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View Full Version : How much are you Millionaire LCOs willing to pay for a mower?


coolluv
10-14-2008, 05:29 PM
I was reading on another thread about price increases on mowers for 2009. Exmark is raising the price of the Navigator to $13700. Think about that. Nearly $14000 for a mower. Where does it end. Whats the breaking point for you guys. $20000 $25000. How many $30 lawns do you have to cut to pay for that machine.

It has been mentioned that because of the rising commodity prices due to global demand, that it will cost $2000 more to build that mower. $2000, are kidding me. There is no way in he** its costing Exmark $2000 more to build that mower. And if you believe that then I have a bridge in Brooklyn I will sell to you. Car manufactures did not raise there cars $2000, and they have 1000 times more metal and plastic and everything else in them.

Its simply greed, and with the attitude that some of you LCOs have, its no wonder. Hey, its only money right. $12000 for a ride on blower! Are you kidding me. Look I'm not just busting on Exmark or Hurricane but all mower manufacturers. If people are willing to pay that for a machine, hey more power to them. A fool and his money are soon departed as they say. I would love to see what it actually cost these guys to manufacture that mower.

I don't mind spending good money for a quality product, but come on man, this is getting out of hand. With lawn prices staying stagnant and every hillbilly and illegal Mexican with a mower out there, where does it end.

Let me know what you other guys think. Maybe its just me. Nearly $14000 for a mower in my mind is just amazing.

Dave...

jbannick18
10-14-2008, 05:32 PM
I'd never pay 14,000 for a mower. ever. The most I'm willing to spend on a mower would be 8-8500. But again I'm no millionaire lco ^^

mississippiturf
10-14-2008, 05:50 PM
I'm sure that if they didn't think they could sell them, they would not make them. I don't have enough yards to justify that kind of purchase.

Phil G
10-14-2008, 05:56 PM
I would love to see what it actually cost these guys to manufacture that mower.

Dave...

I would estimate no more than $3500 to produce


atb Phil

hackitdown
10-14-2008, 06:12 PM
It will be fine for companies like Exmark and Hurricane to charge us up the a$$ until a low cost (aka imported) substitute enters the market. Then they will complain that we all buy "cheap" imported cr@p instead of quality American-made.

These prices are exactly the opportunity needed by kubota, kawasaki, honda, or one of the many other quality manufacturers to introduce a low cost alternative, and grab huge market share.

Luvs2Play
10-14-2008, 06:15 PM
Exactly the reason we decided to keep our mowers an extra two years. I hate working on them, but it will work out in the long run.

bob
10-14-2008, 06:23 PM
I'm no millionaire, but I did pay $14.2K for my Gravely 272z turbo diesel in 2003. And $12.5K for my GH in 2004. Most mowers have a suggested retail price thats usually higher than for what they really sell for. You can bargain the price down and sometimes there's a good financing deal that helps out.

Richard Martin
10-14-2008, 06:42 PM
There are a whole lot of commercial riders available for well under $14,000. If you shop around you can still find a 25 HP 60" ZTR for under $8,000. It's also not a new thing for there to be $14,000 plus mowers. Dixie and Walker have been building and selling them for years. If you want the "best" then you'll pay for it. You can't get a new Rolls Royce for $14,000 but you can darn shure pick up a Chevy Cobalt for that.

MTR999
10-14-2008, 06:59 PM
shop used...end of game, plenty plenty of used, quality mowers available, people are in and out of business, as usual as getting in heavy by spring and having exodus by the scorching heat of september or mid august! Who is dumb enough to buy new? mowing grass is recycle business.

Green Pastures
10-14-2008, 07:02 PM
I would imagine that the $13K price you heard of is MSRP. I would never pay full retail or MSRP for a mower.

Have you ever mowed with a Walker or a Navigator? IMHO they give the best finished cut in the business. The stripe is beautiful as well.

My customers (some anyway) are willing to pay more for the better cut and bagging, so you can make up the higher cost of the mower in higher per cut charges.

