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Gravel Rat
10-09-2008, 08:22 PM
This isn't doom and gloom just a fact with the USA economy sinking faster than the Titananic pulling down everything with it. It is causing people not to spend any money. I'am seeing it where I live getting even slower people are not spending any money.

I didn't think that many people in my area played in the stock market and with them loosing money. After the US bailout didn't do anything and the world markets started taking a dive bomb its shaken up investors. Its becoming another nail in the realestate coffin with people pulling out of realestate deals because they are worried about spending money. Investors and people with money are hanging on to what they have and not spreading it around.

Pretty hard to be positive when other people are saying its not a good situation.

The people in construction and related jobs are being laid off or only getting a few days a week. New construction is getting close to non existant. Landclearing and developing is non existant excavation contractors have equipment sitting with no work. Even landscaping has dropped off because people are cutting back on spending.

The big problem contractors are not getting paid so they can't afford to keep paying employees with no money coming in. These guys are struggling to keep in the black. The bills keep rolling in money rolling out with dribbles of money rolling in. I know a few companies that are owed thousands of dollars some are owed over 20 grand. People are getting put on COD lists. I know excavation contractors spend half their time trying to collect money and its getting worse.

I think I might be joining the crowd that is saying the States "beeped up" and screwed up the world credit market. You know how tough its going to be to get a bank loan now. It will be next to impossible to get a mortgage for a house.

Yep I'am ranting yes I'am frustrated that things are going to chit. Moving to another area isn't going to help my situation with jobs in short supply all over B.C. . I'am stuck in a rut and its getting deeper now its thank god I have a job.

Go ahead and bash me all you want :laugh:

DUSTYCEDAR
10-09-2008, 08:37 PM
What kind of cheese do u like

JB1
10-09-2008, 08:38 PM
glad you told me, I hadn't heard that on any radio or tv yet.

Lazer_Z
10-09-2008, 08:40 PM
Here we go again http://emoticons4u.com/music/3.gif

I'm so glad you are on my ignore list GR, I love the ignore feature!

Dirtman2007
10-09-2008, 09:01 PM
I don't even watch the news anymore. As long as I've got plenty of work to do and work planned out I'm good for a while. Money is still flowing good around here with a bunch of projects going on. Fellow I'm working for currently has more money than he knows what to do with, Never asking for how much it will be... just do it.

I'm booked for the rest of the year.

RockSet N' Grade
10-09-2008, 09:04 PM
We have 6 jobs in front of us.........had 4, but got two more today. Bidding another tomorrow......

bobcat_ron
10-09-2008, 09:40 PM
My brother has work lined right up to March 2009, nothing but large barns and pre-loadings jobs. With the real estate market here going down, people are buying land and wanting it "changed".

It's doing pretty darn good here.

wanabe
10-09-2008, 09:45 PM
Hmmm, Then why are they still building new subdivisions in my area? One developer is spending 4 million on a subdivision to just stabilize the ground. They are building over a old coal mine. I guess that they plan on selling them?

Gravel Rat
10-09-2008, 09:58 PM
Ignore me all you want your president is screwed up the world economy.

I really don't care anymore I hope the USA does go into a deep recession you guys created the mess. The USA is creating massive unemployment with the credit market is in touble. I guess the millions of people unemployeed in the USA doesn't mean anything. There was 150,000 jobs lost in the USA in one month. The US gov't spends 700 billion dollars worth of of money and does nothing it makes the credit problem worse.

It is disgusting how things went from good to bad so fast. With the banks being tighter than a virgin with money there isn't much hope for me buying a house.

I hate seeing guys that have been in the excavation business all their life struggle. I hate seeing jobs that kept generations of famillies employeed for decades disapear like a fart in the wind.

Even the scrap metal market fell out because the US economy is doing so bad.Scrap steel went from 250 a ton to 100 a ton. Hauling and recycling scrap was keeping people employeed for a year.

Ohwell you guys are screwed but choose to ignore it figuring the problem will magicly will go away.

I find it funny how the wool is pulled over your guys eyes just the way the US gov't wants it. Keep you guys out of the loop and when it comes time to pay back the debt they will take every cent you own even the clothes off your back.

I'am glad to be Canadian and live in a country that isn't so far into debt and doesn't owe other countries trillions of dollars. I hope you guys are learning mandarine so when China takes over the USA you can speak the langauge.

Good Luck guys

westcoh
10-10-2008, 01:49 AM
All I can say is as a Canadian myself, I'm embarrased by Gravel Rat's posts, and really hope you guys down in the USA don't think everyone up here thinks like him.

bobcatuser
10-10-2008, 02:20 AM
I'm doing my best to keep the economy going with over 180K spent in the last 7 months on new purchases. What are you doing to help the economy GR?:canadaflag:

Gravel Rat
10-10-2008, 03:59 AM
I can't buy anything the banks consider my 40 grand a year wage not enough to buy **** all. I barely got a 30 grand loan for my truck and even then I'am paying through the nose because I'am classed as "High Risk". I have a freaking gauranteed job I'am not self-employeed. With self-employeed people forget it getting a bank loan is next to impossible.

Getting a mortage for a house I can't even qualify I don't make enough money. Yep a little bitter that a "Job" that is considered good pay can't buy zip and you live pay check to pay check. The worst part of it all if the economy in Canada tanks my job will be considered the highest annual income.

If the economy does go for the swirl down the toilet B.C. will see house forclosures. People are so cashed strapped and in debt they can't afford to loose their job. To own a house you need two incomes to pay the 1500-2000 dollar a month house payment.

The B.C. gov't thinks a 8.50 dollar per hour job is good paying :rolleyes:

Now the stupid idiot gov't wants to import foreign workers from manila its all to drive the wages down. They want to import 30,000 people a year.

B.C. residents are working poor if the economy in B.C. goes down even further its nothing but bad news. The only industry B.C. had left was realestate and now that is taking a beating.

I don't know what is going to happen there might be quite a few people not having any presents a Christmas this year. Many people may not have a job come december. Forestry isn't a job supplier anymore, construction has been providing jobs for the last few years but with building dropping off construction jobs are going away. Can't afford to live off a grocery store wage you couldn't even pay your house rent. There is no other employment with muni jobs all taken. Being self-employeed your going to be broke.

RockSet N' Grade
10-10-2008, 10:31 AM
"Being self-employed you're going to be broke"......Nice - I am sure that is exactly what Joe Kennedy did NOT think during a time like this and he did OK and anyone else with a strong spirit....If you want real news, I am sure the newspaper will really help you out in a big way......we use the newspaper to start a fire in our fireplace, only good use I have found.....
Does this Grovel Rot mind set represent the majority of the mind-set of our next generation?>

bobcat_ron
10-10-2008, 10:39 AM
I'm doing my best to keep the economy going with over 180K spent in the last 7 months on new purchases. What are you doing to help the economy GR?:canadaflag:


Well, at least your financial loaner/bank is happy with you.

A poor bugger like me can't do that kind of thing, I am in the same boat as GR, but I'm the Captain.

GR is the deck boy. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/tongueout.gif

Gravel Rat
10-10-2008, 03:41 PM
Any time I went into the bank to see about a loan it was sorry your self employed. I wasn't any different anybody self-employeed had to borrow money from private lenders. The only way my brother could get money to buy stuff for his business was through a private lender. I couldn't ever build my general contracting business because I never could get any money.

With the situation now trying to get a loan will be nearly impossible even if you own a house for collateral it will be tough.

I was really surprised I got a loan for 30 grand but the bank loves it I pay 760 a month for my truck I think the interest they were going to make is 8-10 grand.

Being self-employeed in B.C. isn't easy because you need a full time accountant just to deal with the friggin tax B.S.

Right now anybody self-employeed in the construction are going for a rough ride. With work dropping off to below early 90s recession levels these guys will be cutting back on expenses laying off employees etc. The excavation contractors with high equipment payments might be giving the equipment back to the dealer. I don't want to be a contractor with a 10 grand a month payment.

Like I said before a developer said to me at the start of this economic boom he said went it ends its going to hurt. He said it is rising too fast and when it falls it will fall fast. Well he was right it rose fast and it fell faster than a lead balloon. He is the only contractor I know of that hasn't sunk himself into debt.

Currently its starting to look like the 80s all over again with non existant work no realestate sales the only thing missing is the 17% interest rate at the bank.

IMAGE
10-10-2008, 04:31 PM
Here we go again http://emoticons4u.com/music/3.gif

I'm so glad you are on my ignore list GR, I love the ignore feature!

had seen others talk of this. didnt see the point, until about 5 threads just complaining. Gonna go find that ignore feature right now!

ksss
10-10-2008, 05:17 PM
Now the stupid idiot gov't wants to import foreign workers from manila its all to drive the wages down. They want to import 30,000 people a year.



Well GR if they import 30K people a year from Manila. I would say your chances of getting laid just increased exponentially. Maybe the Gov. isn't as silly as you think they are. I am sure there is a fillipino gal who would "love you long time". There is always a silver lining. The best thing is she wouldn't mind living with your mom at all. These Western women don't dig liven with Ma, but a chick from the Pie would be all over that.

Lawnworks
10-10-2008, 06:16 PM
GR... you had better lock your gun cabinet and throw away the key. One of these days, you might get the right idea about yourself.

YellowDogSVC
10-10-2008, 06:18 PM
I think what we are all seeing here are tough times ahead in the short term in that there will be more restrictions put on credit. The housing boom and subsequent refinance boom is over for the time being. The monies that people pulled out of their equity to use for landscaping and clearing is all but history in the near term.

People that had finances in order and can afford services will continue to spend money. If you are established, offer good work, and have ethics, your company very possibly will grow while other, less established companies and fly by nighters will fold.

I think we have seen and are seeing the bad side of a consumer based economy. I think it has reached critical mass. Either it will get better or it will implode. I choose to think that what we are seeing, figuratively, is the pot being pulled off the burner before it boils over. It is still hot but will cool off gradually.
For example, a few months ago all you heard about was oil prices. Many of us whined that our profits dried up with the cost of fuel. The high cost of fuel also hurt the automobile and especially the truck and equipment industry. As oil prices climbed, oil and oil services stocks climbed as well. Now that the markets are regressing, the oil prices are dropping off quickly. That alone is a reason to feel that the pot was pulled off the burner just in time. We all saw prices rise on everything from soda and macaroni and cheese to packages delivered by Fed Ex and UPS because of the high oil prices which drove up costs for raw materials, manufacturing, and delivery. Now that oil prices are dropping, over time, you will see some of the consumer prices moderate.

What does this mean?

