Kawasaki engine problems (29 hp EFI) continue

[MikeSp]

This Toro ZMaster 589 with the 29 hp water-cooled and electronic fuel injected Kawasaki engine was new last summer and ran GREAT. After Missouri started requiring at least 10% ethanol blended gasoline the first of this year, this engine has had nothing but problems. With 52 hours on it at the first mowing this year, the engine would lose power and die after 40 minutes of mowing -- usually with the fuel filter empty. My local dealership changed ownership and the new owner does not believe in giving priority to warranty work or commercial machines and a 3+ week wait was a major issue. Eventually I found a Toro "Master Service Center" that was happy to take on the issue and between them, Toro and Kawasaki, they decided it was vaporlock and removed the Toro fuel pump and replaced it with a Kawasaki fuel pump. This cured the vaporlock and the mower ran fine for another month. Then it started acting up again -- after 30-40 minutes of normal mowing, the engine severely cuts out under load but idles great and there is fuel in the fuel filter. Sometimes it backfires when it is cutting out. It is now spending more time at the service center than with me. The gentleman that owns the master service center is oustanding and has been a blessing--especially considering that I did not buy it from him, but is limited to what he can obtain from Toro and Kawasaki in the way of a fix. (I have drained both tanks and used different fuel to no avail.) There is 80 hours on the mower now.

The warranty runs out next May 1st and I have yet to do the last mowing or two of my yard this year, which looks more like a pasture now and I usually pride myself in my 3 acre yard.

Anyone have any suggestions as to the cure OR IF Toro and Kawasaki cannot come up with a cure before the warranty runs out after attempting to mow next spring -- what are my options for this $10,000 mower that refuses to mow longer than 40 minutes at a time? (In good conscience, I cannot trade this mower that looks brand new, off on a different brand knowing that the next owner will have engine issues and no warranty).

VERY frustrated here :cry:

Mike

[Daneman]

try a new fuel filter, and make sure you are using NGK plugs, not Champions. NGK plugs burn hotter, and it is needed, especially on liquid cooled motors. I would also check your muffler, make sure the baffles haven't goten screwed up inside. Does it audibly make a different sound that when you first got it?

[MikeSp]

try a new fuel filter, and make sure you are using NGK plugs, not Champions. NGK plugs burn hotter, and it is needed, especially on liquid cooled motors. I would also check your muffler, make sure the baffles haven't goten screwed up inside. Does it audibly make a different sound that when you first got it?

No audible sound difference froom 0 to 82 hours of use. I am going to change sparkplugs and fuel filter as you suggest. I have mowed twice with it, including my 3 acres of very tall and wet grass and it never missed a beat. Thus, the problem is intermittant.

There is another possibility that was raised with a recent article in the Kansas City Star newspaper -- that the amount of ethanol in motorgrade fuels has been shown to vary from 10-30% even though it is supposed to be 10% and I am wondering IF higher percentages of ethanol might be the culprit.

Toro and Kawasaki don't seem to be as concerned as do I.

Mike

[cattleman]

Mike, I experienced the same problem with my Cub Cadet M60 Tank with the Kawasaki 29 hp injected engine. I appreciate your effort and post but I also feel your frustration. If dumb looks would cure the problem I'd be glad to post a solution.
My mower started shutting off as you describe last fall when I was mulching leaves. After servicing it during the winter I started my first mowing. I checked my watch and 42 minutes later it shut down. If I release the zero turn handles it will catch up but repeat the shutting down again a few minutes later even in light grass. I noticed it seemed to be triggered a couple times when I spun the zero turn around so I tried to make it shut down by spinning back and forth with no success.
The second mowing was much the same only this time it was just over 30 minutes until it was shutting down. It seems a lot like it is running out of gas but I jumped off and checked the in-line filter and there was gas in it.
After brainstorming with the local Cub Cadet dealer, he didn't think it would be the fuel pump and thought it might be the coil going bad :confused:
There are a few gas stations in our area that claim there is no ethanol in their diesel fuel; Citgo for one. I'll ask about their gas and try to find some with no ethanol to check the vapor lock theory.

