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pflasch
10-12-2008, 05:11 PM
I've been looking for a new frontmount unit.

I've looked at the Walkers, and I looked at the Navigators.
(BTW, and I don't mean to start a war here, but I was told by a dealer that Exmark's sales on the Navigator are dismal, and Exmark is hinting at killing the Navigator)

I started to look at the Grasshoppers... boy are they built!!!
The Grasshopper 700 series with a diesel is SWEET!!! Then, I was told by a friend to look at the Woods "Mow n Machine FZ"...
The story that I got from the Woods Dealer was that Grasshopper use to build the Woods until the mid 90's, and then Woods broke away from Grasshopper, to build their own units!
The Woods have a better paint job, (sorry, I'm not that partial to baby sh%t brown :laugh: )and some of the newer modernizing things that other companies have gone to... i.e. poly gas tanks, real cup holders & storage compartments molded into the tanks etc.

So, my question to anyone that has actually owned a 2008 (because they went to separate pumps and motors in the 2008 model) how do they hold up??

Here's the pricing that I got from the Woods Dealer.
NEW 2008 FZ 250 (25 HP Kubota 902 series 3 cyl diesel) with a 61" frontmount deck, suspension seat and the PowerTilt for the deck - $11,900

Here's what I was quoted by a Grasshopper Dealer.
NEW 2008 722D (22 HP Kubota 3 cyl diesel) with a 61" frontmount deck and NO Powerlift for the deck - $16,400
(Powerlift was an add'l $500.00!)

The build is almost identical under the hoods (I guess that Woods is still using the Grasshopper frame blueprints!??) Any idea why a $5,000 difference in price...

ed2hess
10-12-2008, 05:52 PM
How much does that diesel engine contribute to the cost of the Woods? Why a front mount?

pflasch
10-12-2008, 05:56 PM
I didn't check the price of a non diesel.

I like the front mounts for the abilities to get under trees and bushes etc... and I like the way they can get into areas where with a mid mount, I'd probably have to go back to "trim" with a trimmer.

TomberLawn
10-12-2008, 05:59 PM
I'd go for the Woods, buddy. I priced a 722D with PowerFold deck lift at my local dealer and it was $14,000 something. $11,900 sounds like a deal, considering you get 3 more hp, power deck lift, and some of the things Woods has that Grasshopper doesn't. I was looking at the brochure rack at my dealer yesterday and there was one comparing the Mow'N Machine with the Grasshopper. It was pretty neat. I bought a Woods MZ3361G yesterday. I know that Woods outsources their mowers, but they aren't going to put their name on junk.

Do this: Make a chart or something to compare the features you like about the Grasshopper and the things you like about the Woods, without thinking about price. Then write down what you don't like about each. If the Grasshopper comes out on top (more positives, fewer negatives), then decide if the difference is worth $4500. If the Woods comes out on top, then, by all means, that's the one to get!

doubleedge
10-12-2008, 06:03 PM
Does the deck on the Woods mower tilt from side to side? I know on the Grasshoppers you need to have bushings or something like that installed for it to tilt from side to side. Test them out and buy what you like more. I think Grasshoppers are just overpriced.

pflasch
10-12-2008, 06:10 PM
Thanks for the info!
I've downloaded the manual for the FZ25D from the Woods website. Talk about a great manual!!! If you are handy in the least, this manual walks you thru repair or replacement (with diagrams!) on just about everything... including engine removal!! Very detailed!

I would have loved to see that piece that compared the Woods vs the Grasshopper! I didn't see it in the lit. rack... I'll have to stop back in and ask for a copy! Thanks!
As far as the pros and cons spreadsheet that you suggested (great idea BTW) for about $5,000 difference, I would assume the the Grasshopper will make love to me and then take me out for a nice dinner!! MANY TIMES!!! ha ha

Thanks for your input, and congrates on you getting your Woods MZ3361G... keep us informed as you break it in.

pflasch
10-12-2008, 06:16 PM
Does the deck on the Woods mower tilt from side to side? I know on the Grasshoppers you need to have bushings or something like that installed for it to tilt from side to side. Test them out and buy what you like more. I think Grasshoppers are just overpriced.