Also Navigators and Walkers are highly maneuverable and make for very little or no trim cutting at all.

You need to have a place to dump all the clippings you will gather throughout the day though. Fortunately you can pass that cost along to your customer as well.

These mowers cut that well.

They are not big field mowers though.

YardPro
10-14-2008, 07:07 PM
the break point on mower cost is when they become unprofitable to buy and maintain.....

it does not matter how much they cost, is you can make decent returns on them, what does the price matter?????

i think it is a good thing...
it will thin the herd. Those without good business skills will not be able to afford the equipment...

Albery's Lawn & Tractor
10-14-2008, 07:42 PM
Same could be said for trucks. Heck I would rather spend $14K on a mower that will make me money, rather then $40-50K on a truck that will just lose value.

doubleedge
10-14-2008, 08:01 PM
the break point on mower cost is when they become unprofitable to buy and maintain.....

it does not matter how much they cost, is you can make decent returns on them, what does the price matter?????

i think it is a good thing...
it will thin the herd. Those without good business skills will not be able to afford the equipment...

So you are happy that you have to pay rediculous prices for all your new mowers?

doubleedge
10-14-2008, 08:03 PM
Same could be said for trucks. Heck I would rather spend $14K on a mower that will make me money, rather then $40-50K on a truck that will just lose value.

And a truck doesn't make you money? I dont think it would be very profitable to walk everywhere, or drive across town on a mower pulling a wagon with a blower, trimmer, and 21" mower. Well, it may be profitable but your $/hr would be very low.

Green Pastures
10-14-2008, 08:03 PM
Lot's of complaining about mower pricing.

Seems to me if you cannot afford to purchase professional quality equipment necessary to perform your job you must not be charging the customer enough.

:usflag:

Chilehead
10-14-2008, 08:04 PM
My next mower shall be from Better Outdoor Products: $2700.00. Gee, with the money left over, I could buy a new trailer, small outdoor equipment, and a used truck. Wow! An additional mowing rig vs. (1) new mower. Man, what a "tough" decision.

topsites
10-14-2008, 08:07 PM
But again I'm no millionaire lco ^^

Yes I know this problem.

Exactly the reason we decided to keep our mowers an extra two years. I hate working on them, but it will work out in the long run.

Me too, me too.

Heck I would rather spend $14K on a mower that will make me money, rather then $40-50K on a truck that will just lose value.

Unfortunately mowers depreciate too, and just about as fast.

meets1
10-14-2008, 08:09 PM
Alot of complaining is right. Now that gas is a little cheaper - are you buying more gas now?

Used is fine, no problem with it. I will be in the market for 2-3 exmarks next spring and buget accordingly.

You need the lawns/business to justify the price increase but if that is the bread and butter of the operation - any money should be well spent money!

sven1277
10-14-2008, 08:21 PM
I got 8.5 and 6.5 yrs out of my scag tt's before I traded them in for comparable replacements this past spring. Then, they cost $10k and $12k(w/bagger). They were both very dependable. Replacement cost this year was $12k and $14k(w/bagger). Both machines do have bigger engines now. They may be expensive, but when they are built well and are home grown, what do you expect? You get what you pay for, and I got 8.5 years and 2600+ hrs without any major problems.

Albery's Lawn & Tractor
10-14-2008, 08:24 PM
And a truck doesn't make you money? I dont think it would be very profitable to walk everywhere, or drive across town on a mower pulling a wagon with a blower, trimmer, and 21" mower. Well, it may be profitable but your $/hr would be very low.

