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View Full Version : Drove New Toro G3 and GrandStand!!


AdamChrap
10-16-2008, 09:32 AM
I got to drive the new Toro G3 (Mid Mount Gas Z) and it is much faster then the old ones, I'd say 11-12 mph like my Diesels. Lots of other good little things they did and very low tot he ground. The best thing I think is they no longer hang the deck by chains, It is a solid system (that still floats) I have no idea how to explain it other then to see it. It keeps the deck firmly in position say on the side of a hill?

I also got to drive the new GrandStand and let me tell you some thing, WOW!!
This thing is awesome! They really hit a home run here. I had it on a hill and when a wright or dane would normally start feathering in the front and I would find myself with one foot on the machine (to keep it running) and one off the back (to stop the front from going up in the air) kinda hopping along I simply steeped off and walked it up!!! The biggest surprise to me is even in the riding mode hanging off the back I think it did better on the hill thane a wright and I am 6'2" 260lbs, That is allot of weight hanging off the back. They told me if you want they will offer weights for the front to make that even better for bigger guys since they designed it for a operator weight of 180-220.
I got pics of both and will post then tonight.

KCfireman
10-16-2008, 09:36 AM
please posts the pics! I've heard positive and negative reviews about the grandstand.

hillbilly_lawnboy
10-16-2008, 11:31 AM
we wanna see please

J&R Landscaping
10-16-2008, 12:51 PM
Sounds great. Can't wait to see those pics!

MOHUSTLER
10-16-2008, 05:10 PM
I read after such bad press about the first try of the grandstand they revamped it. Id also like to see a picture of it.

STIHL GUY
10-16-2008, 09:13 PM
yea lets see some pics

DillonsLawnCare
10-16-2008, 10:47 PM
pics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AdamChrap
10-16-2008, 11:03 PM
Here is the G3

AdamChrap
10-16-2008, 11:04 PM
and the GrandStand!!!!!

DillonsLawnCare
10-16-2008, 11:05 PM
sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!!! i bet there going to be like $10,000.00 cause toro is so damn expensive.

AdamChrap
10-16-2008, 11:06 PM
sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!!! i bet there going to be like $10,000.00 cause toro is so damn expensive.

Toro guy told me top of the line GrandStand (23hp, 52" Deck) would be just under $8,000

DillonsLawnCare
10-16-2008, 11:09 PM
Toro guy told me top of the line GrandStand (23hp, 52" Deck) would be just under $8,000

Really?? thats sort of reasonable....what about the new z master???

2k1yzfr1
10-16-2008, 11:11 PM
Why is the stand on platform so high in the air on the grandstand? :confused:

AdamChrap
10-16-2008, 11:13 PM
Really?? thats sort of reasonable....what about the new z master???

Didn't have a price on that. The one there was a 60" with a 29hp Kaw I think. They are going to have a 34hp Kaw available when in the spring and I am sure it will be pricey!

AdamChrap
10-16-2008, 11:15 PM
Why is the stand on platform so high in the air on the grandstand? :confused:

I thought the same thing, It goes down when you stand on it. I don't think I was any higher then on a wright. It has suspension built into the platfrom so it has to be higher when there is no weight on it.

mag360
10-16-2008, 11:58 PM
Why is the stand on platform so high in the air on the grandstand? :confused:

It can't go too low or it will bottom out. Look how far it sticks out behind the drive wheels.

TLS
10-17-2008, 12:00 AM
I like some things I see.

Need more info on hydro's and engine choices.

I'm guessing eXmarks will be the same except for deck.

Oh, I'm talking about the G3

I have issues with all standers.

AdamChrap
10-17-2008, 12:05 AM
It can't go too low or it will bottom out. Look how far it sticks out behind the drive wheels.

Actually it wouldn't matter if it did bottom out it would just float up and if you were in a spot were it bottoming out badly was a problem you just step off. Believe me I have been very skeptical about this machine and I have had my issues with toro (and others). Most people were picking on a few issues with the G3 so it was not a toro love fest but there wasn't one person there that had a bad thing to say about the GrandStand. It really is awesome

Frue
10-17-2008, 08:05 AM
How well did the g4 do. Cutting and comfort. Spill the beans...