Yeap! The literature shows the deck doing about 15 degrees both up and down from level... and about 10 degrees on the sideways tilt from level.
It's just a picture, and I'm guessing at the actual number, but that would be close since they do not actually have it spelled out in the lit. :cry:

Ford850
10-12-2008, 06:21 PM
I have the new 61" 722 GH. Mine was 13,000.00 INCLUDING full suspension seat, extra height sticks, power lift deck, and tax. I thought THAT was a lot. I would have passed out if I got your price!
I love my GH, definitely the right choice for me. I think the Woods might give a better finish cut, but slower. Get demos of both and make your choice. You might want to check another dealer for price on the GH though.

pflasch
10-12-2008, 06:26 PM
I have the new 61" 722 GH. Mine was 13,000.00 INCLUDING full suspension seat, extra height sticks, power lift deck, and tax. I thought THAT was a lot. I would have passed out if I got your price!
I love my GH, definitely the right choice for me. I think the Woods might give a better finish cut, but slower. Get demos of both and make your choice. You might want to check another dealer for price on the GH though.

Boy, that's a BIG difference!!!

Maybe he miss read the pricing guide and gave me a price on the new 29HP Kubota (729)... but even that would be outrageous to go from a 22HP to a 29HP Kubota!
Thanks for the info...

pflasch
10-12-2008, 06:29 PM
I'd go for the Woods, buddy. I priced a 722D with PowerFold deck lift at my local dealer and it was $14,000 something. $11,900 sounds like a deal, considering you get 3 more hp, power deck lift, and some of the things Woods has that Grasshopper doesn't. I was looking at the brochure rack at my dealer yesterday and there was one comparing the Mow'N Machine with the Grasshopper. It was pretty neat. I bought a Woods MZ3361G yesterday. I know that Woods outsources their mowers, but they aren't going to put their name on junk.

Do this: Make a chart or something to compare the features you like about the Grasshopper and the things you like about the Woods, without thinking about price. Then write down what you don't like about each. If the Grasshopper comes out on top (more positives, fewer negatives), then decide if the difference is worth $4500. If the Woods comes out on top, then, by all means, that's the one to get!

ooooo weeeee!!! (from Jed Clampett on The Beverly Hillbilly's) that is one sweet machine!!

Can I ask what you had to give for it... and what area of the country you are in?
I'm in Virgina, and they don't give anything away here!! :dizzy:

TomberLawn
10-12-2008, 06:59 PM
Weeeeeell doggies!

Well, the dealer goes to my church, so he cut me a little better deal than the average guy off the street. He had a sign on it marked $8350+ tax, plus they had some good financing on it since it was a model year closeout. The dealer is Oakboro Tractor in Oakboro, NC. It's about 15 miles over there from where I live, but well worth it for the service I can get from this dealer.

I was really impressed with this mower. I never thought I'd have a 60" mower with more than 30hp--it just didn't seem necessary. Boy, talk about power. That thing will fly uphill in heavy grass and not lug down! The 992cc Generac really puts it out!

I'll probably be going back over there to Oakboro soon to get some little things, like a hitch, Jungle Jack, an extra set of blades, and filters. While I'm there, I'll see if I can get that brochure and scan it for you. They compared everything from tire size to arm rests. It made me thing twice about wanting a Grasshopper, which was what I had my heart set on at one time.

pflasch
10-12-2008, 07:03 PM
Weeeeeell doggies!

Well, the dealer goes to my church, so he cut me a little better deal than the average guy off the street. He had a sign on it marked $8350+ tax, plus they had some good financing on it since it was a model year closeout. The dealer is Oakboro Tractor in Oakboro, NC. It's about 15 miles over there from where I live, but well worth it for the service I can get from this dealer.

I was really impressed with this mower. I never thought I'd have a 60" mower with more than 30hp--it just didn't seem necessary. Boy, talk about power. That thing will fly uphill in heavy grass and not lug down! The 992cc Generac really puts it out!

I'll probably be going back over there to Oakboro soon to get some little things, like a hitch, Jungle Jack, an extra set of blades, and filters. While I'm there, I'll see if I can get that brochure and scan it for you. They compared everything from tire size to arm rests. It made me thing twice about wanting a Grasshopper, which was what I had my heart set on at one time.

Sweet deal!

Yes, if you get the chance to get a scan of that lit, I would be very grateful!