Jim

[lawns Etc]

There are alot of coil issues with this motor I had several replaced on my Deere 797 when I had it 200 Hrs and 3 coils it was time to get rid of it.

[4.3mudder]

Usually if a coil is going out it will do it when it is hot, after 20 minutes or so, maybe longer. But, you can't get it to start until it is either cooled off or has cooled down. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that might be a problem. This was on a ladys rding mower I worked on for her. After 20 minutes of running it would start stuttering and surging, then die, bring it in, no spark. New coil, problem solved. That was on a 15 horse Kohler though.

[cattleman]

There are alot of coil issues with this motor I had several replaced on my Deere 797 when I had it 200 Hrs and 3 coils it was time to get rid of it.

Thanks for the quick response guys. To Lawns Etc., what were the symptoms when the coil(s) failed on your JD 797? My experence with coil failure is limited to cars that had coils. When one failed on my car then it was dead, kaput, and call someone to come get you.

[MikeSp]

With the help of a Master Toro Service Center and the wonderful gentleman owner who picked up my ZMaster and returned it several times without a pickup and delivery charge (60 mile round trip each time) thinks that it is repaired. What was found was after replacing the Toro fuel pump that would vaporlock with alcohol fuel, that the Kawasaki fuel pump was putting out too much pressure and the sparkplugs would be covered with soot after running an hour -- the cure was to turn a screw on the carb to reduce the fuel pressure to ~26 psi (forget the range permitted by the specs) while measuring the pressure with a temporarily-installed inline gauge.

Will it correctly work -- probably until May when the warranty expires and it is paid off...

It looked like it was going to get a workout next week but a record snowfall is expected tomorrow, so that will postpone giving it a real workout to find out if it really was fixed.

MikeSp

[cattleman]

Thanks and Fantastic, I will try the same cure.

Do you happen to have any information to identify which Kawasaki fuel pump was used? We are mowing 6 acres minus House and out buildings and are about to get into the heaviest mowing season. I don't want the hassle.

[MikeSp]

Thanks and Fantastic, I will try the same cure.

Do you happen to have any information to identify which Kawasaki fuel pump was used? We are mowing 6 acres minus House and out buildings and are about to get into the heaviest mowing season. I don't want the hassle.

Because of the location of the fuel pump and my aging eyeballs, I cannot guarantee that this is the P/N but it appears to be SB7003.

Sure cannot blame you for wanting to avoid a mowing season of hassles -- I NEVER want to go through 8 months of such hassles again and will buy Kubota next time (my experience with that brand of compact diesel tractor has been outstanding!!)

Curses to alcohol fuels and the legislators that force them upon us to be used on equipment not designed for their use!!!!!

MikeSp

[topsites]

Thanks for the quick response guys. To Lawns Etc., what were the symptoms when the coil(s) failed on your JD 797? My experence with coil failure is limited to cars that had coils. When one failed on my car then it was dead, kaput, and call someone to come get you.

Some coils can and do fail as they get hot, cars sometimes do it, too.

To 'test' a coil, and this one isn't for sure, but remove it and shake it...
If there's a sloshing sound inside, it's definitely bad.

Another easy way is to replace it, then if the problem persists you have a spare coil.
And you'll need the coil sooner or later anyhow.

So, replace the coil, eliminate this out of the list of possibles.

[cattleman]

good news- bad news
The good news - I checked my fuel pump and I have the correct fuel pump on my mower. The bad news - I still have the problem. After the 40 minute period and the engine starts to falter, I can reproduce the problem by a high speed turn to the right sometimes to the left.
I may pursue the coil suggestion. How much trouble is it to get to the coil.

I have checked the safety switches to make sure one of them isn't shutting off for an instant.
I also found a loose hose clamp on the fuel line where it goes into the throttle body. I've not mowed with it since finding the loose clamp.

[MikeSp]

good news- bad news
The good news - I checked my fuel pump and I have the correct fuel pump on my mower. The bad news - I still have the problem. After the 40 minute period and the engine starts to falter, I can reproduce the problem by a high speed turn to the right sometimes to the left.
I may pursue the coil suggestion. How much trouble is it to get to the coil.