LawnMowerKing10
10-17-2008, 08:39 AM
How did you like the G3 ?

AdamChrap
10-17-2008, 08:39 AM
How well did the g4 do. Cutting and comfort. Spill the beans...

The G3 was nice, much faster, the new seat has less suspension but overall is much more comfortable. As far as cut it is the same turbo force decks they use now so it is great. I think the biggest improvement is getting rid of the chains that the deck hang from

TLS
10-17-2008, 08:53 AM
I think the biggest improvement is getting rid of the chains that the deck hang from

Whats funny, I never knew there was a problem with deck chains? :confused:

Though the new solid system looks good. The whole deck lift system looks beefy.

One thing I do see....They had a perfect opportunity to have a clear line of sight to see your rear tires from the operators seat (something that TORO was never known for), and they still make these big fenders. Hopefully the eXmark is different here. You NEED to see your tire tread.

jbell36
10-17-2008, 09:17 AM
i still don't understand not having scalping wheels on the grandstand deck, it is a floating deck right? g3 has them, i don't know...overall though it looks like a good machine, i really like the beefy tires, looks like it has very good traction...is it fast? for example, the john deere quick-track is faster than the wrights, how would u say the grandstand compares to these?

TLS
10-17-2008, 09:19 AM
http://www.toro.com/professional/lce/stand_on/micro/specs.html

brucec32
10-17-2008, 09:28 AM
Whats funny, I never knew there was a problem with deck chains? :confused:

Though the new solid system looks good. The whole deck lift system looks beefy.

One thing I do see....They had a perfect opportunity to have a clear line of sight to see your rear tires from the operators seat (something that TORO was never known for), and they still make these big fenders. Hopefully the eXmark is different here. You NEED to see your tire tread.

I also never knew chains were a problem. Maybe on huge decks it is. And one of the problems with some ztrs is not knowing how your tires are moving relative to the machine. I'm much more interested in how a machine turns than if I can race it at 12mph on the 5% of lawns that's appropriate for.

Unfortunately it's just another improved heavy too-big mower I can't use on residentials. Not all homes in America are built on acre plus tracts of former farmland, where even slopes are broad expanses of relatively smooth land. The height adjustment pin system seems improved, and it's low slung, but were people really having problems with this size mower?

As for the grandstand, I predict poor sales after an initial rush. Positives are the ability to stand or sit on one machine, switching on the fly, and a better height adjust system than most walk behinds (though not as convenient as a ztr's foot pedal). The problem is that is has no side anti-scalps, and the broad flat areas that is ok for are probably ok for a ztr also, or if bad enough, they'll break out the wb. That will limit sales, plus its inability to cut southern turf knocks it out of contention in a huge market.

I always chuckle that equipment manufacturers have fields where they test mowers. That's great if one is designing a field mower. And great for customers who mow fields. But just how many Americans live and work in fields? There isn't a flat spot on any of the commercial building complexes I see around here. Tons of berms, small domed areas of grass near parking lots, and bermuda sod laid over crazy undulations, though. I have also never seen a mower brochure showing Bermudagrass being mowed. Actually never anything but Kentucky bluegrass. Actually maybe Walker has done that. Then again, their mower can handle it. These can't.

The grandstand is worthless on undulating terrain. At least if one is doing properties where they care about the cut not looking like something out of a picasso. If they'd at least give us a 36" version where the deck matched the wheels it would have some use. The great plains are great, but we don't all live there. There isn't a flat acre of grass for miles around here, and if there is, it's a cow pasture, not a lawn.

pugs
10-17-2008, 02:49 PM
I like some things I see.

Need more info on hydro's and engine choices.

I'm guessing eXmarks will be the same except for deck.

Oh, I'm talking about the G3

I have issues with all standers.

I think there will be a couple Kohler engine choices available on like entry level models. These will have the cheaper deck that is not adjustable. Basically its the same deck just no adjustable chute. Then there are the Kawasakis that have the Turboforce deck. Might be some of the smaller 23-25HP models and then the rest are the new bigger block models up to 34 or 37HP.