It means that when consumers start to feel there is hope and value, they will begin to spend again. If the consumers begin to spend, then the manufacturers will have to ramp up production and delivery and eventually hiring. Thus, the cycle will start again.
This is an oversimplification of a complex market, however, it really isn't that hard to understand. Look at the stock market. Fear is driving stock prices down. Does anyone really think that a multibillion dollar company with many assets is worth only $2.76 as one of the largest automobile companies is trading at? Stocks are way undervalued. When investors start to smell a bargain, they will start buying and stock prices (stock value) will rise as shares are bought up. I don't know where the floor is on the stock prices and it is liable to be another 1000 pts. down but there will be a floor. The money is still out there. It is just under mattresses, in savings accounts, and tied up in real estate, bonds, and other securities that are basically illiquid in a market reacting out of fear.

I don't think things will get better overnight nor do I think we are in for 2-3 years of a great depression. I could be all wrong but I think people these days are used to having stuff and will start to spend as soon as they feel safer. Our media has a short attention span unless it's a missing coed so you will see the news change soon. Maybe it will be another war or an election scandal, but the doom and gloom news will change to another story. When consumers aren't told day in and day out that the world is coming to an end, they will get back to their old ways and spend. While that can be a good thing, I think consumers should be more thrifty and w
ork on building up their savings accounts before buying a new car but that's just me.
If you want to help, I think that people in the US and Canada should pressure their elected officials to lower taxes and reign in spending on pork and state run services that are basically bleeding the economies to death through a 1000 cuts. If everyone acted frugally, but continued to spend on necessities and went on with their lives you would see an quicker recovery. People are still going to need (and want) new cars, trucks, and machinery but they will now need to have a bit of savings to plop down.
If the government would lower taxes and then look at reigning in the ability of banks to package junk bonds (ie., high risk loans) we wouldn't have the catalyst to the mess we are in now. We also need mother nature to cooperate by sparing the gulf states from hurricanes so that oil and gas production (the energy we need to grow) remains reasonably priced. The government should throw out some of the environmental whacko rules and regulations while encouraging and enforcing prudence (through fines and clean up bonds posted by the oil companies) and open up drilling in sensitive areas. Once we are on the road to self-reliance through oil and gas production, wind power, nuclear and upgrading hydro and maybe some solar, we have taken away one of the key elements that restricts economic growth, cheap energy. We also need to allow the building of infrastructure like refineries and nuclear power plants but that's a whole other debate.

Of course, this is a cycle and it will eventually repeat itself. A free market always corrects itself. If there is too much supply (as in housing market) then home prices fall. When home prices fall, and there is a an oversupply of homes on the market, housing starts fall off. If housing starts fall off, logging slows, construction slows, and equipment sales slow. Labor falls off and unemployment goes up.
If people are out of work or scared and aren't buying anything companies don't have the incentive to produce and the supply side and delivery side both slow as a result. Everything is tied together and it usually works with very little interference however, when you have people working outside of the system, ie., bankers, insurance companies, and investment brokers packaging, buying and selling high risk junk bonds knowing that they are leveraged beyond what is reasonable (the sub prime notes packaged together) and using our money as capital, then they are creating an atmosphere where very high risk evolves into instability. These companies aren't leaving any cash in their reserves to hedge against slow times and economic hiccups. They look for the big, quick profits and forget about risk. In gambling, the house always wins in the long run. You can't do that with a personals life insurance money or a 401k that has built over a lifetime of work. This just illustrates why the AIG situation, which clearly upset the markets, is a lesson in what not to do.
The bottom line is we will climb out of this hole we are in but it will take determination and you may have to do some crap work or lower your prices in the short term to create value for your customers. Yeah, I'm scared but when you sit down and unpack it, I think we can fix it and the US and Canada too will eventually prosper again.

Sorry for the LONG post. I have nothing else to do today because I'm out off work until Monday! :)

IMAGE
10-10-2008, 06:38 PM
Yellowdog you da man. Right on!

(i also dont understand why i still see GR's posts after putting him on ignore? maybe because I had posted in here allready?)

Gravel Rat
10-10-2008, 07:09 PM
The gov't wants to bring in people from manila to "Supposidy" fill the labour shortage in the construction. If there is no construction because people don't have the money there is no labour shortage.

Oh will it be funny when you guys loose your job your house and everything you own. I guess the american citizens don't realize once the repo man starts taking things they will take all of it.

Good Luck you can ignore me all you want yep I'am complaining because my job is on the line or my hours reduced. If I do loose my job there isn't even any truck driving jobs. Getting work with a excavation contractor is very little to slim. Going back to welding full time isn't possible because the work isn't there. The some guys I know that work in the ship yards are laid off no work. The welding shops in the area are dead no demand for steel fab.

Lanscaping is slow and with the market flooded with landscapers they are fighting for the same job.

The job market is tough if your making less than 16 dollars per hour I feel bad for you because your living on poverty wages.

Oh well when the USA finally collaspes into a deep recession and you guys south of the boarder are broker than broke we will see what happens to the rest of the world economy.

If the US economy is doing so good why is the stock market going for a dump.Why is there massive job losses in the USA. Why is there millions of homes forclosed. Why does the US gov't have to bail out banks.

This is going to be fun watching the news seeing the USA turn into Ethiopia.

I'am done complaining for now :drinkup: nothing is going to be as bad as what the USA is going to see. Old George is doing a perfect job sinking your guys country so far in to debt, even had to add two more spaces to the debt clock.

He keeps spending your tax money like its going out of style wait till they have to raise your income tax to pay for the debt.

Lots of fun :laugh:

I don't own guns but I'am laughing now after thinking how screwed you guys are. Watch a few Michael Moore movies and you can see what he says about his fellow Americans. Bush snaps his fingers and you guys jump to it.

Anyhow good luck you guys in the USA are going to need it :canadaflag:

grassmanvt
10-10-2008, 07:24 PM
The bank can't take what you own. I personally haven't seen a huge difference from the last few years to now but my business isn't so closely affected. But, to those who saw a huge boom and ate it up, the smart ones still haven't finished counting the loot. Got to plan for the not so good times. Luckily in life the worst times have to go up but conversely, the best times go down. I don't call it a depression, I call it reality. For the most part the money is still there, it didn't evaporate. This is a fear base economy. The bright lining I see is with energy prices slowly falling, that should help a lot of the stretched to the penny people and in turn help the mindset of the average person. Hopefully helping spending and allowing some of the saved energy costs to go to other things.

YellowDogSVC
10-10-2008, 07:40 PM
I don't own guns but I'am laughing now after thinking how screwed you guys are. Watch a few Michael Moore movies and you can see what he says about his fellow Americans. Bush snaps his fingers and you guys jump to it.

Anyhow good luck you guys in the USA are going to need it :canadaflag:

I'm not sure where all this angers comes from. It isn't Bush's fault though he didn't cut back on spending when we went to war. Bush also hasn't passed up on spending money on projects that could have waited while we rooted out terrorrists but that's another debate..

I don't think there is any chance of America turning into Ethiopia. Unless we have an absolute depression, dust-bowl conditions, and no fuel I don't think America will stop anytime soon. Yeah, it's possible but highly unlikely. The depression and dust bowl conditions in the 1930's were a combination of an agrarian society, no irrigation, and a prolonged drought that happened to coincide with a true depression.
During the depression, however, people still made money. The stock market continued to go up and down just as it does today.
Things are different now than they were back then. For one thing, there is a segment of industry that is being used to support our military efforts that wasn't there in the 1930's.
Are we in a crisis? Sure. Are we at a crossroads? You bet. We need to start, as a society, to become more fiscally responsible. We need to save, spend thrifty, conserve, and look for ways to make ourselves self-reliant on energy. This is a wake up call. If we wake up and make the right choices, as a society, then we will make it out of this bad dream. If we stay on the course we are on and try to fix a broken main with band-aids, then we will be in real trouble. The new deal didn't work but instead created a welfare class that has evolved into an entitlement class of today. I say, cut back on the taxes, cut out the fat from the national budget, wrap up this war on terror, and get back to making America a safe place to raise our kids where we can spend more time worrying about the teams in the Super Bowl than whether or not our 401k or IRA will be there when we need it.

Bottom line, you can choose to stick your head in the sand or do nothing or you can stand up and fight. In America, we have an election in less than a month. You vote out the clowns and bring in some fresh ideas. Free up the corporations to compete globally and that will generate and protect American jobs.
Take time off if you are laid off or slow and educate yourself in your area of expertise.
If you are in your 30's, 40's, or early 50's don't worry or even look at your 410k or IRA. Yeah, it sucks right now but history shows us i will go back up.

If America fails, we will take Canada down with us. None of us want that to happen unless you are part of a militant Islamic sleeper cell that is hell-bent on destruction of the West.
We need to encourage, and if that doesn't work, use our boots to persuade, the governement officials to get out of the way and let the economy rebound. If you have to look at the stock market, look at it as "on sale" and invest. It will probably go down a bit but it won't be this low for too long. Like I mentioned in my earlier post, once people feel safe and smell a bargain, they will buy.

Lawnworks
10-10-2008, 07:48 PM
The gov't wants to bring in people from manila to "Supposidy" fill the labour shortage in the construction. If there is no construction because people don't have the money there is no labour shortage.

Oh will it be funny when you guys loose your job your house and everything you own. I guess the american citizens don't realize once the repo man starts taking things they will take all of it.

Good Luck you can ignore me all you want yep I'am complaining because my job is on the line or my hours reduced. If I do loose my job there isn't even any truck driving jobs. Getting work with a excavation contractor is very little to slim. Going back to welding full time isn't possible because the work isn't there. The some guys I know that work in the ship yards are laid off no work. The welding shops in the area are dead no demand for steel fab.

Lanscaping is slow and with the market flooded with landscapers they are fighting for the same job.

The job market is tough if your making less than 16 dollars per hour I feel bad for you because your living on poverty wages.

Oh well when the USA finally collaspes into a deep recession and you guys south of the boarder are broker than broke we will see what happens to the rest of the world economy.

If the US economy is doing so good why is the stock market going for a dump.Why is there massive job losses in the USA. Why is there millions of homes forclosed. Why does the US gov't have to bail out banks.

This is going to be fun watching the news seeing the USA turn into Ethiopia.

I'am done complaining for now :drinkup: nothing is going to be as bad as what the USA is going to see. Old George is doing a perfect job sinking your guys country so far in to debt, even had to add two more spaces to the debt clock.

He keeps spending your tax money like its going out of style wait till they have to raise your income tax to pay for the debt.

Lots of fun :laugh:

I don't own guns but I'am laughing now after thinking how screwed you guys are. Watch a few Michael Moore movies and you can see what he says about his fellow Americans. Bush snaps his fingers and you guys jump to it.