You don't make anymore money by driving a new truck over a 10 yr old truck. Having a brand new diesel pulling a lawn trailer is a waste. Its just for guys with ego's to feed.

kartracer2000
10-14-2008, 08:43 PM
Like someone else said, buy used. You can usually find one that's only a year old by someone getting out of the biz for two thirds the price of new. Sometimes less if they are really desperate.

jrush
10-14-2008, 08:48 PM
I was looking for a new dump this year, I happened to run into an established lco who had a damn beautiful truck, he gave me some good advice, "when your big enough that you need to spend the money for tax purposes, get the truck with all the bells and whistles, if your not big enough than your working for your truck, your trucks not working for you." So I did'nt get that F550 I wanted, I got a used dump paid cash, and it works for me. I did spend the $11k on the Scag,(with collection system) but that made me more this year than a new dump. Still I would'nt spend $13-14k on a damn mower. I see guys around here haulin 48" mowers with a damn Kodiac! That just does'nt make sense to me!

punt66
10-14-2008, 08:52 PM
They have to cover their costs and profits on these machines. You people cant campare the mass production of cars to commercial mowers. Cars profit by numbers. These manufatures have to tool up for each build and that costs serious money. They cant make that all back in numbers, instead they have to pass it along to us.

delphied
10-14-2008, 09:04 PM
These manufatures have to tool up for each build and that costs serious money. They cant make that all back in numbers, instead they have to pass it along to us.

That sounds good but an Exmark Navigator hasnt changed much in many years. No major changes means very little tooling changes. times are changing and like every business in this country, prices will be going down or the company will perish or both.

puppypaws
10-14-2008, 11:57 PM
the break point on mower cost is when they become unprofitable to buy and maintain.....

it does not matter how much they cost, is you can make decent returns on them, what does the price matter?????

i think it is a good thing...
it will thin the herd. Those without good business skills will not be able to afford the equipment...

You are 100% correct, the worth of something is what a man is willing to pay. It makes no difference if a mower cost $50,000.00 when it can pay for itself and generate profit for the person that bought it.

It is the same thing I told my wife one day when she wrote a check for $3,000,000.00. I ask her what the company took in from the job, and she said $12,000,000.00, I said it is all relevant; just more zeros than most people have to write.

jbannick18
10-15-2008, 12:07 AM
You are 100% correct, the worth of something is what a man is willing to pay. It makes no difference if a mower cost $50,000.00 when it can pay for itself and generate profit for the person that bought it.

It is the same thing I told my wife one day when she wrote a check for $3,000,000.00. I ask her what the company took in from the job, and she said $12,000,000.00, I said it is all relevant; just more zeros than most people have to write.

Can she write me a check for 3,000,000? :p

coolluv
10-15-2008, 05:14 AM
Well I guess from the most of the responses you guys don't mind getting screwed.

Dave...

LushGreenLawn
10-15-2008, 05:54 AM
Is that blower really 12K? If thats the case then anyone who even considers buying that thing needs to have their head examined!

punt66
10-15-2008, 06:02 AM
Well I guess from the most of the responses you guys don't mind getting screwed.

Dave...

But you would pay $40,000 for a pick up and be ok with it? And a $8000 mower that makes the larger percent of people's income is somehow a problem?

puppypaws
10-15-2008, 07:18 AM
But you would pay $40,000 for a pick up and be ok with it? And a $8000 mower that makes the larger percent of people's income is somehow a problem?

That is the point, if it pays for itself and makes you money cost is no factor.

dishboy
10-15-2008, 10:00 AM
That is the point, if it pays for itself and makes you money cost is no factor.

Cost is ALWAYS a factor unless you enjoy working just to pay a bill. I like profit.

Green Finger
10-15-2008, 10:09 AM
Very interesting thread.

Some of you guys need you develop or tweek your business practices. Develop a business model that works for you. Not your ego.

Some will build with credit and debt and others will build through experience and past failures.

You don't know how good your shocks are until you hit a bump in the road.

Position yourself to take that bump in the road. Without loosing everything.

punt66
10-15-2008, 01:01 PM
Very interesting thread.

Some of you guys need you develop or tweek your business practices. Develop a business model that works for you. Not your ego.

Some will build with credit and debt and others will build through experience and past failures.

You don't know how good your shocks are until you hit a bump in the road.

Position yourself to take that bump in the road. Without loosing everything.