Thy Hydro's are parker units. The pump and motor are together but can be replaced independently. Basically they are separate items bolted together without hoses to deal with. They each have a seperate filter and are completely independent from side to side. When you change the filter you change the fluid also since the filter is not external if I remember right.

I was not a fan of the plastic guard that kinda protects the pump fans. Just looks like a nice thing to get busted up or to collect lots of clippings/leaves/debris. And the way the engine is turned it might be PITA to change an electric starter when the time comes. Also with the combined pump/motor setup not sure how easy changing one or the other will be...

NINER
10-17-2008, 03:11 PM
if what i have heard is true the pumps are the same as on the John Deere 830 series. nothin but power robbers i would stay away from that type of pump system. the 830S also have the same plastic fan and cover i have had no troubles there.

mowtech
10-17-2008, 04:49 PM
if what i have heard is true the pumps are the same as on the John Deere 830 series. nothin but power robbers i would stay away from that type of pump system. the 830S also have the same plastic fan and cover i have had no troubles there.

Even though the system is built by Parker, I would not assume that they are the same. For one they are distinctly different in appearance. In addition, my understanding is that Deere's power problem was due to the undersizing of the system for the speed provided. Their field fix was to actually slow the pumps and machines down. What I've heard from people that have driven both the new Toro and Exmark machines is that there is plenty of power.

NINER
10-17-2008, 04:58 PM
Even though the system is built by Parker, I would not assume that they are the same. For one they are distinctly different in appearance. In addition, my understanding is that Deere's power problem was due to the undersizing of the system for the speed provided. Their field fix was to actually slow the pumps and machines down. What I've heard from people that have driven both the new Toro and Exmark machines is that there is plenty of power.

what type of grass and terrain were they used on

mowtech
10-17-2008, 05:17 PM
I always chuckle that equipment manufacturers have fields where they test mowers. That's great if one is designing a field mower. And great for customers who mow fields. But just how many Americans live and work in fields? There isn't a flat spot on any of the commercial building complexes I see around here. Tons of berms, small domed areas of grass near parking lots, and bermuda sod laid over crazy undulations, though. I have also never seen a mower brochure showing Bermudagrass being mowed. Actually never anything but Kentucky bluegrass. Actually maybe Walker has done that. Then again, their mower can handle it. These can't.


Well I've been involved in the design of mowers for almost 25 years and I don't recall just testing a mower on just some test fields. Large fields are used in initial "quality of cut" work relative to how well the the grass is cut in areas such as smoothness of cut, streaking, dispersion, and dribbling among other things. Generally all types of grasses are looked at including warm season grasses such as Bermuda, Saint Augustine, Zoysia, and Kikuyu. Mowers are also tested in real life conditions often with real users and in all types of conditions including all geographic areas of the country and, in fact, if the product is to be exported, in the countries to which they will be sold. Ability to ground follow and scalping are actually evaluated in the conditions you describe. Obviously, smaller manufactures, in most cases, do not test to this level, but I can assure you that all the major manufactures do, albeit some do a better job than others.

Most brochure photos are taken due to convenience and the type of grass is usually not a consideration.

zMaster225
10-17-2008, 10:27 PM
[QUOTE=brucec32;2559577]


.

I always chuckle that equipment manufacturers have fields where they test mowers. That's great if one is designing a field mower. And great for customers who mow fields. But just how many Americans live and work in fields? There isn't a flat spot on any of the commercial building complexes I see around here. Tons of berms, small domed areas of grass near parking lots, and bermuda sod laid over crazy undulations, though. I have also never seen a mower brochure showing Bermudagrass being mowed. Actually never anything but Kentucky bluegrass. Actually maybe Walker has done that. Then again, their mower can handle it. These can't.


Do you believe what you see in car brochures too?

Grits
10-17-2008, 11:12 PM
The best thing Toro did on the new Z was getting rid of the horizontal engine. But they put the gas tank under the seat???? So, if you have to work on anything electrical or hydro related, you have to pull the gas tank.

