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View Full Version : Go for it or play it safe...


Herrick
10-04-2008, 11:44 PM
Recently come across an oportunity to go full time and possibly quit the day job...

here's the situation...

Found an opportunity to bid a school district, total of 8 locations. Totals around 65-70 acres of mowable area. I've ran some numbers and have my bid close. This is a two year contract. I think this combined with my existing accounts and a reasonable growth expectation for next year will put me at or maybe just a little above what I'm making now at my 8-5. This would require the purchase of some more equipment, and I have a couple possibilities for help (cheap or even free). Not really worried about handling the large account. I also realize that these types of bids typically go pretty cheap as far as $ per acre.

If it was just me this would be a no-brainer. I am married with 4 children, oldest in second grade... Obviously my benefits mean a lot to me at my current job. I am also not very happy with my current job... typical corporate politics and BS.

Huge leap of faith... very possibly a big payoff, very possibly a big loss...

Any words of encouragement or caution?

DuallyVette
10-04-2008, 11:58 PM
Recently come across an oportunity to go full time and possibly quit the day job...

here's the situation...

Found an opportunity to bid a school district, total of 8 locations. Totals around 65-70 acres of mowable area. I've ran some numbers and have my bid close. This is a two year contract. I think this combined with my existing accounts and a reasonable growth expectation for next year will put me at or maybe just a little above what I'm making now at my 8-5. This would require the purchase of some more equipment, and I have a couple possibilities for help (cheap or even free). Not really worried about handling the large account. I also realize that these types of bids typically go pretty cheap as far as $ per acre.

If it was just me this would be a no-brainer. I am married with 4 children, oldest in second grade... Obviously my benefits mean a lot to me at my current job. I am also not very happy with my current job... typical corporate politics and BS.

Huge leap of faith... very possibly a big payoff, very possibly a big loss...

Any words of encouragement or caution?

Oportunity ??

a little more or less money.
Lowest bidder.
Buy more equipment.
using cheap or free help.
no benefits
wife & 4 children under 7 years old.

Sounds like a WIN to me:confused::confused::confused:

Flex-Deck
10-05-2008, 12:03 AM
I went for it. The last day on my "office" job is Oct 24. Went to full time mowing this summer along with the other full time job. It was a lot of long days, but well worth it. We are a one crew operation with 240 acres of mowing. My wife and I live full time in our 42' gulfstream RV, and at the end of the mowing season in Nov will be driving our house down to Mission Tx for the winter. We will return first of Apr to start next year mowing full time with no stress of the other "office" job.

coolluv
10-05-2008, 12:03 AM
Make sure you run all the numbers. You have to figure everything. I'm sure you have, but just make sure. If it is the same as what you currently bring in then I say go for it. It is easier to grow the business if you are out there everyday.

Only you will know for sure. When ever I get in a situation like this, I go with my gut. (and do a lot of praying). If its right, you will know it. Don't rush things though, patience is a virtue.

You only live once, you have to remember that also. Some people never make that jump. You also can't let fear stop you. Easy for me to say I know. I believe if you really feel right about it,and have gods blessing. You can not fail.

Dave...

Flex-Deck
10-05-2008, 12:05 AM
I went for it. The last day on my "office" job is Oct 24. Went to full time mowing this summer along with the other full time job. It was a lot of long days, but well worth it. We are a one crew operation with 240 acres of mowing. My wife and I live full time in our 42' gulfstream RV, and at the end of the mowing season in Nov will be driving our house down to Mission Tx for the winter. We will return first of Apr to start next year mowing full time with no stress of the other "office" job.

Thanks Brad

topsites
10-05-2008, 12:06 AM
You don't want to bid all of your eggs on one basket,
I personally have nothing against you or anyone else going
full time but the move you're considering is dangerous.

But I guess I'm too late and things worked out for you :)
Which, that's all right.

DuallyVette
10-05-2008, 12:21 AM
So...are Herrick & Flexdeck the same person ?????????

topsites
10-05-2008, 12:24 AM
So...are Herrick & Flexdeck the same person ?????????

Oh... :p
LOL!

I didn't even see that.
There's no telling if they are or not, thou.

So my original advice stands, that is a dangerous move to put all the eggs in one basket like that.

Herrick
10-05-2008, 12:30 AM
nope,not the same person...