Anyhow good luck you guys in the USA are going to need it :canadaflag:

You know what the funny part is... if we hit rough finanancial times you will probably be worst off than most of us. Kinda nice when everything including my house is paid off(as of Dec 08). And I am 25! You are a pathetic loser that can't even figure out how to get out of mom's house!

Micheal Moore... geez. You are gullible wacko. Do you even know what the CRA is? Have you done any research? Do you know who was behind that legislation. or are so IGNORANT that all you can to do is blame Bush?

YellowDogSVC
10-10-2008, 07:52 PM
Y Kinda nice when everything including my house is paid off(as of Dec 08). And I am 25! Y?

Good for you. You obviously know about spend thrifty and savings. Great job! I bet you don't run up credit cards either. If you keep on like this, you will retire very, very wealthy! If only I knew at 25 what I do at 39.. :(

qps
10-10-2008, 08:29 PM
You know what the funny part is... if we hit rough finanancial times you will probably be worst off than most of us. Kinda nice when everything including my house is paid off(as of Dec 08). And I am 25! You are a pathetic loser that can't even figure out how to get out of mom's house!

Micheal Moore... geez. You are gullible wacko. Do you even know what the CRA is? Have you done any research? Do you know who was behind that legislation. or are so IGNORANT that all you can to do is blame Bush?

Let's get something straight,,,,,he lives in an RV in the driveway..like cousin Eddie in Christmas Vacation...GR...you need a swift kick in the A$$...or Nut$....KSSS...you made me laugh out loud...thanks bro...my feeling is GR you aren't welcome, I believe in free speech but you push it to far...how does the song go..you gotta stand for something or you'll fall for anything"....wait...I hear you mom calling....the pizza rolls are done:cool2:

Gravel Rat
10-10-2008, 10:15 PM
I can't afford a house because in B.C. you need to make a minimum 80-100 grand a year to afford anything. I make 40 grand a year and the bank don't loan out money like they do in the USA and now look at what happened in the USA.

Did you know in the peak of the realestate boom B.C.s house prices rivaled California and exceeding it. Housing costs in B.C. increased over 100% for what we can buy here for 200,000 will get you a empty 1/8 of a acre lot.

There are people that spent 2-3 million dollars on a "Summer House" they won't live in it full time its only used for 2-3 months of the year. There are places in B.C. the rich people drove the prices up so high the year round residents can barely afford to live in the community.

The cost of living in B.C. is very high. Take for example to rent a house or basement suite costs 850-1200 dollars a month. The cost of food in B.C. is higher. The cost of gas is higher, repairing your vehical costs more and vehicals cost more to buy. The same spec'ed P/U truck in the USA is a easy 5-10 grand cheaper.

My truck payment its 760 dollars a month thats to buy a 5 year old truck its the only way I can get some faith in the bank. I have a gov't job thats not good enough for the bank.

I will never beable to own a house where I live like most guys my age 32 have to inherit a familly memebers house. Most places in B.C. the house prices are unattainable for a single person with a average income ie 40 grand.

My brother makes more than I do last year he grossed 20 grand more than I did. The bank just laughed when he asked for a mortage.

People that work in grocery stores have to work two jobs or up to 16 hours a day just to make enough money to rent a house. In alot of places in B.C. where there is work finding a place to rent is very tough. If you do find a place its gone in a day. People were renting 16 foot travel trailers for 250 dollars a month.

As for Bush screwing up B.C. he did. Free trade my azz he slapped so much tarriff on B.C. lumber it cut B.C. lumber sales to the USA. Once the lumber sales decreased the job losses started. Now in the lumber industry in B.C. over 20,000 jobs lost which were good paying jobs. No lumber mills no logging more jobs lost companies in business for 40 years out of business. Because B.C. could sell lumber cheaper than what US sawmills could cut it for Bush got scared the US mills were complaining. Well that just drove the price up to build a house in the USA because it cost more for US cut lumber.

Dailmer Chrysler bought Western Star truck moved the operation to the USA that removed couple hundred jobs and millions of dollars of spin offs. Western Star plant in Kelowna was a steady employer.

Once these private power projects are finished in B.C. we can turn off the switch that supplies power to the West Coast of USA. Alot of places in California will be sitting in the dark. The US west coast has a large shortage of drinking water well B.C. can turn that tap off. B.C. also sell millions of tons of gravel to the USA each year. From Washington state to California the LaFarge cement trucks is hauling aggregate from B.C. .

Sea food is shipped to the USA each year from B.C. . Fish farm fish is sold all throughout the USA the americans love the mushy greasy fish. Oysters is another big seller along with caviar. Illegal herbs is sold to the USA it is the number 1 seller. If herbs was legalized in the USA B.C. would be rich because its a billion dollar a year sales.

Canada can be self sufficient because we do have all the natural resources that the USA has to import. The USA now imports more good than it makes so long "American Made" to hello cheap crap from China. Look at the automotive sector the statement of America General Motors its in such deep trouble that who knows if they will be in business much longer. Ford isn't doing much better. Look at Dodge owned by the Germans or used to be.

How many jobs got exported to mexico out of the USA. The scary part now B.C. is importing mexicans to work for cheap labour :dizzy:

If the USA does go into a recession which it probably will Canadian ecomomist say we will feel a little down turn. Canada just needs to find better trading partner for the goods produced in Canada.

Your US gov't has more interest in what is happening overseas and war than keeping the USA citizens employeed. Now its back fired.

Why were US banks allowed to lend money to people that can't pay the money back. So your guys tax money is paying for somebody elses mistake.

Untill the credit market gets straightened out it will be a long time before money starts flowing again in Canada.

Money is evil it always has been and always will be. Richer get richer and poorer get poorer. All the US members of this site can be classed as working poor. The CND members also are in the same boat. Atleast Canadians question why the gov't is spending tax money foolishly where as you guys don't seem to question your gov't.

Does your tax money provide you guys a heath care system. Does your tax money provide needed services. Why is Bush spending billions of dollars of your hard earned money on a war that will never end ?

Anyhow you guys let it happen now its a mess.

Maybe this recession shake you guys up in the USA.

stuvecorp
10-10-2008, 10:40 PM
[QUOTE=Gravel Rat;2550233]I can't afford a house because in B.C. you need to make a minimum 80-100 grand a year to afford anything.QUOTE]

:hammerhead::dizzy::nono::cry::sleeping::confused:Maybe if you thought outside of the box, you would be living in your own house? I will export a double wide to you so you can have a home. Honestly why do you do what you do? How do you get out of bed? Maybe BCRon can send you some happy pills.

corey4671
10-10-2008, 10:55 PM
hey GR...kiss my hairy red white and blue ASS! :usflag: Oh BTW...the reason our gvt allowed loans to be made to people who couldn't pay was due to the wonderful CLINTON administration!! NOT BUSH YOU MORON!! GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!!

YellowDogSVC
10-10-2008, 10:59 PM
I wonder who takes care of all the rich people in Vale, Colorado? I mean, do they bus in the landscapers, waiters, cops, street cleaners, firemen and women, and bus them out at night because a single wide can go for $250k on 1/8 AC in Vale? C'mon.
I'm sure there are some poor people with houses in B.C.

What resources does Canada have the the US doesn't? Canada needs a larger market to sell it's goods and the US is a stone's throw away so it just makes sense. We use your resources and you make some money. When your resources are used up, we will exploit another country. After all, Americans are just lazy and go around screwing up everyone else's parade.

GR, I used to defend your right to free speech but I think you crossed a line blaming the US for all the world's woes. Yeah, the US isn't perfect but we are the one's the world turns to make injustices right. Yes Bush has been an awful example of spending out of control but he has also kept the western hemisphere free of terror for the past 7 years+.
You make your own way in life. I think the poison pill of the governent will fix it for me has to be puked back up. The government won't fix anything. It isn't designed to. Free markets will fix things and it is fixing the greedy and unscrupulous bankers right now. Unfortunately, a lot of us had our money invested in one or both of the best vehicles for wealth building, real estate and the stock market.
I think some butts should be held accountable for the massive screw up. I also think that there isn't much we can do now except accept it and work towards a common solution.
If Canada wants the Mexicans then she can have them. Maybe the rapes, murders, drunk drivers without insurance, theft, and border violence will decrease in Texas.
I don't need the government to provide my health care. My family budgets an absurd amount each month so that I can go anywhere I want at anytime I want and get the world's best health care. You don't see anyone rushing to Mexico or Canada to visit a Johns Hopkins. Those great places are reserved for free market medicine.

I certainly don't agree that I am a member in good standing of the working poor. I happen to live right next door to very wealthy people. I don't see their life, health, equipment, or land any better than my own. Yeah, I have some notes and I'm probably over extended given recent events but I'm free to do, grow and become as big or as successful as I want whether it's a bull market, bear market, or recession leading to a depression.
Maybe I will drink the kool-aide soon and give up. Yes, I get worried and don't sleep as well as I did a few months ago but I am convinced that if you work hard you will provide for yourself and your family.

I told GR a while back to check out www.daveramsey.com I think he should read a little taking control of your own finances. If everyone did that, then we wouldn't need the government for anything other than defense and crappy service at the DMV.

stuvecorp
10-10-2008, 11:09 PM
Yellowdog, you and RockSet always have some good points.

corey4671
10-10-2008, 11:09 PM
I wonder who takes care of all the rich people in Vale, Colorado? I mean, do they bus in the landscapers, waiters, cops, street cleaners, firemen and women, and bus them out at night because a single wide can go for $250k on 1/8 AC in Vale? C'mon.
I'm sure there are some poor people with houses in B.C.

What resources does Canada have the the US doesn't? Canada needs a larger market to sell it's goods and the US is a stone's throw away so it just makes sense. We use your resources and you make some money. When your resources are used up, we will exploit another country. After all, Americans are just lazy and go around screwing up everyone else's parade.

GR, I used to defend your right to free speech but I think you crossed a line blaming the US for all the world's woes. Yeah, the US isn't perfect but we are the one's the world turns to make injustices right. Yes Bush has been an awful example of spending out of control but he has also kept the western hemisphere free of terror for the past 7 years+.
You make your own way in life. I think the poison pill of the governent will fix it for me has to be puked back up. The government won't fix anything. It isn't designed to. Free markets will fix things and it is fixing the greedy and unscrupulous bankers right now. Unfortunately, a lot of us had our money invested in one or both of the best vehicles for wealth building, real estate and the stock market.
I think some butts should be held accountable for the massive screw up. I also think that there isn't much we can do now except accept it and work towards a common solution.
If Canada wants the Mexicans then she can have them. Maybe the rapes, murders, drunk drivers without insurance, theft, and border violence will decrease in Texas.
I don't need the government to provide my health care. My family budgets an absurd amount each month so that I can go anywhere I want at anytime I want and get the world's best health care. You don't see anyone rushing to Mexico or Canada to visit a Johns Hopkins. Those great places are reserved for free market medicine.

