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Keegan
10-08-2008, 09:27 PM
Has anyone ever used this product?
Any thoughts on it?

Thanks!!

treegal1
10-08-2008, 09:36 PM
how low is the calcium??? bone meal is a good source, sea shells, oyster shells......

Keegan
10-09-2008, 08:45 PM
I was actually looking to raise the PH on one property. It's 4.1

ICT Bill
10-09-2008, 08:49 PM
I was actually looking to raise the PH on one property. It's 4.1

Compost, a good to great source of compost

the soil may be 4.1 but the rhyzoplane is where it counts.
Get more good inputs in there and you will be fine

don't chase PH, think long term

growingdeeprootsorganicly
10-09-2008, 10:40 PM
im guilty.... i chase the ph ghost.... to many yards have poor soils out there

proper soil ph is very important on many levels to a particular plant.
if ph is that low for turf? and mass quantity's of quality compost are not an option...or time?

then do whats need to correct ph.....

ive never used the asked about product but hear it has 3x the efficiency and power as regular high cal lime......also cost more

ICT Bill
10-09-2008, 11:46 PM
im guilty.... i chase the ph ghost.... to many yards have poor soils out there

proper soil ph is very important on many levels to a particular plant.
if ph is that low for turf? and mass quantity's of quality compost are not an option...or time?

then do whats need to correct ph.....

ive never used the asked about product but hear it has 3x the efficiency and power as regular high cal lime......also cost more

short term you can put stuff down and get a great results. $15 for a soil test, cool the soil test is the best

Long term, don't chase PH, the plant root could care less what your random digs in the dirt are, it is about the microorganisms that are there, they determine the PH next to the root, the Rhizoplane

You have been duped by the fertilzer companies again and again and again and again

really ..........think about it

growingdeeprootsorganicly
10-10-2008, 07:55 AM
short term you can put stuff down and get a great results. $15 for a soil test, cool the soil test is the best

Long term, don't chase PH, the plant root could care less what your random digs in the dirt are, it is about the microorganisms that are there, they determine the PH next to the root, the Rhizoplane

You have been duped by the fertilzer companies again and again and again and again

really ..........think about it



i disagree with your statement.. i use a ph meter in the field daily. when ph is way off in soil. water, fert solution...... growth slows

green_mark
10-10-2008, 11:22 AM
Our experience has been to test on site with a kelway meter. If the soil is moist you will get an accurate reading.

We have 1,000 of lawns in Mpls/St Paul area that have very thin turf, Creeping Charlie and many other weeds.

The lower the pH reading the more weeds and the thinner the turf.

We apply straight up lime at 25 - 50 lbs/1,000 [depending on how bad it is] and your 4 pH is bad. This provides very strong responses within 30 days.

Often we will Core Aerate, Lime, Alfalfa and Over Seed to get the process off to a good start.

Each year on a property as bad as the one you described we will apply at least 25 lbs /1,000 after the initial boost of 50 lbs/1,000.

Customers are very happy with the program.

growingdeeprootsorganicly
10-10-2008, 07:27 PM
You have been duped by the fertilizer companies again and again and again and again

really ..........think about it


yah.....i thinking about it.......your a fertilizer sales man? right bill?

your a monday morning quarter back with advice STRAIGHT off the Internet
get a grip!

do you ever make a commit that doesn't some how relate to your product???? the under line theme you always have?

why don't you go post on yahoo some more with your THEME POSTS to just get your company/product name out there SOME MORE

durrrrr!!!!:dizzy:

JDUtah
10-10-2008, 09:48 PM
Go brew a tea at pH 4 and tell me the microbes don't have a pH range...

Be sure to verify that the pH 4 brew breeds out the same microbes as a neutral pH brew...

Show me that the microbes take a pH 4 brew to pH of 7 during brew times... (albeit they might actually help because they produce CO2 which equates to CO2 + H2O = H + HCO3)

The claims are that these microbes do this amazing pH balancing thing aren't they? Show me? When I brought up the idea that they could I got knocked for it...

PS, if you study nutrients in the soil you learn that the Rhizoplane is NOT the only place where plant required minerals exist... study soil diffusion? Maybe mass flow? A few good articles were linked in the nitrogen thread...