I'm a number cruncher at heart, so before I do anything I know I'll go over everything 4 or 5 times... and it is putting a lot of eggs in one basket... it is a two year contract though. I see it as a stepping stone to be able to make the leap to full time... otherwise I'd have to work my way up to a similar income while working the office job at the same time... that jsut doesn't sound like fun.

hiringus
10-05-2008, 12:33 AM
Just remember a 2 year contract in actuality doesn't mean sh!t. If you drop the ball and they are unhappy with the results they WILL find a way out and move onto another company.

DuallyVette
10-05-2008, 01:07 AM
nope,not the same person...

I'm a number cruncher at heart, so before I do anything I know I'll go over everything 4 or 5 times... and it is putting a lot of eggs in one basket... it is a two year contract though. I see it as a stepping stone to be able to make the leap to full time... otherwise I'd have to work my way up to a similar income while working the office job at the same time... that jsut doesn't sound like fun.

Oportunity ??

a little more or less money.
Lowest bidder.
Buy more equipment.
using cheap or free help. Does someone NEED TO work for free, soyou can break even ? Is that a good deal?
no benefits- how much is health insurance for 6 people.
wife & 4 children under 7 years old.

Sounds like a WIN to me:confused::confused::confused:

Your origional post didn't seem to offer many (any) positives. You made some numbers add up, but you didn't sound like there was any sunshine. Maybe I missed something. What is there that's not on my list?

HOOLIE
10-05-2008, 01:26 AM
My opinion, you really want to make sure you're going to make a good bit more money...to make just a little more or break even is not good enough. You'll have more expenses running the business vs. the day job, plus the loss of benefits. The value of a good health insurance plan with 4 little kids is pretty damn high.

What you could do...find a couple guys to work for you. They could do the bulk of the work and you could jump in after work or whenever you want. If you can find at least one responsible person.

brucec32
10-05-2008, 01:49 AM
Keep in mind we're heading into a turbulent economic time.

Be sure to calculate the taxable equivilent income needed in business vs your job. You're paying 15.3% self employment tax vs about 7.5% FICA on wages and those benefits at the job come tax free.

Insurance for a large family isn't cheap and when provided through an employer the premiums paid on your behalf and by yourself are not taxed. Self employed only 1/2 the premium is deductible.

Do you have disability insurance w/o the job? You're many times more likely to become disabled than die at a young age.

One contract = all the eggs in one basket. You have to decide if you can handle things if it doesn't work out.

You should compensate yourself for added risk and capital investment. Making about the same income or only a little more would not induce me to leave a job now if I had a bunch of young kids to provide for. This is not usual economic times. It is like nothing we have seen since at least 1982.

PS. I would advise you to get ACCEPTED to a health insurance plan first before quitting any job. It is not as easy as it was in past years and they go back 10 years looking for stuff. It also is not cheap.

heather lawn sp
10-05-2008, 06:07 AM
We mow 150 acres a week at full speed, 37 schools, 4 Z's, 2 trucks, 2 trailers, 4 crew, since 2003.
Questions:

What's your projected acres per hour, per day?
What's your projected dollars per acre?
What's the equipment list?
How good is the equipment support system, both dealer and company?
(Can you fix a flat in the field in fifteen minutes?)
Have you ever done anything resembling this duty cycle before?
What's your competition?
How good are they?

Are you planning to keep the other small projects you currently have?

Are you good at politics? ( you got grass on my car, you frightened the children, can you stop until after recess, can you get it mowed before the pep rally?)

Can you charge enough to cover the loss of benefit plan?
Can you absorb an error or miscalculation?
(Honey, we lost $10,000 on the mowing bid this year, but that's ok we can take it from the kids' college fund?)
If it's a heavy growth cutting year can you absorb the increase in fuel consumption?
pm me if you want more discussion, good luck:waving:

heather lawn sp
10-05-2008, 06:43 AM
Make sure you run all the numbers. You have to figure everything. I'm sure you have, but just make sure. If it is the same as what you currently bring in then I say go for it. It is easier to grow the business if you are out there everyday.

Only you will know for sure. When ever I get in a situation like this, I go with my gut. (and do a lot of praying). If its right, you will know it. Don't rush things though, patience is a virtue.

You only live once, you have to remember that also. Some people never make that jump. You also can't let fear stop you. Easy for me to say I know. I believe if you really feel right about it,and have gods blessing. You can not fail.

