PDA

View Full Version : Issues on Walkers and Navigators


A-Land
10-12-2008, 09:05 PM
First off, please only reply if you run these machines. If you just have an opinion on what you think is better, thanks, but no thanks.

I'm looking to purchase either a Walker GHS or Navigator.

I plan on buying used (lightly used...) and I wanted to hear from people who run these machines if any recent fixes were very necessary to how they run. For instance, exmark made a few changes to the navigator within a few years of it coming out in 2005 I believe. Walker upgraded the size of the blowers in 2007 I believe and possibly the frames too. (Among other changes to each, of course)

Should I try to only look at machines a few years old at the most? Or should I be okay with any year?

Thanks!

truthnlife13
10-12-2008, 09:44 PM
For about 8 months now. We have 2 at my groundskeeper job and I just bought one for myself. There are 2- 99's and 1- 98. My 99 has had the blower upgraded. Big improvement ! Have only sat on a Navigator but never used it.

b121774
10-12-2008, 10:05 PM
Definately on the Walker side, try to stick with the MT with bigger blower or an older MT with an upgraded blower. You can also upgrade an older MT with a new blower for as cheap as $400 as I've heard. You cannot upgrade the MC walker easily so stay away from it unless it's the new style with 10.5" blower already in it. I have an 08 MT and I love it!

A-Land
10-12-2008, 10:27 PM
I'm leaning toward the navigator because it seems more streamlined.... and a lot of the issues seem like they are minute. (minUte as in small lol)

1wezil
10-12-2008, 10:58 PM
? ? ? ? Bump bump

A-Land
10-12-2008, 11:07 PM
^^ haha okay..... thanks

GrasMstr
10-12-2008, 11:20 PM
Test drove the Walker, didn't care for the controls and fit of the machine.
Tested and bought a Navigator 225 hrs ago and would buy another.
Some very small issues with bolts coming loose and such. Like the handling better than the Walker. Wish Exmark had options. Mine is the 27 Hp 48 Inch cut

A-Land
10-12-2008, 11:41 PM
Test drove the Walker, didn't care for the controls and fit of the machine.
Tested and bought a Navigator 225 hrs ago and would buy another.
Some very small issues with bolts coming loose and such. Like the handling better than the Walker. Wish Exmark had options. Mine is the 27 Hp 48 Inch cut

Yeah the ability to attach a SD deck is a bonus, but I'm buying it to bag and that's it. I have my scag to SD.

What did it cost out the door?

Should I definitely go with the 27 hp over the 20 hp? Do you know the approx GPH for the 27? That's a big engine for a 48" deck :weightlifter:

BarrFarms
10-12-2008, 11:58 PM
The exmark is several hundred pounds heavier, and it makes a huge difference. It also has a molded plastic around the seat and what not, and gets in the way frequently. I demo'd both and now own a walker.

A-Land
10-13-2008, 01:40 AM
haha two people who demo's both and bought the opposite...... to each his own

Aaron Marshall
10-13-2008, 01:46 AM
I have a 2003 walker i have owned since new and I did a exmark navigator demo, and I'm switching. The controls are slightly different handling than the walker (walker is a little easier) but the speed and sucktion of the navigator is far superior. I also demoed the new walker with the larger blower and it still did not compair to the navigator; navigator has a 5" deep deck vs. 4 on a walker. Navigator also seemed better on hills. The guy that sells them around here has done some slight modifications to the deck springs to take a little more weight off the back end as people were getting the puck marks from the back wheels. Hope that helps, but you should try them both out for yourself and see what you like better! :waving:

aird208
10-13-2008, 02:27 AM
We demoed them both last spring and we own a navigator. The faster ground speed adds productivity when going back to the truck to dump or just mowing. (I am always running at full speed, haha) Oh and definetly get the 27hp you never know when you'll need the extra power, We mowed a new account this week that was way over grown, 9-15 inches long, bagged it like it was nothin. The only problem we have had was a hydro line split (covered under warranty, and my dealer gave me a demo to use while it was being worked on). Do a search on here and there are a few good threads about the Walker vs Navigator.

J & M Lawn Care
10-13-2008, 03:33 AM
First off, please only reply if you run these machines. If you just have an opinion on what you think is better, thanks, but no thanks.

I'm looking to purchase either a Walker GHS or Navigator.

I plan on buying used (lightly used...) and I wanted to hear from people who run these machines if any recent fixes were very necessary to how they run. For instance, exmark made a few changes to the navigator within a few years of it coming out in 2005 I believe. Walker upgraded the size of the blowers in 2007 I believe and possibly the frames too. (Among other changes to each, of course)

Should I try to only look at machines a few years old at the most? Or should I be okay with any year?

Thanks!

I had a walker mower 07 20hp 42in. Bought it brand new 4 months later the motor blow, got it fixed, but it was the fact that it happend that soon. sometimes when i go to shut the mower off after a yard, and it wouldnt shut off. Walker is very slow and has less blade speed then the navigator. It does a good cut, but not worth the trouble. Also jerks like heck when you hit a bump(dangerous)<-- back end comes up. Not good on small hills. Also i have had other problems wrong with it since the new motor. I will never get another one

I own a exmark 27hp 60in, bought it brand new also, had it over a year now, not a single problem

GrasMstr
10-13-2008, 10:36 AM
Yeah the ability to attach a SD deck is a bonus, but I'm buying it to bag and that's it. I have my scag to SD.

What did it cost out the door?

Should I definitely go with the 27 hp over the 20 hp? Do you know the approx GPH for the 27? That's a big engine for a 48" deck :weightlifter:

Absolutely true-To each his own.

