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View Full Version : "Thanks for not buying a Bobcat!"


bobcat_ron
10-04-2008, 07:21 PM
That's what I told one of my cousins today after he told me why he bought a new Deere 328 with pilot controls.
He tried a Case 450 and hated it with a passion. It was tippy, the cab felt like sitting in a dwarf sh*tter and it was loud. He couldn't get used to the H pattern and it wasn't available as Vertical Path, and to top it off, the dealership sent it out on demo with no added counterweights, d-uh, if you send a machine out on a farm that you know damn well is going to be used for loading wet corn silage, add them on. Idiots.

He liked the Deere better, more power in the lift and wider cab and better visibility.

The depressing thing is, he never considered a Cat 272C, he wasn't even aware of the fact that there was a 90 hp Cat skid steer, a part of me almost died, another lost soul wandering away from the Church Of Cat.

Funny thing, he tried out my Cat on the job, first thing he says is: "holy sh*t, this thing is quiet inside the cab, you can just barely hear the engine, and no hydraulic noise".

So I gave him the 10 cent tour, showed him the radiator design, he said right away that Cat's is the best, no double stacking and the engine bay is easier to get inside of, the sight lines to the tracks were better compared to the non-existent view lines of the Deere.

So, now he secretly wants a Cat, but the 30 day money back guarantee has also expired on the Deere.

Tough. :laugh:

But, thanks for not buying a Bobcat.

Gravel Rat
10-04-2008, 07:30 PM
Who sent him a demo Case machine ? Parker Pacific ?

You better be like a Jehovah Witness and start going door to door preaching your Cat religion :laugh:

bobcat_ron
10-04-2008, 07:32 PM
Parker sent it out. Brandt sold the Deere, and my cousin lost the the key, so the rep showed up at the farm PDQ after a brief text message.

Gravel Rat
10-04-2008, 07:43 PM
I imagine Brandt tractor got a machine to you cousin right away before he even thought about phoning Finnings.

ccstrebe
10-04-2008, 07:56 PM
and to top it off, the dealership sent it out on demo with no added counterweights, d-uh, if you send a machine out on a farm that you know damn well is going to be used for loading wet corn silage, add them on. Idiots. But, thanks for not buying a Bobcat.

Speaking of counter weights. How do you determine if they are needed or not? Is that wet corn silage Heavier than dirt?

CAT powered
10-04-2008, 08:00 PM
If the arse end of your machine is coming off the ground when you try to lift. You need counterweights.

ccstrebe
10-04-2008, 08:05 PM
Since I'm such a rookie, wouldn't that mean that you are going over the capacity of the machine?

CAT powered
10-04-2008, 08:06 PM
Yes that means you are exceeding the ROC of the machine.

ccstrebe
10-04-2008, 08:10 PM
So why have counter weights if you are exceeding the limits?

CAT powered
10-04-2008, 08:18 PM
You're exceeding the rollover capacity. If you add counterweights you increase the rollover capacity of the machine.

ccstrebe
10-04-2008, 08:30 PM
Ok, I see.

If the machine can lift hard enough to get the back end off the ground, why wouldn't the manufacture's just make the back end heavier in the first place? I never got my 450CT back end off the ground.

bobcat_ron
10-04-2008, 08:30 PM
Every farmer here (don't ask me why) buys a skid steer with the absolute biggest damn bucket they can get, I've seen a 753 with a 78" high capacity that even my T190 could not handle with topsoil. It has something to do with how much capacity equals the weight they need multiplied by how many trips to the scaled mixer wagon.
The Case tipped because it was at the max. reach, and it was digging up through the hard packed corn, and the first bit (after a harvest) is also wet as snot. Case's weight distribution was 50/50, Deere is better.

ksss
10-04-2008, 08:37 PM
That's what I told one of my cousins today after he told me why he bought a new Deere 328 with pilot controls.
He tried a Case 450 and hated it with a passion. It was tippy, the cab felt like sitting in a dwarf sh*tter and it was loud. He couldn't get used to the H pattern and it wasn't available as Vertical Path, and to top it off, the dealership sent it out on demo with no added counterweights, d-uh, if you send a machine out on a farm that you know damn well is going to be used for loading wet corn silage, add them on. Idiots.