Dave...

You only live twice or so it seems,
one life for your self
and one for your dreams

mattfromNY
10-05-2008, 08:02 AM
Cheap, or even FREE help?
Every school/ govt agency around here requires proof of insurance, including W/C on ALL employees (Yes, even the owner, if he is to step foot on the property) Not sure how you'd get insurance for a FREE worker.
Maybe you know something I've overlooked, but make sure you do things legit or it may come back to bite you.

Big C
10-05-2008, 08:23 AM
Punt......

Charles
10-05-2008, 08:39 AM
I agree with some here. Keep your day job! You can't take a chance with 4 kids. You have a big responsibility to them more than keeping yourself "happy" at work. Health care bennies are invaluable with a big family like that as well as a dependable long term income for the many other expenses. Lesson learned here is to find something you love doing and then have a big family if that's what you want. Nothing is a sure thing when it comes to mowing lawns. As they say, the grass is always greener on the other side:rolleyes:

ALC-GregH
10-05-2008, 09:28 AM
It sounds kinda risky. I'm in a different situation. I have 1 child and my wife has the job with the benefits. Now if we had 4 small children, I'd think twice about jumping in head first and losing the benefits if I'm the one holding them.

Does your wife work? I'd guess with 4 kids she doesn't.

mississippiturf
10-05-2008, 09:34 AM
As you crunch the numbers, my advice would be to consider things such as:
Do you have the capital to purchase additional equipment?
What about paying workman's comp, taxes, and licenses?
Do you have a safe place to store all the equipment?
There will be costs associated with adminstrative fees (software, CPA, etc.)
Also you need to figure costs such as gas, oil, trimmer line, blades, vehicle and equipment maintenance.

Now don't get me wrong, I hope if this is what you want to do that the numbers work in your favor. I've just seen far too many incidents where a lot of the costs associated with running a legitimate LCO were not figured into the original thinking process.

Good luck.

AI Inc
10-05-2008, 09:39 AM
Curious here, why quit the real job just before winter?

whoopassonthebluegrass
10-05-2008, 11:03 AM
This could go either way. If you're a man who's driven to succeed, going out on your own could be a great solution. But if you're complacent and move through life with cruise control on... then it's probably a mistake.

I will say that making a living with your body instead of your brain limits your long term productivity... just something to keep in mind.

As for you, Charles: :laugh::laugh::laugh:
I agree with some here. Keep your day job! You can't take a chance with 4 kids.

I have 4 kids! And I'm a lawn guy! While nothing's set in stone, I've experienced modest success and greater employment-stability than many others I know who work for "The Man". There are certainly risks... but greater risks often equate to greater rewards. I have a big home, a few acres, and enjoy life. It's not without its stresses... but it's better than I'd otherwise be doing in a corporate environment.

Just my two cents.

LwnmwrMan22
10-05-2008, 11:11 AM
Just a reply, so it'll come up in my email later when I get back from church.

I can tell you right now, that the bid on that school project is low. Don't think you're going to low bid it again and make much money on it.

I'll reply later with my Paul Harvey, "The REST of the story".

Gotta get the shoes on the 2 boys right now.

alwaysgreener
10-05-2008, 11:12 AM
Get the signed contract first then make up your mind.. A bid is nothing we bid all the time in this industry and sometimes you win them and sometimes you lose. Is there snow removal included with this bid?? If not what are you going to do during the winter?

MOturkey
10-05-2008, 12:37 PM
Herrick, let me tell you a little about my situation, then I'll give you my advice, for what little it is worth. I'm 57. I've been eligible for full retirement benefits since May 17th. For the past 10 years, bascically all I have done is wait for that date to roll around, thinking I'd be gone from my job in a heartbeat. Well, it is now October, and I'm still working, simply because the rate of inflation and the situation with the economy kept me from pulling the trigger.

I can draw a retirement of approximately 75% of what I make annually. My house is paid for. My vehicles are paid for, but one is a 96. My mowing equipment is all paid for. The only thing in the world I owe for is a new dishwasher we bought from Sears last week, and the only reason I owe for that is because they had the one year/ no interest deal going so I put it on the card.