Prolawnservice
10-10-2008, 10:03 PM
yah.....i thinking about it.......your a fertilizer sales man? right bill?

your a monday morning quarter back with advice STRAIGHT off the Internet
get a grip!

do you ever make a commit that doesn't some how relate to your product???? the under line theme you always have?

why don't you go post on yahoo some more with your THEME POSTS to just get your company/product name out there SOME MORE

durrrrr!!!!:dizzy:

I don't know if that was called for, give the guy a break, he has his beliefs and I don't think his post was directly trying to sell you his product. What did bill do to get you so fired up, let it go, be the bigger man. I'm with you if everything he says is my product this and my product that, but he didn't mention his product at all in that post.

growingdeeprootsorganicly
10-11-2008, 10:40 AM
pro,

i dig what ur saying....about being the bigger man...

but i come home late friday from long week grinding out on the lawns and he posts a reply quoting me....telling me ive been duped by the fert company's and so on?

he just makes it to easy for me to vent a little.

keegan just asked about a product...he never said if he's growing organically or synthetically? bill only descent answer was lots of good compost?...other then that the rest was useless in the real world when it comes to growing plants in poor soils. jmo

jd, soil organisms will help change ph....more bacterial higher ph..
more fungal lower ph.......but soil needs to be very very active microbial and the right foods feed to select.....takes time to correct
my starting well water ph for my brews is 5.1-5.8 all brews finish at 7 -7.2
part do to compost/rockdusts ete part do to bacteria

but when poor soil exists or wrong soil for a particular plant with out of whack ph....immediate correction is warranted... depending?

ICT Bill
10-11-2008, 11:43 AM
but when poor soil exists or wrong soil for a particular plant with out of whack ph....immediate correction is warranted... depending?

Charlie, charlie, charlie,
I have told this once or twice but we will start with one example. During a talk at the ELA show that we sponsored in 2007 Dr. Elaine Ingham was speaking on soil PH as part of a 7 hour marathon speech. anyway she had a client, a citrus grove, the client had been applying lime for 30 years, every year. They would do a soil test, the test would come back XXX amount of lime needed per acre, they applied tons and tons of lime EVERY YEAR. Did the tons of lime fix the soil defiency? It doesn't seem that way to me.

She had them begin composting all of the tree trimmings and everything else possible on the farm. She also had them add the lime to the compost pile instead of on the soil out in the grove, when the lime compost piles were ready the compost was spread throughout the grove. as usual a while later they did a soil test to see what soil defiencies that they had.

The soil test came back that no lime was needed, after 30 years of applying lime the site did not need it anymore. HUH???

We are selecting for beneficials that make the nutrient available, you can use whatever practice you like but there are other ways to apply and have better success

another story is selecting for chitinolytic bacterias with worm gold worm poop, it produces chitinase enzyme production in the soil which is detremental to grubs. Apply the chitinolytic worm gold and the beetle issues go away HUH????

There are other ways to produce good results you just have to open your thought process a little. Instead of being so inflammatory, use the effort to instruct or listen. I appreciate your comments and thoughts I just think they are pointed in the wrong direction

growingdeeprootsorganicly
10-11-2008, 11:47 AM
worm gold casts? where do i know that name from?

treegal1
10-11-2008, 12:05 PM
I have been up that way and seen there operation its a nice 120 x 50 steel shed with all the heat and cover you would ever want, the beds are just standard flow throgh, red worms nothing specal if my memorie serves me, nice clean operation.


ITS STILL JUST WORM CASTS, MO MAGIC OR DEVINNE BLISS IN THOSE CASTS!! WHAT DO YOU DO TO GET GREAT WORM CASTS??? LET WORMS TAKE A DUMP???

ICT Bill
10-11-2008, 01:02 PM
They had, I am not real familiar with the operation, some worms that they were feeding only composted shrimp shells too (lots of chitin) the worms casts selected for chitinolytic bacteria.

