20HP Kohler engine ----- Rear Seal LInkiNg OiLLLLLLLLLLLLLL ?????????????????

[Patrickckckck]

Hello..
I have a problem with my Kohler 20Hp command.

The rear shaft seal is linking.. No big deal, just replace it…..

I changed 3 times but it was keeping linking so I removed the oil cap from the valve cover at the engine running and I felt a lot of pressure coming out from the bloc.

I decided to re-built the entire engine so last week-end I got new pistons (with new rings) I got the heads done from a professional dude (cylinders are good) and obviously the new complete “gasket set”.
Sunday morning I put the engine back on the machine (Carpet cleaning machine called “Prochem Legend), turned the key and it start and runs perfect except the linking..
That F…K seal still F…K linking and I can tell that there stills a lot pressure inside the engine… Where that pressure coming from?

There are 2 more problems that I didn’t fixed and are:
1- Couple of valves makes some noise…
I guess is because those stupid valves-lifting that Kohler is using on this engines. Everybody have problems with this lifting and them still using those on new engines as well....
2-m The oil cap on the valve cover is broken and I can see the pressure coming out..

Do you have an idea what to do with this engine to stop that seal to link??
Do you have an idea why all that pressure inside the bloc?
Do you have an idea if I can put this engine in the garbage and replace with an Honda engine?

I’m 37 years old, Italian, and I been working in engines since I was 12 years old..
I worked in busses, crane, 18 wheel trucks, cars, scooters and everything you can imagine that as a mechanical devices, I work on that.
I never have this kind of problem till today that I’m dealing with Kohler..
Never again. For my opinion Kohler factory can close today.

If you can help me, please reply me to patbox2007@hotmail.com
Thanx..

[Restrorob]

Patrick,

Check this thread out;

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=248524

[topsites]

If the cap on the valve cover is broken...
And the oil comes out of there...
It is possible it finds its way down below, makes it look like the rear seal
is also leaking when in reality it's only the dumb cap.

So, have to fix things one problem at a time, always start
with the easy things, fix the cap by buying a new one.

Now I can not tell you if this will fix your problem, but we have to eliminate
the possibilities one problem, and one day at a time.

Peace

[Lawdog302]

You say it has pressure, but there is no way to be sure without a vacuum/pressure guage on the crankcase. If you pull the dipstick out of mine it appears to have pressure with oily mist, but once you put the guage on it, it pulls a good vacuum. If you do have pressure, look into the the crankcase breather reed and breather tube. Is this a horizontal or vertical crankshaft?

[Patrickckckck]

Hello..
First let me thank you all for your replies..

Here I’m explaining what the problem is, in a different way……
Everything starts with the rear shaft seal linking and I’m sure 100% that the oil comes from there. After I replaced few seals (3 or 4) with no success, I understand that there was a different problem… The first thing I noticed was that the engine has a lot pressure coming out from the bottom, so I decided to re-build the entire engine.
Now it has new pistons, new rings, new heads (valves, etc.), new gasket set, etc, etc..

The engine runs perfect and smooth, but when I test the vacuum inside the engine, instead to be 4 as the Kohler factory recommends, it was 2 and still a lot of pressure coming out from the bottom. When I remove the oil cop from the valves cover, it looks like to be a muffler…
This engine is missing vacuum and can not keep the oil inside.

My question now is:
How can I increase the vacuum on this engine????

Thankx…

[accurate machinery]

It does sound like excessive crankcase pressure. You did a complete overhaul so you should be able to eliminate where the excessive pressure usually comes from, the piston and rings in the cylinders. One other way to get high crankcase pressure is if your crankcase breather is clogged, all crankcases have to breath or vent, through a blow by tube or a vent to the air filter. I would check them.
I am sure you checked for crankshaft play or a seal groove worn in the crankshaft, excessive play will allow the crankshaft to wobble too much for the seal to keep a good seal and a groove worn in the crankshaft will also ruin the ability for the seal to do it's job. Have you tried a thicker oil in the engine? Sometimes when I do a re ring the rings will take a while to seat in the cylinders and will be a little smokier (and blow-by) until they wear in. Maybe try a small amount of Lucas oil stabilizer, as long as the manufacturer is ok with it.
I used to do a lot of engine rebuilding including some Kohlers, I remember one that took several hours to seat in the rings. Sorry I am not more familiar with your engine.

[Patrickckckck]

Hello again..

So I read all your advice and I really appreciate for the help but unfortuynatelly, as you can see I'm back here to exchange some extra info about this problem and see if I can finally get this engiine fix it.

So… When I decided to re-built this engine was because I saw a lot of pressure came-out from the crankcase (from the oil cap on the valves cover) and was easy to me to guess why that rear seal was linking oil even after I replaced with a new one, several times.
Too much pressure..
Are many reasons to get all that pressure on the crankcase, but the first one that everyone will think, is that the rings have some problem…

However, now that the engine its brand new, I shouldn’t get much pressure.. Right?
Mr. Accurate Machinery LLC gave me a good tip... I never thought about that the rings take a while to adjust its self with the cylinders and ether about using some oil stabilizer. Anyway, I don't see this engine make any smoke but there still coming out some ugly pressure from the crankcase. I checked the crankshaft its firm and stable on the crankcase-bearing.