I can get retirees insurance (I'm a Teamster) for myself for $320 a month, but the coverage is not as good as what we now have, which is practically all paid for by the dairy. I'm healthy, although overweight. Just had some lab work done, and everything came back normal, even my cholesterol and triglycerides, and I about live on red meat and fried foods. :)

I am growing to hate my job. It is physically, as well as mentally, stressful, and more so as one ages. A route change is imminent, which will once again have me working approximately 50 hours per week. I, just barely, made it through peak of the mowing season this year, getting by many nights with 4 hours sleep. Now, all this wasn't bad, when I was in my 30's, but don't let anyone tell you different: Age will change lots of things, including your perspective. I don't believe I can handle another mowing season like this one, and keep my job. I can't give up the mowing, because when I do retire, I will need the extra income. A Catch 22 situation for sure.

I went into route sales in 1973, working for the now defunct Foremost Dairies. IF I had stayed in Teamsters, I would have now been retired over 5 years, with 30 years instead of 25. My pension would be about $7,000 a year more, because the accrual of benefits was reduced after the market plunge caused by 9/11 events. My health insurance would be less, because everyone who retired before then only pay something like $200 a month. And, I'd have been 5 years younger, and more able to build a larger mowing business than I am now, all things being equal.

I will retire relatively soon, because I have little to risk, and think we will be fine as long as I can earn on the side to pay our medical insurance, and medical expenses, which will probably run around $6,000 a year, on the average. In other words, it should be really easy for me to retire, but I'm still a little hesitant.

Now, for the advice. If I had a decent job (don't have a clue what type of work you do), that had decent benefits, plus had 4 young children (Ours are all grown. I have 2, my wife 3, and all are doing well, 3 of them making more money than I ever have!), there is no way I'd quit and go into self-employment full time, unless, and there is always a caveat, your skills/ training/specialty is such that finding another job, in the event things don't work out as planned, would not present a problem.

My advice is simple. Stay with the job. Do as well as possible with the lawn business. If you feel you can expand, as others have suggested, consider hiring someone to carry the bulk of the load. If that isn't an option, work your tail off yourself for the extra money the lawn business will provide. I don't know how old you are, but with young children, I'm guessing in your late 20's or early 30's. When I was in my 30's and 40's, I was running a 60 hour milk route, plus helping my wife run a convenience store, and didn't really think much of it.

Whatever your decision, I wish you the best of luck. Neill

LwnmwrMan22
10-05-2008, 04:35 PM
Okay, I'm back from church, and after reading MOturkey's response (VERY well written) would like to add mine.

I've been doing this job since I was 16, I am now 35. It's really the only real job I've ever had, obviously. This is my 20th year, and I've been working 60-80 hours per week for the last 5-8 years, hoping to get ahead, hoping to cross that threshold into where I can have the people working for me, hoping to run the business, not have the business run me.

This summer I broke my foot (Solo op, broke my foot thread) and had to hire some people to do my job. At one point I had 4 guys working for me. It also took another company doing 8 yards per week to do what I was doing in 70 hours per week. My point is that well laid plans hardly ever run smoothly. Nor will anyone ever work as hard at your job as you do.

I too had cheap and free labor to help for a period of time, because alot of the relatives came out of the woodwork to help me out until I could get back on my feet. But that cheap / free labor WILL dry up. You WILL have to pay wages / insurances.

You're much better off figuring on paying those wages and insurances from the get-go. If you don't, it WILL bite you in the butt. Right now I'm down to 2 guys working for me almost full time to finish out the season. I could PROBABLY get by with just 1 guy, but I know I couldn't get back to doing all the work myself because my foot still starts to ache after 5-6 hours of walking on it. It costs me about $1250 per week to keep these guys. This is after wages, payroll taxes, work comp and windshield time. Not to mention that in the last 2 weeks I've had 2 windows broken and 2 tires slashed on the ZTRs.

I can't blame for the windows being broken, accidents obviously, but the sidewalls on the tires being slashed are just carelessness of trying to get too close to things when you have to trim them anyways.

With that said, next year, we've already turned in a contract on picking up 19 parks, 12 liftstations, city hall and a library for the local town. I'm trying to keep these 2 guys on board so I have workers for next year, because I've already been down the road in the past with piss poor workers.

You'd be better off to stay where you're at with the job you have. You can take on an employee if you pick up some work and train them, you can add another employee as you add more work. Once you get enough work that you can live off of what that business is making, then worry about quiting your current job. If you don't want to wait that long, then quit when you can work part time at doing something else you like, as well as working the lawns part time.