BAKERS
10-18-2008, 07:27 PM
Toro has failed at everything they have copied so far, I cant wait to test their "stander" but Wright has patents on that machine for a reason.
As far as the G3 it looks like their is some improvements but I also was noticing the gas tanks under the seat. Coupled with that and as tight as the machine looks it cant be that easy to work on.

Frue
10-18-2008, 09:11 PM
just priced out a 60 inch g3 with a 29 kaw, 10,800. Here is what i paid for a ferris 61 27 horse kohler 8100. I like toro and all but that really seems to be out there dont you think?

DillonsLawnCare
10-18-2008, 09:24 PM
just priced out a 60 inch g3 with a 29 kaw, 10,800. Here is what i paid for a ferris 61 27 horse kohler 8100. I like toro and all but that really seems to be out there dont you think?

JEEEZ....what's toro's deal??

You could buy a freakin' turf tiger for that!!! let alone TWO walkbehinds...etc..

TLS
10-18-2008, 10:12 PM
That Toro price includes a LC EFI engine.

These new ZTR's are all going to be more expensive....everything is going up in price.

$10,xxx isn't bad for a LC EFI ZTR.

The days of the $7-8K ZTR are long over.

doubleedge
10-18-2008, 11:10 PM
I think they overlooked a large market by not making a 36" version of the grandstand.

Grits
10-19-2008, 12:29 AM
That Toro price includes a LC EFI engine.

These new ZTR's are all going to be more expensive....everything is going up in price.

$10,xxx isn't bad for a LC EFI ZTR.

The days of the $7-8K ZTR are long over.

The G3 I drove wasn't EFI.

Toro mowers are overpriced and they kill the margins for their dealers. I don't understand why dealers would want to carry them.
There is also such a thing as "over engineered". Which I believe the G3 is. Yet another reason that I love my Hustler.

Grits
10-19-2008, 12:33 AM
I think they overlooked a large market by not making a 36" version of the grandstand.

I think they said that one will eventually be coming out.

greenred
10-19-2008, 02:36 AM
Can some one explain to me what issues there where with the decks hanging from chains? I own a Toro ZTR and have had absolutely no issues with this arrangement. If anything I found it a good arrangement. It was simple and functional, while allowing the deck good give if you bumped it into landscaping and what not.

Frue
10-19-2008, 07:44 AM
the decks were to heavy for mexicanos to lift with there foot so this new contraption will be easier to lift:laugh: I no it sounds funny but I talked to a high official in toro, and they say that they are designing around the smaller spanish employee . That is probably why you have the grandstand looking goofy with taller people on it.:hammerhead:

Frue
10-19-2008, 07:47 AM
See this is where toro and exmark are going to lose marketshare. See if you want a bagger your unit will cost you 13,780 I can buy a small car for that. This industry is getting out of control....... Soon it will be like banks there will only be a few companys making z'sss and n one will be able to afford them.

BOSCHERT LAWN CARE
10-19-2008, 08:59 AM
i ran both machines this week also and will say for the money you are getting what they are worth. i was sold on the scag turf tiger for the ztr to hold any hill and once i put the g3 on a damp hill only the t.t. would hold at 9 in the morning i was shocked! the pumps perform great and the power from the 29 kaw. is idectical to the scag. im not sold on the rubber isolated seat mounts, but the seat is so comfortable(reminds me of a nice bass boat seat). the on board digital tank gauge, sensor warnings, battery voltage read out is cool too. also the r.o.p.s will not have to be removed.. it folds out of the way nicely
the grand stand i ran was a 52-19 kaw and the power was great..the 23 will be a powerhouse. i think the hill side stability is great and performed better than my old great dane surfer. i hated the t-2 handles but they added a speed controller and that made operating the machine so much easier! i believe toro has made 2 great machines that the lco will appreciate their value/quality

TLS
10-19-2008, 09:21 AM
The G3 I drove wasn't EFI.



I was referring to Frue's post above.

AdamChrap
10-20-2008, 12:13 AM
See this is where toro and exmark are going to lose marketshare. See if you want a bagger your unit will cost you 13,780 I can buy a small car for that. This industry is getting out of control....... Soon it will be like banks there will only be a few companys making z'sss and n one will be able to afford them.