Thanks again :dancing:

Mowingman
10-12-2008, 07:46 PM
You need to know that Woods has not built their own machines for many years. All their ZTR's are built by other companies and simply painted and lettered for Woods. The Woods midmount is currently a Bobcat in Woods paint. I am not sure, but I believe that Woods frontmount ,may be a Gravely unit. Woods changed builders ever 3 or 4 years. this makes it very difficult to get Woods parts sometimes. In fact, Woods machines are known to be hard to find parts for.
I would go with the Grasshopper. At least you know who makes them, they have a long history of success, and, parts are easy to get and interchangeable between many of their machines. none of which can be said about the Woods machines.

zapper
10-12-2008, 08:49 PM
I agree with mowingman. Seem like Grasshoper prices have really skyrocketed since I purchased mine.

Lehighlawnpros
10-12-2008, 08:57 PM
I'll give my highest recommendation for Grasshopper
and Kubota diesel engines, our newest of three is a 722D and it's awesome.

Awesome mulching results (St Augustine)
.6 GPH fuel economy
and very,very durable

Definately get the powerfold, it makes servicing the deck
so much easier.

Bob
Lehighlawnpros

TomberLawn
10-12-2008, 09:11 PM
Since Woods does outsource production, it should actually be easier to find parts if you know the similar model. Like my new mower, I know it's basically a Bobcat Predator Pro, so when I'm looking for parts, I might have better success finding Bobcat part numbers online. The new Woods front mount should have interchangeable parts with a Gravely, if that is indeed its counterpart (they do look similar). The older Woods front mounts should have interchangeable parts with a Grasshopper. I've already found Bobcat parts manuals online that have every piece of my mower in exploded view with part numbers.

davidcalhoun
10-12-2008, 09:59 PM
I have had both. The 2004 Woods F-25 that I still have was built by Gravely. I believe it was in 07 that Woods contracted Encore Mfg. to build the power/tractor unit to Woods specs (that is why it still looks like the Gravely built ones).

Woods still makes their own decks. The decks do stripe well without a kit.

Compare the Hydro drives in both units, GrassHopper might have the edge there. But not enough for the big price difference.

Parts can be ordered from most Woods dealers. Few will stock commercial mower parts, so you have to plan for that. Other aftermarket places can get blades and such.

nosparkplugs
10-12-2008, 10:05 PM
no experience with the Woods; however Grasshopper has lost their mind on their price's here too. That Woods FM is way more mower for the money.

TomberLawn
10-12-2008, 10:36 PM
I have had both. The 2004 Woods F-25 that I still have was built by Gravely. I believe it was in 07 that Woods contracted Encore Mfg. to build the power/tractor unit to Woods specs (that is why it still looks like the Gravely built ones).

My dealer did have a Woods FE21B, and it looks just like the Encore. It looked like it would be really underpowered, though--60" deck, 21hp Vanguard.

Sammy
10-13-2008, 12:49 AM
My brother has a Grasshopper built Woods out front.
He blew some hydro gears on one side.

Parts from the Woods dealer were around $850.00
Parts from the Grasshopper dealer were around $400.00

pflasch
10-13-2008, 04:53 AM
hmmm... at least on the new FZ Series from Woods, and looking VERY closely to both manuals... all of the holes on everything matches up perfectly with Grasshopper 700 Series!
I wonder if they went back to Grasshopper in 2008 to get this one built?

The pumps are Parker 12CC

Except for the actual PowerTilt option (Grasshopper uses spacers to repeat the exact height, Woods does not) all of the holes line up for almost everything else!

Woods is using a poly fuel tank / fender, with operator controls and cup holder etc. built into it... Grasshopper is still the same old metal one that have used for years.

I was told by the Woods dealer that the early (last years similar version) had a completely different pump / motor system that wasn't reliable enough, so Woods switched to the more common Parker system that most commercial systems are using these days.

hmmmm, I wonder!??

Mowingman
10-13-2008, 07:03 AM
No, Grasshopper is NOT making Woods machines.

mcduff48
10-13-2008, 03:25 PM
hmmm... at least on the new FZ Series from Woods, and looking VERY closely to both manuals... all of the holes on everything matches up perfectly with Grasshopper 700 Series!
I wonder if they went back to Grasshopper in 2008 to get this one built?

The pumps are Parker 12CC

Except for the actual PowerTilt option (Grasshopper uses spacers to repeat the exact height, Woods does not) all of the holes line up for almost everything else!

Woods is using a poly fuel tank / fender, with operator controls and cup holder etc. built into it... Grasshopper is still the same old metal one that have used for years.

I was told by the Woods dealer that the early (last years similar version) had a completely different pump / motor system that wasn't reliable enough, so Woods switched to the more common Parker system that most commercial systems are using these days.

hmmmm, I wonder!??