I prefer the controls on the Nav.
As for the plastic parts. I replace anything that is broken immediately and one of the first questions I asked when buying was how much those plastic parts were and they were reasonable on both Walker and Nav.

12,205 out the door with 13% in Canadian Taxes. I get 5% Back.

Honestly haven't checked the GPH yet. That is an end of year calc for me along with total fuel cost/mach and avg fuel price.:canadaflag:

Cutter1
10-13-2008, 10:54 AM
I have a walker myself, I like it, but a lot of people I know are switching to the navigator. Better cut, better on hills, I demoed one and liked it myself, but my walker is paid for. :)

lawnproslawncare
10-13-2008, 11:08 AM
I own a walker, bought it used, and love it. 3600 hours on machine today, minor problems, love the handling.
On the other hand, I've test drove the Navigators, They just don't like hill sides, the tail wheel is tooooo small, I don't think they pack grass in as well as the walkers (believe me, I have to get off and practically fork it out sometimes) which means more trips to dump.
This is only my opinion, I've wanted a walker since I was 5 (lol) now I'm 22.

Lawdog302
10-13-2008, 11:41 AM
Why not go with the original? Walker has been making and perfecting there machine since 1980. The navigator copied walker since it was so good and doesn't have the past history of the trial and error. Look at all the attachements walker has and the company is awsome as well. I have driven the navigator and thought it was a decent machine, but i would not get rid of my 2 walkers for exmark.

flatlander42
10-13-2008, 01:19 PM
i love my exmark.its an '05 it has the 27hp, 48" deck and has plenty of power. the hopper fills to the brim and sometimes i have to jerk the mower around just to empty it and it does that every time...nice and full...i dont let it get so full when i am suckin up leaves because it fills all the way to the top and goes right up against the screen (loosing air flow) but that is fine, and as expected. the only problem i have is with it charging. so untill i am done this season i use it like my cell phone, charge it every other night! not a big deal, but a lil bit of a PITA. i have not heard of adjusting the springs to help with the rear tire swivle? in some areas i have the little puck mark too, i will have to look into that.

the controles are so similar its just something that the small difference is just something to get used to. no problem at all.

and yeah, it is fast, you will love that. i think that it is faster than a walker with the speed up kit? i am not for sure about that, but i didnt need a kit! and no, i can not mow at full speed all the time. but when i can....WHewwwww!!! well worth it just to drive to the truck too.

oh and the gph is around 1-1 or so, depending on how much your cutting

here is a pic of what i was using and my navigator. yeah the walker is BEAT 3000+hrs.

so i have used NEWER walkers when this one was in the shop

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk198/masternate42/100_1427.jpg

tomo
10-13-2008, 02:10 PM
hi
own 2x walkers/gaser /diesel /3rd in bits and toro diesel 60 inch
demoed nav

Nav
feels slightly bigger
little heavier than walker gaser
build is heavy duty compared to walker [only in some areas]
no engine option s diesel /efi
2 only deck options
von ruden deck boxes standard on nav but are expensive to fix option on walk
faster than walker
no commercially available high lift dump for nav

Walker upgrade machine constantly and do not wait till the next year/model comes out . Unless there is a major issue nav will remain unchanged during a model

The nav has good potential

tomo:waving:

ps any body know what the front tire size is on the nav
just maybe fit walker . The front caster wheel bearings are a joke on walker

A-Land
10-13-2008, 04:50 PM
I think that picture above really shows the differences well. The nav seems much more robust and the deck seems to be laid out in a better manner.

What is the circular mark behind and slightly above the driver seat? (looks like left to right two grommets, vertical grove, and then some circular thing that's not on the walker)

ztrlvr
10-13-2008, 05:08 PM
A pre-95 Walker (with 7.0 catcher) vs a new Nav.?


Nice comparison...

A-Land
10-13-2008, 05:37 PM
The differences that I pointed out have not changed.

According to my dealer Walker is going up 10-12% in price next year.... :(

A-Land
10-13-2008, 07:25 PM
Exmark only 2-4%.....

Mowingman
10-13-2008, 07:31 PM
If you want a Navigator, better buy one quick. Word at a number of Exmark dealers, is, that sales on the Navigator are very slow, and it will probably be discontinued soon. This should tell you which brand sells the best overall. Walker cranks them out of their factory day in day out, with no problems in the area of sales.

flatlander42
10-13-2008, 08:18 PM
A pre-95 Walker (with 7.0 catcher) vs a new Nav.?


Nice comparison...





that is a '96 walker and an '05 navigator :p

and also you could read my entire post....i was not only comparing that old a$$ walker, i was using my time on Newer walkers too...

sorry my expirence has not been Scientific enough for you....





all i was giving was my opinion...and i will stop from here on out about my navigator...jeesh...




and mowingman...i have not heard that :confused: good thing i dont plan on buying another bagging mower for awhile! :cool2:


thats all for now


Nathan

A-Land
10-13-2008, 08:41 PM
If you want a Navigator, better buy one quick. Word at a number of Exmark dealers, is, that sales on the Navigator are very slow, and it will probably be discontinued soon. This should tell you which brand sells the best overall. Walker cranks them out of their factory day in day out, with no problems in the area of sales.

Really? I spoke to a few guys at MB Tractor and they said they are selling walkers and navigators at about a 1 to 1 rate...

When walker's prices go up 10-12% next year, I bet the navigator sales will increase quite a bit.

Mowingman
10-13-2008, 09:14 PM
Well, maybe, if:
1. they are still being produced at all
2. Exmark does not increase prices along with everyone else


Really? I spoke to a few guys at MB Tractor and they said they are selling walkers and navigators at about a 1 to 1 rate...