You are comparing a cheap kia commuter car to a machine that will make you $100,000 (If you figure life span of machine at 2000 hrs and $50 hr mowing rate) How can you compare such a thing and when I look at it that way I think it is cheap. I have bought 2 mowers this year that were over $13,000 and they make me allot of money.

Frue
10-20-2008, 08:44 AM
You are comparing a cheap kia commuter car to a machine that will make you $100,000 (If you figure life span of machine at 2000 hrs and $50 hr mowing rate) How can you compare such a thing and when I look at it that way I think it is cheap. I have bought 2 mowers this year that were over $13,000 and they make me allot of money.

listen we are mowing grass here. its not like they have come out with some new design that is going to mow for you while you sit in the truck.

mag360
10-20-2008, 09:01 AM
You are comparing a cheap kia commuter car to a machine that will make you $100,000 (If you figure life span of machine at 2000 hrs and $50 hr mowing rate) How can you compare such a thing and when I look at it that way I think it is cheap. I have bought 2 mowers this year that were over $13,000 and they make me allot of money.

That 100,000 can turn into 40,000 after expenses/taxes/etc. A few thousand more or less for a similar machine can be a selling point. The guys with the best bottom line are buying used.

AdamChrap
10-20-2008, 10:01 AM
That 100,000 can turn into 40,000 after expenses/taxes/etc. A few thousand more or less for a similar machine can be a selling point. The guys with the best bottom line are buying used.

USED!? How about warranty and even if it carries over it is not always easy to get a dealer to help you if you didn't buy the mower from them. I think buying new and the best saves me money in the long run.

jbell36
10-20-2008, 04:08 PM
USED!? How about warranty and even if it carries over it is not always easy to get a dealer to help you if you didn't buy the mower from them. I think buying new and the best saves me money in the long run.

i agree with that...

pugs
10-20-2008, 04:21 PM
The days of the $7-8K ZTR are long over.

Try Bobcat.

LawnMowerKing10
10-20-2008, 04:47 PM
Adam Chrap did you buy the g3? and what machines over 13,000 did you buy?

brucec32
10-20-2008, 09:50 PM
I have owned over 10 new commercial mowers and other than one engine claim (which is done via the engine mfg anyway) have yet to need to file a warranty claim on a new machine. So at some point the new warranty is expensive, especially on these high end models, as the savings on modestly used units can exceed the cost of even a major repair. And in most cases a "nearly new" unit has some warranty left on it anyway I'd assume.

All I can say about mowers being tested on Bermuda down south is that some manufacturers apparently aren't doing enough of it. (and sales reflect this as you rarely see the brands that don't cut well) 2 minutes on a grandstand mowing accross the slope on a bermuda lot would be all it took. There would be nice check shaped strips of brown stems showing through where the downside tip of the deck mowed lower than the upside when mowing accross the slope. And unless the landscaper topdressed it after installation, you'd have nice little gouge marks everytime a wheel fell in a low spot. At 1.25-1.5" there just isn't any room for a deck edge to drop w/o it showing.

Walker "gets it". Exmark "gets it". Too bad the grandstand designers didn't walk over to the Exmark offices and ask them why they put all those little plastic balls on the deck of those Turf Tracer hp's. Every mower design has limitations but this one seems like such an unecessary one. It only compounds the mistake that Toro is such a big brand in this area.

mag360
10-21-2008, 12:11 AM
USED!? How about warranty and even if it carries over it is not always easy to get a dealer to help you if you didn't buy the mower from them. I think buying new and the best saves me money in the long run.

We've bought new and used over the past decade. A new machine has the potential for breakdowns and sometimes the warranty just complicates things. If your used machine breaks a belt or loses an idler pulley you grab a new one at the dealer and replace it. On a new one you have to bring it in to the dealer and set up a loaner machine while they fix it---some dealers don't have loaners so you need a spare of just deal with the downtime. The real value comes in resale though. New machines hit the magic $3,000-5,000 mark after the first year or two if you have a large company. After that there is very little drop in value. Same thing with trucks only the time frame is longer. That said, we still buy new on occasion if the deal is good and it's a long term purchase.