I have checked the safety switches to make sure one of them isn't shutting off for an instant.
I also found a loose hose clamp on the fuel line where it goes into the throttle body. I've not mowed with it since finding the loose clamp.

While it could be the coil, it could also be the fuel pump putting out too much pressure into the throttle body -- have you pulled the plugs to see if they are sooted up? Good luck.

MikeSp

[cattleman]

Finally - after confirming the correct Kawasaki fuel pump, NGK plugs looked good, vrnys on tank caps were open, checked computer and found no codes, coil checked OK the dealer suggested changing the fuel filter. It looked relatively new and you could see the fuel circulating when the fuel pump came on.
The filter for the fuel injected engine is different from a standard in line filter. The dealer said that the fuel filter was the correct filter. There might have been a defect in the filter.
I have mowed twice for over two hours each time with no problem. Hopefully the $16.00 filter fixed the problem.

[MikeSp]

Some coils can and do fail as they get hot, cars sometimes do it, too.

To 'test' a coil, and this one isn't for sure, but remove it and shake it...
If there's a sloshing sound inside, it's definitely bad.

Another easy way is to replace it, then if the problem persists you have a spare coil.
And you'll need the coil sooner or later anyhow.

So, replace the coil, eliminate this out of the list of possibles.

Car coils, of the type that I remember, contained oil but the coils on the Kaw 29EFI engine are of the traditional magneto type without oil -- they are a few thousandths from the flywheel. After spending half of the mowing season last year in the shop and the mower was tested thoroughly on the dealer's 5 acres on a warm day in December and worked fine, with new fuel and fresh oil and 102 hours on it, it could not make it once around my 3 acre yard yesterday on its first mowing of the season due to loss of power, cutting out and backfiring. I immediately trailered it to a nearby dealer who felt it was bad coils. This nightmare is never going to end -- IF I ever get another riding mower, it will be a Kubota diesel after I sue Toro :realmad:.

MikeSp

[cattleman]

Looks like my problem was the fuel filter. I've mowed 10+ hours without my engine giving any signs of trouble.

I do understand the diesel. I drive a Ford F-250 Lariat 4x4 diesel truck and have two diesel farm tractors. If I were to buy a new mower it would be diesel.

[MikeSp]

With the help of a Master Toro Service Center and the wonderful gentleman owner who picked up my ZMaster and returned it several times without a pickup and delivery charge (60 mile round trip each time) thinks that it is repaired. What was found was after replacing the Toro fuel pump that would vaporlock with alcohol fuel, that the Kawasaki fuel pump was putting out too much pressure and the sparkplugs would be covered with soot after running an hour -- the cure was to turn a screw on the carb to reduce the fuel pressure to ~26 psi (forget the range permitted by the specs) while measuring the pressure with a temporarily-installed inline gauge.

Will it correctly work -- probably until May when the warranty expires and it is paid off...

It looked like it was going to get a workout next week but a record snowfall is expected tomorrow, so that will postpone giving it a real workout to find out if it really was fixed.

MikeSp

With the first mowing of the season, the Toro Z-Master 589 did NOT make it one trip around my 3 acre yard and started missing out, backfiring and sounding like it had a full roller cam in it. I immediately trailered it to a dealer 3 miles away and he thought it was the coil(s) and ordered two. Two weeks later, Kawasaki dealer support indicated it could not be the coils and they felt it was the fuel system. The dealer added an external fuel tank and it ran great, so he emptied 10 gallons of fresh fuel from the tanks and flushed them out, put in fresh fuel and it was back to the same problem. Two new fuel pumps and a new tank selector valve and filter and plugs... This makes a FULL 12 MONTH of failures with this Kawasaki 29 hp water-cooled engine and 100 hours in two mowing seasons -- the first mowing season (before alcohol gasoline) was perfect. The warranty expires in two weeks and the mower has been out of service nearly all of the last 12 months!:realmad:

The local dealer is trying, but does anyone have any suggestions as to getting a replacement from Toro or what to do in order to get a mower that works -- my yard is damaged from thatch from last year and at 8 inches of height and lots of rain, I am looking at more lawn damage this year and no sign of the mower getting fixed -- what would any of you do at this point since there are no lawnmower lemon laws???