Grasshopper has been using poly tanks since 2005 and the diesels all come with side shift and tilt as well as a "real cup holder"! The ROPS is standard equipment on the Grasshopper and I believe that the 16cc pumps found on the diesels have more that enough power to go anywhere you may need to.
I'd bet that the price you were quoted included a 16 bushel all metal power vac system on a new 725D (Kubota D902) not a 722D and were loaned a CD to take and learn from. :usflag:

Mowingman
10-13-2008, 06:26 PM
Grasshopper has an optional steel fuel tank for the front-mount machines. It also has a larger capacity than the poly tanks.

Cooter
10-14-2008, 04:35 AM
Its possible that Woods uses two different manufactures to build the different models. Some look like Encore, some may be Gravely?

Mowingman
10-14-2008, 07:02 AM
Yes, they have done that in the past.

davidcalhoun
10-14-2008, 07:58 AM
Are you saying that Woods is using two different manufacturers to build their two frontmount models (FZ and FE)?

As other have said here, it looks like the midmount is made by the Textron group.

Mowingman
10-14-2008, 01:09 PM
The standard practice in the past, is for them to have one builder do the midmounts and another do the front mounts. That photo of the front mount, looks a lot like a Gravely machine. however, I believe Encore has built for them within the last few years.

puppypaws
10-14-2008, 10:59 PM
Are you saying that Woods is using two different manufacturers to build their two frontmount models (FZ and FE)?

As other have said here, it looks like the midmount is made by the Textron group.

The mower "TomberLawn" bought is a Bobcat "Predator Pro" painted yellow and made by Textron. It is one of the better mowers on the market.

George Mason
10-15-2008, 12:11 AM
Is the Woods company you all are speaking of the same company that manufactured the blade for my farm tractor? A blade is a blade for the most part, there is a design flaw in mine with the location of one of the most important bolts being in a nearly impossible location to get to without half-way disassembling the thing, but I am not trying to compare a tractor blade to a mower, just curious as to if it is the same company. I think it is made in Illinois. If I am not mistaken Landpride, the maker of farm attachments, also makes Z turn commercial mowers. There are no Woods or Landpride mowers anywhere to be found around these parts that I know of.

Whatever the case, the Woods in the pic. looks to be a solid mower.

Sammy
10-15-2008, 12:53 AM
Is the Woods company you all are speaking of the same company that manufactured the blade for my farm tractor?

Yes, the same.

pflasch
10-15-2008, 02:54 AM
Yeap! This would be the same company...

puppypaws
10-15-2008, 07:13 AM
Is the Woods company you all are speaking of the same company that manufactured the blade for my farm tractor? A blade is a blade for the most part, there is a design flaw in mine with the location of one of the most important bolts being in a nearly impossible location to get to without half-way disassembling the thing, but I am not trying to compare a tractor blade to a mower, just curious as to if it is the same company. I think it is made in Illinois. If I am not mistaken Landpride, the maker of farm attachments, also makes Z turn commercial mowers. There are no Woods or Landpride mowers anywhere to be found around these parts that I know of.

Whatever the case, the Woods in the pic. looks to be a solid mower.

They have been around since 1946, made one of the first and best batwing mowers put in use. Good company involved in a number of equipment markets.

http://www.woodsonline.com/

Green King
10-27-2008, 07:59 PM
Did you get the woods? If so how is it on hills? Also I read that this was built by gravely with a woods deck on it! However after looking at the gravely they do not seem to be the same machine!

Mowingman
10-27-2008, 08:05 PM
Read the earlier posts in this topic! It is built by Bobcat. Gravely quit building Woods midmounts a couple of years ago.


Did you get the woods? If so how is it on hills? Also I read that this was built by gravely with a woods deck on it! However after looking at the gravely they do not seem to be the same machine!

Green King
10-27-2008, 08:06 PM
The front cut is built by bobcat?

Mowingman
10-27-2008, 08:07 PM
No, only the midmounts.

tacoma200
10-27-2008, 09:47 PM
You need to know that Woods has not built their own machines for many years. All their ZTR's are built by other companies and simply painted and lettered for Woods. The Woods midmount is currently a Bobcat in Woods paint. I am not sure, but I believe that Woods frontmount ,may be a Gravely unit. Woods changed builders ever 3 or 4 years. this makes it very difficult to get Woods parts sometimes. In fact, Woods machines are known to be hard to find parts for.
I would go with the Grasshopper. At least you know who makes them, they have a long history of success, and, parts are easy to get and interchangeable between many of their machines. none of which can be said about the Woods machines.