When walker's prices go up 10-12% next year, I bet the navigator sales will increase quite a bit.

A-Land
10-13-2008, 09:22 PM
We will have to see but I hope not........ they have both made the other better

BarrFarms
10-13-2008, 10:27 PM
My walker dealer dosen't carry exmark's navigator, but keeps their z's in stock. Exmark customer service told me they would expand options when sells increased, that way my answer to efi and sd. That attitude is justifyable, in ways, but lost the sell of a possible 2 for next year. MTLGHS31's:weightlifter:

GrassmasterB
10-13-2008, 10:29 PM
here is a pic of what i was using and my navigator. yeah the walker is BEAT 3000+hrs.

so i have used NEWER walkers when this one was in the shop

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk198/masternate42/100_1427.jpg

judging by your pic, it appears the old walker is still the most used. the navigator is still clean and the walkers deck is full of grass. for a better comparison than your 96' vs 05', here's my 08' walker. there's been alot of changes since 1996.

A-Land
10-13-2008, 10:38 PM
judging by your pic, it appears the old walker is still the most used. the navigator is still clean and the walkers deck is full of grass. for a better comparison than your 96' vs 05', here's my 08' walker. there's been alot of changes since 1996.

Great, thanks for the picture. That's much better!

grass_boy
10-13-2008, 11:00 PM
Have run Walkers now for 10 years. Don't know much about the Navigator. Find it hard to believe the Walker can be beat. The 26 EFI is an awesome engine. Great fuel economy and the last one we had lasted 3500 hours. Once your used to the controls its a breeze running those things. Wouldn't do without them.

1wezil
10-13-2008, 11:05 PM
Man this is getting to be a HOT subject !!!!

A-Land
10-13-2008, 11:07 PM
That's good though..... discussion is better for everyone

grass_boy
10-13-2008, 11:21 PM
Forgot to mention this in response to your original question. (new vs. used) We have had very good success buying used machines with under 500 hours. If you are careful the savings can be significant. I hope whatever you get your satisfied with. Good luck.

2k1yzfr1
10-13-2008, 11:35 PM
Not wanting to hijack your thread, but how do you go from bagging to rear discharge on the navigator? Is the deck the trivantage? As far as bagging roughly how many 5k sq ft yards can you mow during spring growth between dumps? We are really picky with the quality of cut and have been using hydro walks with velkies for the past couple years, but this Navigator is looking quite nice.

Turf Dawg
10-13-2008, 11:59 PM
I tried both in 07 and bought the Walker. This does not mean that I did not like the Navigator though. One of the things that sold me on the Walker was the very compact size and the ability to get just about any attachment a man can afford. One of the fears of the Navigator was how long will they be around. The Scagg Couger and the Toro did not seem to last very long.

A-Land
10-14-2008, 12:15 AM
I tried both in 07 and bought the Walker. This does not mean that I did not like the Navigator though. One of the things that sold me on the Walker was the very compact size and the ability to get just about any attachment a man can afford. One of the fears of the Navigator was how long will they be around. The Scagg Couger and the Toro did not seem to last very long.

I thought maybe the price would make it easier to decide......

11k for a walker 48" efi
10.8k for the 27 hp 48" nav

The Cougar (and before that, the prerunner) was actually around for a while. Problem was most dealers also sold walkers, so there was never a huge market for them.

The toro I know less about.

I do know that Toro and Scag changed the design from the original walker quite a bit adding and changing things. The navigator is much closer to the original walker with a few modifications and upgrades.

flatlander42
10-14-2008, 12:26 AM
judging by your pic, it appears the old walker is still the most used. the navigator is still clean and the walkers deck is full of grass. for a better comparison than your 96' vs 05', here's my 08' walker. there's been alot of changes since 1996.




first of all, that pic was in late june when i first got my navigator, so on that day i had done nothing with the navigator but drop it off of a trailer...that is why it is not dirty...that walker was my old bosses, he got out of it, i took over bought my navigator, and then it has been the only mower i have used besides my pos mtd push mower..


second of all your '08 looks sweet.

i have not said anything neg. about the walkers.

i got a killer deal on this mower, one i could not have got at the time with a walker, so i took it.

I LIKE WALKERS TOO, i just dont run one. it is all you see in my area and they all ask me about mine:dancing: its got them thinking....



and for you 2k1yzfr1, my mower is a BAG ONLY...no multch no nothing. its an 05, and i dont think they had that deck with the multch option ect. ect. for a few years...i dont know though


i dump it after all yards, i like to have it empty when i begin the next yard. and it all depends on the customer if they are OCD watering/fert. it all differs.


later,

Nathan

DLAWNS
10-14-2008, 10:31 AM
I think that picture above really shows the differences well. The nav seems much more robust and the deck seems to be laid out in a better manner.

What is the circular mark behind and slightly above the driver seat? (looks like left to right two grommets, vertical grove, and then some circular thing that's not on the walker)

That would be the spot where the ear piercing beep comes from when the hopper is full. It's convenient but loud. I've run Walkers in the past and loved them. I than demoed a Navigator at my old dealer and hated it. I was going to buy a walker, but than demoed the navigator again at my new dealer. It started to grow on me plus I couldn't beat the price (10,200) and the financing was great. I now love my Navigator. My only gripe is with the extra speed I feel like I tear up more grass around turns than would happen with my Toro Z. Other than that I love my Navigator.

tallimeca
10-14-2008, 11:37 AM
The exmark is several hundred pounds heavier, and it makes a huge difference. It also has a molded plastic around the seat and what not, and gets in the way frequently. I demo'd both and now own a walker.