Everything on my end is paid for except my new pickup. Its all paid for because it earns. You wont find me running old clunky junk. My main machine will get replaced evry 3 years to the best bidder. Its amazing how much people will pay for a used mower.

LushGreenLawn
10-15-2008, 03:09 PM
But you would pay $40,000 for a pick up and be ok with it? And a $8000 mower that makes the larger percent of people's income is somehow a problem?

I would pay what I had to as long as there was no alternative, but I would not go as far as to say I'd be happy about it. Now, if only a handful of companies raised their prices, and there were still some (Good) brands left that were priced reasonably, thats where I would look. $8000 is not a bad price for a ZTR by the way, But 14K? It costs no more to make a navigator or walker than it does any other ZTR, they are smaller so it probrably actually costs less.

punt66
10-15-2008, 04:08 PM
I would pay what I had to as long as there was no alternative, but I would not go as far as to say I'd be happy about it. Now, if only a handful of companies raised their prices, and there were still some (Good) brands left that were priced reasonably, thats where I would look. $8000 is not a bad price for a ZTR by the way, But 14K? It costs no more to make a navigator or walker than it does any other ZTR, they are smaller so it probrably actually costs less.

Nobody is happy to spend more money than they have to. When i first started i was shocked at the prices of those machines like many of you are. Then i took out the calculator and figured the cost/benefit of the machines. When you figure it only takes 1 account to pay the payment of low or no interest many companys offer its a no brainer. I bill out in one month more than a new machine costs. Then there is the resell. After a few years the machines hold alot of their value. I see them selling on ebay for amazingly high numbers. So the actual cost to have the machines are low compared to the return. Even if the machine was $14,000. I stick with the smaller machines and my favorite is the ferris1500 52" deck 25hp kawi or the Briggs 30 big block. Tons of power, runs the bagger with great power, has a big enough deck for my market and a small footprint on the trailer and the properties. The machine only costs $6700 new. The only problem i have had are flat tires! 62 weekly cuts.

coolluv
10-15-2008, 04:22 PM
Cost is ALWAYS a factor unless you enjoy working just to pay a bill. I like profit.

Yeah, I don't understand this logic that it doesn't matter how much it cost because it makes you money. I do understand that there is a cost of doing business, but doesn't it make sense to keep those cost to a bare minimum to maximize your profit.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I would rather make more profit, than service debt. I understand that the machine will make you money, but how many hours are you going to have to work to pay for that machine. The higher the cost the more you have to work to pay for it . So why would that not matter. The lower the cost the quicker you are making money and not servicing debt.

Seems simple to me. Maybe you guys like to work for nothing. I don't need the practice.

Dave....

coolluv
10-15-2008, 04:48 PM
Lot's of complaining about mower pricing.

Seems to me if you cannot afford to purchase professional quality equipment necessary to perform your job you must not be charging the customer enough.

:usflag:

The local market sets the price. Not you. Sure you can charge a little more or a little less than the going rate, but get outside the going rate and you will be sitting home looking at that expensive mower. At some point if the cost of doing business keeps rising, but the price customers are willing to pay stays the same, it makes creating and keeping a profitable business impossible.

Make sense.

Dave...

coolluv
10-15-2008, 05:09 PM
You are 100% correct, the worth of something is what a man is willing to pay. It makes no difference if a mower cost $50,000.00 when it can pay for itself and generate profit for the person that bought it.

It is the same thing I told my wife one day when she wrote a check for $3,000,000.00. I ask her what the company took in from the job, and she said $12,000,000.00, I said it is all relevant; just more zeros than most people have to write.

It makes a hell of alot of difference. If a mower cost $500000 and it wears out before it is paid for then whats the point. I understand that once its paid for it will make you more money. But as the price rises on the equipment and the purpose or market that the machine is created for stays the same, why would that not matter.

