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Superior L & L
10-02-2008, 10:32 AM
Some of our latest jobs

neversatisfiedj
10-02-2008, 02:12 PM
Very nice. What was the total for materials for the boulder steps ?

DVS Hardscaper
10-02-2008, 02:36 PM
Plant Selection Issues!


The first pic with the boulder steps:

a) The steps look nice.

b) The joints in the flagstone path at the bottom of the steps are WAY TOO WIDE.

c) Not sure if you did the planting, but those Emerald Green Arbovitaes should NOT have been used. Those things grow tall and they grow wide. They appear to be too close to the A/C units, the units need room to breathe. 10 years from now they will prove to be poor judgement in selection.

The second pic:

a) Along the path you have (2) Hostas on each side. 1) Always plant in odd numbers, never plant in even nnumbers. 2) There is enough bed space that I would not have used HOSTAS. I would have filled all of that planting space with colorful perennials of one, solid color.



.

Superior L & L
10-02-2008, 05:26 PM
The first pic with the boulder steps:

a) The steps look nice. Wow Tanks

b) The joints in the flagstone path at the bottom of the steps are WAY TOO WIDE. Customer requested "informal" i think real small joints looks formal

c) Not sure if you did the planting, but those Emerald Green Arbovitaes should NOT have been used. Those things grow tall and they grow wide. They appear to be too close to the A/C units, the units need room to breathe. 10 years from now they will prove to be poor judgement in selection. Yep we planted everything. they are about 2' away from the ac unit. emerald are a skinnyer arb and will work great there. also with limited trimming every year they will work GREAT and help keep the condenser cool in the hot summer.

The second pic:

a) Along the path you have (2) Hostas on each side. 1) Always plant in odd numbers, never plant in even nnumbers. 2) There is enough bed space that I would not have used HOSTAS. I would have filled all of that planting space with colorful perennials of one, solid color. Im not for sure cos i didnt design this one but i belive there is 3 on each side just not shown in the picture.Also the customer requested hosta so thanks but this is what they wanted. The back yard also has limited sun so our choices are a little limited.

My sales lady/designer has her Degree in Landscape arc so i know she knows what she doing. Now sometimes she has to have a "balance" between whats right and what the homeowner wants but she draws (all by hand) SWEET landscapes.

M&N Maintenance
10-02-2008, 06:03 PM
By the way hostas depending on variety will fill that space.

Captains Landscape
10-02-2008, 06:14 PM
Why do you post pictures and then reject the criticism? Why bother posting then?

-You should have used solid caps on you pillars.
-Radius joints around the fire pit are WAY to wide. Learn to cut your pavers to maintain interlock and so it looks good.
-Fire pit should have a mortared firebrick liner…..unless they never intend to use it.

DVS Hardscaper
10-02-2008, 07:39 PM
c) Not sure if you did the planting, but those Emerald Green Arbovitaes should NOT have been used. Those things grow tall and they grow wide. They appear to be too close to the A/C units, the units need room to breathe. 10 years from now they will prove to be poor judgement in selection. Yep we planted everything. they are about 2' away from the ac unit. emerald are a skinnyer arb and will work great there. also with limited trimming every year they will work GREAT and help keep the condenser cool in the hot summer.


Exactly :) And they,re not even mature yet! Outdoor units should ALWAYS have at least 30" inches around them. Sorry, but the emerads are growers.



The second pic:

a) Along the path you have (2) Hostas on each side. 1) Always plant in odd numbers, never plant in even nnumbers. 2) There is enough bed space that I would not have used HOSTAS. I would have filled all of that planting space with colorful perennials of one, solid color. Im not for sure cos i didnt design this one but i belive there is 3 on each side just not shown in the picture.Also the customer requested hosta so thanks but this is what they wanted. The back yard also has limited sun so our choices are a little limited.

Are you kidding??? There are probably at least 2000 perennials to choose from! thats the beauty of perennials! Dense shade?? no problem! full sun? no problem! dry soil?? no problem!


My sales lady/designer has her Degree in Landscape arc so i know she knows what she doing. Now sometimes she has to have a "balance" between whats right and what the homeowner wants but she draws (all by hand) SWEET landscapes.