MikeSp

[MowerMedic77]

The dealer added an external fuel tank and it ran great

How long/how many gallons did the dealer run this unit with the external tank?

[MikeSp]

How long/how many gallons did the dealer run this unit with the external tank?

As I understand it, he ran a couple of gallons through this unit.

MikeSp

[MowerMedic77]

Just trying to wrap my head around this so just a few more questions. The original tank set up will not run "great" though the equivalent amount of fuel? I would think if you get the unit to run for extended periods of time using an external tank I would concentrate on this and see how long and how many gallons this unit could "work" not just run with that setup. If you can show that the mower runs without issue then I would press TORO as it would prove that its their issue and not the engine manufacture.

[MikeSp]

Just trying to wrap my head around this so just a few more questions. The original tank set up will not run "great" though the equivalent amount of fuel? I would think if you get the unit to run for extended periods of time using an external tank I would concentrate on this and see how long and how many gallons this unit could "work" not just run with that setup. If you can show that the mower runs without issue then I would press TORO as it would prove that its their issue and not the engine manufacture.

I believe that is what the dealer is attempting to do and avoid the fingerpointing that is likely to occur between Toro and Kawasaki.

I got the mower back from the other service center in January and used Stabil in the fuel and ran it for 30 minutes alternating tanks every other week until it came time to mow in March. This other service center (former Toro Master service center) owner even took it home and mowed his 5 acres on a warm day in December and it ran fine -- pulled the plugs and they had not sooted up. It may be a coincidence, but all of the problems started when Missouri law forced all motorgrade gasolines to contain at least 10% ethanol.

MikeSp

[MowerMedic77]

Easy enough to test and see what percentages you are "really" getting in your area. Here is a link to a video that shows the simple test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsSQSuCiUjE

You can make your own test container out of any clean clear glass container that seals closed.

[MikeSp]

Easy enough to test and see what percentages you are "really" getting in your area. Here is a link to a video that shows the simple test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsSQSuCiUjE

You can make your own test container out of any clean clear glass container that seals closed.

Yep--been there and done that and the top tier gasoline that I use shows 8-10% ethanol. I have never had any problems with diesel engines from JD and Kubota -- knew that I should have purchased a diesel ZTR...

MikeSp

[viper00085]

damn, someone at the dealership needs to at least dial in and settle with a diagnosis if its a lean or a rich fuel flow issue. At one time I read sooty/fouled plugs which indicate a rich issue. another time I read somewhere vaprolock and fuel pump issues which tell me lean (not enough fuel flow) issues. From that point it should be alot easier to focus on tracking down the issue.

if its fouling plugs and running rich, check the injectors for leaking/dripping. Have the dealer check the sensor inputs with the kawasaki DFI test harness adaptor and see if one of them is bad or sending incorrect info to the computer and tricking into thinking it needs to run richer and dump excees fuel. Connector corrosion has been a huge issue on the DFI series, I would think kawi made the dealer aware of this issue and the proper cleaning and grease to pack the connectors with but just soemthing to mention to them just in case it was not communicated by kawi. Possibly the ign modules with weak spark or timing issues, we have seen a few module issues on the DFI series, even with Kawi sort of denying the issues exist.