Don't quit your day job, until you KNOW your night job can support you full time, not if you THINK the numbers work.

As I said when I started this thread. This is my 20th year, will a well built reputation in the area, and even I'm nervous about these upcoming years.

It's not so much the customers not paying, as much as people with a lawn mower bidding stuff too low just to make a house payment, or put gas in the car. But that's been said for years anyways. So take that with a grain of salt.

Herrick
10-05-2008, 10:03 PM
This site truely is a wealth of information... it's funny all the little things you can overlook...

Some of the details of the job... around 70 acres, I was trying to get my bid to around $20-25 an acre, figuring 2 acres per hour... I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I believe my number was around $50k per year. Bid was to be based on 27 cuts a year per the specs. There were no insurance requirements in the specs oddly, and I actually called the school to ask about it... lady I talked to indicated that this was apparently the first time they've let it for bids this way... she was going to check with another person on the requirements. I wouldn't even dare thinking about touching this type of work without some really good insurance coverage. Way too much liability.

As for my personal situation... My wife actually does work part time at our local Wal-Mart. I work at an architectural firm as a CADD Technician/Construction Administration person. I am one of the few people in our office without a professional degree. Been there over 8 years. Basically I'm one of a hand full of office b!tches that get to do whatever the boss decides is most important that day. Very frustrating and degrading, and at the end of the day I have to realize that more than likely I'm not going anywhere in this job. I watch kids out of college come into our firm and start off making $15k/year more than me. (Good plug for anyone in school right now... GO TO COLLEGE!! I don't care what it's for, but you will always get taken more seriously with that silly piece of paper that says you went to school) Right now I make (gross) $39k. Out of my check I pay my usual taxes (which honestly isn't much, thanks to 4 kids) plus around $400/month for the company health insurance. From the research I've done, it looks like I can get a comparable policy for around $750/month outside work.

One of the things I forgot about was the increase in social security and Medicare taxes when you work for yourself. Another was the company match on my 401k plan. I figured with some good advertising and me pounding the pavement a little this winter I could add to my current accounts and get at least $20k/year in other accounts. Right now I have about $13k. These are all gross numbers. I have the equipment listed in my sig currently, with the Deere and the truck being the only things I owe currently on. I would not quit work until next spring. Nothing to do until then anyway. I would probably look at buying another mid mount ztr, and another trimmer, maybe a nice but used of each for backups. My help would be between my wife (possibly quit her job to help me-free), parents (mom retired, dad close-free), and maybe some friends (cheap).

One thing I would love to figure out is how to hire enough help to do the work, leaving me enough to make a few bucks on the deal, while I'm at my job. Everything I've heard is that employees are lazy and unreliable. I wouldn't have the time to sit and babysit them all the time, and I think finding someone who I could trust to run the crew would be pretty darn hard.

Personally, I like to dream big. Always have a plan, planning for the worst, hoping for the best. I try to be realistic, although I have to admit that when it's something I want pretty bad, I can twist things to make them look good. I can also tend to get in over my head, although I'm not one to let people down, I usually find a way to get it done. I also tend to over think things.

My family means the world to me. Most days they are the only reason for me to get up in the morning and get my butt to work. I've got two girls, in first and second grade, and twin boys that are 15 months old. I originally started the business last year when my wife had to quit work for a long period because of her pregnancy with the boys. It helped fill in when her paycheck wasn't there.

I guess I'm at that crossroads trying to figure out if all this busting my tail after work is for something bigger, or if I should stick to my 15 accounts after work and be glad for some extra money.

whoopassonthebluegrass
10-05-2008, 10:05 PM
Herrick: if you're only pulling $39k, you sure ain't got much to lose! Yikes! I don't know how you lasted this long!

LwnmwrMan22
10-05-2008, 10:20 PM
Herrick: if you're only pulling $39k, you sure ain't got much to lose! Yikes! I don't know how you lasted this long!

I've got a guy that I'm paying $16.25 / hour right now. His take home pay is close to $30k working for ME, looks like you need to look for a different job, let alone go full time into lawn care.

No wonder you're looking out for yourself.