I certainly don't agree that I am a member in good standing of the working poor. I happen to live right next door to very wealthy people. I don't see their life, health, equipment, or land any better than my own. Yeah, I have some notes and I'm probably over extended given recent events but I'm free to do, grow and become as big or as successful as I want whether it's a bull market, bear market, or recession leading to a depression.
Maybe I will drink the kool-aide soon and give up. Yes, I get worried and don't sleep as well as I did a few months ago but I am convinced that if you work hard you will provide for yourself and your family.

I told GR a while back to check out www.daveramsey.com I think he should read a little taking control of your own finances. If everyone did that, then we wouldn't need the government for anything other than defense and crappy service at the DMV.

:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:

doubleedge
10-10-2008, 11:15 PM
I hope you guys are learning mandarine so when China takes over the USA you can speak the langauge.


The Chinese will have to take our country over our dead bodies, debt or not.

Why don't you save your money until you can afford a house? Have family? If not, you can be putting away 10k-15k a year. A couple years of that and your down payment should be more than enough for the bank to give you a loan with a decent interest rate.

bobcat_ron
10-10-2008, 11:23 PM
Yellowdog you da man. Right on!

(i also dont understand why i still see GR's posts after putting him on ignore? maybe because I had posted in here allready?)

The ignore feature only blocks PM and other messages, not threads/posts from that person you are trying to ignore.

SuperDuty335
10-10-2008, 11:38 PM
It seems to me a $760 truck payment would go a long way toward a mortgage. By the way don't insult our country anymore; It is still the greatest nation in the world.
While the bankers and stock brokers and all those other yahoos are in a mess some of us that have integrity and a back bone are finding work and keeping things going and we will eventually bring the country back into shape. Then you will thank us.

qps
10-11-2008, 12:25 AM
So your 32 and still live at home...or right outside home (driveway).....I would have never admitted that on a public forum........let me guess....no wife...no girlfriend...I know..that's our fault also....your truck payment is 7 something a month....wow...my mini payment is 1100.00 alone....I've had a bad year...business is tough around here.....am I blaming everybody and there brother...NO...I'll just suck it up..work harder and come back stronger....that's the difference between you and the rest of us...you guys should do all your business with France..

KTM
10-11-2008, 12:29 AM
no wonder you don't have any money, If I made 40k a year there is no way in hell I would have a $760 payment for a fuel guzzler. You have to make real money to spend $760 for A truck payment. I am not ripping on you for what you make, but I live in A affordable area and 1 40k income is not going to get you much of a house with out some saving and thought.

Gravel Rat
10-11-2008, 12:32 AM
The bank requires you put down 20% before you can get a mortgage. A cheap house here is 300,000 I would need a 60,000 dollar down payment. Even if I could save 1000 dollars a month I still wouldn't have enough money for a down payment.

Everybody I talk to asks me what I make per year and I tell them 40 grand and they say thats all you make.

A 40 grand a year income is about average for B.C. . A deck hand on a fishboat depending on how good the season is will make 60-70,000 a year for 3 months of work. Now that fishing is so bad deckhand jobs are few and the money isn't that good because its been over fished.

My take home pay is about 31,000 the gov't takes 9000 dollars off my annual salary.

I have friends in the realestate and a aunt that works in the bank they have crunched the numbers and said I'am out of luck. Just the way it is.

All I care about now is if I can keep my job you can't trust the B.C. govt.



Oh ya I haven't called anybody a moron and I haven't bad mouthed anybody. I'am just stating my opinion and what I see. You guys don't have any free speech you guys live in a Communist country and don't even know it.

Would Canadians let our Prime minister sink the country deep into debt No
Would we let the gov't spend 700 million worth of tax money No

I would say we have more freedom and right to speech here in Canada than what you guys have in the USA.

If you guys don't think the USA hasn't affected the credit crisis turn on the TV and watch the news or are you scared to see the truth. The USA is a big country that has alot of effect money wise. Watch the stock market.

I think you guys should take the blinders off and watch the news look outside the fish bowl.

Like I said I have met lots of american tourist many of them if they could would become full time Canadian residents. I have nothing against americans but I don't agree with your president but thats my opinion.

I don't agree with war I don't like to see soldiers being injured or killed. I didn't like to see what happened with 911 with thousands of people killed for no reason. War never solves anything. I imagine some of you guys have friends or familly serving overseas hopefully they come back alive.

CAT powered
10-11-2008, 12:41 AM
War never solved anything. Except stopping the Nazis, Facism, slavery in the United States...

I have a good buddy in Iraq right now. I've known him since highschool. He says that the war in Iraq is worth fighting so I believe him. I trust him a whole heck of a lot more than the extreme liberal media.

KTM
10-11-2008, 12:43 AM
If you take home 31 k they don;t tax you as much as here. My wife's income is 40k and she takes home about 27k. seriously though your throwing money away paying A truck payment like that on your income, you would make more with that money else where. I know rich people that would never spend that on a truck.

Gravel Rat
10-11-2008, 02:10 AM
My truck payment is cheap my brothers buddies are paying 1200 a month for their F-350 Crew cabs. Trucks are expensive and dealing with used trucks isn't worth the hassel. The reason why I got a 2003 F-450 is I'am tired of dealing with old worn out junk. I was hoping the truck would make some money this year but the work I usually get during the summer didn't happen.

I have to establish a credit rating buying this truck is doing so. I paid 12 grand of it off when I sold my other truck. I only owe 12 grand and I will have the truck paid off in 2 years. My loan was for 4 years.

I will have to deal with the 40 grand a year job for a couple more years.

I have to live in my parents basement there is no places to rent where I live unless I want to live in somebodies 16 foot travel trailer or live in a tent.

I would like to buy a place its why I stuck with the gov't job thinking it would be easier to get a mortgage. Not a chance the bank says not enough income. Trust me I have had people look into it for me. Now the bottom fell out of the realestate market house prices are still not dropping.

A 21 dollar per hour job is a low wage for todays cost of living. A gallon jug of milk costs 5 dollars a brick of butter is 4 dollars. Still paying 4.85 a gallon for diesel fuel. My fuel expenses per month is 300 dollars. I only put 576 miles on a month.

A friend of mine started his own excavation business 4 years ago the only way he could do it was have his parents pay for the equipment. The bank wouldn't loan him a cent they don't loan money to new businesses.

The way she goes if you want money you have to deal with a broker or a private lender. I never could expand what I started when your working on a shoe string budget. The trucks I bought was from money I saved up. As I made money and saved it I upgraded to a newer truck.

Never could start my own excavation business with no money beck in 95 when I got out of highschool the economy sucked it was deader and dead. I struggled along running a trucking business and general contracting. I did landscaping, never could please anybody they wouldn't pay because they figured the job wasn't good enough. I don't do a sloppy job I always do a good job.

It got so bad I had to take a minimum wage job working as a rental shop mechanic working on skid steers and mini excavator so I could pay the bills. Do you know how degrading that feels working for 8.50 per hour but I did the job I had to there was no work.

From 95 to 2002 the economy was really slow it was a mild recession. I worked for excavation contractors on and off they never had steady work. I lived off of 1000 dollars a month for years trying to scratch out a living.

I worked as a welder and pulled wrenches which is why contractors hire me because I can repair equipment. Struggled along till I got my name in with the gov't spend 5 years as a part time employee for the gov't that just paid the bills.

I landed a job with a contractor for a year he needed a wrench puller then I got a full time position with the gov't. My life turned miserable after that dealing with the BS and still dealing with it. I should have stuck it out with the contractor but I couldn't deal with repairing equipment 8 hours a day. Being a mechanic is a thankless job especially when your under the gun trying to get stuff fixed and back working on the job. Laying on your back in mud puddle trying to get a broken part on a truck fixed. Covered in grease and hands bleeding.

Yes there is days I think what in the h*ll I'am I doing you just have to deal with the cards you got in front of you.

I never had anything handed to me I earned every cent its been a struggle for the last 11 years. Now I'am stuck with a job that is driving me insane but its paying the bills and I'am getting some money in the bank.

Scag48
10-11-2008, 02:18 AM
You may not be able to buy a home quite yet GR, it's really hard to do that if you're not making a ton of money. What you need to do is buy something small, like I did, and start SOMEWHERE. A stepping stone, more or less. If you don't ever put your money to work for you, you'll be broke your entire life. Inflation is right around 3% here in the US, someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's fairly close. A typical savings account at a bank produces right around 1%. So, you're money BEHIND every year your money sits in a savings account, you're not even keeping up with inflation.

I bought a piece of property that costs me as much as your truck payment per month, no joke. And it gains at least 20% in value every year very, very easily. I've had it for a year and I could easily sell it tomorrow and take a 30% gross profit, so I figure 20% annual appreciation is very modest. I plan to sit on it for another 8-9 years, sell it, and wham, I can pay CASH for a house if I don't have one already using my property to borrow against a house. You have to start somewhere. You're right, it is tough, but that's difference between you and those who ARE making it. Not going to lie, I'm strapped to my ass every month with the mortgage. I drive a lame car that gets good gas mileage, nothing cool by any means, but I can take the money I save on the car by means of cheaper insurance, better fuel economy, and the loan I have on the car itself that I can put toward my property. The rent on my apartment and mortgage account for $1150 that I pay out every month, which is a little more than half of what I owe. You should have no problem buying a piece of property for about $150K, how many bills could you possbily have other than your truck? You live in a trailer at your mom's house? Seriously man. You need to get rid of that truck and cut that loan by about 60%, buy a cheap car that gets good gas mileage, and start toward property ownership. Get your money out of a depreciating asset and toward something that will produce equity.

Gravel Rat
10-11-2008, 02:49 AM
I have to wait for the property prices to come down there isn't anything on the market for less than 200,000 before taxes. If I'am lucky I was told I could be approved for 100,000 dollars.

I should have bought 4 years ago but the bank wouldn't approve me for a loan because I was part time with the gov't. I could have got 1.5 acres for 150,000 four years ago todays price is 250,000.

There is a house that I have been looking at for 300,000 but any way I slice it I couldn't even handle a 40 year mortage.

For me to get a mortgage I will have to deal with a broker like my brother. He pays a higher interest rate and his payments are high.

Property prices are so overly inflated in my area currently they are overpriced by 50-100,000. If I buy now the property will still loose value because the property values are dropping. The people that bought in the peak of the housing bubble are buying a house 100,000 too much. If they tried to sell it today they wouldn't get what they paid for it. So what they paid for the house they will have to keep the house for 10 years to get any money out of it.