If its lean then look towards fuel supply. Fuel lines, filters, pump, selector valves, check valves, tank caps, tank fittings (seen some of those where the tank fittings mesh intake screens were clogged or collapsing and cutting off fuel flow)

Good luck with it, if all else fails keep pushing for them to swap the unit out for another or at least try another engine, etc. There is no true lemon law and it will be a battle, but dont get stuck with a unit that no one can fix. As a large dealership with 6 locations, we have had the rare occasion of getting the mfg to swap out a unit that was a problem child. Its a battle but can be done, the dealer should fight for you to get it resolved

[MikeSp]

damn, someone at the dealership needs to at least dial in and settle with a diagnosis if its a lean or a rich fuel flow issue. At one time I read sooty/fouled plugs which indicate a rich issue. another time I read somewhere vaprolock and fuel pump issues which tell me lean (not enough fuel flow) issues. From that point it should be alot easier to focus on tracking down the issue.

if its fouling plugs and running rich, check the injectors for leaking/dripping. Have the dealer check the sensor inputs with the kawasaki DFI test harness adaptor and see if one of them is bad or sending incorrect info to the computer and tricking into thinking it needs to run richer and dump excees fuel. Connector corrosion has been a huge issue on the DFI series, I would think kawi made the dealer aware of this issue and the proper cleaning and grease to pack the connectors with but just soemthing to mention to them just in case it was not communicated by kawi. Possibly the ign modules with weak spark or timing issues, we have seen a few module issues on the DFI series, even with Kawi sort of denying the issues exist.

If its lean then look towards fuel supply. Fuel lines, filters, pump, selector valves, check valves, tank caps, tank fittings (seen some of those where the tank fittings mesh intake screens were clogged or collapsing and cutting off fuel flow)

Good luck with it, if all else fails keep pushing for them to swap the unit out for another or at least try another engine, etc. There is no true lemon law and it will be a battle, but dont get stuck with a unit that no one can fix. As a large dealership with 6 locations, we have had the rare occasion of getting the mfg to swap out a unit that was a problem child. Its a battle but can be done, the dealer should fight for you to get it resolved

Thanks for all of your suggestions--they are appreciated. Kawasaki tech support did also suggest that some defective fuel line hoses have linings that can swell up. It did have vapor lock when switching to ethanol fuel after the first year of use (52 trouble free and enjoyable hours) and swapping out the Toro fuel pump for a Kawasaki fuel pump took care of that, but then it was fouling the plugs with too much fuel. The bulk head connectors were checked and full of grease. I will pass your ideas politely to the dealership owner. IF IF IF it is not fixed this time (after 12 months of PITA) I WILL ask Toro for a swap and would be glad to settle for a previous year's unit as long as it does not have that same engine.

Thanks again,

MikeSp

[MikeSp]

Two dealerships have failed to solve the problems that have plagued this Toro ZMaster 589 with the water-cooled, fuel-injected Kaw engine -- three full mowings of my 3 acres in 12 months without breaking down and the second dealership has now admitted that he has no clue and he is a former dealer rep for Toro. My calls to Toro go unreturned and I have no clue as to whom at Toro my attorney can contact and I refuse to just own an $11,000 boat anchor.

Suggestions/contacts at Toro??

MikeSp

[cattleman]

Sorry to hear you still can't get it to run. In addition to the 29hp Kaw on my Cub Cadet I have had a fuel filter problem on a 25hp Kohler and my grandson had a problem on his JD.
In my state there is a Consumer Affairs Department as well as the Better Business Bureau but I'm sure you attorney have already checked that out.

[viper00085]

hopefully the second dealership has been talking to toro on it (as he should have been) and there should a "case number" Toro assigns most tech help phone calls and email were it seems to be ongoing issue or major wty problem a case/log number. I would get the case number from the dealer and then just start calling the consumer tech line 1-800-348-2424. From there, you should be able to start stating your case and hopefully start getting somehwere to the higher ups who will either get it fixed or swap out units.

[MikeSp]

hopefully the second dealership has been talking to toro on it (as he should have been) and there should a "case number" Toro assigns most tech help phone calls and email were it seems to be ongoing issue or major wty problem a case/log number. I would get the case number from the dealer and then just start calling the consumer tech line 1-800-348-2424. From there, you should be able to start stating your case and hopefully start getting somehwere to the higher ups who will either get it fixed or swap out units.

Already been there and done that, awaiting a call back from Toro's manager of this case. At this point, I will only accept either a buyout or a different unit and 12 months of failure to fix should support my position.