I agree, woods would be one of the last machines I would recommend. Not very consistent, you never know what your going to get. Better prices can be had with Grasshopper if you shop around, don't pay retail but my vote would be for the Grasshopper. They are the #1 ZTR in this area with nothing but good reviews. A very time tested machine and they know how to put a diesel selection together.

puppypaws
10-27-2008, 10:10 PM
This is your Woods Mowing Machine top of the line, the Bobcat Predator Pro.

Here is the Woods.
http://www.woodsequipment.com/mowerdetail.aspx?id=16953&ekmensel=41a6502d_7_59_16953_2


http://www.bobcatturf.com/images/bctrack_r1_c1.jpg

pflasch
10-27-2008, 10:13 PM
Yes, but who is making the Front Mount??
It's not Bobcat and it's not Gravely...

puppypaws
10-27-2008, 10:16 PM
Yes, but who is making the Front Mount??
It's not Bobcat and it's not Gravely...

It may be Grasshopper!

pflasch
10-27-2008, 10:18 PM
I was told that Grasshopper and Woods split their business arraignments years ago... even though they look like a Grasshopper with poly gas tanks!

Mowingman
10-27-2008, 10:26 PM
No, Grasshopper is not building for them. No way no how. The fuel tanks are the same as Gravely uses, but I don't think that is a Gravely-built machine. Someone mentioned it might be from Encore.

WREBELMACHINE
10-28-2008, 05:59 PM
That is a nice looking mower!

TomberLawn
10-28-2008, 10:36 PM
Ok, I got the brochure comparing the Woods to the Grasshopper. Because of copyrights, I don't think I should copy the whole brochure and publish it to this website. I will hit the points that the brochure covers.

Operator Seat:

Woods--Fully adjustable suspension seat. Front-to-rear slide adjust, weight adjust, and foldable armrests. Material repels water.

Grasshopper--No adjustments, not even foldable armrests, on the standard seat. Cordura fabric can absorb water and dirt.

Fuel Tank:

Woods--11 gallon capacity with large opening for easy fueling.

Grasshopper--4.3 gallon standard, 8 gallon optional. Smaller tank opening.

Hydro Oil:

Woods--large, exposed tank allows for cooler fluid and easier maintenance.

Grasshopper--smaller tank under/behind the seat. More difficult to access for maintenance.

Tires:

Woods--23" drive tires in a variety of tread styles. Tail wheels are 2 inches taller than Grasshopper, with a heavier duty yoke.

Grasshopper--21" drive tires and smaller rear tires.

Deck:

Woods--reinforced baffling offers great cut quality and strength. 9/16" steel bar reinforces front edge of deck.

Grasshopper--Smaller front baffle and no reinforcing on the front edge.

Float:

Woods--deck is not rigidly fixed to the tractor frame, allowing it to tilt and float over ground contours.

Grasshopper--flotation kit available as an option, but only allows limited range of motion.

More deck strength:

Woods--over 2000 hours of testing with no failures, even with grass catcher vac attached for 500 hours. Deck casters mounted towards the outside of the deck eliminates need for anti-scalp wheels and follows ground for a smoother cut.

Grasshopper--major structural failure after 30 hours of testing with one deck model. Failed at 62 hours on another model. The picture showed broken welds at the main deck pivot point, where it raises or lowers the deck. Smaller deck caster wheels.


So there you have pretty much what the brochure says. I want to make it clear that I am not trying to bash Grasshopper or praise Woods. I just happened to see this brochure and thought the original author of this thread would be interested in seeing a comparison of some key features. Let me reiterate by saying that I have not operated either a Woods front mount or a Grasshopper of any kind. This is just what the brochure points out. Most of the comparisons can be taken directly from the specs for each mower, like tire size, fuel capacity, etc.

4evergreenlawns
10-28-2008, 11:28 PM
Tom,

Lots to say. What do you own???



I have owned a GH 722DG2 for 3 seasons now. Bought it used with low hours for $8K. This mower will cut some grass. In wet spring and fall conditions this mower just goes and goes.

If I would of have better dealer support I would have purchased several of these unit. I had to go to Toro Commercial Z's again based on dealer support.


If anyone is looking for a power broom, cabin, and heater for a 722 look me up. I will sell the package cheap. All in great condition.


Ron G.