About that school bid, you'll soon realize that alot of accounts of that size will go for about $20 / acre +/-. Some more, some less, but schools are usually low bid, and if you've got some retired people around there, they can go pretty low.

That means that your 70 acres will go for probably no more than $1500 per cut, hopefully on a flat fee (seasonal) so you can make some money with a dry summer by getting paid to not do anything.

Before I did that though, I'd look into getting the accounts that you have set up on a flat fee year around. Instead of getting another ZTR, get a plow for your truck. Take however many accounts you have and get them set up on a $200-400 monthly fee. Do the fertilizing, spraying, mulch work, etc. Right there you'd have a guaranteed income close to what you're making now, if not more.

If they won't go for it, find accounts that will. It took me 20 years to get to the accounts that I have now, but I can gross $120k+ working solo, yearly.

I'm hiring guys now though, because I'm tired of working 50-60-70-100 hours per week, depending on what time of what season it is.

This way you're also not putting all your eggs in one basket with the school district. Find small to mid sized commercial properties, where a crew of 3 guys can't do it much more efficient than you can with yourself and maybe your wife. You can be just under their price and you can make some real decent money, again, if you find the right accounts.

School districts will not be big money makers.

Herrick
10-06-2008, 12:48 AM
I actually picked up a plow for my truck a few weeks ago, still have to get it mounted... but one step ahead of you there.

Not really interested in getting into the fert and squirt... I do have another company that I refer that stuff to. A lot of my current accounts are just the mow n blow type stuff. I have done quite a bit of additional stuff this year though... about 25 yards of mulch, couple of big hedge jobs, plus some one time services for people on vacation... oh and firewood is just getting going for me... lots to keep me busy... I guess I'm looking at the school district as a "bread n butter" type job... something to make sure that there is a substantial check at least coming in.

Lots to think about... more numbers to crunch...

delphied
10-06-2008, 08:25 AM
I wouldnt trade a good job with bennies because of typical corporate BS and politics. Basing your success on a bid that may only last 2 years would be foolish IMHO. It would also be irresponsible with regard to the family which you probably have already commited to I hope. This line of work is best as a sideline IMHO. Sorry to tell you what you dont want to hear but I would feel irresponsible myself if I didnt.

jtruck618
10-06-2008, 01:08 PM
You plan on keeping health insurance? Looking at lots of money every month. I would be very careful.

DuallyVette
10-06-2008, 09:13 PM
You plan on keeping health insurance? Looking at lots of money every month. I would be very careful.


If you don't have health insurance,and you're injured or sick, who would you call to get your coverage DENIAL statement from ? :)

LwnmwrMan22
10-06-2008, 09:53 PM
If you don't have health insurance,and you're injured or sick, who would you call to get your coverage DENIAL statement from ? :)

My wife is an RN in a clinic. She's with one of the larger systems here in MN.

Our family health insurance is $150 per month, full coverage.

Anyways, August 3rd I broke my foot at home on a Sunday.

We've been fighting to get a $7,000 hospital bill paid for, they keep saying it's work related and I need to turn it into work comp.

Also, they've refused to pay for follow up visits so far.

I was wearing work clothes with the company name on them when I went to the hospital. Someone somewhere must have noted that on the report.

I wear clothes for work around the house on weekends when I'm working in the garage, etc.

Finally we told the insurance company what difference would it make had I been cross dressing and wearing my wife's scrubs? They were clothes, I was not working.

Herrick
10-06-2008, 10:28 PM
Gotta love the insurance companies...

And for the record, I will NOT go without health insurance. I have that figured in. I'm not willing to take a chance with my nor any of my family's health over a career change. End of story.

lil_cote_93
10-06-2008, 10:50 PM
benefits are huge

DuallyVette
10-06-2008, 11:52 PM
My wife is an RN in a clinic. She's with one of the larger systems here in MN.

Our family health insurance is $150 per month, full coverage.

Anyways, August 3rd I broke my foot at home on a Sunday.

We've been fighting to get a $7,000 hospital bill paid for, they keep saying it's work related and I need to turn it into work comp.

Also, they've refused to pay for follow up visits so far.

I was wearing work clothes with the company name on them when I went to the hospital. Someone somewhere must have noted that on the report.

I wear clothes for work around the house on weekends when I'm working in the garage, etc.

Finally we told the insurance company what difference would it make had I been cross dressing and wearing my wife's scrubs? They were clothes, I was not working.