MikeSp

[MowerMedic77]

Squeaky wheel get the grease..........squeaky wheel with attorney get the grease even faster :laugh:

Good luck man I hope you get your issue resolved keep up posted

[MikeSp]

Squeaky wheel get the grease..........squeaky wheel with attorney get the grease even faster :laugh:

Good luck man I hope you get your issue resolved keep up posted

I posted on our local community Yahoo forum for recommendations for an attorney that specializes in consumer affairs and will consider those recommendations and make an appointment for a consultation next week and then hope a VERY squeeky wheel will make a difference (BTW-my issue is NOT with either dealer--they were great, but with Toro and their indifference and lack of support in this matter and a financial hardship on a retired old geezer--me).

MikeSp

[MikeSp]

damn, someone at the dealership needs to at least dial in and settle with a diagnosis if its a lean or a rich fuel flow issue. At one time I read sooty/fouled plugs which indicate a rich issue. another time I read somewhere vaprolock and fuel pump issues which tell me lean (not enough fuel flow) issues. From that point it should be alot easier to focus on tracking down the issue.

if its fouling plugs and running rich, check the injectors for leaking/dripping. Have the dealer check the sensor inputs with the kawasaki DFI test harness adaptor and see if one of them is bad or sending incorrect info to the computer and tricking into thinking it needs to run richer and dump excees fuel. Connector corrosion has been a huge issue on the DFI series, I would think kawi made the dealer aware of this issue and the proper cleaning and grease to pack the connectors with but just soemthing to mention to them just in case it was not communicated by kawi. Possibly the ign modules with weak spark or timing issues, we have seen a few module issues on the DFI series, even with Kawi sort of denying the issues exist.

If its lean then look towards fuel supply. Fuel lines, filters, pump, selector valves, check valves, tank caps, tank fittings (seen some of those where the tank fittings mesh intake screens were clogged or collapsing and cutting off fuel flow)

Good luck with it, if all else fails keep pushing for them to swap the unit out for another or at least try another engine, etc. There is no true lemon law and it will be a battle, but dont get stuck with a unit that no one can fix. As a large dealership with 6 locations, we have had the rare occasion of getting the mfg to swap out a unit that was a problem child. Its a battle but can be done, the dealer should fight for you to get it resolved

I backed off of the legal method after consulting with my attorney and chose to give Toro another go at solving the engine problem. This time, the supervisor in charge at Toro has been in regular contact with me although my local dealer gave up. When I took it home this morning, I mowed the thatch that I had piled up with my compact diesel tractor's belly mower and sure enough, after 30 minutes, it started missing out and when the blades are shut off, the engine revs up and down repeatedly as usual -- so I started pinching fuel lines and found that when I pinched the return fuel line for the fuel tank I was using, the engine immediately ran great. I switched fuel tanks and the engine started revving up and down again and when that tanks return line was pinched, the engine ran fine. This should narrow down the source of the problem -- perhaps a regulator up on the carburator?? I even put a clamp on the return line and mowed an acre of tall grass and thatch just fine and as soon as I took the clamp off, the engine started revving up and down again...

GOTTA BE CLOSE to the problem... Toro is working with me now and I hope to hear of the solution within a few days.

Anyone have any ideas as to why it would run perfect when the return fuel line is clamped off??

MikeSp

[Cutting and Coaching]

I am looking at buying a new 2008 Toro with the Kaw 29 EFI..... Or at least I was until I read this thread.... Did you ever find the cause of your engine troubles? Has anyone else on this site had good performance out of the 29 Liquid cooled Kaw??

[MikeSp]

I am looking at buying a new 2008 Toro with the Kaw 29 EFI..... Or at least I was until I read this thread.... Did you ever find the cause of your engine troubles? Has anyone else on this site had good performance out of the 29 Liquid cooled Kaw??

After 12 months and two different highly qualified dealers, the answer is NO -- I seriously think that there is a fuel problem in regulating the fuel to the injectors and that the fix is not a major one (fuel pump alone was not the solution), but apparently Toro and Kawasaki just could not get together on the issue. After 13 months of frustrations, it appears that Kawasaki tech support to the dealers should have done MUCH MORE and from the detailed description given to them, a fix should have been relatively easy had they cared. OTOH, mine might have been that one out of a zillion that had the problems... good luck to you.

