't cause problems with traffic flow.

bobcat_ron
10-09-2008, 09:29 PM
Some pictures of a rough grading job I did last week in the Rain. I hauled out 9 tandem boxes of dirt in 2 days.

Dragging the material to the back lane kept me busy while waiting for trucks.:sleeping:

Is this your website by any chance, your name on the side of the mini looked familiar, and I couldn't stop thinking about it all damn day.
http://www.stevesbobcat.com/index.shtml

Gravel Rat
10-09-2008, 10:40 PM
I'am pretty sure that is his website because in one of the pictures on the site shows a guy that looks the same as in bobcatuser's You Tube Videos :laugh:

He does a nice job you look at the pictures :drinkup:

bobcatuser
10-10-2008, 03:36 AM
they let you pile dirt on streets up there?....haha if we got caught doing that the job gets shut down instantly

That's why you have to be fast, Or just hire the city sweeper truck to clean up if there's a problem.

Is this your website by any chance, your name on the side of the mini looked familiar, and I couldn't stop thinking about it all damn day.
http://www.stevesbobcat.com/index.shtml

The subliminal advertising is paying off.

Ron, you were just thinking about a cold Sleeman:drinkup: all day.

Gravel Rat
10-10-2008, 04:07 AM
I heard Ron only likes Black Label or Pilsner :laugh:

bobcat_ron
10-10-2008, 10:44 AM
The subliminal advertising is paying off.

Ron, you were just thinking about a cold Sleeman:drinkup: all day.

I was thinking more along the lines as I've seen you and your equipment pass through not too long ago (like about a year ago or more) I was going one way, you were headed the other way, back when my T190 was still behind my truck.

If you ever see a white '05 F450 with a Cat on a GN trailer drive past on the highway, flip that person off, it might be me. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/tongueout.gif


Everyone else flips me off, it's kind of a ritual with other Bobcat owners.

bobcatuser
10-18-2008, 11:31 PM
I was thinking more along the lines as I've seen you and your equipment pass through not too long ago (like about a year ago or more) I was going one way, you were headed the other way, back when my T190 was still behind my truck.

If you ever see a white '05 F450 with a Cat on a GN trailer drive past on the highway, flip that person off, it might be me. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/tongueout.gif


Everyone else flips me off, it's kind of a ritual with other Bobcat owners.

Insted of flipping the bird we should form an equipment owners association, like they have on Vancouver Island.:canadaflag:

http://www.ieoa.ca/index.html

bobcat_ron
10-18-2008, 11:37 PM
Insted of flipping the bird we should form an equipment owners association, like they have on Vancouver Island.:canadaflag:

http://www.ieoa.ca/index.html

Nah, it's been tried here, we were part of the BC Trucker's Association back in '89, what a joke.

Flip me off anyways, I'd feel better about my decision to stick with Cat.

bobcatuser
10-18-2008, 11:48 PM
Some pictures of a shotcrete removal job in Vancouver last week. The city requires it to be removed minimum of 4' below finished grade. The rain was pouring, so it was a fun day as you can see.

bobcat_ron
10-18-2008, 11:51 PM
Was that a retaining wall system?

bobcatuser
10-19-2008, 12:04 AM
Was that a retaining wall system?

No, It was the top of the shotcrete shoring from the 30' excavation for underground parking. Southwest Contracting dug the hole and did the Shoring.

bobcatuser
10-19-2008, 12:39 AM
I went to the Bobcat dealer to pick up my new 4in1 bucket. The 100" light material bucket was calling my name so I had to get it as well.:hammerhead:

Duramax8832
10-19-2008, 08:54 AM
What size Bobcat is the light material bucket on? I really want one for my S 185 just not sure if it will handle it.

bobcat_ron
10-19-2008, 01:37 PM
Be careful with the combo, they bend real easy in the middle, grab rocks on the sides of the bucket if possible, I spent a day grabbing 24" rocks 2 years ago, I grabbed them all in the middle, the bucket has a permanent bend now.
The next combo bucket I buy will be one with a bolt on edge on the mold board part, that is another area that is weak on the Bobcat buckets, other than that, you'll wonder how yo got by all these years with out a combo bucket, increased digging power, better balance and wicked powerful clamping pressure.

bobcatuser
10-20-2008, 01:21 AM
What size Bobcat is the light material bucket on? I really want one for my S 185 just not sure if it will handle it.

I bought the 100" for the T320. I have a 74" light material bucket for my S185,it could push a 80" or 84" for snow or mulch.


Be careful with the combo, they bend real easy in the middle, grab rocks on the sides of the bucket if possible, I spent a day grabbing 24" rocks 2 years ago, I grabbed them all in the middle, the bucket has a permanent bend now.
The next combo bucket I buy will be one with a bolt on edge on the mold board part, that is another area that is weak on the Bobcat buckets, other than that, you'll wonder how yo got by all these years with out a combo bucket, increased digging power, better balance and wicked powerful clamping pressure.

I have a 68" combo on my S185. It would be nice to have 3 bolt on edges. There is some kind of relief valve that needs to be installed on the Carrier machine when using combo or grapple buckets, maybe you diden't have it when you bent the bucket?

bobcat_ron
10-20-2008, 03:34 PM
I have a 68" combo on my S185. It would be nice to have 3 bolt on edges. There is some kind of relief valve that needs to be installed on the Carrier machine when using combo or grapple buckets, maybe you diden't have it when you bent the bucket?