He liked the Deere better, more power in the lift and wider cab and better visibility.

The depressing thing is, he never considered a Cat 272C, he wasn't even aware of the fact that there was a 90 hp Cat skid steer, a part of me almost died, another lost soul wandering away from the Church Of Cat.

Funny thing, he tried out my Cat on the job, first thing he says is: "holy sh*t, this thing is quiet inside the cab, you can just barely hear the engine, and no hydraulic noise".

So I gave him the 10 cent tour, showed him the radiator design, he said right away that Cat's is the best, no double stacking and the engine bay is easier to get inside of, the sight lines to the tracks were better compared to the non-existent view lines of the Deere.

So, now he secretly wants a Cat, but the 30 day money back guarantee has also expired on the Deere.

Tough titties. :laugh:

But, thanks for not buying a Bobcat.



Sounds like your cousin doesn't know **** about skid steers. The 450 has a lift capacity of 2450. Its a big, powerful machine but made for excavating not lift and carry as much. If he wanted to move silage around the 465, would have been a much better. If you want the counterweight on for a demo you should tell them that.

ccstrebe
10-04-2008, 08:45 PM
I see that they have provisions for counter weights on my 297c, do you think I should get them as a precaution?

CAT powered
10-04-2008, 08:47 PM
I can't see you needing them for what you do. If you start doing a lot of material moving then they might be worth it, but for just leveling, scarifying, and doing track stuff I don't think you'll be doing a lot of heavy lifting.

stuvecorp
10-04-2008, 08:52 PM
So why have counter weights if you are exceeding the limits?

I'm still laughing at that.:laugh:

ccstrebe
10-04-2008, 08:56 PM
When I'm doing track changes like building a jump or some other obsticle I could be moving a lot of material, but it would consist of a heaping seven ft bucket of dirt, would I need counter weights for that?

CAT powered
10-04-2008, 09:00 PM
Try it once. If you start to tip forwards you need counterweights. It really depends on the type of soil you have (amount of organic material etc.) the size of your bucket and how wet the material is.

Ausman
10-04-2008, 09:01 PM
If you add more weight to your alreaddy to heavy 297 you will pay for it in track life.

Ever seen the difference between a fat mans shoe and a thin mans shoe?

dozerman21
10-04-2008, 09:01 PM
[QUOTE=bobcat_ron;2541356]That's what I told one of my cousins today after he told me why he bought a new Deere 328 with pilot controls.He tried a Case 450 and hated it with a passion. It was tippy, the cab felt like sitting in a dwarf sh*tter and it was loud. He couldn't get used to the H pattern and it wasn't available as Vertical Path,"


Case has 3 loaders that are vertical lift. He should have tried a 445 or 465 if he wanted vertical.:hammerhead:

Deere's pilot controls flat out suck. I ran one recently and they are jumpy as hell and I wouldn't even consider one. The controls are too close and they bang your body. Even at half throttle those pilots wanted to jump an inch before you had any control. Full throttle I thought I was going to lose my mind. They are also only available in ISO which is a deal breaker anyway. To each his own on which machine is best for him, but it sounds like he didn't do much homework.

stuvecorp
10-04-2008, 09:02 PM
I don't know, do you keep the bucket lower? If you are lifting the bucket way up alot loaded maybe. For me the VTS keeps the machine rock solid when loading bigger trucks.

ccstrebe
10-04-2008, 09:13 PM
If you add more weight to your already to heavy 297 you will pay for it in track life.

Ever seen the difference between a fat mans shoe and a thin mans shoe?

I don't know, do you keep the bucket lower? If you are lifting the bucket way up alot loaded maybe. For me the VTS keeps the machine rock solid when loading bigger trucks.