One example within my company is a scag turf tiger we bought new about a year ago. Both wheel motors have been replaced under warranty, we shorted out a battery, and we had to have the deck transport catch and parking brake repaired. This machine cost about $10,000 and is now worth $5,000-6,000 and was in the shop for 4-5 days total in one season. Also used daily on the mowing route is a 2001 turf tiger. I replaced one hydro belt and one idler pulley in one season with no time at the dealer. Value on this one a year ago was probably $4500-5000 (although we bought it new in '01) and is now at $3500-4000. We have actually bought used before and used a machine for one season, then sold for the same price or higher (without and downtime or parts replacement cost)---if I could do this every season I would but you have to wait for the right deal.

Of course if you want the new machine/truck/etc and can use the write off that's one of the perks of running your own company---you make the decisions.:drinkup:

02DURAMAX
10-21-2008, 01:31 AM
the decks were to heavy for mexicanos to lift with there foot so this new contraption will be easier to lift:laugh: I no it sounds funny but I talked to a high official in toro, and they say that they are designing around the smaller spanish employee . That is probably why you have the grandstand looking goofy with taller people on it.:hammerhead:

Or just the white guys dont know what to do..:hammerhead::laugh:

AdamChrap
10-21-2008, 09:07 AM
Adam Chrap did you buy the g3? and what machines over 13,000 did you buy?

I might get one this spring.
Last year a bought a Toro 72" 27hp Diesel 15K
This year a bought a Toro 72" 25hp Diesel 13.5K
and Toro 60" 25hp Diesel 13K

TLS
10-21-2008, 09:12 AM
I might get one this spring.
Last year a bought a Toro 72" 27hp Diesel 15K
This year a bought a Toro 72" 25hp Diesel 13.5K
and Toro 60" 25hp Diesel 13K

Not to go off topic, but are you happy with that little Kubota Diesel in your Toro's? Enough power for the 72" deck? I was disappointed that Toro/Exmark didn't go with something in the 30hp range in the new diesels.

AdamChrap
10-21-2008, 09:14 AM
We've bought new and used over the past decade. A new machine has the potential for breakdowns and sometimes the warranty just complicates things. If your used machine breaks a belt or loses an idler pulley you grab a new one at the dealer and replace it. On a new one you have to bring it in to the dealer and set up a loaner machine while they fix it---some dealers don't have loaners so you need a spare of just deal with the downtime. The real value comes in resale though. New machines hit the magic $3,000-5,000 mark after the first year or two if you have a large company. After that there is very little drop in value. Same thing with trucks only the time frame is longer. That said, we still buy new on occasion if the deal is good and it's a long term purchase.


Then you need a new dealer. I have never had a warranty make things worse. My 27 Diesel had allot of problems and all I ever did was drop it off and pick up another. My dealer has a guarantee that they will ALLWAYS have a demo for you even when it is out of warranty if you keep it 10 years and bring it back to them to have it fixed they will give you a demo to use. My dealer is so great that they eventually gave me NEW MOWER because my 27hp diesel had so many problems (went with the 25hp diesel way better machine). Now if I had bought that 27hp diesel used I would have been screwed. I can't even imagine the money it would have cost me because I literally could not use it the way it was. So for me New is the way to go. Not saying I would never buy used if the price was way cheap, it was a mower that would not be used everyday and it was a very simple machine like a walk behind.

AdamChrap
10-21-2008, 09:16 AM
Not to go off topic, but are you happy with that little Kubota Diesel in your Toro's? Enough power for the 72" deck? I was disappointed that Toro/Exmark didn't go with something in the 30hp range in the new diesels.