Your cost keep going up, but your profit stays the same. What am I missing. Please explain to me how it is beneficial to you to have your cost of doing business rise as your profits stay the same. Did your profits go down when gas prices were higher? According to your logic, paying your employees $50 an hour vs $10 hour doesn't matter because they are making you money.

I'm confused, please enlighten me.

Dave...

JB1
10-15-2008, 05:12 PM
Sounds like class envy is alive and well here.

coolluv
10-15-2008, 05:20 PM
Sounds like class envy is alive and well here.

I don't get it. Fill me in.

Dave...

Runner
10-15-2008, 05:36 PM
Envy is a member that would do "online classes" as we called them. Great member, and everyone had fun. His saying was always "Class is in session." :)

brucec32
10-17-2008, 12:50 PM
I was reading on another thread about price increases on mowers for 2009. Exmark is raising the price of the Navigator to $13700. Think about that. Nearly $14000 for a mower. Where does it end. Whats the breaking point for you guys. $20000 $25000. How many $30 lawns do you have to cut to pay for that machine.

It has been mentioned that because of the rising commodity prices due to global demand, that it will cost $2000 more to build that mower. $2000, are kidding me. There is no way in he** its costing Exmark $2000 more to build that mower. And if you believe that then I have a bridge in Brooklyn I will sell to you. Car manufactures did not raise there cars $2000, and they have 1000 times more metal and plastic and everything else in them.

Its simply greed, and with the attitude that some of you LCOs have, its no wonder. Hey, its only money right. $12000 for a ride on blower! Are you kidding me. Look I'm not just busting on Exmark or Hurricane but all mower manufacturers. If people are willing to pay that for a machine, hey more power to them. A fool and his money are soon departed as they say. I would love to see what it actually cost these guys to manufacture that mower.

I don't mind spending good money for a quality product, but come on man, this is getting out of hand. With lawn prices staying stagnant and every hillbilly and illegal Mexican with a mower out there, where does it end.

Let me know what you other guys think. Maybe its just me. Nearly $14000 for a mower in my mind is just amazing.

Dave...

I agree $14,000 is a lot for a mower. But I would suggest that you consider this is a low production volume machine, meaning the engineering and other associated overhead costs have to be spread over fewer units. A Bentley costs more for similar reasons. It's better, but not that much better.

As for it being worth the money, I have no idea. It would not for me. But for someone with a crew who is bagging constantly, day in, day out, it well could be a profitable purchase. If their alternative is side baggers the labor would be much more expensive with cheaper machines. Rear mounted vac/baggers I don't know about, but the Navigator seems more compact and able to go in more places.

Up until a couple months back when prices crashed due to slowing world demand $2000 would have been a pretty reasonable price increase if you compared it to steel and other commodity prices that had risen much more than that in the previous year. Accountants have their methods, and staying one step ahead of inflation in pricing is how you survive in business.

As for it being simply greed, I'm curious about something. If they can charge $2,000 more simply out of "greed", then why were they charging $2,000 less before? Were they less greedy then than now?

It probably costs Bill Gates a couple of bucks to produce an extra copy of a software program that sells for $400. So that illustrates that there is a lot more to pricing that what it costs a manufacturer to spit out another unit. The first Navigator produced costs a lot more than the last one, for sure.

But the price is what the market will bear. That's a free market economy for you. It's not perfect but it's the best method so far of allocating scares goods and services. How much does it "cost" you to mow a customer's lawn? I bet a lot less than you charge them for it. The difference is called "profit" and that is why these companies take risks and make these great machines for us. If they were guaranteed nothing more than "cost plus 10%" we'd probably still be mowing with very simple machines.

I would not buy that machine at $14,000. If someone makes a similar model and sells it for $12,000 they will get the sales and Exmark will sell too few units to make it profitable. That is how it goes. The market is composed of millions of individuals making decisions. If the price is too high, buy an alternative.

brucec32
10-17-2008, 12:51 PM
I would estimate no more than $3500 to produce


atb Phil

Well, seeing as the engine and hydros alone cost roughly that, I'm curious what you think things like labor, wiring, overhead, steel, etc are going for these days?

