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naughty62
09-27-2008, 07:00 AM
I am amazed that the big corps in the green industry have no not come up with a organic step program ,simular to scotts current progam for lawn care .Is it transportation and storage costs ? They have the resources ,money and market in place .I have a feeling that some one is gonna capitalize on a general ,organic lawn program for dummies .I live smack -dab in the middle of the farm belt, but yet have to travel 50 miles to get the organic base products .

DUSTYCEDAR
09-27-2008, 09:08 AM
cost and doing a 180 about face on there current products
but in time i bet they will

Smallaxe
09-27-2008, 10:08 AM
Still a lot of confusion and uncertaity with "organic products". Organics are simpler unless you want to replace a bag of 10-10-10 with corn meal, soymeal on a pound of N for a pound of N basis.

Once you adapt that idea you are done. Organics will always become more wasteful and expensive with that idea.

I am going to start advertising now for organic lawncare to avoid the high cost of fertilizers. Get better results at a cheaper price. I may get a bit of a problem on sandy soils, but I know it will be cheaper than 26-0-2.

Oh, the big companies will be out of the market because organics is largely 'buy local'. :)

ICT Bill
09-27-2008, 12:30 PM
I am amazed that the big corps in the green industry have no not come up with a organic step program ,simular to scotts current progam for lawn care .Is it transportation and storage costs ? They have the resources ,money and market in place .I have a feeling that some one is gonna capitalize on a general ,organic lawn program for dummies .I live smack -dab in the middle of the farm belt, but yet have to travel 50 miles to get the organic base products .

You kind of hit on it, Scotts and some others in different regions have sewn up distribution of products into retail, it has been jammed down the retailers throat for so long that is all that they know.
Distribution to retail is dominated by just a couple distribution companies, Arette, BWI, etc. Scotts spends a huge amount of money supporting that channel and the products make money for the distributor

It takes many years and tons of money on advertising in order to break into the channel, up where Smallaxe lives Milorganite has been doing business for many years and they still have not been able to go nationwide like a Scotts

You need to change your thinking on a bag to bag swap 24-0-8 to an organic 24-0-8, the organic one does not exist.

Read posts from several of the innovative folks on here that are using novel ways to feed the soil and produce fertile sites, that is what this is about FERTILE SOIL that supports whatever you would like to grow on the site.

being in the middle of the farm belt you have many many different inputs you could use to producr fertile soil, they are probably right next door. Instead of driving 40 miles produce your own

Feed the soil the soil feeds the plant

DeepGreenLawn
09-27-2008, 12:56 PM
what is frustrating is that there is so much talk of NPK numbers even with organics that it is really hard to break the NPK number system way of thinking... I have been implementing this for a year now with my customers and STILL am fighting that mentality...

Small, are you just using basic compost and CT?

ICT Bill
09-27-2008, 01:33 PM
what is frustrating is that there is so much talk of NPK numbers even with organics that it is really hard to break the NPK number system way of thinking... I have been implementing this for a year now with my customers and STILL am fighting that mentality...

I know exactly what you are talking about
If you want NPK put it in your compost pile you then get a really great slow release product

I am not saying NPK fertilizers are out, never use them again, what if you could reduce the use in your program by 75%.

Example, some folks on here spend up to $25,000 per truck load of fertilizer (depending on the make up), if you reduce your inputs by 75% that is now $6250, you now have $18,750 to use on making your own inputs. its a return on investment business decision, not an organic vs synthetic

Its all a matter of how you look at it

DeepGreenLawn
09-27-2008, 02:01 PM
I agree there... this year we were buying fert as needed from our suppliers... we bought our first pallet from Barry. That was the biggest order we have done so far... next year will be a whole nother story and I believe the costs of running a compost operation won't look so daunting when we are spending that much per month for fert alone...

Smallaxe
09-27-2008, 03:44 PM
what is frustrating is that there is so much talk of NPK numbers even with organics that it is really hard to break the NPK number system way of thinking... I have been implementing this for a year now with my customers and STILL am fighting that mentality...

Small, are you just using basic compost and CT?

Compost, molasses and Milorganite mostly, of course the recycled nutrients from the clippings. I haven't yet fired up the teamaker so haven't been able to play with that stuff.

I added a couple pails of woodash to my troubled terrace along with a drench of fresh manure tea.

That has been it. :)

treegal1
09-27-2008, 09:47 PM
Compost, molasses and Milorganite mostly, of course the recycled nutrients from the clippings. I haven't yet fired up the teamaker so haven't been able to play with that stuff.

I added a couple pails of woodash to my troubled terrace along with a drench of fresh manure tea.

That has been it. :)oh so like a 7-2-9 LOLOL,jk , maybe not far off. wood ash, you know that has been a good one to fall back on for years now, specialy on the veg's, simple is good!!

naughty62
09-28-2008, 08:30 AM
I am surrounded by coop agri businesses/ grain elevator .But most do not carry your basic organic lawn/garden materials .The products they do have contain unwanted mineral,salts and animal medications added.Good news is our county landfill no longer excepts plastic bagged landscape waste .They resently capped a large section of the landfill .but the mountains of accumulated compost contains millions of pieces of plastic garbage bags .Hopefully they will get it together and get certified/licensed or skirt laws and make compost availble for a load out fee .I am sure the worlds largest industry will push some type of product liability insurance down their throat .A few years ago a guy moved back home from the Des moines area .He offers a organic program and seems to be doing O.K. But for now I spread my 1/2 cu. yd. compost pile every fall and have to supplement it with one syn/fert/ weed control app.per year . I have only applied compost for the last 4 year but can real tell the difference .sooner or later someone is gonna catch on and line their wallet with green backs ,hopefully around here in hooterville .