Holy cow! I was looking at your profile and based on the pics I was thinking "they must primarily be a maintenance company...."

Superior L & L
10-02-2008, 08:10 PM
Why do you post pictures and then reject the criticism? Why bother posting then?

-You should have used solid caps on you pillars.
-Radius joints around the fire pit are WAY to wide. Learn to cut your pavers to maintain interlock and so it looks good.
-Fire pit should have a mortared firebrick liner…..unless they never intend to use it.

I can handle criticism, thats how you learn. As long as it constructive and not just someones personnel choice.

Our local supply yard does sell solid limestone caps but there $113.00 each and they stain and mark easy. The cap we built $28.00. I could see us going though 6 of them too get four good ones. I also think it would look better but im a big believer in the KISS method.

The gaps in the paver was a little consern of ours. I am for sure not going to cut every brick in the first four to five rows. I didnt want to waste 2/3rds of a circle kit just to get the last few rows of the circle kit but next time i will.

never heard of a firebrickliner ??? tell me more please. I think this will be fine. Ive done many of them like this and never had problems with bricks cracking, But id like a guarantee.

Mike33
10-02-2008, 09:28 PM
You cant trim arb. to look nice. Other wise i liked your job.
Mike

JerseyGreen
10-03-2008, 03:16 PM
Good work, i love those steps. I dont see a problem with those emarld's, I use them all the time to do what you did with them. I also trim emarlds all the time, and have been triming them for a long time, so yes you can trim them to look good.

DVS Hardscaper
10-03-2008, 06:10 PM
Any plant can be trimmed. Yes.

But....home owners seem to somehow forget to trim them. All you have to do is drive down any street where the dwellings are 10+ years old to see what I'm talkin about.

Also, plants are like kids. You cut their hair, but the kids keep growing! Same goes for plants, you can shear them all you want....but the branches and limbs continue to grow :) You have to use FORESIGHT when planting!

I'd say that 3 times a week I have clients ask us to do things that sound good, but based on experience - I know it's not a good idea, or that it's out of sequence of the principles of architecture. This is when it becomes our duty as competent professionals to educate the client.

Superior L & L
10-03-2008, 08:24 PM
I totally agree with the 10 year old landscape comment. Many people plant stuff and never touch it. You can plant something that should grown to 4' but if you never trimm it will keep growing! But we do all our designs based on mature plant size. Its funny when you see the new landscaper come into town and do these big "fancy" landscapes and in three years it all over grown and over planted.
You are also way right on the twigging out of shrubs. I belive trim them or dont trim them plants only have a 12-15 year life span before they get too bare or twigged out

crab
10-03-2008, 09:33 PM
DVS i would love to see some of you're mature plantings.

PatriotLandscape
10-03-2008, 09:49 PM
what block is that on the firepit?

DouginGB
10-03-2008, 10:39 PM
That fire pit looks big enough to not have used fire brick. As long as ya build a wide enough pit, I've never had a block crack.
Now if you are building an outdoor fire place, or a real tight pit, then there is no way i would do it with out fire brick.

POPO4995
10-03-2008, 10:56 PM
Good job Superior

Superior L & L
10-04-2008, 07:44 AM
what block is that on the firepit?
The block for the walls and fire pit is Unilock Brussels Dimensional

PatriotLandscape
10-04-2008, 10:43 AM
Thats what I thought. Unilock claims that the density of their blocks does not require a fire brick liner.

wurkn with amish
10-04-2008, 03:27 PM
Well If I still lived at my old house I could show you guys that yes fire brick is needed. I got Brussells to crack in 1 year in my fire pit.

DVS Hardscaper
10-04-2008, 04:13 PM
I'm not comfortable with using hardscape block for firepits.

Ya know, I'm not that old in age, but this is a subject where I have the Old School mentality. I believe if you're going to do anything pertaining to fire that it should be with true masonry or stone products lined with fire rated material.

I have yet to see government approved fire ratings for any hardscape block on the market.

From a liability standpoint - I'm scared of the stuff. If something happens 8 years from now, I could be held liable. If someone got hurt and an investigation were to be conducted, and it was determined that we used a product that wasn't certified to be used for fire related applications - I could kiss everything I worked so hard to get goodbye, even if the client insisted that we use it. As professionals - it's our duty to tell them "NO".

J.Z.Smith Landscaping
10-11-2008, 09:29 PM
all i can say is nice job. specially the fire pit, very nice. :)

kootoomootoo
10-11-2008, 09:39 PM
Looks like a lawn mowing guy did it....for the obvious reasons (to some)

Superior L & L
10-11-2008, 10:48 PM
Looks like a lawn mowing guy did it....for the obvious reasons (to some)

Well Ive been doing this for a couple of years fourteen total. The designer on the project graduated from collage 12 years ago and the foreman on the job has been doing this for over twenty years. So I would LOVE to know what is so obvious to some as to why a mower guy did this.

We do have mowing crews but they are totally seperate from the landscape & irrigation guys

Superior L & L
10-11-2008, 10:50 PM
all i can say is nice job. specially the fire pit, very nice. :)

Thank You, we just got word that we won a bronze award in the Michigan Green Industry competition for our price class

Superior L & L
10-11-2008, 11:01 PM
Here is a couple of another project we are currently finish up...............Ok im ready for the thrashing from the peanut gallery

kootoomootoo
10-11-2008, 11:23 PM
Thank You, we just got word that we won a bronze award in the Michigan Green Industry competition for our price class


I should say I am moving to Michigan ....but why you cant beat toledo and guys here in OHIO wouldnt enter it...whats the price class.

Superior L & L
10-11-2008, 11:37 PM
I should say I am moving to Michigan ....but why you cant beat toledo and guys here in OHIO wouldnt enter it...whats the price class.

Wow your a real classy guy thanks for your feed back........Michigan doesnt want you here so that works good. Dont worry about the price class

:drinkup:

:hammerhead:

kootoomootoo
10-11-2008, 11:43 PM
Wow your a real classy guy thanks for your feed back........Michigan doesnt want you here so that works good. Dont worry about the price class

:drinkup:

:hammerhead:

yOU CAN THANK MY "COLLAGE"
Same block from this year ...entered in the no class class.

Superior L & L
10-11-2008, 11:48 PM
Dont enter dont win

I did one very similar to yours last year. I will post some picks when i get to the office on Monday.

PlatinumLandCon
10-11-2008, 11:52 PM
Well Ive been doing this for a couple of years fourteen total. The designer on the project graduated from collage 12 years ago and the foreman on the job has been doing this for over twenty years. So I would LOVE to know what is so obvious to some as to why a mower guy did this.

We do have mowing crews but they are totally seperate from the landscape & irrigation guys

The columns don't look paralell, the flag path by the boulder steps is bad. I dunno, thats JMO

PlatinumLandCon
10-11-2008, 11:55 PM
Another little thing I thought looked out of place.

kootoomootoo
10-12-2008, 12:04 AM
............................................award winner>?

J.Z.Smith Landscaping
10-12-2008, 08:35 AM
i know! lets stop picking apart his work, it really is starting to get ridiculous. why don't we pick apart your work instead. :hammerhead:

Superior L & L
10-12-2008, 08:53 AM
The columns don't look paralell, the flag path by the boulder steps is bad. I dunno, thats JMO

Your right the columns dont look parrelle on the photo but we string lined them and they are dead on.

bakerc8
10-12-2008, 09:23 AM
did i say nice work

kootoomootoo
10-12-2008, 12:05 PM
i know! lets stop picking apart his work, it really is starting to get ridiculous. why don't we pick apart your work instead. :hammerhead:

It aint ridiculous. Its our livelihood. If you cant handle it stop giving the rest of us a bad name and stick to mowing. You have no idea how many quotes from other contractors get stopped dead in their tracks because I explain to customers the difference in workmanship....just by showing these pics.


ps they arent dead on.

J.Z.Smith Landscaping
10-12-2008, 01:14 PM
hey im not trying to pick a fight with anyone. Its my livelihood as well so don't jump all over that. actually i do have to say i should try the whole explaining to the customer the difference in workmanship. it seems like that would be a good seller.

DVS Hardscaper
10-12-2008, 01:15 PM
Your right the columns dont look parrelle on the photo but we string lined them and they are dead on.



The pictures show some serious problems with *flow*, *layering*, and *texturing*.