Nope, the factory pressures were all to specifications, I was grabbing 50-60 rocks that one day out of the fill I was dozing, it was also the poorly designed and weak quick attach frame on the Bobcat, it was bent 3/16" in the middle, that model size has had problems on the CTL's, they are now beefier on the 2008's.

bobcatuser
10-25-2008, 09:57 PM
How not to transport your new excavator.

This machine was loaded in a dumping trailer with the bucket resting on the front of the box when it hit the overpass. It must have been a expensive lesson with only 45 hours on the machine.:dizzy:

mrsops
10-25-2008, 10:00 PM
How not to transport your new excavator.

This machine was loaded in a dumping trailer with the bucket resting on the front of the box when it hit the overpass. It must have been a expensive lesson with only 45 hours on the machine.:dizzy:

That sucks what happens now can that even be fixed?

Junior M
10-25-2008, 10:02 PM
Wow.... that sucks!!!! That must have been a really low bridge..

bobcatuser
10-25-2008, 10:14 PM
The first picture is the foundation for a 12' wide house being built on a 14'x100' building lot in Vancouver. I'll get more pictures when it's framed.

T320 on a job in White Rock, building walking trails in the forest.

bobcatuser
10-25-2008, 11:01 PM
That sucks what happens now can that even be fixed?

The Bobcat dealer was checking it over, the insurance company will probably pay to fix it rather than a write off.

Gravel Rat
10-25-2008, 11:08 PM
Wow that machine must have been chained down good. Even thou its a Bobcat its still a shame to see a new machine wrecked because of somebody hauling a machine improperly. I don't know if I would trust that machine it probably has turn table damage.

bobcat_ron
10-25-2008, 11:24 PM
Wow, it's been years since I have seen that yard from SurfWood Supply, that sure brought back some cool memories!

bobcatuser
10-31-2008, 01:26 AM
Just some pictures of transfer truck that has been hauling soil in for the last two days. The owner just bought another new rig, $290K taxes in, I'll get some pics of the new one.:cool2:

Gravel Rat
10-31-2008, 03:52 AM
The transfer box on that truck is 25 grand alone it maybe 30 grand because its shiny. You don't see too many W-900L gravel trucks.

Those guys have a steady highway haul hauling clean aggregate and specialty sand. There is a few companies in Vancouver, one company has the maroon trucks Kenworths and Petes and another company has green Petes they are in Chilliwack.

bobcat_ron
10-31-2008, 11:18 AM
Mann Trucking, right in my home town, those dudes are loaded. I have yet to see a transfer box end gate with lights up there, that's real classy.

bobcatuser
11-03-2008, 01:26 AM
I guess having the lights mounted on the box eliminates the T bar for the clearance lights on the trailer, must have a second plug for it.

Some of the transfer trailers are getting elaborate with directional strobe lights, it must speed up the process not having to put cones out on a busy street when you drop the transfer.

bobcat_ron
11-03-2008, 10:20 AM
I know I've picked up a few cones in my time from those silly truckers.

stuvecorp
11-03-2008, 10:11 PM
Oh, I like! I don't like the 290 large though. I like that house in the picture, cool architecture.

bobcatuser
11-09-2008, 02:44 PM
This is how I spent my Saturday night, at least I got my 12 Hours on a tank of fuel.:)

I thought it was busy this summer, thatís was nothing compared to the rush going on right now. Most of the projects Iím working on now are being expedited for completion.

bobcat_ron
11-09-2008, 02:46 PM
Oh man, I'll bet you wished you had a Tilt Tach for that job!

bobcatuser
11-09-2008, 03:05 PM
Oh man, I'll bet you wished you had a Tilt Tach for that job!

It was too unstable to unload, we used a 40Ton crane to lift the front.

Junior M
11-09-2008, 03:08 PM
So what were you there for? I mean why did they call you or did it happen on a job on your on?

bobcatuser
11-09-2008, 03:30 PM
I was loading suspended slab shoring onto trailers, this was the last load for the day and the trailer jack didn't have pads under and it sunk on one side.

Then we waited 2 hours for the crane.

bobcat_ron
11-09-2008, 03:34 PM
With all the rain we had over the past 4 days, no wonder that trailer sunk.

Quack, quack, quack, quack.

bobcatuser
11-09-2008, 03:58 PM
I like to work inside when it's raining like that.:clapping:

Wednesday and Thursday was a gong show. I was digging for retaining walls between two houses in topsoil! The builder had two labors walk from the job because of the rain and mud.

bobcat_ron
11-09-2008, 04:46 PM
That's a scary pic, one reason I hate walking around job sites in the dark.
Imagine a long haired head banger, rocking out with his Ipod and head phones, backing up WOT while looking at clown porn on his Blackberry in that machine.

GradeMan
11-09-2008, 05:21 PM
Do you like tracks over the wheels on the skid,

Gravel Rat
11-09-2008, 07:04 PM
Lucky none of the load slid off :laugh:

bobcatuser
11-10-2008, 12:44 AM
Do you like tracks over the wheels on the skid,

I have Solideal OTT for my S185, it makes it a versatile machine to have.