Realtors said they will never see the same spike in house prices like seen in this last housing boom.

If I wait till next year I think prices will drop even further. Prices on places already dropped 150,000.

bobcat_ron
10-11-2008, 10:47 AM
I'm waiting for the heart of the "recession" to hit, I can easily grab a 1 acre chunk of land off a farmer and build my own custom 1500 square foot house, by then everything will be paid off, and it's all money in the bank with no mortgage.

qps
10-11-2008, 11:40 AM
"If I wait to next year".........famous last words my friend...you say you never called anyone a moron or badmouth anyone...wishing that we would lose our houses or jobs is worse, or that you will sit back and laugh when it happens and our economy fails...you are a two faced idiot, quit back peddling you spineless moron...there I called you a moron..if the shoe fits...you are like every right wing liberal...give it to me...I deserve it...I don't want to work for it...:cry:..........

tnmtn
10-11-2008, 12:44 PM
its always wait for something or some other excuse. put the mouse down and just do something. do it for free. it would be much more productive than constantly embarassing yourself among a bunch of people wo actually make a living doing what you pretend to be an expert on and say you can't do where you live. and if its so tough in B.C. say the word and i'm sure a fund would be started to collect bus money for you to go anywhere and get off your backside. same thread diffrent day. and for your info i am not a bush follower. very democrat. and yes from the south with guns.
done here

YellowDogSVC
10-11-2008, 12:55 PM
Yellowdog, you and RockSet always have some good points.

thank you!

YellowDogSVC
10-11-2008, 12:57 PM
It seems to me a $760 truck payment would go a long way toward a mortgage. By the way don't insult our country anymore; It is still the greatest nation in the world.
While the bankers and stock brokers and all those other yahoos are in a mess some of us that have integrity and a back bone are finding work and keeping things going and we will eventually bring the country back into shape. Then you will thank us.

nothing else to add to that. :clapping:

Lawnworks
10-11-2008, 01:09 PM
This is hilarious. A guy that lives in his parent's basement, works for the gov't, has a $760 truck payment(truck doesn't even bring any income), and then blames Bush for his economic situation even though he lives in a DIFFERENT country!

Here is what you really should do. Sell your truck, get a 3k ford ranger and START SAVING YOUR MONEY. I mean you should be able to save an incredible percentage of your income now that you live rent free w/ mommy... I am sure your meals are pretty well taken care of. If you save 20k a year for five years, you could be pretty well set.

I know you are a liberal quack though... it is easier to blame others than try to correct your own deficiencies.

Lawnworks
10-11-2008, 01:12 PM
Good for you. You obviously know about spend thrifty and savings. Great job! I bet you don't run up credit cards either. If you keep on like this, you will retire very, very wealthy! If only I knew at 25 what I do at 39.. :(

I have found some of the wealthiest people are cheap... I work to hard to be pissing away my money. By December my only note will be the commercial property I just bought. I don't have the nicest purtiest equipment and trucks, but its paid for.

Gravel Rat
10-11-2008, 03:55 PM
I'am going to wait till next year because property prices are dropping by Jan-Feb they should be dropped another 100 grand. Property price here never really changed for 15 years. Realtors figure we will see that again prices won't change for a long time.

With the truck if I sell it now I will take a bath on it truck prices have dropped so much I will loose 10 grand. Like I said I only owe 12 grand on the truck and I can have my payments reduced but I left them high so I can get the truck paid for.

I maybe liberal atleast I live in a country that isn't going to see a 1930s recession like the USA is going to see :laugh:

When you guys get a new President things will probably change for the better it might be a good eye opener for you guys. Your tax money will be spent on you guys. Sure amazing thou how you guys don't see that Bush has pretty well distroyed the states. Country is trillions in debt, major unemployment,spends 700 billion of your tax money. Pretty much a dictatorship you guys are GWs puppets he snaps his fingers you jump :dizzy:

Enough rambling you guys have major problems with your economy every US economist on TV says so even world economist says US is in for a recession.

YellowDogSVC
10-11-2008, 04:35 PM
I'am going to wait till next year because property prices are dropping by Jan-Feb they should be dropped another 100 grand. Property price here never really changed for 15 years. Realtors figure we will see that again prices won't change for a long time.

With the truck if I sell it now I will take a bath on it truck prices have dropped so much I will loose 10 grand. Like I said I only owe 12 grand on the truck and I can have my payments reduced but I left them high so I can get the truck paid for.

I maybe liberal atleast I live in a country that isn't going to see a 1930s recession like the USA is going to see :laugh:

When you guys get a new President things will probably change for the better it might be a good eye opener for you guys. Your tax money will be spent on you guys. Sure amazing thou how you guys don't see that Bush has pretty well distroyed the states. Country is trillions in debt, major unemployment,spends 700 billion of your tax money. Pretty much a dictatorship you guys are GWs puppets he snaps his fingers you jump :dizzy:

Enough rambling you guys have major problems with your economy every US economist on TV says so even world economist says US is in for a recession.

don't believe everything you see on the drive-by media. They are in the doom and gloom business and they have an agenda to get a liberal elected so that they can have taxes raised and more children can be fed in 3rd world countries.

If America sinks, you can say goodbye to your way of life too. If I were you, I'd be praying that things turn around. If America goes down, it will take the globe with it. Too much is tied to the dollar and there are too many consumers in this country for other country's goods. We go, you go. Simple as that. Ask the banks in Britain or the country of Iceland what happens when American mortgages look like they are going bad. It's a global ripple effect..

I also wanted to tell you, as a friend, that you don't necessarily need a long credit history to get a mortgage. There are still manual underwriters that won't even look at your credit score but rather, at the individual and his or her earnings over the last few years and prospects going forward. Just some FYI. Not 100% positive that exists in Canadaland but I know it exists here in the good 'old U S of A.

grassmanvt
10-11-2008, 04:45 PM
While I agree bush hasn't done much for this country, I don't like him and the spending is out of control, you give one person way to much credit. Doesn't work like that. Also, a recession isn't necessarily a depression, but by my understanding a negative turn in gdp consecutively. The country is in trouble and needs a true business minded group of leadership to change things around, Unfortunately I don't see the current candidates as such but hopefully I will be surprised. The country is far from done with but like any business, not every quarter can be better than the next. I still think this is more fear based than anything but the first step is a balanced budget and debt reduction, in the process we may not be able to protect as many speckled blue birds and might actually have to spend some money in this country before rebuilding others. While I don't fully agree with the now 800 something million dollar bailout, if the war was cut short just a tad, that would cover it and hopefully go a long ways in restoring consumer confidence. Energy cost reduction will do that as well if that follows suit with the drop in crude. I heard a great quote the other day, a financial guy said don't bet on the end of the world, it will only happen once and the odds are it won't. He was referring to the market and trying to get people to act with thought and ration rather than just follow the leader on a bad day. As I've been saying all along, there is great money to be made in all respects by planning in the bad times and using a little foresight and some careful risk taking for the future. The huge jumps everything took in the last 10 years were way out of control and without proper reasoning but so is the dramatic downturn now.

AintNoFun
10-11-2008, 04:47 PM
gravel rat, you might want to get a carbon dioxide tester for your mothers basement i think your breathing in some harmful fumes....

SinjonAssociates
10-11-2008, 04:54 PM
Seems to me that our problems started almost a decade ago, look at the date of this article: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A96F958260&sec=&spon=&&scp=1&sq=September%2030%201999%20Fanny%20mae&st=cse I think that blame can be placed on both sides of the political isle. They spend more time and money blaming the other side than working on a way to solve the mess that we are in. 

Putting “panic” in perspective
6 facts to help dispel the fear and 10 key reminders for investors
Chief Investment Strategist Corner | October 8, 2008
by James Swanson, CFA
1. In January of 1970, a bear market started that lasted until May of that year. The market during that time fell 35.4%. In May, a bull market began that lasted until January 1973 and brought a 124% gain in stock values.
2. In April 1981, another bear market commenced that lasted nearly a year and brought a 24.7% decline. Then, in March of 1982, the market began to rise and continued doing so until June 1983, bringing an overall gain of 71.7%.
3. July 1990 brought a downward market that lasted three months, until October 1990, at which point equity prices had fallen 22.4%. Then, in the same month, a new, now legendary, bull market took hold and lasted nearly eight years, until July 1998, delivering a 330.7% gain for the market.
4. Dating back to 1975, 8 of the last 15 bull markets have started in the autumn months of September, October, and November.
5. Since 1957 there have been 15 bear markets, as measured from peak to trough, and on average they have lasted 10 months and brought an average decline of 29.4%.
6. The duration and degree of these bear markets were significantly less than the duration and magnitude of bull markets. During the same period, there were also 15 bull markets, which lasted, on average, 30 months and brought average gains of 112.5%.

10 key reminders for investors
1. Panics are based on emotion, and emotions can take on a life of their own. A herd-like mentality develops, and words that start to be used repetitively — such as “collapse,” “endless,” and “plunge” — only feed the frenzy. But it is important to remember that emotions are not your friend when it comes to making big decisions about your savings, retirement, or college money.
2. Individuals and the professional managers they hire to oversee their long-term assets are investors, not traders. There is a big difference. For investors, what matters is the long run, not today’s events.
3. No one is alone in their concerns. We all have lots of company.

4. Panics and downturns are part of the free market system. They have occurred throughout history. While this knowledge may not ease the pain, these sharp, sudden downturns still have to be recognized as part of a cycle that often includes years of slow and steady upward progress.
5. Historically, bear markets, recessions, and market panics have been relatively brief in comparison with the duration of bull markets. Since World War II, economic expansions have, on average, lasted five times longer than recessions, and bull markets have been twice as long as bear markets.
6. Cyclical downturns have historically been connected to credit excesses. This time is no different. Prudence in borrowing will be rewarded in the next cycle.
7. Collapses do not bring everything to a halt. Even during the worst of down times, people still go about their lives, raising children, going to work, and planning for the future.
8. Risk-seeking in the markets has vanished. But the pursuit of risk is a normal state for the markets. U.S. Treasury bills may look smart today, but at some point risk-seeking will return. It always has.
9. The largest government bodies in the world have acted to lessen the severity of this crisis.
10. You cannot control events. You can only control your response to them.

Lawnworks
10-11-2008, 05:43 PM
I'am going to wait till next year because property prices are dropping by Jan-Feb they should be dropped another 100 grand. Property price here never really changed for 15 years. Realtors figure we will see that again prices won't change for a long time.

With the truck if I sell it now I will take a bath on it truck prices have dropped so much I will loose 10 grand. Like I said I only owe 12 grand on the truck and I can have my payments reduced but I left them high so I can get the truck paid for.