Ford850
10-29-2008, 08:07 AM
Tomberlawn,
I know you are just reporting what the Woods brochure states, but that is bad data. Quite a few of those details about GH are false. Maybe they did the comparison several years ago on an older model GH or something. Or they compared it to a smaller model. This thread is comparing the GH 722D to the Woods. If someone wants to do a comparison they should read the brochures from both companies and not rely on the competitor to tell you the latest details.

TomberLawn
10-29-2008, 04:15 PM
The mowers pictured in the brochure are Woods F25L and Grasshopper 725. I own a Woods midmount, but researched Grasshopper frontmounts extensively. They were just out of my price range.

I just checked both Woods and Grasshopper's websites for specs on current models. The drive tires on the 700 GH is 22" now, but the tail wheels are still 13" compared to 15" on the Woods. So, some specs have changed since the brochure was published (copyright 2004), but most have probably stayed relatively the same. A suspension seat is still standard on the Woods and optional on the Grasshopper.

Like I said, I'm not trying to bash Grasshopper. They are very highly rated by their owners. Woods is just not as well known and they are trying to show the differences in their product and the segment leader, Grasshopper.

Mowingman
10-29-2008, 06:36 PM
There is a lot of half truths in that comparison. There are reasons why Grasshopper does things the way they do, and they work well. When I have time, I may pick that comparison to pieces, point by point.
Woods probably hates Grasshopper to this day, as Grasshopper won in a patent infringement case against Woods, many years ago. It forced Woods to stop building front deck mowers to Grasshopper specs. and designs.

Mowingman
10-29-2008, 09:09 PM
Ok, I got the brochure comparing the Woods to the Grasshopper. Because of copyrights, I don't think I should copy the whole brochure and publish it to this website. I will hit the points that the brochure covers.

Operator Seat:

Woods--Fully adjustable suspension seat. Front-to-rear slide adjust, weight adjust, and foldable armrests. Material repels water.
* The Grasshopper has several "layers" of suspension built into the machine to give it a great ride. The seating is so comfortable, that almost no one ever feels the need to order a suspension seat
Grasshopper--No adjustments, not even foldable armrests, on the standard seat. Cordura fabric can absorb water and dirt.
* Again, very comfortable and no adjustments needed. By the way, what is the point of armrests if you are going to fold them up?
Fuel Tank:

Woods--11 gallon capacity with large opening for easy fueling.

Grasshopper--4.3 gallon standard, 8 gallon optional. Smaller tank opening.
* Tank opening is quite large, how much bigger do you need it to be to fit a fuel nozzle in. Yes, standard tank on the front mount diesel is kind of small. However, with the very low fuel use/hr., you can usually run a solid 8 hours without refueling. is
Hydro Oil:

Woods--large, exposed tank allows for cooler fluid and easier maintenance.

Grasshopper--smaller tank under/behind the seat. More difficult to access for maintenance.
* Grasshopper has a very effective cooling setup for the hydrs, and uses synthetic hydro oil. so, only a small tank is needed, saving space and weight.
Also, service is not an issue, as nothing ever has to be done to the tank, except pull off the cap when refilling with oil. Cap is easy to get to.

Tires:

Woods--23" drive tires in a variety of tread styles. Tail wheels are 2 inches taller than Grasshopper, with a heavier duty yoke.

Grasshopper--21" drive tires and smaller rear tires.
* never see problems with the Grasshopper yokes, unless operator is running over gravestones a lot while mowing at cemeterys.
tires are low profile/ low PSI. allows mower to float over soft ground, and, helps keep center of gravity low.

Deck:

Woods--reinforced baffling offers great cut quality and strength. 9/16" steel bar reinforces front edge of deck.

Grasshopper--Smaller front baffle and no reinforcing on the front edge.
* Just plain wrong. Grasshopper does have reinforcing on the front of the deck. however, it is not really needed, as deck front is very rigid due to the Grasshopper design.
Float:

Woods--deck is not rigidly fixed to the tractor frame, allowing it to tilt and float over ground contours.

Grasshopper--flotation kit available as an option, but only allows limited range of motion.
* Deck floats very well and gives a great cut even in rough conditions. With the optional float kit, deck can turn every which way but loose.
More deck strength:

Woods--over 2000 hours of testing with no failures, even with grass catcher vac attached for 500 hours. Deck casters mounted towards the outside of the deck eliminates need for anti-scalp wheels and follows ground for a smoother cut.