The test was in the west for a beetle that was tearing up (probably still is) the pine trees, their testing proved that the beetle populations went down, way down, in the areas treated. chitinolytic bacteria produce the chitinase enzyme that is lethal to creatures in the soil that have chitin in their exoskelton

I have a copy of the study somewhere, it was a long time ago but I'll see if I can find it. we are doing some very interesting studies right now on enzyme production. we just got some studies back from the U of Rhode Island showing complete control of nematode populations that had overun several golf courses in the northeast.
The only reason they had overun them was because of a complete imbalance in the soils, they had been very heavy with fungicides and high salt fertilizers, the opportunist in this void just happened to be root feeding nematodes. get it under control and start again

Mother nature does not like voids

It is a war down there

growingdeeprootsorganicly
10-11-2008, 01:48 PM
worm gold......are they one of the cast barry sells? from cali? little more product placement in your posts?


yes ive read that too from doc i but she also says there's all the calcium needed already in all our soils? that might be true to some extent but to make that cal available you would need perfect soil conditions for biology to THRIVE and make available..

i think tree g disagreed with that story?

that grove grower story.......what was the existing soil make up? soil type and mineral content? you would think if it was mostly sandy that lime/calcium would have a hard time bounding with the soil? compost would indeed help retain the calcium in organism biomass and OM?

the micro organisms in soil is one of the most important driving forces in healthy plant growth and is why i got into organic pratices to begin with.... but with out optimum soil conditions and proper food for microbes to thrive....the true benefit that they offer is often lacking in most poor soils...

we are gardeners/growers/lawnguys/landscapers.....fixing problems is what where paid too do........for a poor performing lawn with most likely poor soil to relye on only biology to fix the problem....a ... might take awhile

growingdeeprootsorganicly
10-11-2008, 03:20 PM
bill,

in the grove story.......

the grower made compost from ALL farm's indigenis green waste and was fortified with lime right? and probably more? ofcoure that will deliver great lasting results....making/ using local source compost and fortified it with what ever's needed is the very best thing you can do to improve your soil and ultimately to improve the over all growth performance of a plant. we all know that.....?

what do you do when the addition of large amounts of compost/fortified is not a reality and your ph is off by 2.4? and professional results are expected sooner then later?

JDUtah
10-11-2008, 03:32 PM
Hire me!!!!!!!!!!!!

treegal1
10-11-2008, 05:44 PM
Hire me!!!!!!!!!!!!


hell yes bring your brewer down with you, I have a stand up position, we will provide the cup and face mask for the tomato chuck.LOLOL, JK maybe one day....

Growing, its just worm casts, we all sell it, at some levil, and trust me its all just worm sh*t, just great marketing, THAT I DONT WANT TO DO,add cost and shows(idont fly) let em have it..............home every night stable and all, thats me.

ICT Bill
10-11-2008, 06:42 PM
bill,

in the grove story.......

the grower made compost from ALL farm's indigenis green waste and was fortified with lime right? and probably more? ofcoure that will deliver great lasting results....making/ using local source compost and fortified it with what ever's needed is the very best thing you can do to improve your soil and ultimately to improve the over all growth performance of a plant. we all know that.....?

what do you do when the addition of large amounts of compost/fortified is not a reality and your ph is off by 2.4? and professional results are expected sooner then later?


Jeez I have been trying to head you in the right direction, read between the lines.......OK maybe you can't

do an alkaline brew.........wake up man, think out of the box

JDUtah
10-11-2008, 07:10 PM
I'll take the tomato chuck only if I can be in the dunk tank after. :)

growingdeeprootsorganicly
10-11-2008, 08:33 PM
Jeez I have been trying to head you in the right direction, read between the lines.......OK maybe you can't

do an alkaline brew.........wake up man, think out of the box


alkaline brew???????? thats your answer????? a neutral ph finish brew used straight will not correct soil ph. or are you saying brew with lime??... how much lime/potassium hydroxide can you use in it??????????????? don't you dare say baking soda?:dizzy:

what about the guys with out brewers??? is that your answer to them???

i read between the lines just fine.......thats why i call you out on your lame advice

if some one can only treat a lawn 5+ times a year cause of customer limited funds THATS YOUR ANSWER TO CORRECTING PH????????????????

you are a goof ball..............

worm gold? barry's cast????

phasthound
10-11-2008, 08:45 PM
[QUOTE=

worm gold? barry's cast????[/QUOTE]

Yes I supply Worm Gold PLUS and other products.

Dude, get some sleep. :) :sleeping:

growingdeeprootsorganicly
10-11-2008, 09:31 PM
barry,

gee.... no hard feelings ok:cry::)

reason i asked was bill so conveniently through in a product placement i was just trying to confirm we where talking about the same thing....... and go figure.......????