I maybe liberal atleast I live in a country that isn't going to see a 1930s recession like the USA is going to see :laugh:

When you guys get a new President things will probably change for the better it might be a good eye opener for you guys. Your tax money will be spent on you guys. Sure amazing thou how you guys don't see that Bush has pretty well distroyed the states. Country is trillions in debt, major unemployment,spends 700 billion of your tax money. Pretty much a dictatorship you guys are GWs puppets he snaps his fingers you jump :dizzy:

Enough rambling you guys have major problems with your economy every US economist on TV says so even world economist says US is in for a recession.

It is kind of ironic that you say we are in for rough times, when you have been in "rough times" for the last few years!

Bush has definately not been fiscally conservative, but he did try to put forth regulation for better oversight of Fannie and Freddie... guess who blocked that legislation?

RockSet N' Grade
10-11-2008, 06:22 PM
Question to self: Why would I even take a kid serious who lives in a basement, has a mindset of poverty and self-entitlement, who talks alot but does not walk the walk, does nothing to improve his situation ( i.e. : read a book, find a mentor, take a risk) and who finds delight from being one step below pond scum on the emotional scale of positivity and doing something productive with "life"?

Gravel Rat
10-11-2008, 07:54 PM
I do want to set it straight I don't want to see the US economy go into recession. If the recession does happen its rocking the boat everywhere not just Canada. B.Cs economy is commodity oriented ie selling lumber,gravel and metals etc.

There is nothing wrong with my brain I don't have CO2 poisoning. I watch the news and read the news papers.

I follow the economy news because I want to know is it safe to make a career change.

Do you think the famillies that relied on logging for decades thought their jobs would be gone tommorow. The drop in lumber sales to the USA was one big factor for the forest industry down turn. The rest of the problems are gov't related and stupid rules and regs the B.C. gov't created.

The paper industry in B.C has gone for crap. Pulp and paper mills used to supply thousands of jobs. One mill could employ 3000 people another job that was pass down generations. I don't think the US had much effect on the paper market it is the overseas market.

Construction is the only thing B.C. has left but now the credit market is shaking in its boots people are scared to borrow money.

The fuel crisis was another factor in the problem why is North America bossed around by the oil companies. It wasn't just Canada that seen high fuel prices the USA experienced the same.

North America as a whole is screwed up but the USA is a little worse than Canada.

Canada and the USA is going down a rough road its just the USA took the rougher road with the bigger pot holes. The USA needs somebody else in the drivers seat.

Beleive me or not but the USA didn't have major problems as it does now when Clinton was in office atleast he seemed to care about the citizens a little more. A the same time Canada had the biggest embarrasment for a prime minister the crooked mouth french man.

Lawnworks
10-11-2008, 09:16 PM
North America as a whole is screwed up but the USA is a little worse than Canada.



That is hilarious!

YardPro
10-11-2008, 09:21 PM
gravel brat....

why are you blaming the economic issues on bush???? He had VERY little to do with the problem....

Barney Frank, and a select few other DEMS were the ones pushing freddie and fannie to make risky loans to propagate home ownership to the credit unworthy....

many republicans wanted more oversight, but it was blocked....

congress is the body that actually pass the laws.. NOT the president... THEY are the ones to blame....


oh, yea.... Clinton was the guy who helped do away with the last savings and loan oversight

CAT powered
10-11-2008, 09:28 PM
GR how does BC not go into a depression if you send 90% of your products to the USA? You say you're not going to have a depression like us, but again I'll repeat that YOU said that BC sends 90% of its products to the US.

How does that work?

Gravel Rat
10-11-2008, 09:35 PM
Right now B.Cs economy is running on realestate sales and construction.

Nobody knows what is going to happen with B.C. I don't think much is going to happen because exports to the USA has dropped off for a year and half now.

nosparkplugs
10-11-2008, 09:56 PM
Time is on Geroge W Bush's side; historians will do him justice, in that he is not totally responsible for our current economic crisis. The ball was dropped during the Clinton Era, in regards to the war on terror, and liberal economic lending laws. How many times was the world trade center bombed during Clinton's terms in office:nono:, Clinton took the leash off Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae:hammerhead:. It goes way back further, the Democrat's have "blood on their hands" also. While Obama wants to have the blinders on and "look forward", to correcting this problem; however it will require some inquires into how our government was managed back as far as 16 years IMO to ensure the same mistakes are not made in the future. It's clear! why our country is in the situation, when you have Americans who year after year LIVE ABOVE THEIR MEANS. Some Americans now live with a sense of entitlement that is down right dangerous. The fact that every American got/has the idea "they" had the right to own a home regardless of income, is precisely why were in the situation were in.

Now that the American dream of home ownerships has been a victory for all:laugh:, what can the liberals destroy next.

YellowDogSVC
10-11-2008, 10:43 PM
Now that the American dream of home ownerships has been a victory for all:laugh:, what can the liberals destroy next.

They can destroy the Constitution.

Lawnworks
10-11-2008, 10:58 PM
I believe the scary part is a majority of americans have the same ignorant outlook as gravel rat. They eat up Obama's rhetoric. We are becoming a nation of entitlist instead of a nation of individualist. Most americans don't know the real world as most of us business owner's do. Hell they don't even know how much taxes they pay and how it is wasted.

:drinkup: Here is to all those hardass working business men out there that participate in the real world. Have a drink on me while we continue to take it up the rear while gravel rat continues to suck on the gov't teet.

qps
10-12-2008, 09:16 AM
Question to self: Why would I even take a kid serious who lives in a basement, has a mindset of poverty and self-entitlement, who talks alot but does not walk the walk, does nothing to improve his situation ( i.e. : read a book, find a mentor, take a risk) and who finds delight from being one step below pond scum on the emotional scale of positivity and doing something productive with "life"?


:cool2:....you the man Mr. K....

RockSet N' Grade
10-12-2008, 10:12 AM
That's what my Ouiji Board said, so it must be true.......

bruno_rs
10-12-2008, 10:50 AM
Time is on Geroge W Bush's side; historians will do him justice, in that he is not totally responsible for our current economic crisis. The ball was dropped during the Clinton Era, in regards to the war on terror, and liberal economic lending laws. How many times was the world trade center bombed during Clinton's terms in office:nono:, Clinton took the leash off Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae:hammerhead:. It goes way back further, the Democrat's have "blood on their hands" also. While Obama wants to have the blinders on and "look forward", to correcting this problem; however it will require some inquires into how our government was managed back as far as 16 years IMO to ensure the same mistakes are not made in the future. It's clear! why our country is in the situation, when you have Americans who year after year LIVE ABOVE THEIR MEANS. Some Americans now live with a sense of entitlement that is down right dangerous. The fact that every American got/has the idea "they" had the right to own a home warned of huge problems regardless of income, is precisely why were in the situation were in.

Now that the American dream of home ownerships has been a victory for all:laugh:, what can the liberals destroy next.

hey no sparks, couldn't agree more... absolutely right on point!!! unfortunately most americans live WAY beyond their means and DO have a sense of entitlement. sad thing is, this selfish way of thinking has been coming from dc, for decades, spearheaded by A$$HOLES such as chris dodd, chuckie scheumer and barney franks.

the bush administration, 2 years into its' presidency, warned of huge problems with freddie and fannie and wanted to "deal" with them before something "catastrophic" was to happen... unfortunately, these 3 stooges were not only the biggest and/or loudest naysayers but, got on their little soapboxes and lambasted the "foolishness" of the bush administration, all the while benefiting financially by keeping a "lid" on their cash cow.

i want to know, why have these 3 FOOLS not been held accountable (whatsoever) for their devious AND CRIMINAL deeds! imo this generation, of politicians, will go down as the worst this great country has EVER had in office. moreover, not one politician is in office for anything other than seriously "padding" their wallets, pocketbooks and/or financial portfolio!

all of dc, as a group, have "pushed" us (and the world) into a very dark and dismal "hole"... all for nothing more than utter greed. TIME FOR A CHANGE... THROW THEM ALL OUT!!! our forefathers are rolling over in their graves.

AintNoFun
10-12-2008, 11:38 AM
well theres your first mistake...



There is nothing wrong with my brain I don't have CO2 poisoning. I watch the news and read the news papers.

I follow the economy news because I want to know is it safe to make a career change.

wanabe
10-12-2008, 11:49 AM
How is this clintons fault? He has been out of the white house for what, almost 8 years? He left us with a surplus in the bank and a good economy. I think a lot of the current problems go back to when oil hit $147.xx. Oil trading was deregulated by bush back in 2000m or 2001. After that, a lot of people were buying/trading oil with funds that were never there(did not have the money). Why do you think they now want to regulate it again?

nosparkplugs
10-12-2008, 12:14 PM
How is this clintons fault? He has been out of the white house for what, almost 8 years? He left us with a surplus in the bank and a good economy. I think a lot of the current problems go back to when oil hit $147.xx. Oil trading was deregulated by bush back in 2000m or 2001. After that, a lot of people were buying/trading oil with funds that were never there(did not have the money). Why do you think they now want to regulate it again?

Part of the problem is the Clinton, and the democratic party supports do not want their "golden boy" to bear any responsibility. Bet you did not watch the Clinton interview recently on the Fox news network, Clinton was asked how the next president could fix the housing market "crisis", his beat around the bush BS:laugh: I should have not changed so many lending laws, and those laws need to be "tightened" back up now. The problem is we had a hemorrhaging of the lending standards; because of the liberals agenda of American entitlement. What about those why pay their bills on time, do not lie about their income level or job? Their is no "silver" lining or "golden Parachutes" for us. Those are saved for the liberal Americans who have adopted the mentality of entitlement.

Lazer_Z
10-12-2008, 12:24 PM
The ignore feature only blocks PM and other messages, not threads/posts from that person you are trying to ignore. Not true Ronnie, not true. All I see is a message stating GR is on my ignore list, I don't see a single thing he types unless someone quotes him. God Bless the ignore feature :drinkup: :dancing:

bobcat_ron
10-12-2008, 01:31 PM
Not true Ronnie, not true. All I see is a message stating GR is on my ignore list, I don't see a single thing he types unless someone quotes him. God Bless the ignore feature :drinkup: :dancing:

So if you have GR on your ignore list, then why have you responded in this thread?

If you dislike/hate/can't stand him, why post in his own thread?