Frontier-Lawn
10-17-2008, 12:54 PM
I'd never pay 14,000 for a mower. ever. The most I'm willing to spend on a mower would be 8-8500. But again I'm no millionaire lco ^^

only if it was a walker payup

Frontier-Lawn
10-17-2008, 12:58 PM
I'm no millionaire, but I did pay $14.2K for my Gravely 272z turbo diesel in 2003. And $12.5K for my GH in 2004. Most mowers have a suggested retail price thats usually higher than for what they really sell for. You can bargain the price down and sometimes there's a good financing deal that helps out.

diesel is worth the $ i think gas heck no

logical
10-17-2008, 01:38 PM
I would estimate no more than $3500 to produce


atb Phil

I estimate you are off by about 150%

coolluv
10-17-2008, 02:19 PM
I agree $14,000 is a lot for a mower. But I would suggest that you consider this is a low production volume machine, meaning the engineering and other associated overhead costs have to be spread over fewer units. A Bentley costs more for similar reasons. It's better, but not that much better.

As for it being worth the money, I have no idea. It would not for me. But for someone with a crew who is bagging constantly, day in, day out, it well could be a profitable purchase. If their alternative is side baggers the labor would be much more expensive with cheaper machines. Rear mounted vac/baggers I don't know about, but the Navigator seems more compact and able to go in more places.

Up until a couple months back when prices crashed due to slowing world demand $2000 would have been a pretty reasonable price increase if you compared it to steel and other commodity prices that had risen much more than that in the previous year. Accountants have their methods, and staying one step ahead of inflation in pricing is how you survive in business.

As for it being simply greed, I'm curious about something. If they can charge $2,000 more simply out of "greed", then why were they charging $2,000 less before? Were they less greedy then than now?

It probably costs Bill Gates a couple of bucks to produce an extra copy of a software program that sells for $400. So that illustrates that there is a lot more to pricing that what it costs a manufacturer to spit out another unit. The first Navigator produced costs a lot more than the last one, for sure.

But the price is what the market will bear. That's a free market economy for you. It's not perfect but it's the best method so far of allocating scares goods and services. How much does it "cost" you to mow a customer's lawn? I bet a lot less than you charge them for it. The difference is called "profit" and that is why these companies take risks and make these great machines for us. If they were guaranteed nothing more than "cost plus 10%" we'd probably still be mowing with very simple machines.

I would not buy that machine at $14,000. If someone makes a similar model and sells it for $12,000 they will get the sales and Exmark will sell too few units to make it profitable. That is how it goes. The market is composed of millions of individuals making decisions. If the price is too high, buy an alternative.

I'm not saying that the price of commodities did not increase, therefore driving up the cost to produce the same mower. I'm saying that I find it hard to believe that the rising commodity cost forced them to raise the price by $2000. But with higher commodity prices it can be used as an excuse to inflate the price, much higher than what the rise in commodities has actually raised the price to produce that particular machine.

If it actually cost $500 more to produce the same machine, and you raise the machines price by $2000, and then say hey don't blame me, commodity prices forced us to raise prices. Like I said I doubt a $2000 price increase was all about the rise in commodities.

Dave...

NINER
10-17-2008, 03:05 PM
I was told scag TT is going to be in $11,000.00 + range mower only.

DaughtryLC
10-17-2008, 03:24 PM
Thats why I run my stuff until it is NO good to anyone! You know run it until the wheels fall OFF!!

LushGreenLawn
10-17-2008, 03:38 PM
Well, seeing as the engine and hydros alone cost roughly that, I'm curious what you think things like labor, wiring, overhead, steel, etc are going for these days?

The hydros and Engine may cost us that, but do you think that Exmark, Toro, Deere, ect pay that? They pay alot less than that!

I used to work in a manufacturing plant, granted, it wasn't mowers, but you would be suprised at how little raw materiels cost when purchased by the sea container.