Grasshopper--major structural failure after 30 hours of testing with one deck model. Failed at 62 hours on another model. The picture showed broken welds at the main deck pivot point, where it raises or lowers the deck. Smaller deck caster wheels.
* Probably a lie, or a rigged test. I have seen 10 year old Grasshoppers that were totally abused by careless municipal employees and the decks, while beat and bent, still operated and cut fine.

So there you have pretty much what the brochure says. I want to make it clear that I am not trying to bash Grasshopper or praise Woods. I just happened to see this brochure and thought the original author of this thread would be interested in seeing a comparison of some key features. Let me reiterate by saying that I have not operated either a Woods front mount or a Grasshopper of any kind. This is just what the brochure points out. Most of the comparisons can be taken directly from the specs for each mower, like tire size, fuel capacity, etc.

These are my observations after owning and operating Grasshoppers for 10 years, and selling and servicing them for 4 years.

Cooter
10-29-2008, 10:04 PM
I have seen a similar comparison between the Grasshopper and the Frontrunner. Again Exmark putting this out to inform you of the differences. All are quality machines. I was told that Exmark is waiting to see what the sales does of the Frontrunner before making any decisions about the line.

STIHL GUY
10-29-2008, 10:07 PM
seems like a nice mower

puppypaws
10-29-2008, 11:10 PM
These are my observations after owning and operating Grasshoppers for 10 years, and selling and servicing them for 4 years.

I certainly find this very odd with you speaking very highly and knowledgeable of Grasshopper mowers.

I did a dealer search and there is not a Grasshopper dealer to be found in Charlotte, NC, or it's entire county of Mecklenburg. Now, with my way of thinking (not knowing anything about Grasshopper) and the Charlotte, NC area having hundreds of LCO's; there should be one Grasshopper dealer in a market that large. You will see every mower manufactured on trailers throughout the Charlotte area, but you never see Grasshopper mowers on any lawn maintenance trailers.

Why would you think Grasshopper would not have a dealership competing in a tremendous market area if it can prove it worthiness to sell against Scag, Exmark, Bobcat, Toro and Hustler? These are the brands seen on 99% percent of lawn maintenance trailers in that area.

Let's say Grasshopper is a very good mower (personally having no idea). How is it possible for their company to miss at least a small market share in an area with thousands of mowers running everyday?

Just a question, would appreciate a reasonable answer?

pflasch
10-30-2008, 12:11 AM
Exmark FrontRunner died several years ago! Exmark killed it because of poor sales.
Now, I understand form 2 different Exmark dealers the Navigator hasn'r been manufactured in a couple of years, and Exmark is no longer going to produce them... and they are selling off the remaining inventory still in the main warehouse!
Too bad too... I believe good competition improves everything!

tacoma200
10-30-2008, 08:49 AM
I certainly find this very odd with you speaking very highly and knowledgeable of Grasshopper mowers.

I did a dealer search and there is not a Grasshopper dealer to be found in Charlotte, NC, or it's entire county of Mecklenburg. Now, with my way of thinking (not knowing anything about Grasshopper) and the Charlotte, NC area having hundreds of LCO's; there should be one Grasshopper dealer in a market that large. You will see every mower manufactured on trailers throughout the Charlotte area, but you never see Grasshopper mowers on any lawn maintenance trailers.

Why would you think Grasshopper would not have a dealership competing in a tremendous market area if it can prove it worthiness to sell against Scag, Exmark, Bobcat, Toro and Hustler? These are the brands seen on 99% percent of lawn maintenance trailers in that area.

Let's say Grasshopper is a very good mower (personally having no idea). How is it possible for their company to miss at least a small market share in an area with thousands of mowers running everyday?

Just a question, would appreciate a reasonable answer?

It must be a regional thing, you never see a Hustler, Walker, Bad Boy, Ferris, Woods, etc. here but Grasshoppers make up about about 1/3 of the total market share (just guessing). They outsell everything else. Grasshopper, Scag, Dixies, with a few Exmarks, Gravely's are what I see. I know some retired LCO,s that put untold thousands of hours on them and the largest LCO in our area runs all Grasshopper diesels. Just think how popular Bobcats are in New Jersey and you rarely see one here. Just my thoughts.

mcduff48
10-30-2008, 02:40 PM
It must be a regional thing, you never see a Hustler, Walker, Bad Boy, Ferris, Woods, etc. here but Grasshoppers make up about about 1/3 of the total market share (just guessing). They outsell everything else. Grasshopper, Scag, Dixies, with a few Exmarks, Gravely's are what I see. I know some retired LCO,s that put untold thousands of hours on them and the largest LCO in our area runs all Grasshopper diesels. Just think how popular Bobcats are in New Jersey and you rarely see one here. Just my thoughts.