That's kinda like killing someone, and showing up at their funeral just because "you wanted to see all the other shmucks who liked him".

wanabe
10-12-2008, 01:59 PM
Who even watches the BS that Fox news puts on air? You know it is nothing buy right wing crap. They are the most biased tv network. Bush had 8 years to change things if they were so wrong. But wait, he did nothing. And now it is clintons fault? It always easy to point to the problem, but this guy had 8 years to fix it if he wanted to. Not 8 seconds, but 8 years! And he did nothing!

bobcat_ron
10-12-2008, 02:36 PM
Who even watches the BS that Fox news puts on air? You know it is nothing buy right wing crap. They are the most biased tv network. Bush had 8 years to change things if they were so wrong. But wait, he did nothing. And now it is clintons fault? It always easy to point to the problem, but this guy had 8 years to fix it if he wanted to. Not 8 seconds, but 8 years! And he did nothing!

That's what happens when a US Prez has a Vice Prez whispering in his ear "psssst, we need War!!"

ksss
10-12-2008, 02:46 PM
That's what happens when a US Prez has a Vice Prez whispering in his ear "psssst, we need War!!"


And whats wrong with that? Nothing wrong with kicking some ass that needs to be kicked.

nosparkplugs
10-12-2008, 02:50 PM
Who even watches the BS that Fox news puts on air? You know it is nothing buy right wing crap. They are the most biased tv network. Bush had 8 years to change things if they were so wrong. But wait, he did nothing. And now it is clintons fault? It always easy to point to the problem, but this guy had 8 years to fix it if he wanted to. Not 8 seconds, but 8 years! And he did nothing!

No one party shares all the blame, Yet liberals & the Demo's would love Bush to be responsible for this WHOLE economic crisis. Clintons interview, was air'ed on all the cable news channels I happen to catch it on FOX, the fact remains Clinton shares some blame for this crisis, he spoke the word's, and from the master of "Spin" himself Clinton did accepted some responsiblity for "removing the lease" on Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae.

Time did well for the Regan Administration, I suspect historians will do the same for the Bush Administration. The Historians will document this crisis accuratly in time. Their are many unanswered questions that remain:usflag:

ksss
10-12-2008, 03:01 PM
No one party shares all the blame, Yet liberals & the Demo's would love Bush to be responsible for this WHOLE economic crisis. Clintons interview, was air'ed on all the cable news channels I happen to catch it on FOX, the fact remains Clinton shares some blame for this crisis, he spoke the word's, and from the master of "Spin" himself Clinton did accepted some responsiblity for "removing the lease" on Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae.

Time did well for the Regan Administration, I suspect historians will do the same for the Bush Administration. The Historians will document this crisis accuratly in time. Their are many unanswered questions that remain:usflag:



Nicely put.

Summit L & D
10-12-2008, 03:12 PM
Time did well for the Regan Administration, I suspect historians will do the same for the Bush Administration. The Historians will document this crisis accuratly in time. Their are many unanswered questions that remain:usflag:

I believe that is a true statement.

Think about this, when does a mountain seem the biggest? When you're climbing it. But when you see things from a distance they seem much smaller. I believe that as history looks back on the events of the last 8 years there will be many successes and failures attributed to both parties.

Just think....both current candidates are promising to fix the situation...so what could possibly go wrong? ......:laugh:

Lazer_Z
10-12-2008, 05:48 PM
So if you have GR on your ignore list, then why have you responded in this thread?

If you dislike/hate/can't stand him, why post in his own thread?

That's kinda like killing someone, and showing up at their funeral just because "you wanted to see all the other shmucks who liked him".I'm not responding to him, I'm responding to you. You said it only works with PM's and such, and that's not what it is. Whenever Mr.D&G posts something I have no idea (nor do I give a Rat's @ss) what he's talking about because I can't see the text.

PerfectEarth
10-12-2008, 06:56 PM
Well, I made it 9 posts in..... GR, you are clueless. Sounds like you have enough broke-a** money problems yourself. How old are you? Your situation sounds pathetic at the very least. Buying trucks you cannot afford....no work, no house blah blah blah. WAAAAAaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!! You're just like most Americans! Always blaming others for your own problems.

I used to like your posts here. Good luck with YOUR situation- you need it more than this country.

YellowDogSVC
10-12-2008, 07:13 PM
Part of the problem is the Clinton, and the democratic party supports do not want their "golden boy" to bear any responsibility. Bet you did not watch the Clinton interview recently on the Fox news network, Clinton was asked how the next president could fix the housing market "crisis", his beat around the bush BS:laugh: I should have not changed so many lending laws, and those laws need to be "tightened" back up now. The problem is we had a hemorrhaging of the lending standards; because of the liberals agenda of American entitlement. What about those why pay their bills on time, do not lie about their income level or job? Their is no "silver" lining or "golden Parachutes" for us. Those are saved for the liberal Americans who have adopted the mentality of entitlement.

Whether or not the laws were changed should be a moot point. The risks the banks and especially the insurance companies took by buying securitized high risk junk sub-prime mortgage packages was unacceptable. Good accounting and business practices should have dictated that enough cash remain on hand in the event that the securities didn't hold up to face value should they need to be sold on the open market. These people are supposed to be smarter than us and I think that some greedy guys who wanted to get rich fast took chances with other people's monies and since it was done at the top the cascade effect down to the middle class has been overwhelming for the markets to absorb. We all know that home prices were out of control..the refinancing alone..but that's another story.

YellowDogSVC
10-12-2008, 07:15 PM
I think the biggest problem is thinking that the government will solve one. The government isn't full of the best and brightest. If they were, they'd be in the private sector (military and Nasa excluded).

nosparkplugs
10-12-2008, 07:24 PM
Whether or not the laws were changed should be a moot point. The risks the banks and especially the insurance companies took by buying securitized high risk junk sub-prime mortgage packages was unacceptable. Good accounting and business practices should have dictated that enough cash remain on hand in the event that the securities didn't hold up to face value should they need to be sold on the open market. These people are supposed to be smarter than us and I think that some greedy guys who wanted to get rich fast took chances with other people's monies and since it was done at the top the cascade effect down to the middle class has been overwhelming for the markets to absorb. We all know that home prices were out of control..the refinancing alone..but that's another story.

Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac under NEW Clinton law were allowed to loosen up the once tight lending laws. The one's many called "racist"; because it required a conferable job & income level, down payment & credit history from the CRA's. We now know the results of lending money to uncredit worthy people.

nosparkplugs
10-12-2008, 07:55 PM
AIG, got caught up in buying these high risk insurance policies on the mortgages, other lending markets followed. AIG had very little experience in insurance/hedging high risk loans. When all these bad loans failed, AIG had to pay up. This crisis lies in those uncredit worthy American's view of entitlement; which has changed how banks lend money, and undermined the economy(ACORN):laugh:. Personal greed, and the risky intoxicating, lending practices fueld those large insurance firms, to the banks who lent monies to uncredit worthy americans. Government economic strategist, federal reserve bank, etc whom beleive in free market capitalism, sought to let the crisis correct itself that did not happen. We should not pay for others failures, were's mine or your check for paying our bills during these economic times. Alan Greenspan Warned of this economic crisis, time & time again. We are a greedy race buy nature. It takes economic discipline to resist borrowing unregulated "free" money. Thats what happend in a nut shell.

The Clinton error sought to increase government intervention in a free capitalist market, buy "leveling the lending standards" it's the american dream for a low income american to own a $40,000 house which is correct if their creditworthy. Freddie mac & Fannie Mae were given direct order from Clinton's administration to lend money to "everyone" regardless of race, creed, or income status, or CRA's fico score. As a World leader other countries, and nations followed the USA off the bridge into the Abyss

YellowDogSVC
10-12-2008, 08:03 PM
AIG, got caught up in buying these high risk insurance policies on the mortgages, other lending markets followed. AIG had very little experience in insurance/hedging high risk loans. When all these bad loans failed, AIG had to pay up. This crisis lies in those uncredit worthy American's view of entitlement; which has changed how banks lend money, and undermined the economy(ACORN):laugh:. Personal greed, and the risky intoxicating, lending practices fueld those large insurance firms, to the banks who lent monies to uncredit worthy americans. Government economic strategist, federal reserve bank, etc whom beleive in free market capitalism, sought to let the crisis correct itself that did not happen. We should not pay for others failures, were's mine or your check for paying our bills during these economic times. Alan Greenspan Warned of this economic crisis, time & time again. We are a greedy race buy nature. It takes economic discipline to resist borrowing unregulated "free" money. Thats what happend in a nut shell.

The Clinton error sought to increase government intervention in a free capitalist market, buy "leveling the lending standards" it's the american dream for a low income american to own a $40,000 house which is correct if their creditworthy. Freddie mac & Fannie Mae were given direct order from Clinton's administration to lend money to "everyone" regardless of race, creed, or income status, or CRA's fico score. As a World leader other countries, and nations followed the USA off the bridge into the Abyss

Can't dispute much of this. People were simply living beyond their means. It had to catch up. A correction like this was inevitable but unfortunately, it was a long fall from the top and all of the companies that have been damaged or gone out of business had something similar in common. No cash cushion to break their fall. When you have everything tied up in securities that you can move, then you are asking to be caught with your pants down so to speak... just bad business all the way around. Oh and there was pressure from the Federal government through other channels for these banks to make loans in areas that were considered "underserviced" or markets that were considered "risky" due to low income, bad credit, etc. It would be nice if everyone could own a home but that isn't reality. Some people should live with their parents and others should live in an apartment. Not saying that everyone that lives with his or her parents or lives in an apartment can't manage money but it takes some fiscal responsibility to own a home in the long-term.

bobcat_ron
10-12-2008, 08:03 PM
The US Government's new mascot, since no one can seem to remember what the eagle stands for:

nosparkplugs
10-12-2008, 08:21 PM
:laugh:The US Government's new mascot, since no one can seem to remember what the eagle stands for:


Dude, I got a nice laugh out of that one. Sadly that has become the truth. More hardship to come? I suspect Obama will win,in a close election, simply because the average American is pissed off, and looking for change. My main fear is Obama has his own underlying radical agenda, what is it? His background, personal affiliations to radical groups, and or people, would disqualify him from any other government position. I wake up in a panic sometimes, thinking of what my childerns future holds. I own lots of high powered firearms, so I am ready for what the future shall bring.

dozerman21
10-12-2008, 09:57 PM
I think the Bar Rules need to apply here. No politics, no religion. You guys are giving Gravel Rat what he wants... something to read in the dark, damp basement.

YellowDogSVC
10-12-2008, 10:30 PM
If more people read this stuff, maybe the bright light of sanity will scare the weasels out of the dark, damp basements of our respective governments.