CleanCutProLawn
10-18-2008, 10:07 AM
I have no problem with what margin the manufacturers are making on the mowers. Where do you think they get the money for R&D for that next design change. You want to see some prices that will make you fill your shorts go check out golf course equipment, our WAM are extrememly expensive. Our Jac 9016 which is 16' cut with a 90hp diesel is retails for about $82,000 and if I remember correctly the 5111 is roughly $40,000. A triplex greens mower is about 19,000 and a fairway mower is around 34,000. The golf course management runs three courses in town so we lease all of our mowers for about 250,000 a year. Two things to remember though is our mowing season here is from late april to early november and all this is for golfers that are paying on average of $23 dollars for 18 holes of golf.

Frontier-Lawn
10-18-2008, 10:16 AM
I have no problem with what margin the manufacturers are making on the mowers. Where do you think they get the money for R&D for that next design change. You want to see some prices that will make you fill your shorts go check out golf course equipment, our WAM are extrememly expensive. Our Jac 9016 which is 16' cut with a 90hp diesel is retails for about $82,000 and if I remember correctly the 5111 is roughly $40,000. A triplex greens mower is about 19,000 and a fairway mower is around 34,000. The golf course management runs three courses in town so we lease all of our mowers for about 250,000 a year. Two things to remember though is our mowing season here is from late april to early november and all this is for golfers that are paying on average of $23 dollars for 18 holes of golf.

so you have no prob paying $400 per pill for medicine

CleanCutProLawn
10-18-2008, 10:23 AM
depends on the pill

johndeereguy
10-19-2008, 09:10 AM
I guess its all how you look at things and what work you have to pay for a machine. I will be buying 3 new Deere 997 diesels at about $13000 this winter. I have 1100 hours on the ones I have that are 2 years old now. They are wore out. I just charge accordingly. There is no way I would keep them another year and put parts on em. I can trade em and not have any repair bill for two years plus the down time just kills a guy in a business like ours.

LushGreenLawn
10-19-2008, 09:21 AM
I guess its all how you look at things and what work you have to pay for a machine. I will be buying 3 new Deere 997 diesels at about $13000 this winter. I have 1100 hours on the ones I have that are 2 years old now. They are wore out. I just charge accordingly. There is no way I would keep them another year and put parts on em. I can trade em and not have any repair bill for two years plus the down time just kills a guy in a business like ours.

After 1100 hours you have worn out a Diesel 997? I have seen these in good condition with almost 10,000 hours on them. The engine will certainly last that long. You need to hire someone to run your machine that dosen't beat it up! Unless you meant 11,000 hours?

puppypaws
10-19-2008, 01:44 PM
After 1100 hours you have worn out a Diesel 997? I have seen these in good condition with almost 10,000 hours on them. The engine will certainly last that long. You need to hire someone to run your machine that dosen't beat it up! Unless you meant 11,000 hours?

I know he doesn't mean 11,000 hrs. in 2 yrs. so I wonder what is actually worn out?

Richard Martin
10-19-2008, 02:11 PM
I will be buying 3 new Deere 997 diesels at about $13000 this winter. I have 1100 hours on the ones I have that are 2 years old now. They are wore out. I just charge accordingly.

You need better mowers. Seriously.

meets1
10-19-2008, 05:48 PM
I know he is talking diesels and I run all gas but after about 2 yrs as well I am putting 1200-1500 hours on a Z and I also trade. Warrenty is off and this alone my toro's would of cost me 5-6K easiliy in repair and shop labor this year. I need different mowers - well I am getting at least 2 new exmarks for 09 but I have had hydros out, electric clutch out, spindles, a bunch of small stuff. Next yr I am not writing a check to the shop for who knows what in repairs. Warrenty is by by this fall.

Yes, 10 - 12 - 15K is alot for a Z but I in regards to downtime - even running 4 z's - still cost me dearly. Charge what ya can.