The only weight issue between the two has been that the Navigator's frames and components have held up without issue for 4 years now..... If you want to call that an issue. You are talking about 200lbs. That would be a big difference on a walk behind, but something you ride on, it's not. Basically what you are saying is you wouldn't put a 350lb heavy guy on your walker because it would cut different, so instead you put your 150lb worker on it.......

The moded plastic around the seat? There is a cup holder of sort on the left hand side....... don't see the issue with this? The control console is on the right. 4 screws and it's off. How many screws do you have to take off to get the walker console off?? About 12. Then they strip out.

How the hell does it get in the way? :confused:

von ruden deck boxes standard on nav but are expensive to fix option on walk

Incorrect. Navigator does not use Von Ruden gearboxes. They use Superior Gear boxes. They are CRAZY heavy duty. They are like the rear end in a car. To date, i have seen 1 gearbox issue in 4 years. It was still running, but making noise. One of the crew guys took the seal protector off the bottom and the seal started leaking. They never put oil back in so the bearing went. It was still working, just loud. You DO NOT have to replace the complete gear box. You can replace components individually. I have yet to see someone destroy a gear in these. Each gearbox is individually sealed so if one fails, all the oil don't leak out. These gearboxes are night and day from walker. Walkers new cast iron gearboxes are NOW the same aluminum gearboxes, except with a cast iron housing and the same internals........Whoopee!!!

What is the circular mark behind and slightly above the driver seat? (looks like left to right two grommets, vertical grove, and then some circular thing that's not on the walker)

That is the fill alarm buzzer. That usually only last untill the guys ripped the wires out of it like they do on the walkers. The nice thing about the navigators, it doesn't have that stupid rotating chute, which on the walkers, hardly last a season and it gets stuck in one spot. See the link in my sig for pic comparrisons.

If you want a Navigator, better buy one quick. Word at a number of Exmark dealers, is, that sales on the Navigator are very slow, and it will probably be discontinued soon. This should tell you which brand sells the best overall. Walker cranks them out of their factory day in day out, with no problems in the area of sales.

This in not true. It's the FRONTRUNNER that's on the block to get discontinued. Some of the propaganda on here .........

No one including Exmark thinks the Navigator is going to outsell the Walker. That's not a goal of anyone's. Walker makes their machines and all their attachments to go along with them. Exmark makes an outfront, dedicated bagger machine, like the walker. You will never see all the options from Exmark like walker has because no matter how good sales our, they aren't going to put Walker out of business. It's not their intention.

Their intention is however, to offer a similar product to customers who want to buy exmark product. It's as simple as that. The people that view it as Exmark vs Walker view it wrong. That fact that Emark makes as good a product (if not better in my, and others who have posted here, in the post as well), is all the better.

Best said on here when someone said if you want a machine with all the attachments, buy a walker. If you want a better machine, buy a Navigator.

It's obviously, (and painfully obvious to some of the hardcore walker guys that are fans of their own lawnmowers like they are of their local sports team???) that the Navigator is not a cheap knockoff that will fall by the waste side.

Now, let's talk prices, because this is always discussed. I'll lay it out on the table.

This years post sale price from Exmark on a 27hp 48" deck was around $11,900. I'm not 100% sure, so don't call me a liar, but Walker's price on a 26efi, 48" unit with the 9bu bag and cast iron boxes was $11,400.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT IS WHAT YOUR DEALER WAS SELLING THEM FOR OR WHAT YOU PAID FOR IT, SO DON'T POST HOW YOU PAID LESS. I'm talking book price on them out of their dealer program.

I've seen Exmark's 09' prices.

The same model in 09 will be $13,700. I haven't seen Walkers prices but I heard they were going up 10-12% or 1-1.5K dollars. Which would put the prices on similar models at about the same price jump. Exmark across the board went up about this percentage. While companies like Scag and Gravely had increases this year, Exmark did not go up all that much. Hence the larger jump now.

All manufacturers will have increases. Cold rolled steal per pound nearly trippled since this spring. The increases are unavoidable. The only bright side is, the manufacturers are in a position to possible lower prices at some point if the cost of steel were to drop.

If you are looking for a machine, try and buy some 08 stock because you will get a deal and a half!!!

I can't wait to see all the posts in the spring of guys paying 2k more for a machine and thinking they got ripped off because the next guy found an 08 model for far less...........

tallimeca
10-14-2008, 11:53 AM
if exmark were to run their instant rebate program like they did this year (which i think and hope they will)...... it was 1k off.

So you would be looking at around 12,700 or possibly a little less on the exmark.

ztrlvr
10-14-2008, 11:56 AM
That is the fill alarm buzzer. That usually only last untill the guys ripped the wires out of it like they do on the walkers. The nice thing about the navigators, it doesn't have that stupid rotating chute, which on the walkers, hardly last a season and it gets stuck in one spot. See the link in my sig for pic comparrisons.

I better buy a lottery ticket because I am so lucky that I am on my fifth year with my stupid rotating chute with zero failure. :confused: Bet I am the only guy out there to not have a problem with it.

dishboy
10-14-2008, 12:00 PM
The only weight issue between the two has been that the Navigator's frames and components have held up without issue for 4 years now..... If you want to call that an issue. You are talking about 200lbs. That would be a big difference on a walk behind, but something you ride on, it's not.

Were talking about a mower whose intended use is for confined areas. If you don't think a 20% increase in weight is a issue for any type mower you haven't spent much time in the field, or you are blind, or will like most salesman, lie like a dog to sell your product. You choose which one but I after twenty seven years in the field will assert that 200 lbs is a BIG ISSUE!

coolluv
10-14-2008, 05:55 PM
if exmark were to run their instant rebate program like they did this year (which i think and hope they will)...... it was 1k off.