It seems that almost every brand has it's pockets of popularity which are the direct results of the efforts of the marketing and after sale support provided by the dealers in those areas. Grasshopper seems to be a growing factor in my area, an area that has been dominated by Exmark, Toro and Scag for years. We're seeing more of them on trailers every season. :usflag:

puppypaws
10-30-2008, 03:04 PM
It must be a regional thing, you never see a Hustler, Walker, Bad Boy, Ferris, Woods, etc. here but Grasshoppers make up about about 1/3 of the total market share (just guessing). They outsell everything else. Grasshopper, Scag, Dixies, with a few Exmarks, Gravely's are what I see. I know some retired LCO,s that put untold thousands of hours on them and the largest LCO in our area runs all Grasshopper diesels. Just think how popular Bobcats are in New Jersey and you rarely see one here. Just my thoughts.

I know Grasshopper makes a great mower, I just can't understand how they can miss a market as large as Charlotte, NC's. I don't understand the business sense behind this, when I have a product I manufacture and feel it is as good if not better than any on the market, I want the exposure. I want my mower right in the mix, so I can prove to the public how good my product and company actually is.

I have a hard time understanding how a number of American manufactures conduct business. I think they need to send people to Toyota and learn their business process, I know GM would like to have a few pointers to head them in the right direction if it was not already too late.

Mowingman
10-30-2008, 06:37 PM
It has to do with finding reputable dealers and good distributors I guess. I have no idea why Grasshopper may not be well known there. Mower brand preferences are very regional it seems. In this area, it is almost impossible to find a Badboy dealer or a Hustler dealer. Yet, in other areas, those two brands are well represented. Exmark, is also not well represented around here, and we are in the Dallas Ft. Worth area.

puppypaws
10-30-2008, 08:46 PM
It has to do with finding reputable dealers and good distributors I guess. I have no idea why Grasshopper may not be well known there. Mower brand preferences are very regional it seems. In this area, it is almost impossible to find a Badboy dealer or a Hustler dealer. Yet, in other areas, those two brands are well represented. Exmark, is also not well represented around here, and we are in the Dallas Ft. Worth area.

There is a Grasshopper dealer about 20 minutes from Charlotte. They are actually a larger farm equipment dealer which sells Kubota tractors and zero turns along with Grasshopper mowers. I honestly don't know why you never see a Grasshopper with this large market area, but then again I have no idea why Hustler is not in Dallas Ft. Worth which is a tremendous market area.

MONTE
10-31-2008, 08:48 AM
There is deffinately regional brands on equipment! However I would like to see one of these woods mowers in person!

mcduff48
10-31-2008, 11:37 AM
I can only speak for myself but, IMHO buying power equipment from Woods is sort of like buying cooked food from a Subway because they don't even have a kitchen. ......Like I said, it's only an opinion. I'll stick with a name that actually makes the mower. Years down the road, I may be able to get support from someone who knows what I have and where it was made. :usflag:

MONTE
10-31-2008, 08:02 PM
I like subway! None of these com panies make everything themselves! This front cut woods is interesting at least in the pics!

Green King
11-01-2008, 07:42 PM
I sent woods an email requesting more info! If you compare woods vs gravely they are not the same! Diffrent engines etc.!

MONTE
11-09-2008, 08:34 PM
I asked the local Encore dealer about the woods mowers! He said the front cut fz series is a woods design that encore is building for woods! the fe front cut is a encore prowler! He did say the fe is probably going away in favor of the fz woods units!

Green King
11-11-2008, 08:19 PM
They emailed me back and are sending some info to me! No local dealer for me but I would like to try one out!

jpiwowar
12-03-2008, 12:34 AM
Much of the difference is in the refinement of a Grasshopper. I can't say enough about GH's hydro system. Also, many dealers read the MSRP when you're just doing your shopping. Make sure you are comparing Woods MSRP... You can get a 722D2 for a pretty good price now since Grasshopper's introduction of the 725DT. There's a few of 'em left in Western PA.

m1lkman
06-28-2011, 01:17 PM
Sorry to resurrect an old thread. I just wanted to find out if anyone ended up operating one of these Woods FZ mowers..

Thanks in advance

M1lkman