Lazer_Z
10-12-2008, 10:42 PM
I think the Bar Rules need to apply here. No politics, no religion. You guys are giving Gravel Rat what he wants... something to read in the dark, damp basement. Speaking of which I think I may have found a picture of our good buddy D&G GR :laugh::laugh::laugh:

RockSet N' Grade
10-12-2008, 11:11 PM
My wife and I both work long and hard hours at our respective jobs. We both drive older vehicles and have been prudent with our income and have had a plan. Never understood the new neighborhoods growing up around us with new boats, 4 wheelers, new hummers and cars.......all the toys with a full family and a $400k new house payment.........figured we were doing something wrong, but we just plugged along with our game plan and lifestyle. Paid our bills on time and never stretched it out there too far.........now, all these greedy individuals and institutions are threatening our lifestyle and it pisses me off on all sorts of levels......from the top dogs down to the individual greed........and we are all gonna pay.........The condom seems appropriate on some levels and made me chuckle for a moment, but the Eagle is there somewhere if not on the top of the Capital - it will reside where it came from and that is in the spirit of the hard working common man.

YellowDogSVC
10-12-2008, 11:34 PM
My wife and I both work long and hard hours at our respective jobs. We both drive older vehicles and have been prudent with our income and have had a plan. Never understood the new neighborhoods growing up around us with new boats, 4 wheelers, new hummers and cars.......all the toys with a full family and a $400k new house payment.........figured we were doing something wrong, but we just plugged along with our game plan and lifestyle. Paid our bills on time and never stretched it out there too far.........now, all these greedy individuals and institutions are threatening our lifestyle and it pisses me off on all sorts of levels......from the top dogs down to the individual greed........and we are all gonna pay.........The condom seems appropriate on some levels and made me chuckle for a moment, but the Eagle is there somewhere if not on the top of the Capital - it will reside where it came from and that is in the spirit of the hard working common man.

P*sses me off too! My wife and I just completed get our family out of debt bu the small house payment to have this hit. My business debt is on the line, however, if work drops off and though I"m incorporated, some of it is tied directly to me. Shame on those people who had to keep up with the joneses and shame on those who made a buck knowing they were loaning money to people who couldn't pay. Interest only loands. No payments for 1 year...c'mon. Someone always pays.

Gravel Rat
10-12-2008, 11:41 PM
I don't want any fights over this :canadaflag:

No that picture doesn't represent me :nono:

Us Canadians have to vote next week for a new Prime Minister it will be interesting to see who wins. All the votes cast in B.C. don't make a difference.

SinjonAssociates
10-13-2008, 01:48 AM
No Fights here GR and definitely no bar rules with a GR thread!!! This is what our great country is about, freedom of speech.I hope the debate continues.

George
P.S. Thanks GR, I think you actually did something positive and constructive for a change by creating this thread, even if if it started with one of your typically negative diatribes.

YellowDogSVC
10-13-2008, 12:01 PM
don't ever think your vote doesn't count! Elections can be won on thin margins. Just ask Al Gore!!

willretire@40
10-13-2008, 01:10 PM
In my area people are still spending money. Go to the mall and it is crazy busy. Go out to eat and have to wait 45min for a table on the weekends. Taco bell line is still as long as it has ever been. Walmart is still packed with barely any food left on the shelf by Sunday.

Gravel Rat
10-13-2008, 07:52 PM
I will vote tommorow but all the candidates for my area are not that great.

All the politicians in Canada are like used car salesman say what you want to hear then once they are voted in it never happens.

B.C. and Alberta are the bread winners for the country and give lots of tax money to the Federal gov't and rarely see any of it returned.

trailmaker
10-14-2008, 12:19 AM
LMAO Lazer Z:laugh:!

bobcat_ron
10-14-2008, 09:45 PM
I voted today.


My vote was cast for a Mr. ReMax Realty.

That dude is so popular, he has sign everywhere, on just about every front lawn in town.

He sure got my vote. :cool2:

bearmtnmartin
10-16-2008, 02:51 AM
well, just dropped by to see what was up, and there is this thread. Can't say it has much to do with heavy equipment though. Had a good chuckle, in between feeling sorry for GR. He sounds clinically depressed. For what its worth, I'm just down the road from him, and I still have at least a month of good work on the books. My driver has given his notice for the end of the month, and I thought about just going it alone for the winter, but I'm too busy. So the bookkeeper is posting the ad again on Saturday. GR's right about house prices here though. We live in the Fraser Valley, which is the California of Canada, and everyone wants to live here. But with the ALR(agricultural land reserve) that Ron makes all his money off, and mountains all around, the land base is limited, and good building sites are hard to get and very pricy. And its never going to get better. I'm probably the last generation from around here who will own their home. Thats not the end of the world though. Its the way it is in most countries. People just need to adjust their minds to the new reality and deal with it. Sorry about all that crap going on down there with the banking. Hope you all figure it out, because my RRSP has lost 15 percent in value, and I want to retire in 24 years.

Gravel Rat
10-16-2008, 08:01 PM
The Valley shouldn't be turned into residential its the only good farmland left. You look at Pitt Meadows its filling up fast with farm land turning into houses not good. Farmland in Richmond isn't as good as anything in the Chilliwack area. Ya the farmers are having a impossible time to make any money but they shouldn't be allowed to sell their land to a developer so the can turn it into housing.

I'am not depressed maybe a little frustrated but right now all I'am thinking about is I might be lucky to have a job. This slow down in the economy hasn't shown its full potential yet.

I don't think anybody knows for sure what is going to happen. The construction industry is slowed down to nothing. The realestate market has fallen off to nothing. The credit crisis is worrying people so the money isn't being spent.

I think Vancouver to Hope is going to see some big problems. There is alot of people over-extended money wise. Too much overpriced realestate was bought on credit. The big fear was if you don't buy now you will be priced out of the market so everbody was buying up realestate like it was going out of style.

This economic problem has only started the wound is starting to fester and puss is forming, full gangrene will be during this winter.

YellowDogSVC
10-16-2008, 09:42 PM
Ya the farmers are having a impossible time to make any money but they shouldn't be allowed to sell their land to a developer so the can turn it into housing.

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I don't like seeing beautiful, rich farmland turned into row houses, apartments, or cookie cutter houses but not allowing them to sell is kinda like communism.. it can lead to no good and worthless property values. We have whole tracts of land here deemed worthless because of an endangered migratory bird that's smart enough to fly 1 mile and land somewhere else but because someone saw a feather or a poop from one of those little birds the land can't be altered, sold (because nobody wants it) and the government doesn't buy up the conservation land that is virtually worthless in the open market.

Gravel Rat
10-17-2008, 02:31 AM
The whole area like where Ron lives and east is premium farm land. It can and does supply food for B.C. . Farmers sell the property to developers to get out of debt. It is the way it goes I guess. I don't blame the farmers they can't suffer with debt and barely making a profit.

bobcat_ron
10-17-2008, 10:38 AM
The whole area like where Ron lives and east is premium farm land. It can and does supply food for B.C. . Farmers sell the property to developers to get out of debt. It is the way it goes I guess. I don't blame the farmers they can't suffer with debt and barely making a profit.


You have your facts wrong on that, the long time, second generation dairy farmers here, sell due to ever rising costs of herd and crop production, so they sell to another larger farm or a group of Indo-Canadians who will use the land for cash crops or the every so-slowly-worthless blueberry. The developers know enough to stay out of the actual farm land, it's too low and subject to flooding and it costs too much money to build anything that isn't made of 80% wood.
80% of the farms here are in debt, not enough to sell and pull up their stakes, just enough to keep going.
The farmers that are leaving are heading slightly North where cost per acre is even lower, but the growing seasons are shorter.
We have enough people in City Council and plenty of private citizens here that are very keen on ALR's going into housing and industrial parks, and it doesn't take very long for a future plan to get the axe around here.

M RASCOE&SONS
10-21-2008, 09:14 PM
I can't buy anything the banks consider my 40 grand a year wage not enough to buy **** all. I barely got a 30 grand loan for my truck and even then I'am paying through the nose because I'am classed as "High Risk". I have a freaking gauranteed job I'am not self-employeed. With self-employeed people forget it getting a bank loan is next to impossible.

Getting a mortage for a house I can't even qualify I don't make enough money. Yep a little bitter that a "Job" that is considered good pay can't buy zip and you live pay check to pay check. The worst part of it all if the economy in Canada tanks my job will be considered the highest annual income.

If the economy does go for the swirl down the toilet B.C. will see house forclosures. People are so cashed strapped and in debt they can't afford to loose their job. To own a house you need two incomes to pay the 1500-2000 dollar a month house payment.

The B.C. gov't thinks a 8.50 dollar per hour job is good paying :rolleyes:

Now the stupid idiot gov't wants to import foreign workers from manila its all to drive the wages down. They want to import 30,000 people a year.

B.C. residents are working poor if the economy in B.C. goes down even further its nothing but bad news. The only industry B.C. had left was realestate and now that is taking a beating.

I don't know what is going to happen there might be quite a few people not having any presents a Christmas this year. Many people may not have a job come december. Forestry isn't a job supplier anymore, construction has been providing jobs for the last few years but with building dropping off construction jobs are going away. Can't afford to live off a grocery store wage you couldn't even pay your house rent. There is no other employment with muni jobs all taken. Being self-employeed your going to be broke.
its time you reinvent yourself-1)buy a used car ,clean it up and flip it.try and double your money,something 4cyl that kids love.use craigs to sell it.2)advertise for dumpruns and put that truck to work.3)put some flyers up in local banks and coffe shops for to do handy man work.you will make it as long as you think outside the box ,and you got to stop thinking doom and gloom.your the perfect candidate to read "THE SECRET" it will help you alot.get that book at the bookstore and read it and then go get "RICH DAD POOR DAD" and read that afterwards.keep your head up ..:drinkup::usflag:

Lawnworks
10-21-2008, 10:01 PM
its time you reinvent yourself-1)buy a used car ,clean it up and flip it.try and double your money,something 4cyl that kids love.use craigs to sell it.2)advertise for dumpruns and put that truck to work.3)put some flyers up in local banks and coffe shops for to do handy man work.you will make it as long as you think outside the box ,and you got to stop thinking doom and gloom.your the perfect candidate to read "THE SECRET" it will help you alot.get that book at the bookstore and read it and then go get "RICH DAD POOR DAD" and read that afterwards.keep your head up ..:drinkup::usflag:

I think GR, just wants to get sympathy. He has no real desire to improve himself. Others as well as yourself have offered great advice, but GR prefers to live a crappy life... it is just easier for him. He doesn't have the grit most of us have to do anything to improve our quality of life.

I think it is perfectly fine for GR to have no aspirations and live w/ mom till he inherits the house... but when he whines about the situation he created, that is another thing. GR you are a coward... if you never look in the mirror and determine the real problem, you will never be able to improve your situation.