Tim Wilson
10-12-2008, 10:27 AM
Boy oh boy, quite the thread. The most likely reason that an amendment is required to adjust pH is that the microbial balance (ratio) of the soil is out of whack. Charlie did point this out but not in those words. He commented also, that to correct a pH problem with microbes, either with compost tea (CT), compost or other organic matter takes time. Many people do use pH adjusters for more immediate effects but these efforts are likely short lived. There is the realization that within the landscaping industry not all customers have the patience or money for extended organic matter or CT applications. Ideally, those in the industry can teach the impatient ones that in the long run it is worth the wait and show the 'not so wealthy ones' less expensive alternatives they can do on their own.

I don't think Bill quite deserved the razing he got at the beginning of the thread but Bill, sometimes your short statements do not project exactly what you mean or are not easily understood. I too would like to know what an alkaline brew is.

I'm with Treegal on the vermicompost. There is some difference in the microbial make up with altered diet, however, I have yet to see true evidence on the chitin thing with the worm gold stuff. My mind remains open, although I read through what I believe is a patent filed in this regard and could make no sense of it. That may just be me.

David, microbes do indeed alter the pH of their environment. Generally a high pH CT will have a greater population of bacteria/archaea, while a lower CT trends to more fungal hyphae. There are certain species of bacteria, archaea and fungi which break with this pattern (e.g. PNSB bacteria) This, to the best of my knowledge thus far, carries to soil.

muddstopper
10-12-2008, 12:21 PM
Has anyone ever used this product?
Any thoughts on it?

Thanks!!

To get back to the original question.
I havent used solucal, but my personal opinion is that to use this product as a long term solution to correcting the ph levels in the soil would be extremely cost prohibiting. While I feel if a short term ph correction could be achieved with this product, any longterm effect would be negated simply because of the actual amount of calcium lime that is being applied. For long term ph/calcium deficencey corrections, regular agr grade or bagged lime would be much more cost effective. Solucal should be very effective in supplying calcium to calcium deficient plants for immediatnt results, but I feel the applications should also contain some bagged lime to help correct the longterm problems of the host soil.

Someone said Ingham stated that lime applications where not necessary, I personaly think someone has mis quoted her or took these statements out of context. Afterall, she does subscribe to the Albretch method of soil fertility when making crop recommendations with soil testing and the Albretch method states a Cation Saturation of around 68% Calcium being needed to maintain a proper soil balance.

I also think that growingdeep, hit the nail on the head when he pointed out the fact that the compost used on the citrus grove had been amended with lime. It only makes sense that lime contained in compost would stay around longer than surface applied lime simply because of the ion reaction between the anion and cation nutrients. The fact that Ingham also suggested that lime be added to the compost pile further suggests that she didnt say or intended to say something other than most soils dont need calcium amendments. I havent read what she did or didnt say on this subject, maybe somebody can post exact wording on this subject.

Tim Wilson
10-12-2008, 02:24 PM
To get back to the original question.
I havent used solucal, but my personal opinion is that to use this product as a long term solution to correcting the ph levels in the soil would be extremely cost prohibiting. While I feel if a short term ph correction could be achieved with this product, any longterm effect would be negated simply because of the actual amount of calcium lime that is being applied. For long term ph/calcium deficencey corrections, regular agr grade or bagged lime would be much more cost effective. Solucal should be very effective in supplying calcium to calcium deficient plants for immediatnt results, but I feel the applications should also contain some bagged lime to help correct the longterm problems of the host soil.

Someone said Ingham stated that lime applications where not necessary, I personaly think someone has mis quoted her or took these statements out of context. Afterall, she does subscribe to the Albretch method of soil fertility when making crop recommendations with soil testing and the Albretch method states a Cation Saturation of around 68% Calcium being needed to maintain a proper soil balance.

I also think that growingdeep, hit the nail on the head when he pointed out the fact that the compost used on the citrus grove had been amended with lime. It only makes sense that lime contained in compost would stay around longer than surface applied lime simply because of the ion reaction between the anion and cation nutrients. The fact that Ingham also suggested that lime be added to the compost pile further suggests that she didnt say or intended to say something other than most soils dont need calcium amendments. I havent read what she did or didnt say on this subject, maybe somebody can post exact wording on this subject.