Its not the issue of "parrelle", nor is it the issue of "string lining".

The biggest flaw is simply that the pillars are not integrated with the wall. they are segmented. Also known as "chopped up".


I have to agree with the sales approach. In my presentation I spend about 8-10 minutes going over little details like this. I too use pictures.

I do not mean to sound arrogant, but all all respect, I certainly hope your "designer" girl is working as an intern.

PlatinumLandCon
10-12-2008, 02:01 PM
It aint ridiculous. Its our livelihood. If you cant handle it stop giving the rest of us a bad name and stick to mowing. You have no idea how many quotes from other contractors get stopped dead in their tracks because I explain to customers the difference in workmanship....just by showing these pics.


ps they arent dead on.

Agree with koo, if he says he's award winning yet does work like this I have a problem with that.

Think about it, 99.9% of the time people only post their best pics, so you have to think of what the ones he aint so proud of look like....:confused:. I admit, I've done a few jobs where I could have done things differently but you learn everyday.

J.Z.Smith Landscaping
10-12-2008, 03:36 PM
Agree with koo, if he says he's award winning yet does work like this I have a problem with that.

Think about it, 99.9% of the time people only post their best pics, so you have to think of what the ones he aint so proud of look like....:confused:. I admit, I've done a few jobs where I could have done things differently but you learn everyday.


yeah good point, I fully agree with that

YardPro
10-12-2008, 08:06 PM
Here is a couple of another project we are currently finish up...............Ok im ready for the thrashing from the peanut gallery

workmanship looks fine in this job, but i am not thrilled with the materials....

the rocks are too uniform in size and to rounded on the face...


oh yea, it's college, not collage...you also mentioned that most plands have a 12-15 year life before getting "twiggy"... that is only because most people in the landscape industry only prune with shears... VERY few can correctly hand prune....

if more people would learn proper horticultural techniques, they could sustain landscape plantings indefinitely for most species....

there is a technique called rejuvenative pruning.....

i also think that 2" from the AC is WAY too close for those arbs.....

i see LA's all the time draw designs that are ticking time bombs....

Superior L & L
10-12-2008, 08:34 PM
workmanship looks fine in this job, but i am not thrilled with the materials....

the rocks are too uniform in size and to rounded on the face...


oh yea, it's college, not collage...you also mentioned that most plands have a 12-15 year life before getting "twiggy"... that is only because most people in the landscape industry only prune with shears... VERY few can correctly hand prune....

if more people would learn proper horticultural techniques, they could sustain landscape plantings indefinitely for most species....

there is a technique called rejuvenative pruning.....

i also think that 2" from the AC is WAY too close for those arbs.....

i see LA's all the time draw designs that are ticking time bombs....

Thanks for being constructive and not just straight up bashing .
Thanks for the spelling help, Oh and by the way its plants not plands LOL

I also wrote and planted the arbs 2' away from the AC not 2"

The rejuvenative pruning is something that interest me and im going to talk to some state assoc. about it.

I also have to agree with the La's comment. Sitting at a desk is WAY different to how it comes together in the field. I find this even more true with hardscaping they just dont understand

jtruck618
10-13-2008, 01:50 AM
The pics with the large boulders......what keeps them from moving or falling? Are they stacked at an angle I guess? Im not a landscaper obviously.

YardPro
10-13-2008, 07:14 AM
Thanks for being constructive and not just straight up bashing .
Thanks for the spelling help, Oh and by the way its plants not plands LOL

I also wrote and planted the arbs 2' away from the AC not 2"

The rejuvenative pruning is something that interest me and im going to talk to some state assoc. about it.

I also have to agree with the La's comment. Sitting at a desk is WAY different to how it comes together in the field. I find this even more true with hardscaping they just dont understand


hand pruning is almost non existent.... we get guys that have 15-18 years of experience and when i hand them a set of loppers and a felco 62 hand saw and tell them go go prune.. they get a glazed over look and ask where the hedge trimmers are....

PlatinumLandCon
10-13-2008, 10:03 AM
The pics with the large boulders......what keeps them from moving or falling? Are they stacked at an angle I guess? Im not a landscaper obviously.


Thats the idea. They also lean back into the hill a bit. I'll post pics of my friend's house, now thats a boulder wall.