So you would be looking at around 12,700 or possibly a little less on the exmark.

Is it me or do any of you other guys think that $13700 is insane to pay for a mower? $1500 or $2000 more for a mower because of the increased cost of steel and other components to build the mower? I find it hard to believe that it cost that much more to build a mower.

I realize and understand that because of the exploding economies around the globe that commodity prices have gone up. Simple supply and demand. But I just can't believe that a $2000 increase on a mower is justified. Car manufacturers have had to deal with the same commodity increases and car and truck prices did not jump $2000 from last year. Why then would a mower with 1/1000 of the amount of metal and rubber and plastic etc. jump $2000.

I will tell you why. First off, mower manufacturers want to make more profit and want to blame it on commodity price increases. Secondly, as long as we are willing to pay these absurd prices, why not. Its just like the Hurricane Blower, Waaaaay over priced. But you see guys on here that sound like they work for Hurricane saying, if it saves you money you can pay for it in one season. Its worth every penny.

I say Bull$$it. A fool and his money are soon departed. Look, I don't mind paying a reasonable price for a quality product. But come on man, $13700 for a mower. $12000 for a ride on blower. Give me a break. I paid $7700 for my Hustler Z and thought that was a crazy. But, its no where near $13700. What is the breaking point. $20,000.

When do you guys finally get fed up. Have lawn prices increased? Lawn prices have been flat or decreased over the years. How long are you going to have to work, and how many hours are you going to have to rack up on that machine to pay for it. If the average lawn is $30. 457 lawns thats how many. Thats alot of work in the hot sun to pay for a mower.

But hey you guys are loaded right. Water off a ducks back. Stop drinking the koolaid.

Ok I'm done now.

Dave...

ed2hess
10-14-2008, 06:18 PM
Is it me or do any of you other guys think that $13700 is insane to pay for a mower? $1500 or $2000 more for a mower because of the increased cost of steel and other components to build the mower? I find it hard to believe that it cost that much more to build a mower.

I realize and understand that because of the exploding economies around the globe that commodity prices have gone up. Simple supply and demand. But I just can't believe that a $2000 increase on a mower is justified. Car manufacturers have had to deal with the same commodity increases and car and truck prices did not jump $2000 from last year. Why then would a mower with 1/1000 of the amount of metal and rubber and plastic etc. jump $2000.

I will tell you why. First off, mower manufacturers want to make more profit and want to blame it on commodity price increases. Secondly, as long as we are willing to pay these absurd prices, why not. Its just like the Hurricane Blower, Waaaaay over priced. But you see guys on here that sound like they work for Hurricane saying, if it saves you money you can pay for it in one season. Its worth every penny.

I say Bull$$it. A fool and his money are soon departed. Look, I don't mind paying a reasonable price for a quality product. But come on man, $13700 for a mower. $12000 for a ride on blower. Give me a break. I paid $7700 for my Hustler Z and thought that was a crazy. But, its no where near $13700. What is the breaking point. $20,000.

When do you guys finally get fed up. Have lawn prices increased? Lawn prices have been flat or decreased over the years. How long are you going to have to work, and how many hours are you going to have to rack up on that machine to pay for it. If the average lawn is $30. 457 lawns thats how many. Thats alot of work in the hot sun to pay for a mower.

But hey you guys are loaded right. Water off a ducks back. Stop drinking the koolaid.

Ok I'm done now.

Dave...
Give em hell Dave we ain't going to take it any more.....

tallimeca
10-14-2008, 06:58 PM
Dave, I agree with you 100 percent. When i started seeing the prices these machines are supposed to sell for, my stomach dropped. The worst part is, the dealer's profits sure aren't going up so I can't even try to work some price off these things to make more sales.

The fact of the matter is the price of steel has tripple in the past year. Research it for yourself.

The truth be told, dealer had a soft year selling commercial equipment, which means commercial guys weren't buying. I dont' see it getting better this year. Higher prices for you guys, less sales for us......:cry:

tallimeca
10-14-2008, 07:02 PM
Were talking about a mower whose intended use is for confined areas. If you don't think a 20% increase in weight is a issue for any type mower you haven't spent much time in the field, or you are blind, or will like most salesman, lie like a dog to sell your product. You choose which one but I after twenty seven years in the field will assert that 200 lbs is a BIG ISSUE!

Were not cutting grass in a closet here. If an area is going to get marked up by a 1200lb machine, it's going to get marked up by 1k lb machine. I'm sure you have cut WAY MORE GRASS then I ever will, however, guess who you go to with your complaints of the machines.......?? If there were gripes, I would be hearing them. Haven't heard them.

Guys in the post are saying these machines handle on hills better than Walkers, and vice versa. All depends on YOU and YOUR AREA on THAT DAY.

A-Land
10-14-2008, 07:07 PM
Car manufacturers have had to deal with the same commodity increases and car and truck prices did not jump $2000 from last year. Why then would a mower with 1/1000 of the amount of metal and rubber and plastic etc. jump $2000.

Of course you're right. Luckily in MA, most people realize that prices are increasing. In Atlanta the population is very different and that may be the case.

However, I'm sure the manufactures are doing well. How have the automakers been doing? 0% for 72 months and they still can't move inventory!!

Of course now they are asking for bailouts....

I don't think that they are gouging us, but it is an obscene amount of money. I told a customer the other day what a new Scag walk-behind would be and they nearly fainted.

Now more than ever proper maintenance is a key to running a successful business. People can't afford machines breaking down all the time, and money constantly being re-invested on machines that are only a few years old.

