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View Full Version : diesel won't start... could it be flooded


bruno_rs
10-09-2008, 01:27 PM
hey all, i ve got an older ransome t22dv (front deck mower) with a 3 cyl. yanmar or mitsu., not sure. i noticed after trying to start it, the line running from the tanks to the filter had a pinhole. i replaced with high pressure line and bled the system @ the injector feeds.

i'm not fully knowledgeable about diesels. after bleeding the system i attempted to start the engine. at 1st, it did catch (somewhat) BUT did not run and/or fire up correctly. moreover, when i attempted to give it more fuel, it died out. i continued to attempt to start it, for approximately 5 minutes... to no avail. maybe i didn't bleed it correctly and/or it's flooded?

can a diesel engine flood? if so, how do you go about un-flooding it, WITHOUT causing damage? figured i'd cut to the chase and ask the BIG BOYS... hopefully you, in this forum, will have me up and running asap. thanks for your help, looking forward to hearing from you. have a good one.

SuperDuty335
10-09-2008, 02:44 PM
Bleed the fuel lines at the injectors one more time and report back. I've had engines that never required bleeding while I have also had engines that took an hour or more to bleed off.

FDuce
10-09-2008, 02:49 PM
I am no expert, but I just oversaw teh restarting of a diesel that had run out of fuel. There was a spot before the injectors that was bled first and then the injectors. That first spot may have been at the filter??

wanabe
10-09-2008, 06:27 PM
Crank it over and give it a shot of eather. Not a can, but just a shot or two. This is what I always do when changing filters or have lines open. A diesel can flood, but that is rare.

bobcat_ron
10-09-2008, 08:41 PM
Crack open all the injectors, crank it over for a few seconds, tighten them back up, then crank at 1/2 throttle, if it fails, use either, but only when the engine is cranking.

Ausman
10-10-2008, 06:51 AM
OK, check if when you turn the key on you hear or see the electric solinoid that opens the fuel rack pulls it open. If is not your cranking it with no fuel.

many of those machines have fuses to operate the fuel solenoid on the injector pump.

step 1.

Fuel at injectors>?
if no go to the injector pump is the solenoid opening. if yess

Go to the priming pump either electric or manual is it working?

oh and just from left field i had a guy the other day but the inner air claeaner in the wrong way!

If a diesel has fuel air and compresion you will get a bang, wish i could get a BANG!

CarterKraft
10-10-2008, 07:11 PM
Really just need to bleed the lines, at the injectors.

I had a customer that replaced the injection pump due to the lube truck putting the inner aif filter backwards.

Funny thing was it ran!

howierd3866
10-10-2008, 07:34 PM
Crank it over and give it a shot of eather. Not a can, but just a shot or two. This is what I always do when changing filters or have lines open. A diesel can flood, but that is rare.

I wouldn't use eather if you never use it before could do too much damage fast..use a gas rag over the air filter and make sure you hold on tight to the rag

bruno_rs
10-11-2008, 10:40 PM
hey all, thanks for the replies and suggestions. i've found another line that has a pin hole in it (pressurized rubber). i'm hoping that's what is keeping her from running. this machine has never started easily. at the beginning of the season, i installed new glow plugs and that helped a little. it is only used to mow fields, every so often.

i'm not well versed in diesel and not sure if i'm bleeding the system correctly... i cracked the nut holding the fuel line to the injector and turned the engine over, until i saw only fuel spewing from the line. once it looked like just fuel, i then tightened and moved on to the next cylinder.

am i missing something or, is this the right way to bleed a diesel fuel system? i appreciate the posts which suggested the use of ether (carefully) however i really don't want to as, i've heard some horror stories like throwing and/or bending S#!T. i thank you all and look forward to more replies. have a good o

GravelyNut
10-11-2008, 11:59 PM
Proper way to bleed most Diesel engines is:
1. outlet of fuel pump.
2. injection pump if equipted with a bleed port/screw
3. injector feeds at injectors and return(s) at injection pump/fuel pump

You need to bleed all of them in some cases while some will self clear after the first one is working. Don't waste time and just bleed them all. You need to bleed the returns too as in most cases they go back to one or the other of the pumps and would otherwise push air back in to what you just bled. Some secondary filter housings also have a bleed/test port.

Use caution when bleeding the high pressure lines as Diesel fuel can be shot into the skin if under high pressure. It then can cause infections.

East Coast Lawn Choppers
10-14-2008, 10:06 AM
Crank it over and give it a shot of eather. Not a can, but just a shot or two. This is what I always do when changing filters or have lines open. A diesel can flood, but that is rare.