The 25 is amazing! the power to weight on the 25 is actually better then the 27. The 27 is way way to heavy

mag360
10-21-2008, 12:46 PM
Then you need a new dealer. I have never had a warranty make things worse. My 27 Diesel had allot of problems and all I ever did was drop it off and pick up another. My dealer has a guarantee that they will ALLWAYS have a demo for you even when it is out of warranty if you keep it 10 years and bring it back to them to have it fixed they will give you a demo to use. My dealer is so great that they eventually gave me NEW MOWER because my 27hp diesel had so many problems (went with the 25hp diesel way better machine). Now if I had bought that 27hp diesel used I would have been screwed. I can't even imagine the money it would have cost me because I literally could not use it the way it was. So for me New is the way to go. Not saying I would never buy used if the price was way cheap, it was a mower that would not be used everyday and it was a very simple machine like a walk behind.

I didn't mean that as a dig at any of our dealers. We use three and all are good. A loaner was available for our use most of the time but we didn't take advantage of it because I set the lawn crew up with spares. If you run your own mowing crew then it takes no more effort to drop off a machine than to pick up parts. For me it is easier to grab parts while the mowing crew stays out on the route. The same would be true for a company larger than ours with a full time mechanic. Check out Etwman's picture thread on the pic and video section of this site---that's a pretty good example of how a larger company operates.
Sounds like you were better off buying your toro new because of all the issues you had but remember, if the dealer didn't set you up with the better kubota powered machine you would have taken a big hit trading in or selling the troublesome machine.
I'm glad to hear the 25 kubota has good power---one of our dealers is picking up the toro line and I'll take a look at those models for sure. They used to sell around $10,000 with the 23 kub, which was a great deal at the time.

brucec32
10-21-2008, 03:27 PM
Then you need a new dealer. I have never had a warranty make things worse. My 27 Diesel had allot of problems and all I ever did was drop it off and pick up another. My dealer has a guarantee that they will ALLWAYS have a demo for you even when it is out of warranty if you keep it 10 years and bring it back to them to have it fixed they will give you a demo to use. My dealer is so great that they eventually gave me NEW MOWER because my 27hp diesel had so many problems (went with the 25hp diesel way better machine). Now if I had bought that 27hp diesel used I would have been screwed. I can't even imagine the money it would have cost me because I literally could not use it the way it was. So for me New is the way to go. Not saying I would never buy used if the price was way cheap, it was a mower that would not be used everyday and it was a very simple machine like a walk behind.

I agree the dealer quality matters. But sometimes it is just easier to take it to a trusted mechanic of another brand or fix it yourself. My exmark dealer is an hour drive in the horrible traffic here each way. That's 4 hours to drop off and pick up a machine. I have to drive by 20 Kawasaki shops to get there. Unfortunately you can't always be sure it's a purely engine related problem so you have to go to the dealer.

I have bought used and "won" bigtime twice (super deals on nearly perfect running machines that after I resold them later cost me very very little) and also "lost" (big repair right after buying a hydro wb and minor repairs on an old gear drive wb that lasted just 3 years before engine problems too expensive to fix retired it). I think the key is buying them as demos or barely used machines. I avoid the higher hour units as I am not a mechanic and can not do any work on the engine internals and would be wary of attempting hydro replacement and diagnosis.

Frontier-Lawn
10-22-2008, 07:57 PM
and the GrandStand!!!!!

i don't know how that dealer got that Grandstand but the one here in town 2 doors down from the toro distributor for the whole state of FL and friends with the head gem over there told me today from the distributor mouth. NO Grandstands are being sold yet or being made until December. just a 3 prototypes are out. and 2 are at the gie and 1 just got in at WESTCO Turf Distib.

JD1515
10-22-2008, 11:40 PM
my local dealer had one in for the day from their rep this week..they also had the g3..and they said pricing was set but units will not be delivered until early/middle of november?? im sure there are more than 3 in the grass total!

brucec32
10-27-2008, 06:50 PM
my local dealer had one in for the day from their rep this week..they also had the g3..and they said pricing was set but units will not be delivered until early/middle of november?? im sure there are more than 3 in the grass total!

Maybe they'll sell in South Florida but I wouldn't expect many sales of a new (and therefore probably undiscounted) product in November! Then again maybe they want the early adapter guinea pigs to give them feedback and don't want to have to recall too many machines at once. That will give them a winter to fix what's wrong with them before the real sales season begins.