BarrFarms
10-14-2008, 07:15 PM
Tallimeca- when will we see an efi? Exmark told me when they sold more they'd invest into new attachments and options. That's crazy, why would you invest in a "niche"mower hoping they would make enough $ to add more options and pass it back over to you? And the 26 EFI and 27 is hardly a comparison, it will burn much less fuel.

Mowingman
10-14-2008, 07:36 PM
I put 1700 hours on my Walker, and the rotating fill spout never had one problem. The fill alarm buzzer only quit working one time, and that was due to a dirty contact.


I better buy a lottery ticket because I am so lucky that I am on my fifth year with my stupid rotating chute with zero failure. :confused: Bet I am the only guy out there to not have a problem with it.

coolluv
10-14-2008, 08:00 PM
Dave, I agree with you 100 percent. When i started seeing the prices these machines are supposed to sell for, my stomach dropped. The worst part is, the dealer's profits sure aren't going up so I can't even try to work some price off these things to make more sales.

The fact of the matter is the price of steel has tripple in the past year. Research it for yourself.

The truth be told, dealer had a soft year selling commercial equipment, which means commercial guys weren't buying. I dont' see it getting better this year. Higher prices for you guys, less sales for us......:cry:

I watch CNBC daily and although I'm no economy expert by any means,and I totally agree with you on the steel prices tripling, but come on. Like I said before it does not justify that kind of an increase. If dealers had a soft year last year then this year will be worse. Supply and demand will take its natural course and prices will have to come down.

Just like the Car manufacturers had to layoff workers and close production facilities because of supply and demand. I know its not the dealers fault. You can only lower prices so much. I have read your many post and you seem like a good dealer, and a straight shooter. And I have to agree from reading your post on the Navigator and Walker. The Navigator looks like a better built machine.

Dave...

Green Pastures
10-14-2008, 08:21 PM
I've owned and operated Walkers now for about 5 years.

Never had an unreasonable problem with a Walker. What I mean by that is I've never had to fix something I didn't think had worn out under normal usage.

My rotating chutes all still work and as far as I know have never stopped working.

The full hopper beepers go out every now and then but a wire brush followed by some dilectric grease on the contacts fixes that in short order.

I've demo'd Navigators several times since they were introduced and have always been more impressed with my Walkers.

I use the 26efi motors on my Walkers. Keep em lubed and fresh oil in the case. You need to clean the fins out on a regular basis to keep that rear cylinder from overheating but the owners manual warns of that.

IMHO Walkers provide us with the best looking finished cut in the business.

A-Land
10-14-2008, 08:40 PM
I've owned and operated Walkers now for about 5 years.

Never had an unreasonable problem with a Walker. What I mean by that is I've never had to fix something I didn't think had worn out under normal usage.

My rotating chutes all still work and as far as I know have never stopped working.

The full hopper beepers go out every now and then but a wire brush followed by some dilectric grease on the contacts fixes that in short order.

I've demo'd Navigators several times since they were introduced and have always been more impressed with my Walkers.

I use the 26efi motors on my Walkers. Keep em lubed and fresh oil in the case. You need to clean the fins out on a regular basis to keep that rear cylinder from overheating but the owners manual warns of that.

IMHO Walkers provide us with the best looking finished cut in the business.

What do you think the comparable GPH are on the 26 EFI and the 27 air-cooled Kohler on the Navigator?

That may be a big deal if gas goes to $4.50 and up next summer, or sooner :cry:

KS_Grasscutter
10-14-2008, 08:46 PM
I think the Exmark needs more attachments/accessories. MOST of the Walkers here have dump bins in the hoppers, the rest have high dumps. Probably 75%/25% split. There are VERY FEW without either. I guess my point is, that Exmark needs to at least make some dump bins. They could probably pass on the high dump, it would just be considerably more weight on an already heavy machine.

Green Pastures
10-14-2008, 08:56 PM
What do you think the comparable GPH are on the 26 EFI and the 27 air-cooled Kohler on the Navigator?

That may be a big deal if gas goes to $4.50 and up next summer, or sooner :cry:



I would not have any idea as I have not owned a Navigator.

I do know that I get better GPH on my 26 efi Kohler on the Walker than the 25 carbuerated Kohler on the 52" Toro Z-Master.

If fuel prices go up and you think they'll go as high as $4.50 next summer then put some clauses in your contracts to cover your fuel costs. Surcharge is the operative word.

Demo them both side by side if you can. If the dealer wont let you demo a product is it really worth buying from him?

Demoing is the only way you will be sure.

Chilehead
10-14-2008, 08:58 PM
Is it me or do any of you other guys think that $13700 is insane to pay for a mower?

Yeah, I thought so too. I still would love to have a Navigator though. One of the leading dealers down here sells both Walker and Exmark. The Navigator in the showroom is an '06 and he can't seem to sell it. If Exmark is in fact going to discontinue it, how would one get replacement parts 5-6 years from now? Makes me rationalize that a Walker would be the way to go.

Turf Dawg
10-14-2008, 09:22 PM
I think the Exmark needs more attachments/accessories. MOST of the Walkers here have dump bins in the hoppers, the rest have high dumps. Probably 75%/25% split. There are VERY FEW without either. I guess my point is, that Exmark needs to at least make some dump bins. They could probably pass on the high dump, it would just be considerably more weight on an already heavy machine.

I have the dump bins for my Walker and I think they should have designed these better. My dealer said he hates it when people bring in their Navigator with some grass in the hopper because the door opens when you tilt the bin. That was one of the things I did like about the Navigator.