Nicely stated.

phasthound
10-12-2008, 05:17 PM
To get back to the original question.
I havent used solucal, but my personal opinion is that to use this product as a long term solution to correcting the ph levels in the soil would be extremely cost prohibiting. While I feel if a short term ph correction could be achieved with this product, any longterm effect would be negated simply because of the actual amount of calcium lime that is being applied. For long term ph/calcium deficencey corrections, regular agr grade or bagged lime would be much more cost effective. Solucal should be very effective in supplying calcium to calcium deficient plants for immediatnt results, but I feel the applications should also contain some bagged lime to help correct the longterm problems of the host soil.

Someone said Ingham stated that lime applications where not necessary, I personaly think someone has mis quoted her or took these statements out of context. Afterall, she does subscribe to the Albretch method of soil fertility when making crop recommendations with soil testing and the Albretch method states a Cation Saturation of around 68% Calcium being needed to maintain a proper soil balance.

I also think that growingdeep, hit the nail on the head when he pointed out the fact that the compost used on the citrus grove had been amended with lime. It only makes sense that lime contained in compost would stay around longer than surface applied lime simply because of the ion reaction between the anion and cation nutrients. The fact that Ingham also suggested that lime be added to the compost pile further suggests that she didnt say or intended to say something other than most soils dont need calcium amendments. I havent read what she did or didnt say on this subject, maybe somebody can post exact wording on this subject.

To the best of my recollection, I have heard her on 2 different occasions say that direct lime applications should not be done, but that if needed lime should be composted before applying. Her emphasis was on adjusting the biology.

Anyone have thoughts on hi-cal lime with soluble humates?

topsites
10-13-2008, 11:02 AM
So...
I guess Sol-U-Cal is out?

muddstopper
10-13-2008, 07:31 PM
To the best of my recollection, I have heard her on 2 different occasions say that direct lime applications should not be done, but that if needed lime should be composted before applying. Her emphasis was on adjusting the biology.

Anyone have thoughts on hi-cal lime with soluble humates?

Barry, I suspect the mixing lime with compost is to ensure the calcium does stay in place and not be leached out by any free nitrogen, but I have had a few Phds who specialize in microbe biology tell me not to add lime to my compost piles. I am not fully convinced and My personal opinion is that exposeing the lime nutrients to the active microbes contained in a working compost pile would only insure that the finished compost would have a more balanced nutrient level. Similar to adding rock dust and other amendments to the compost piles. I supposed the compost material might work off a little faster at the lower ph than it would if lime was added to the pile, but do we want compost fast or a quality product?

I also think that adding humate material to active compost piles will result in more humis being produced than would be without adding the humate. Humate is hydrophobic and resists further decomposition, but when exposed to heat and nitrogen, as well as bacterial enzymes, it will break down and become microbe food. I would guess that the addition of lime as well as humate to the compost pile would do more to encourage bacteria to dominate over the fungi. I have seen one study where pulverized humate was treated with xenol achohol to reduce the hydrophobisity, and sodium molybdiate ( forgive my spelling?) to stimulate microbes, and actually used in the place of fertilizers with pretty good results.

ICT Bill
10-13-2008, 08:34 PM
You are selecting for the microbes that live in that environment

alkaline brew you get alkaline bugzzzz, soil has an acid PH, an alkaline brew

Want certain bugzzzzz, select for them, it is very elemental

This is not rocket science, although we try to make it that way

" my brews always end up at a nutreal PH" who cares ???? why should they

Why add rock phosphate? what is the reason? maybe to select for certain parameters

THINK OUT OF THE BOX

JDUtah
10-14-2008, 12:13 AM
jd, soil organisms will help change ph....more bacterial higher ph..
more fungal lower ph.......but soil needs to be very very active microbial and the right foods feed to select.....takes time to correct
my starting well water ph for my brews is 5.1-5.8 all brews finish at 7 -7.2
part do to compost/rockdusts ete part do to bacteria

Deeproots...

Can you do me a favor during your next brew please? (I would do it but don't have the brewing experience... yet.)

I read your post to mean you watch the pH increase as the brew matures? Is that correct?