People who work in health-care, usually have excellent coverage (as far as that goes). The $150 per month that you pay, is most likely a FRACTION of what a person would pay in the free market.

As for the $7,000 hospital bill...They discriminate. Once upon a time, I cut my finger and needed stitches. I paid $220 (a long time ago) at a ProMed. Several months later, I cut my finger. I went to the ProMed...I was wearing a company shirt...She said that she'd bill me, even though the sign in the waiting room said "due upon service rendered". I got the bill...$380.00. I called, she said That was the workers comp rate. I told her that that if they wanted to be paid, they needed to reduce the rate to the "poor dumb as* rate". She agreed, and I carried her a check. Now I hear that a walk-in without insurance gets the SUPER huge RATE. Screw me to cover the deadbeats.

Article in Sundays paper: Insurance companies are sending clients to India ( among other countries) for surgery to save BIG BUCKS. You actually get dedicated doctors who aren't in a hurry to rush you through so they can bring in enough $$ to pay outrageous expenses,insurance, lawyers, and Tee times. In the USA everyone that isn't cured is supposed to win the lottery, or so they think. It must be someone Else's fault !!!

DuallyVette
10-07-2008, 12:02 AM
Gotta love the insurance companies...

And for the record, I will NOT go without health insurance. I have that figured in. I'm not willing to take a chance with my nor any of my family's health over a career change. End of story.


That sounds really Noble. If I had a family (that I liked) I would probably let the system rape me and give them a false sense of security. Feed the monster !!!

topsites
10-07-2008, 12:08 AM
In the real world, it is common place to depend on one job to sustain ourselves,
that is, to have one employer on whom we count on to support us, and we work
for the man as an employee.

But in business we can not, and should not depend on one customer to make or break us,
it is unfortunate but in so doing they will break us, I believe it is human nature one but from
the customer's side of the fence it's not of bad intent.

Just remember a 2 year contract in actuality doesn't mean sh!t. If you drop the ball and they are unhappy with the results they WILL find a way out and move onto another company.

Right, and in the meantime since all the company's eggs ARE in this basket
all this customer has to do is say jump and you ask how high?
That is only just the beginning...

Soon they catch on, customers love to see a company so dependent on them, not so much because they can jerk us around
but because it means a TON of service for next to nothing, because there's nothing you can do but from their side of the fence
it's just a bargain and who doesn't love a bargain?

So not much later they say jump you don't even ask but you just start jumping.
Then it gets worse, and fast...

Soon after they'll have you by the hairy ones.
Likely you'll be forced to most seriously consider dropping the account, and
unfortunately this works out to nobody's benefit, meanwhile you went out on
a limb and now you've got all these expensive machines on monthly payments...

That's what I see coming, too.

jtruck618
10-07-2008, 01:57 PM
If you don't have health insurance,and you're injured or sick, who would you call to get your coverage DENIAL statement from ? :)

That is pretty funny. It's a shame that people view our insurance systems like that. I have great insurance through my employer but sill fight with the ins company alot. Pretty crazy, but you gotta keep that coverage.

DuallyVette
10-07-2008, 07:53 PM
That is pretty funny. It's a shame that people view our insurance systems like that. I have great insurance through my employer but sill fight with the ins company alot. Pretty crazy, but you gotta keep that coverage.


It's a shame that people believe it when someone tells them can guarantee their health and future...You might as well give your money to the guy in the pointed roof building...He'll get the invisible man in the sky, to keep an eye on you.:)

jtruck618
10-10-2008, 12:13 AM
So you don't see the need for health insurance? Maybe explain yourself a bit more.

tinman
10-10-2008, 12:47 AM
why not keep the day job & do the biz as much as possible for about 2 years & pay off everything you own (weird idea i know) . I am glad I quit my job & went full time but I wish i had done what I suggested to you. Woulda been rough for 2 years but worth it I think

tinman
10-10-2008, 12:48 AM
oh yeah good luck either way. If you plan it out u will make it work

alexlawn23
10-10-2008, 01:50 AM
I went from 12 clients to 46 clients in one year, I'm convinced that this is a great business. You should get this job, work it for a little, start advertising to residential properties, and as the residential biz grows, sic a team on the school district and you should run the residential houses full time by yourself. flyers, flyers, flyers is key!! and timing is key also.