To be honest here I would like to take some of the things from the Walker and some of the things from the Navigator and combine these for the perfect mower.

b121774
10-14-2008, 09:52 PM
I love my walker but if i had bought a navigator I'm sure I would love it to. There is just not enough difference other than dealer support to sway me either way. Would walker have put in a bigger blower and beefed up the frame had the Navigator not shown them a better way? Don't know but my 08 MT is a beast and I love it. The main thing is the bigger blower. huge improvement over my 2 model C's. Yea, the Navigator is better than an earlier model Walker but not a new one(other than the drink holder!)

GrassmasterB
10-14-2008, 10:27 PM
Yea, the Navigator is better than an earlier model Walker but not a new one(other than the drink holder!)

if you need something to hold your drink on your walker, get one of these http://www.walker-ware.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PSTUK

A-Land
10-14-2008, 11:17 PM
This is such an impossible decision....... I thought this thread would make it easier, but it made it harder! haha

Green Pastures
10-14-2008, 11:18 PM
It is an easy decision.

You HAVE TO DEMO both mowers side by side.

Set it up and do it.

Turf Dawg
10-14-2008, 11:21 PM
It is an easy decision.

You HAVE TO DEMO both mowers side by side.

Set it up and do it.

Great advice. Thats how I choose.

A-Land
10-14-2008, 11:28 PM
Nobody has demos around here........ tallimica won't have a navigator to demo for at least a few weeks.

Looks like I need to do some more calling around...

Green Pastures
10-15-2008, 10:09 AM
Exmark and Walker WILL provide a demo machine to ANY authorized dealer in their network.

You need to find an Exmark dealer and a Walker dealer.

A-Land
10-15-2008, 03:30 PM
Exmark and Walker WILL provide a demo machine to ANY authorized dealer in their network.

You need to find an Exmark dealer and a Walker dealer.

Haha oh I have several... none of them have demo machines though. I'll try calling a few a bit further away to check to see what I can get my hands on.

Thanks for the advice

KS_Grasscutter
10-15-2008, 10:39 PM
Haha oh I have several... none of them have demo machines though. I'll try calling a few a bit further away to check to see what I can get my hands on.

Thanks for the advice

Don't call the dealer, call the factory sales reps. You WILL get a demo that way. They want to sell machines, and they know that a demo will help start that process.

A-Land
10-15-2008, 10:46 PM
Don't call the dealer, call the factory sales reps. You WILL get a demo that way. They want to sell machines, and they know that a demo will help start that process.

Okay, now that's some better advice. Can I get that info on the website? Or do you have a better way to get in contact with them?

ixlr8
10-16-2008, 08:25 AM
Okay, now that's some better advice. Can I get that info on the website? Or do you have a better way to get in contact with them? I was wondering how to get in touch with a rep as well. Local dealer has no interest in getting a Navigator in as he has had only 3 requests for info on the machine in 2 years.

dishboy
10-16-2008, 10:59 AM
Okay, now that's some better advice. Can I get that info on the website? Or do you have a better way to get in contact with them?

For Walker go google Walker mowers, go to their web site, click on contacts, click on find a dealer, put in your zip code and submit, their program gives you their distributor for your area with a phone number. The distributor will set you up and give you a choice of dealers in your area. Heads up, distributors have different pricing policies, for instance I go to Oregon (150 miles) as I really dislike the two local shops and it me saved me
$2600 on two model MB's I bought this summer.
__

A-Land
10-16-2008, 06:12 PM
Okay, I have a walker demo scheduled for the weekend. Wish me luck lol

tallimeca
10-16-2008, 11:13 PM
Nobody has demos around here........ tallimica won't have a navigator to demo for at least a few weeks.

Not happy about it either. We usually have a demo all year. I can get a 20hp demo no problem but I dont' think you want to demo that because it's not a fair comparrison. The issue with the 27 demo is it's currently in FAR NORTHERN NH and my sales rep has to go pick it up and bring it down which is an overnight even for him. It didn't seem like they wanted to send him a brand new demo unit at the new pricing....... We've chatted via pm and if anything changes i'll let you know. Good luck on the walker demo.

A-Land
10-16-2008, 11:36 PM
Not happy about it either. We usually have a demo all year. I can get a 20hp demo no problem but I dont' think you want to demo that because it's not a fair comparrison. The issue with the 27 demo is it's currently in FAR NORTHERN NH and my sales rep has to go pick it up and bring it down which is an overnight even for him. It didn't seem like they wanted to send him a brand new demo unit at the new pricing....... We've chatted via pm and if anything changes i'll let you know. Good luck on the walker demo.

Okay I answered your PM. Thanks for your help.

A-Land
10-18-2008, 12:52 AM
So I picked up an 08 Walker MT 26 EFI for a demo with about 160 hours on it. My first impression was how quiet the efi was...... everything ran smoothly so after tomorrow I should have more of an update.

I'll try to snap some pics of tomorrow's work.

GrassmasterB
10-18-2008, 02:19 AM
So I picked up an 08 Walker MT 26 EFI for a demo with about 160 hours on it. My first impression was how quiet the efi was...... everything ran smoothly so after tomorrow I should have more of an update.

I'll try to snap some pics of tomorrow's work.

my mt23 is quiet as well, i've had customers that i cut between 7:30 and 8:00comment on how much quieter my walker is than my hustler mini z. i'm sure the navigator would be the same with the similar setup. if you're not use to the controls already give it a couple of hours and you'll love it. took me a couple of hours to stop tearing the turf on turns but now i hate to use any other mower.

A-Land
10-18-2008, 06:14 PM
Well I used the walker today.......

I started out early and got done all of my regular lawns that needed to be side discharged, and then I came back to my house to exchange my scag for the walker.