Never Never Never and if you do let me know where I can come buy it from you cheap... lol

Most not all diesels will destroy themselves on starter fluids. We buy up ones all the time that have been started fluid abused. The Kubota's are the worst on shot of either and the ring lands blow right off the pistons. We have pictures of what happens to them...
Some can handle it some can't it's not worth seeing if yours can or can't
As far as flooding diesels, they don't flood like a gas engine, sounds more like a lack of fuel, try bleeding again and be careful.
Follow GravelyNut's advice

wanabe
10-14-2008, 11:05 AM
So a diesel will not handle starting fluid? Then why did so many mfg. include a can on the side of the engine as a starting aid? I have been used starting fluid in diesels for over 20 years on several and have never caused any damage. I understand the whole concept of causing damage, but that is why I said to use a little while it was cranking. I did not say to spray a whole can in it and try to start it so it runs at 4000 RPM and throws a rod.

SiteSolutions
10-14-2008, 02:10 PM
Yeah, I have to throw a flag on that, too. Moderation is the key, but ether is used every day by thousands of people on diesels and will probably continue to be for a long long time. (or until it is banned by the gov't as a controlled substance.)

On an old engine that is only used occasionally, a small shot may just be part of the starting routine.

East Coast Lawn Choppers
10-14-2008, 07:15 PM
So a diesel will not handle starting fluid? Then why did so many mfg. include a can on the side of the engine as a starting aid? I have been used starting fluid in diesels for over 20 years on several and have never caused any damage. I understand the whole concept of causing damage, but that is why I said to use a little while it was cranking. I did not say to spray a whole can in it and try to start it so it runs at 4000 RPM and throws a rod.
Our Kubota diesel has a sticker right on the air filter that says "no starter fluid" I have bought a few that people have used it in and it is not pretty... It is not that they over rev and blow. It actually explodes before the piston is anywhere close to TDC and creates so much pressure in the cylinder it busts the ring lands right off of the piston. I have plenty of pictures to prove that.
Also like I said it's not all but if you are not sure if yours can handle it don't use it...
Glow plugs don't help with it firing way to early either. The one you have been starting for 20+ years is it a glow plug engine ?

East Coast Lawn Choppers
10-14-2008, 07:29 PM
Out of a 7.3 motors book "A word of caution about ether or starting fluids: a hot glow plug can ignite starting fluid before you have a chance to crank over the engine and will cause internal damage."
It also says it on our Chevy diesel and all that we have torn apart and rebuilt all had glow plugs.
It causes it to fire way too early and break pistons...
Like I said some not all... On our International Dump it says you can use it but that doesn't have glow plugs...

wanabe
10-14-2008, 08:42 PM
Yep, some of them have glow plugs and eather start aid. Been arround farm equipment for years like this, and to this day have never had one problem. Lots and lots of diesels have a can attached to the side of the motor, just like the cans you buy at the store. Our combine gives it a small shot every time it is started. Other equip has a button to press in while cranking. Maybe kubota needs different pistons, but that is them and not every other diesel mfg. As far as chevy diesels, well they were all junk in my view except the duramax. They finally have there crap together and have a good diesel.

DiyDave
10-14-2008, 08:43 PM
NOT ALL DIESELS ARE CREATED EQUAL! A shot of ether that does no harm to a large American made diesel motor, that uses pistons with a thick top, can blow the thin top of an Asian diesel motor's piston straight down into the crankcase! Remember that the small diesels used in this industry, use very little metal in the motor, to economize on fuel. This makes them allergic to ether!:hammerhead::hammerhead:

East Coast Lawn Choppers
10-14-2008, 11:16 PM
Yep, some of them have glow plugs and eather start aid. Been arround farm equipment for years like this, and to this day have never had one problem. Lots and lots of diesels have a can attached to the side of the motor, just like the cans you buy at the store. Our combine gives it a small shot every time it is started. Other equip has a button to press in while cranking. Maybe kubota needs different pistons, but that is them and not every other diesel mfg. As far as chevy diesels, well they were all junk in my view except the duramax. They finally have there crap together and have a good diesel.

Detroit Diesel lasted from 1938 couldn't have been that bad... by the way that is GM

Construct'O
10-15-2008, 12:10 AM
Detroit Diesel lasted from 1938 couldn't have been that bad... by the way that is GM

The old Jimmy(Detroit) in my trencher "Love's the Stuff":laugh::usflag:

wanabe
10-15-2008, 10:11 AM
And it probably used about 2 gallon of oil a day? The old detroits are gm and are junk as well!

East Coast Lawn Choppers
10-15-2008, 07:37 PM
Some can handle it some can't it's not worth seeing if yours can or can't
As far as flooding diesels, they don't flood like a gas engine, sounds more like a lack of fuel, try bleeding again and be careful.
Follow GravelyNut's advice

Glad to see that some people can read and only a few can't figure out what "some can handle some can't" means...
He is talking about a yanmar most of them have a very big warning sticker on them, the smaller ones of them with the glow plugs are not good candidates for fluid. Only speaking from rebuilding experience from hundreds of rebuilds...
Some will bust the ring lands right off... expensive repair for not finding the reason it wouldn't start...