During your next brew, before it is mature, but after the Ph has adjusted closer to 7, will you remove a gallon or two and let them finish maturing without the active aeration? Will you then watch the DO2 and pH?

I presume you will notice that as the DO2 decreases (and inversely CO2 increases), you will see a lowering of the pH as well (more towards the starting pH). This should happen do to the carbonates that will form in the solution.

If that holds true, even a neutral/alkaline CT may cause an acidic soil to (temporally?) go more acidic. But before investigating soil, it would be interesting to answer the question if D02 relates to pH in a microbial solution (CT).

Or if anyone else is wiling to try it and post the results it would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

----


Bill,

Quick question... would you expect a lizard from the Mohave Desert to change the environment in Antarctica if you shipped it there? (redundant question, so don't answer, but think microbes... ... ...)

Smallaxe
10-14-2008, 08:17 AM
It seems to me that ct is too weak to do much about ph. ct is microbes. microbes sprayed into an unhospitable environment will go dormant.

The bugs that are happy with the status quo (of the soil) will continue to flourish. no real change.

I can see how actual compost , with mass to it, can help buffer ph since the OM help each plant maintain its own micro-ecosystem, but the microbes alone isn't reasonable.

To me, the next best logical step is the char. - for the soil 'balance'.

Tim Wilson
10-14-2008, 02:35 PM
You are selecting for the microbes that live in that environment

alkaline brew you get alkaline bugzzzz, soil has an acid PH, an alkaline brew

Want certain bugzzzzz, select for them, it is very elemental

This is not rocket science, although we try to make it that way

" my brews always end up at a nutreal PH" who cares ???? why should they

Why add rock phosphate? what is the reason? maybe to select for certain parameters

THINK OUT OF THE BOX

Bill,

Is this in answer to me? It explains nothing. Tell me how you brew an alkaline CT. You really have seen altering soil pH just with an alkaline brew???

My experience is that soil stabalizes to a pH governed by microbial population over an extended period.

Tim

JDUtah
10-14-2008, 03:31 PM
OK friends I need some help here...

how do microbes adjust pH?

ICT Bill
10-14-2008, 05:18 PM
No, the PH, or any other input adjusts the types of microbes

I'll use the example of a friend in Minnesota again, he went to the site of a major gasoline spill. A large tanker truck tipped over and spilled lots of fuel on the ground. He went by sometime later and dug in the soil and brought it back to the lab, he isolated the most common microbes in the soil. There were several that really outpopulated everything else.

He grew these guys out and tried some experiments, these guys liked gasoline as food. His company is now listed with the state as someone to call when there has been a spill. He takes his microbes to the site and bioremidiates it, with his patented microbes

If you can select for fungal or bacterial brews by using certain inputs why not adjusting PH to select for certain microbes that like the input as food or simply thrive in the enviroment. These become nutrient miners for the nutrient in the soil and make them plant available, eventually

JDUtah
10-14-2008, 05:46 PM
yadda yadda yadda?

ICT Bill
10-14-2008, 06:18 PM
yadda yadda yadda?

Yadda this

JDUtah
10-14-2008, 06:45 PM
Back to my question...

How do microbes alter pH???

JDUtah
10-14-2008, 07:11 PM
Sorry I guess I should make myself a little more clear...

I read a little about bicarbonates and how the human body regulates pH. (respiration, excretion, CO2, and bicarbonate buffering) and was wondering if anyone knew if microbes do similar things... and how it relates to the soil pH... That's why I'm asking how microbes adjust pH...

For months various people in this forum have stated microbes buffer the pH in the rhyzosphere. Hopefully they can back the claim up with an understanding of what actually goes on? (if buffering does occur)...

thanks...

Tim Wilson
10-14-2008, 07:58 PM
David,

I have no idea what Bill is talking about. The way it works is that microbes create the pH conducive to their best survival. Manipulation of pH to select for microbes is kinda ass backwards.

If for example I discover a relatively neutral to high (7 to 8, 9) pH in soil or CT, it is more likely that I will find a higher population of bacteria than fungi. On the other hand an acidic environment is likely to have a higher fungal population. Over time microbes alter the pH to promote their own survival and the plants they live from; e.g. forest soil trends to more acidic as it is a highly fungal environment; lots of mushrooms. A garden/lawn soil that has a good ratio of the correct microbes balances out to a moderately balanced pH (6 to 7). If you had a highly alkaline soil, over time it is probable that you could lower the pH with applications of fungal containing material; mushroom inoculants (fungi perfecti), mycorrhizal, fungal compost/vermicompost and perhaps with applications of CT with fungi-imperfecti hyphal populations. My jury is still out on the latter. If you wanted to raise the pH over time then use bacterial applications and CT with high bacteria populations.