First lawn........ First pass was fine, second pass I look back at where the first pass was and my first thought is WTF? Grass was cut fine but the machine left leaves all over the lawn. Of course, the machine had no screen in it!!!! I called them back but the gentleman who was working with me wasn't in, and they were going to be closing before I could even get there. I called another local Walker dealer, they were closed already.

The machine looked and ran fantastic, but I was surprised at how flimsy the deck seemed. Maybe I'm just used to running my scag with its 800 lb deck haha. It sure made the height changing easier, the deck wasn't soooo heavy. The engine was smooth as can be and was very quiet. I could have comfortably ran it without ear protection if I wanted to, even at 26 hp. And with the efi there was no choke to mess with. I was very impressed with the machine..... it just left the grass looking like crap.

So I can't really tell how great the bagging and cut were because the machine left grass and leaves everywhere. It was sort of like mulching I guess.

I have to call the dealer back on Monday to see what's up. I'm going to try to get my hands on a navigator before I decide, I will keep you guys posted.

A-Land
10-18-2008, 06:15 PM
For those of you who have provided input, thanks!

GrassmasterB
10-18-2008, 07:35 PM
Well I used the walker today.......


First lawn........ First pass was fine, second pass I look back at where the first pass was and my first thought is WTF? Grass was cut fine but the machine left leaves all over the lawn. Of course, the machine had no screen in it!!!! I called them back but the gentleman who was working with me wasn't in, and they were going to be closing before I could even get there. I called another local Walker dealer, they were closed already.


So I can't really tell how great the bagging and cut were because the machine left grass and leaves everywhere. It was sort of like mulching I guess.

I have to call the dealer back on Monday to see what's up. I'm going to try to get my hands on a navigator before I decide, I will keep you guys posted.

without the screen, probably about 1/3 of what you cut goes out the backdoor. i take my screen out during the summer when its dry to keep from collecting so much and put it back in when the leaves start falling. you have to try and get the screen before you make your decision because without it you're defeating its purpose.

MysticLandscape
10-18-2008, 07:40 PM
You should of called me, you could of used mine I wasn't mowing today... use your head

A-Land
10-18-2008, 08:20 PM
You should of called me, you could of used mine I wasn't mowing today... use your head

I'm going up to NH to look at a used unit tomorrow and then up to Portland, ME to look at a Nav. Wanna come? lol

I was going to call you but I didn't want to bother you. I told my employee that I was going to call you...... but at that point I just wanted to get the work done with my machine. :drinkup:

I did a clean-up for a lady today. It was a really small yard. Grass must have been 8" high full of leaves. I would have loved to use that walker. I cut it down to 4", then 3". And she tells me that's too high!! I said lady, I can't go any lower. I explained the 1/3 rule..... right over her head. Wanted to turn a meadow full of leaves into Fenway Park in an hour lol. She told me she wanted it short because "it would be the last mowing of the year." I mean do you only mow once a month?? Hellooo???

Tim, you ought to look at the actual unit that I have. MB has it on sale for 8,900 and it has maybe 190 hours on it. If you want to add another walker and save some money.... the 26 EFI is great. It's in great shape, except for the missing screen :hammerhead:. Talk about $8,900 now, or $11,300 list, which goes up 10% next year or 11,300 + 1,130 to $12,430. That's a hell of a savings if you are going to add another Walker.

MysticLandscape
10-19-2008, 01:19 PM
I'm going up to NH to look at a used unit tomorrow and then up to Portland, ME to look at a Nav. Wanna come? lol

I was going to call you but I didn't want to bother you. I told my employee that I was going to call you...... but at that point I just wanted to get the work done with my machine. :drinkup:

I did a clean-up for a lady today. It was a really small yard. Grass must have been 8" high full of leaves. I would have loved to use that walker. I cut it down to 4", then 3". And she tells me that's too high!! I said lady, I can't go any lower. I explained the 1/3 rule..... right over her head. Wanted to turn a meadow full of leaves into Fenway Park in an hour lol. She told me she wanted it short because "it would be the last mowing of the year." I mean do you only mow once a month?? Hellooo???

Tim, you ought to look at the actual unit that I have. MB has it on sale for 8,900 and it has maybe 190 hours on it. If you want to add another walker and save some money.... the 26 EFI is great. It's in great shape, except for the missing screen :hammerhead:. Talk about $8,900 now, or $11,300 list, which goes up 10% next year or 11,300 + 1,130 to $12,430. That's a hell of a savings if you are going to add another Walker.


Why don't you buy it? Don't be scared to call me you clown I would of even let you take my walker for the day to try it out..

A-Land
10-19-2008, 07:36 PM
Why don't you buy it? Don't be scared to call me you clown I would of even let you take my walker for the day to try it out..

Haha thanks for the offer Tim. I just needed to get work done for the day. We ended up working into the darkness so I didn't have time to swap another machine.

The EFI is nice but I don't want to be out 9k before winter. 4 or 5k okay, that's cool. So that leaves me financing.... and I'm exactly 10 days into being 18. I figure I can't get financing, or at least not a fair rate. I don't want to pay 30% financing lol. I'm going to call about that on Monday though.

A-Land
10-19-2008, 07:40 PM
So I ended up taking a peak at a nav and a walker today. It was not a 100% fair comparison because the walker was in nice shape and the nav was a little beat up.

They are so similar that it's going to come down to (Surprise, right?) dealer support. I have a walker dealer that I already work with 10 mins away. And the one that I looked at that was for sale today was in good shape.

I have to clear one unrelated thing up tomorrow... so it should be full speed ahead after that.

N.H.BOY
06-09-2009, 08:39 PM
I know, I know this is an "old" thread, but was wondering what mower he/you ended up with???? Im looking at these two choices in mowers myself.