MikeSp

[bpfaeh]

I am reading this post from a couple years ago with great interest as I have a JD 797 with the 29HP DFI Kawi in the shop now....under load, runs GREAT, take the load off and the engine lopes up and down and occasionally backfires. They have replaced head gaskets, intake gaskets, all fuel injection sensors, regulator on the throttle body, and made all adjustments to within spec and still have the problem. They are replacing the ECU tomorrow and have YET to get in touch with Kawasaki!! All under warranty....but it has been there for over a month. Anybody ever hear of the fix for any of this? I am going to pinch the return line and see what mine does tomorrow....we have this same engine in a Scag TT and it runs fine....no problems ever. This is nuts...

[MikeSp]

I am reading this post from a couple years ago with great interest as I have a JD 797 with the 29HP DFI Kawi in the shop now....under load, runs GREAT, take the load off and the engine lopes up and down and occasionally backfires. They have replaced head gaskets, intake gaskets, all fuel injection sensors, regulator on the throttle body, and made all adjustments to within spec and still have the problem. They are replacing the ECU tomorrow and have YET to get in touch with Kawasaki!! All under warranty....but it has been there for over a month. Anybody ever hear of the fix for any of this? I am going to pinch the return line and see what mine does tomorrow....we have this same engine in a Scag TT and it runs fine....no problems ever. This is nuts...

Somebody will correct me if this statement is wrong, but I believe that JD purchases Kawasaki engines without warranty from Kawasaki and assumes that responsibility themselves -- thus it is all up to JD to fix the engine which seemed like a great idea to keep the mower all green or all orange so that the engine manufacturer would never become involved and no tech support would be needed by the end user from the engine manufacturer. Scag, Toro, Exmark, etc. purchase engines with warranties from Kawasaki and expect Kawasaki to support that warranty since each dealer has special dealer tech support numbers from Kawasaki. For example, Kawasaki tech support told my Toro service center to replace the OEM Toro fuel pump with a Kawasaki fuel pump as the cure. Then when the dealer called Kawasaki to report that the plugs were fouling after 15-20 minutes, the dealer was told how to measure and cut the output pressure of the fuel reaching the injectors to 26 psi (it was measuring 31 psi).

Based upon what I went through, even though I like water-cooled engines, I want a basic commercial engine without fuel injection or water-cooling on my new Toro G3.

MikeSp

[bpfaeh]

Wow....thats interesting. I have mixed feelings....the fuel injection is a HUGE fuel saver, and thats a big deal to me. Our Scag (and others I have seen around with the DFI) runs terrific and the fuel savings alone are worth the machine. I just hope that they can get this thing working....the way its supposed to! Fuel injection (especially the very basic setup on this engine) is very simple and should not be this difficult. I feel like the mechanics at the dealer are just not used to working on electronics and therein lies the biggest problem.

But back to the fix....anyone have any other info to add???

[gocards]

It's an electrical problem. It's most likely the stator or the rectifier. Had the same problem with mine. Also, check the ecu. Did it blow or melt any fuses?

[TeeBox]

Hey MikeSp. Looks like its been a few years since anyone has posted in this thread. I am having the exact same problem that you were having. Did you ever get it resloved?

[bburkcc]

I just experience this same problem last week on my 72" turf tiger.... mow about 40 minutes and then turn sharply to left or right and engine would die... then suddenly start backfiring and running like it was running on water.... found the filter clean and was ready to purchase a new fuel pump but luckly I decided to open the inline pre-filter fuel valve and there was just a trickle... pull off the hose from the tank including the inlet gromment while holding my thumb over the hole on a full tank of gas.... (not recommended!) The hose from the valve to the tank was completed inpacted with shavings of grass... ran a wire thru it and put it all back together and runs like a new one.... I guess the previous owner didn't wipe the cap before fueling or something... oh well hope this helps someone out there!