STIHL GUY
10-19-2008, 08:50 PM
thats why i bought a used mower. I dont have enough accounts to justify a brand new ZTR

freddyc
10-19-2008, 09:45 PM
I bought a very used 36" toro walk behind for $450. replaced the clutch switch, and a front wheel bearing. Used it 3 times a week for 2 years without problems. Havent changed a belt yet --just oil gas and grease and a new gas filter-- and sharpen the blades. Still runs like a champ-- 2 pulls everytime. Never a problem. Hard to beat that payback.

Paid $2500 for a 44" hydro walk behind with trac vac. Has 270 hrs on it. Purrs like a kitten. I expect to use it for several years.

Not sure what I'd pay for a ztr but $14,000 is a lot of lawns till pay off. I see fairly new stuff for sale all the time---guys going out of business. Seems like if its really low hr stuff then maybe it pays off in the long run to get used. Whats the drop in value of a ztr after one season? I cant imagine paying $13,000 for a used one.

puppypaws
10-19-2008, 10:09 PM
I bought a very used 36" toro walk behind for $450. replaced the clutch switch, and a front wheel bearing. Used it 3 times a week for 2 years without problems. Havent changed a belt yet --just oil gas and grease and a new gas filter-- and sharpen the blades. Still runs like a champ-- 2 pulls everytime. Never a problem. Hard to beat that payback.

Paid $2500 for a 44" hydro walk behind with trac vac. Has 270 hrs on it. Purrs like a kitten. I expect to use it for several years.

Not sure what I'd pay for a ztr but $14,000 is a lot of lawns till pay off. I see fairly new stuff for sale all the time---guys going out of business. Seems like if its really low hr stuff then maybe it pays off in the long run to get used. Whats the drop in value of a ztr after one season? I cant imagine paying $13,000 for a used one.

You can't beat that type payback but a number of times it will not work out that way. You can buy used equipment that will dollar you to death, and it is not only money spent on parts and repairs it is valuable time lost.

It also depends on how much work you need to accomplish and in what time frame. When you have an excessive amount of work you need the best equipment available, then you only do regular maintenance and should not need to worry about time consuming breakdowns.

I know he is talking diesels and I run all gas but after about 2 yrs as well I am putting 1200-1500 hours on a Z and I also trade. Warrenty is off and this alone my toro's would of cost me 5-6K easiliy in repair and shop labor this year. I need different mowers - well I am getting at least 2 new exmarks for 09 but I have had hydros out, electric clutch out, spindles, a bunch of small stuff. Next yr I am not writing a check to the shop for who knows what in repairs. Warrenty is by by this fall.

Yes, 10 - 12 - 15K is alot for a Z but I in regards to downtime - even running 4 z's - still cost me dearly. Charge what ya can.

Smart business sense!

nosparkplugs
10-19-2008, 10:14 PM
I just spent over 12K for a BB AOS 35HP cat diesel 72" deck, the time to purchase is right now before the new price increases hit across the board. I'm not rich, so to say your rich when you spend 13 to 15K for a ZTR is just incorrect. I use our large ZTR's on commercial accounts, not 30$ yards:laugh:

nosparkplugs
10-19-2008, 10:42 PM
I guess its all how you look at things and what work you have to pay for a machine. I will be buying 3 new Deere 997 diesels at about $13000 this winter. I have 1100 hours on the ones I have that are 2 years old now. They are wore out. I just charge accordingly. There is no way I would keep them another year and put parts on em. I can trade em and not have any repair bill for two years plus the down time just kills a guy in a business like ours.

wow, your comfortable with it, I would expect more hours of use out of a JD 997. I have an poor little:laugh: 02 JD f-680 60" 7-Iron, and minus a engine replacement at 750hr the entire rest of the mower has been trouble free from 8 years.

What yah wearing out on your 997, I was close to purchasing one about 3 months ago. Our dealer wanted around 13K, did not include rear engine hood guard, suspension seat or tax.

JKOOPERS
10-21-2008, 12:27 AM
what about all the time and money they put into the machines in design, engineering and marketing that all cost money right?