Ok, that makes sense. Yes, I am keeping the bucket lower, I'm not going ten feet up in the air with a full load of dirt. And there would be no reason to add them as a precaution and have extra wear and tear on the tracks for an occasional need.

Thanks, I have been educated.

bobcat_ron
10-04-2008, 09:43 PM
[QUOTE=bobcat_ron;2541356]That's what I told one of my cousins today after he told me why he bought a new Deere 328 with pilot controls.He tried a Case 450 and hated it with a passion. It was tippy, the cab felt like sitting in a dwarf sh*tter and it was loud. He couldn't get used to the H pattern and it wasn't available as Vertical Path,"


Case has 3 loaders that are vertical lift. He should have tried a 445 or 465 if he wanted vertical.:hammerhead:

Deere's pilot controls flat out suck. I ran one recently and they are jumpy as hell and I wouldn't even consider one. The controls are too close and they bang your body. Even at half throttle those pilots wanted to jump an inch before you had any control. Full throttle I thought I was going to lose my mind. They are also only available in ISO which is a deal breaker anyway. To each his own on which machine is best for him, but it sounds like he didn't do much homework.


That's why he really (secretly) wants a Cat now.

ksss
10-04-2008, 10:01 PM
[QUOTE=bobcat_ron;2541356] To each his own on which machine is best for him, but it sounds like he didn't do much homework.


Well put. The CASE machines can be had in ISO. Sounds like your Cuz really had no clue what he wanted or his options. Sounds like he got the machine he deserved.

I cant believe you cant get Deere in H pattern. WTF is up with that. They go to the trouble of going E/H but don't put in a pattern changer? Bad plan on Deere's part. I wanted to run one just to try out the new controls, but if you cant get H pattern there is really no point.

ccstrebe
10-04-2008, 10:07 PM
If you cant get H pattern there is really no point.

Aint that the truth.

bobcat_ron
10-04-2008, 10:09 PM
[QUOTE=dozerman21;2541486]


Well put. The CASE machines can be had in ISO. Sounds like your Cuz really had no clue what he wanted or his options. Sounds like he got the machine he deserved.

I cant believe you cant get Deere in H pattern. WTF is up with that. They go to the trouble of going E/H but don't put in a pattern changer? Bad plan on Deere's part. I wanted to run one just to try out the new controls, but if you cant get H pattern there is really no point.

I do remember seeing the pattern changer as an option. I always have said farmers here think with their wallets.

dozerman21
10-04-2008, 11:41 PM
[QUOTE=ksss;2541565]

I do remember seeing the pattern changer as an option. I always have said farmers here think with their wallets.

I was told it was ISO by my dealer. It could be an option and since it's new maybe they don't know all of the nuts and bolts of it, although they should. I let them know what I thought of the pilots and how they should have at least offered the H Pattern. I know this is their first at bat with the pilots in skids/CTL's, and that they will improve over time, but for now they suck. Travel was smoother than arms/bucket but still not good enough. For some reason it seems like when I was turning in reverse it was opposite of a hystat dozer. I'm not positive of that though... I was too busy trying to get back to my CT332 with the servos!:laugh:

mrsops
10-05-2008, 03:52 AM
he should of just bought a nice bobcat s205 and all his problems would of been solved whats wrong with him ronnie :usflag:

bobcat_ron
10-05-2008, 10:27 AM
he should of just bought a nice bobcat s205 and all his problems would of been solved whats wrong with him ronnie :usflag:

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention why they avoided Bobcat, one of his kids is getting married to a son of the mechanic I use, and they refuse to work on Bobcats "because they are the worst machine ever to work on".

That and they had a pretty good idea as to why I drive past the farm with a Cat on the trailer.

bobcatuser
10-05-2008, 12:46 PM
I do remember seeing the pattern changer as an option. I always have said farmers here think with their wallets.

That's why he bought the Deere, It was the only option In his mind.

ksss
10-05-2008, 01:02 PM
That's why he bought the Deere, It was the only option In his mind.

YES, we have a winner!