As I mentioned in a previous post there are some exceptions, like low pH loving bacteria and archaea. PNSBs are in this group and are often used for toxic clean up; train derailments, etc. I use them to clean up my gut. GRIN

Sorry if I left anything out. I'm a little bagged.

treegal1
10-14-2008, 08:17 PM
I would like to add one little observation in line with this discussion, BE careful about what your fish oil is preserved with, the high acid stuff is no good for brewing, great for fungal control but BAD for brewing with.

JD maybe you should read how vinegar is made or citric acid( hint its not from citrus) then you can back our claims with your expertise. on the other hand what about lime??? is that not olites and diatomes????

JDUtah
10-14-2008, 09:11 PM
Tree,

Ironically I thought about studying vinegar etc today. I haven't yet but it's on the docket.

Learning more about how living organisms (humans so far) actually control pH is enlightening... things that make me go "oh duh..." but still it's always cool to learn no matter how long it takes to make the connections...

Burning carbs in our body and breathing in O2 while breathing out CO2 actually creates water and maintains a certain pH... that's cool stuff...

Tim,

Thanks for the clarification. Hope you sleep well tonight. :waving:

ICT Bill
10-15-2008, 12:04 AM
Back to my question...

How do microbes alter pH???

PH alter microbes

ICT Bill
10-15-2008, 12:21 AM
PH alter microbes

and microbes alter PH

so the answer is YES

HayBay
10-15-2008, 09:13 AM
Keegan,

Sol u Cal is the same as KMAG here.

K-MAG Premium supplies three vital plant nutrients - potassium, magnesium and sulfur (21.5% K2O, 10.5% Mg, 21% S). This premium product is mined and granulated near Carlsbad, New Mexico.


You want to raise the PH you need a lime based product. Kmag will decrease ph levels. Very slightly if at all.

HayBay
10-15-2008, 12:02 PM
Sorry, Sol U Cal is a lime based product to increase PH.

Su -Po-Mag is what I was referring to in reference to Kmag.

JDUtah
10-15-2008, 01:12 PM
Lol, in my version of english that is not a yes or no question... but it's all good... thanks Bill. :)

Tim Wilson
10-15-2008, 07:23 PM
Lol, in my version of english that is not a yes or no question... but it's all good... thanks Bill. :)

Ditto; grinning from ear to ear.

ICT Bill
10-15-2008, 09:14 PM
I am referring to mycologists, in one case, being asked the question

How long are mycorrhizae viable in the soil without a root association?
10 days, 10 months, 10 years? the answer generally has been "yes"

So I am asking the collective "we" generally the same question, if you can manipulate feed stocks to select for general outcomes, more fungal or more bacterial. Why cannot we select for different outcomes with different inputs

does it make sense or not? I am just posing a question

if the brew is in an alkaline environment doesn't that select for an alkaline outcome? certainly the acid PH guys are not going to be at the party

and if your grinning at the question posed maybe you should rethink the question <G>

JDUtah
10-16-2008, 02:26 AM
Is Bill answering his own question instead of the one(s) posed by us? Is that where the misunderstanding starts?

Bill,

If it is intentional... I hope you realize we are strong minded enough to not be told what to ask...

----

side note: this forum has died lately. :cry:

JDUtah
10-16-2008, 02:33 AM
Ditto; grinning from ear to ear.

........ lol .........

carolinagreen
01-17-2010, 02:27 PM
very helpful.


I have 1 bag of Solucal in storage. I plan to use it soon. I will let you know what my results are.

DUSTYCEDAR
01-20-2010, 05:18 PM
wow did this take a turn from the first post
as for solucal i like it for a quick fix for seeding

mdlwn1
01-20-2010, 07:13 PM
Has anyone ever used this product?
Any thoughts on it?

Thanks!!

Havent read through the BS here..........Quick results but short longevity as compared to regular lime.