The vacuum has been tested and it has 2 VS the Kohler factory that says that should be at least 4. The breather it’s clean and the breather-strainer it’s brand new as well.

So… At this point I will suggest:

- Make the breather hole on the crankcase bigger?
- Wait for the rings to adjust its self with the cylinders (no smoke is coming-out)?
- Wait for the seal (there was the space to fit 2 seals and so 2 I put on it) to adjust with the crankshaft?
- Throw this engine in the garbage and replace it with a Honda?

I hope to get more opinions and advices from you..
Thanx..

[Patrickckckck]

Hello again..

So I read all your advice and I really appreciate for the help but unfortuynatelly, as you can see I'm back here to exchange some extra info about this problem and see if I can finally get this engiine fix it.

So… When I decided to re-built this engine was because I saw a lot of pressure came-out from the crankcase (from the oil cap on the valves cover) and was easy to me to guess why that rear seal was linking oil even after I replaced with a new one, several times. Too much pressure..!!!
Are many reasons that makes an engine to have to much pressure coming from the crankcase, but the first one that everyone will think, is that the pistons-rings got some problems…

Now that the engine its brand new and I shouldn’t get much pressure.. Right?

Mr. Accurate Machinery, actually gave me a good tip... (thanks)
I never thought about that the piston-rings take a while to adjust its self with the cylinders and ether about using some oil stabilizer. Anyway, there is no smoke coming out from the engine.
I checked the crankshaft with the crankcase, and its firm and stable with the crankcase-bearing.
I also try to use thicker oil (sae 70) but got the same result and valves noise.
I even tried to make a big hole on the oil cap (on the valves cover) and than instal a hose to direct the extra pressure inside the air-filter. Same story and less crankcase vacuum.

By the way, the vacuum has been tested and it has 2 VS the Kohler factory that says that should be at least 4.
The breather it’s clean and the breather-strainer it’s brand new, as well.



Question: How can I remove pressure from the crankcase and/or get more vacuum????




My suggestions will be:

- Try to make the breather-hole inside the crankcase bigger?
- Wait for the rings to adjust its self with the cylinders? (no smoke is coming-out right now)...
- Wait for the new crankshaft seal (there was the space to fit 2 seals and so 2 I put on it) to get adjusted?
- Throw this engine in the garbage and replace it with a Honda?

I hope to get more opinions and advices from you..
Thanx..

[kayeproperties]

I have the same seal leaking on a Kohler 25. I have a blown head gasket which is making the engine very loud but also putting that extra pressure in the crankcase which makes the crank seal actually move back and forth and pushes oil past it. I will get the new head gasket installed this weekend and a new crank seal and I am confident it will end my problem.

[Lawdog302]

Enlarging the crank breather will not get you anywhere. When putting the engine back together, are you sure that the rings gaps were not lined up? Rings not seating can cause issues, but those issues should be resolved rather quickly. Did you hone the cylinders? I like to use a crosshatching hone(Dingleberry) for my engines and have never had an issue with cylinder pressure or vacuum. If you did not hone at all, then I would think this would be an issue. How about checking the breather tub to the carb, is there any cracks in it? Have you considered a crack on the closure plate where the seal is? Have you check your oil pressure to see how much you are running? If you are running more than 50psi then your oiling system is probably pushing the oil pass the seal and you will need to check the relief valve on the oil pump.
Good luck

[BigFish]

Did you replace or check the breather reed , not the filter or tube, but the reed, and check the seat ????

You don't need oil additives or thicker oil, 10w30 is fine. Also, the lifters are hydraulic and pretty much touble free, they shouldn't be noisy....


And it's spelled LEAKING !!!!

[Patrickckckck]

I got anothr reply from Mr. Bigfish..
Can't understand why is not showing up here. However this is the message that Mr. Bigfish foward to me:

BIGFISH:
Did you replace or check the breather reed , not the filter or tube, but the reed, and check the seat ????

You don't need oil additives or thicker oil, 10w30 is fine. Also, the lifters are hydraulic and pretty much touble free, they shouldn't be noisy....


And it's spelled LEAKING !!!!
__________________
GLOVES??.........I don't need no stinkin' rubber gloves!!!

......AMF!


PATRICKCKCKCK:
I appreciate your advice and honestly I was thinking about replacing the reed as well.
I should have it late next week from my local store.
The “seat”, I don’t have idea what part it is..??

I’m running the engine and seem getting a little bit better.
May really needs to get adjusted? New rings, new seals… Mahhh…
The valves aren’t making any noise at all (Napa 10-30, the cheap one).

I will keep in touch and let you know.

Sorry if I made some grammatical mistakes. My first languages still the Italian.
Ciao and thanks again for the help..

[VegetiveSteam]

How can I increase the vacuum on this engine????

The oil cap on the valve cover is broken and I can see the pressure coming out.


Asked and answered.

:dizzy: