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MowerUp
12-27-1999, 06:12 PM
I recently got a price of $4107.50 for a Toro hydro with a 44&quot; deck and a 15hp Kohler motor. Is that a good price? What do you Toro owners think of the T bar design?<br>

MWHC
12-29-1999, 06:55 AM
I have used the Toro T-bar design for the last 3 years and really like it. Its real easy to learn and easy to control. The only thing I dislike is that the blade will stop sometimes. It is probably the electrical relay in the handle.

MowerUp
12-29-1999, 07:10 AM
How much did you have to give for your, if you don't mind me asking? Also, I have a rider ZTR Great Dane. What is the benefit of a walk behind in addition to a rider?<br>You said that your blades sometimes stop. I read that if you let go of the T bar the blades with disengage. That may be what is happening. Do you have the Kohler engine? WHat size?<br>

MWHC
12-29-1999, 07:53 AM
My Toro is a 12.5 Kohler, Belt Driven 36&quot;. I gave about $2600.00 for it new. I checked on prices for Hydro Toro's with 44&quot; decks. My dealer shot me the price of 4100.00. I think you got a good deal.<p>I don't have any rider mowers so I really don't know how adding a walk behind will help. Generally, walk behinds are smaller and you can get them into tighter areas.<p>I have checked to see if i am letting go of the handle (the operator presence deal) to see if it is user error making the blades stop. I don't think i am, I went so far as to tape the handles together and the blades would still stop sometimes. It doesn't do it often enough to really annoy me yet. I untaped it right away because I like that safety feature.

MowerUp
12-30-1999, 12:00 PM
Have you ever used the hydro verses the gear drive?<br>

jeffclc
12-31-1999, 03:09 AM
I was in the same situation a couple of years ago. I was running a pistol grip machine for years. My<br> hands were killing me at the end of the day. I had huge callouses between my thumb and pointer<br> finger. I went shopping, and found that most locally available machines had the pistol grip, with the<br> exception of the Toro, and Snapper loop system. <p> Personally, I prefer the T-bar over the pistol grip. I can run the machine one handed all but on sharp<br> turns, much the same as a pistol grip. Since I ride on a sulky, I like to slow the outside wheel when<br> making a turn, and find this easier to do with the T-bar. With the pistol grip, I found myself<br> &quot;reaching&quot; for the lever to slow the outside wheel.<p> With the T-bar, I can put my hands in a variety of positions, while still having full control of the<br> machine. I can use open palms pressing on the bar. I can squeeze the bar against the frame, either<br> on the top, or sides. <p> The one drawback of the system is when braking going downhill. There is nothing to &quot;index&quot; against,<br> and it can get a little bit tricky. <p> Another drawback is the operator presence, as it only deals with the blades. If you don't put the<br> parking brake on, the machine can take off if you bump the T-bar.<p> All in all, the T-bar is not perfect, but I do like it better than pistol grip. I don't think that I will ever<br> go back to pistol grip.<p> P.S. Is Scag now making a T-bar? I only ask, because I saw a T-bar on a trailer going down the<br> road, and it was orange. Either Scag has a T-bar, or someone painted a Toro orange.

MWHC
12-31-1999, 08:45 AM
I have never used the Hydro's in the field. I have tried them at the dealer's shop. They seem really nice but I can't justify spending the extra $$. A lot of the lawns I do are residential and I am forced to use 21&quot; mowers to get in the back yards. Any coments on the pistol grip system? I have checked into the 2000 Scags and they still use the pistol grips. I don't have any experience with the type of drive system. I also have small hands, would that make the pistol grip hard to run?

geogunn
12-31-1999, 05:48 PM
<br>MOWERUP--your orginal post was for a comment on the toro. my thinking is that the price you quote seems to be a premium price. in my area I saw a 52 (or 54) in lesco with a 17 KAW for $4K even. for $4.5K you could probably buy any gravely hydro wb on the floor. if you aren't sure what what you want, shop prices. good luck.<p>hello jeff--how are you getting calouses on your hands from the pistol grip? do you wear gloves? I've run a 48 lesco belt for four years now and my hands are pretty tough but not from the pistol grip. besides, I mow lots of the time where I only have a finger on the safety handle to keep the machine going. of course you have to grab hold of the grip to turn or hold it on the side of a hill.<p>I have a question for you or others on the T-bar control...how does that work when you need to raise the front of the deck to go over something, like a stob or a rock? with the pistol grip, you're in control for this. Iduno a thing about the T-bar. hope you can help. thanks happy y2k to all!!<p>GEO

Lazer
01-01-2000, 08:01 AM
The Toro Hydros used to be really jumpy. The new ones are a little more tempered. Toro uses a high-pressure, low volume system that makes the hydro valves difficult to precisely control like most other mowers. I've owned 20 Toros both belt-drive and hydro over the years and now We buy ExMarks. <p>I would buy another Toro again, but I'd get a belt-drive. Since ExMark engineers have altered Toro belt drive. (Spring-loaded pulley on engine to trans belt, 9 spline output shafts nd self-holding output bearings) Plus you can buy a 52&quot; belt-drive for under 3000.00.

ashlandscaping
01-01-2000, 07:53 PM
Iam wondering where you all that ran Toros are at Iam in chicago land area and Toros are not really seen around here. A few guys have them but bobcats, scags, exmark, button ,and great dane are the most used. I have used the toro both belt and hydro I would never buy one. But thats just my choose. I like the pistol grip a lot better then the t-bar. I feel more in control with it. As far as hands getting sore most like that means your haveing to pull on lever alot. So either your in to high of a gear or machine not inline with each side. My hands are only touching levers when turning other wise just kind of laying on top of handle. Most of my machine dont have safty features my guys discount them when they use the machine. So need to always have persure on handle. As far as hydro goes they are nice but i dont see that much need for them for the extra cost. All the big companies by me laugh at the thought of a hydro walkbehind. But Exmark make a nice unit as well as Great Dane.

MowerUp
01-02-2000, 01:56 PM
Ashlandscaping, <br>Why do landscapers around you laugh about purchasing hydro walk behinds? Have they ever tried one or they just a bunch of good old boys that don't like to change? <p>What do you own? I have a Great Dane Chariot.<br>Thanks for your response.<br>

Lazer
01-02-2000, 03:30 PM
Toro makes a pistol-grip mower as well, but they're not very common.<p>I've found the T-Bar better when you're walking behing the machine and a Pistol-grip better when using a stand-on rider (Jungle Wheels, Velke, etc.) Also, if you're using a stand-on rider, you difinetly want a hydro. On most machines, a hydro is no more money over the life of the machine than a belt-drive. (Purchase price, maintenance, salvage value) Plus a hydro is more reliable.

Bluesteel
02-09-2003, 01:15 AM
Oh, I agree. What do you think bruce32?

brucec32
02-09-2003, 02:36 AM
I saw one here w/ a sale price tag of $4199, so that sounds about right.

brucec32
02-09-2003, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by ashlandscaping
Iam wondering where you all that ran Toros are at Iam in chicago land area and Toros are not really seen around here. A few guys have them but bobcats, scags, exmark, button ,and great dane are the most used. I have used the toro both belt and hydro I would never buy one. But thats just my choose. I like the pistol grip a lot better then the t-bar. I feel more in control with it. As far as hands getting sore most like that means your haveing to pull on lever alot. So either your in to high of a gear or machine not inline with each side. My hands are only touching levers when turning other wise just kind of laying on top of handle. Most of my machine dont have safty features my guys discount them when they use the machine. So need to always have persure on handle. As far as hydro goes they are nice but i dont see that much need for them for the extra cost. All the big companies by me laugh at the thought of a hydro walkbehind. But Exmark make a nice unit as well as Great Dane.

I've used Toro T bars for years, and it makes a belt drive very easy to use. It takes a while to get smooth with it, but after you do they are superior to pistol grips in ease of use and comfort, I think. (pistol grips take a while to get the hang of, too)

You can drive with one hand technique if you want on all but sharpest turns, can walk BESIDE THE MOWER while mowing under low limbs with one hand, and it takes very little effort if adjusted properly, which takes a little experience to get right. I also like how easy it is to use with a Velke. After you are comfortable with it, it's great. You have dynamic speed control w/o ever having to shift. And you always have a hand free to shift if you ever do need to...no kicking knee levers. I have never had my Toro's out of top gear (I can't even remember if it's 4 or 5! ) except rarely to inch them up a steep trailer ramp in 1st. They're only really touchy until you get the hang of them. I nearly drove one into a tree my first time out. Now I can one-handed trim a circle around a tree and never touch the bark. They have been proven to prevent repetitive use hand injuries. They're also a plus if you have an injured hand, since if you can manage to push the bar lightly you can drive it enough to get some work done. No gripping required, really.

As for hydros, they are proven to be faster than belts even on wb's. They turn with much less effort, especially on hillsides, can counter-rotate tires for true zero turning (on the t bar at least) , have instant reverse for backing up hills, and can mow in wet weather, unlike belt drives. They're also faster in some cases. Maybe the big companies by you don't care about the fatigue or health of their employees and just want cheap, solid mowers. What's $1200 more in the life of a mower that may have 3,000 hours put on it? That's forty cents an hour. They also will require less adjustment (belts stretch and wear out) and will certainly resale for more, recouping some of the intial cost. Surely their improved ease of use and productivity is worth that.

To get around stumps or rocks, you can tip the T bar mower back by using one hand on the center of the T bar to propell and steer the mower, and push down on the support bar behind it to raise the deck. At least on the lighter decks you can. But I usually mow around them if possible to prevent accidental damage if the deck drops suddenly.

MWHC: I sometimes have the blades cut off at times too, I think it's from accidentally letting up on the operator presence control without realizing it. But it's rare and just hit the engagement button and you're back in business. I've never had one have a fault in that system in 11 years of use. I haven't even looked to see if it's adjustable. At most, it's an easy switch replacement if it's a part failure.

LAWNGODFATHER
02-09-2003, 03:05 AM
Originally posted by Bluesteel
Oh, I agree. What do you think bruce32?

that's pretty good there Bluesteel.

but I think he will be better off with the ECS Exmark. and more HP.

1grnlwn
02-09-2003, 03:07 AM
I have heard good things about that t-bar. Demo demo demo (parrot parrot parrot) Its not a steal, but if it works for you go baby yea!

Doc Pete
02-09-2003, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by MowerUp
I recently got a price of $4107.50 for a Toro hydro with a 44&quot; deck and a 15hp Kohler motor. Is that a good price? What do you Toro owners think of the T bar design?<br>

Well as owner of a T bar, Ferris, Bobcat and Hustler, it sure "ain't" the T bar that's the best.......
Pete

lsylvain
02-09-2003, 11:25 AM
Mowerup,

If you are in Northern NC think about running up to VA to check out prices on the toros.

In blacksburg, I got quote on a 52" t-bar hydro for $3900. I didn't check out the smaller mowers but if there arn't cheaper than that something is wrong.

just a thought.

Bluesteel
02-09-2003, 01:26 PM
lol

bubble boy
02-09-2003, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Bluesteel
Oh, I agree. What do you think bruce32?

:p

been noticing that too...habit now to check date of the first post of every friggin thread i read.