I'd pay $8K in a heartbeat for a 23hp/48" unit that could conform to terrain properly. The flexibility to pop into wb mode when needed is worth paying top dollar for and giving up a little ability vs a pure stander. But as it looks now it can't and so I won't.

jbell36
10-27-2008, 08:59 PM
i wonder how well the 48" deck will trim compared to the 52"? anyone know? i'm asking because i know the john deere quik-track's 48" has basically no trim edge, but the 54" does...

TNT LawnCare Inc.
10-27-2008, 09:24 PM
I think they overlooked a large market by not making a 36" version of the grandstand.

Rep Hear told me they were not looking into it as of yet,this is where Toro fails. A 36 inch stander fits thru most gated back -yards . Has excellent trim-ablity too. Toro has put so much into competeing with Wright's 48-52 rapid hgt stander that they've forgotten about the 36,maybe ?

Wright has nothing to worry about with this New Grandstand coming out, we have no problems with ours holding hills and they cut Great.

I meen i cant beleive Toro would put so much time and efferrt into making a stand-on mower that would hold hills maybe a little better then Wrights,yes i think the turbo-force deck is a little better.

But come on Toro if your gonna compete With Wright,you need to make and offer the hole Line-up 32,36,42,48,52 and the 61. What are you thinking by just offering 2 models ???:hammerhead:

Ive even heard some saying this Grandstand will compete with the ZK Stander. Get real and know what your talking about people.:hammerhead: There isnt a Stand-on mower out there that is even close to the ZK.

jbell36
10-27-2008, 09:29 PM
does the wright rapid height have a floating deck?

AdamChrap
10-28-2008, 11:14 PM
Rep Hear told me they were not looking into it as of yet,this is where Toro fails. A 36 inch stander fits thru most gated back -yards . Has excellent trim-ablity too. Toro has put so much into competeing with Wright's 48-52 rapid hgt stander that they've forgotten about the 36,maybe ?

Wright has nothing to worry about with this New Grandstand coming out, we have no problems with ours holding hills and they cut Great.

I mean i cant believe Toro would put so much time and efferrt into making a stand-on mower that would hold hills maybe a little better then Wrights,yes i think the turbo-force deck is a little better.

But come on Toro if your gonna compete With Wright,you need to make and offer the hole Line-up 32,36,42,48,52 and the 61. What are you thinking by just offering 2 models ???:hammerhead:

Ive even heard some saying this Grandstand will compete with the ZK Stander. Get real and know what your talking about people.:hammerhead: There isnt a Stand-on mower out there that is even close to the ZK.

Partly because the ZK is ridiculous. Rep told me they will have a 36 by the end of next season. for the record the smallest mower i have is a 48" walker ghs and I don't have one gated yard or place were even a 52 wouldn't fit. allot of people just don't need a 36"

Martinson9
01-07-2009, 10:43 PM
Rep Hear told me they were not looking into it as of yet,this is where Toro fails. A 36 inch stander fits thru most gated back -yards . Has excellent trim-ablity too. Toro has put so much into competeing with Wright's 48-52 rapid hgt stander that they've forgotten about the 36,maybe ?

Wright has nothing to worry about with this New Grandstand coming out, we have no problems with ours holding hills and they cut Great.

I meen i cant beleive Toro would put so much time and efferrt into making a stand-on mower that would hold hills maybe a little better then Wrights,yes i think the turbo-force deck is a little better.

But come on Toro if your gonna compete With Wright,you need to make and offer the hole Line-up 32,36,42,48,52 and the 61. What are you thinking by just offering 2 models ???:hammerhead:

Ive even heard some saying this Grandstand will compete with the ZK Stander. Get real and know what your talking about people.:hammerhead: There isnt a Stand-on mower out there that is even close to the ZK.

Being that this is a "hole" (whole) new product line it makes sense to start out with the most popular sizes. KISS--Keep it simple stupid. I'm sure after they have sold these models successfully for a period of time they will look at offering different sizes and engines as well.

You can't believe Toro would put so much time and efferrt (effort) into making this mower? That's like saying why would Chevy make the 1500 when F 150's are the best selling truck in America. I'm guessing they did this because they want to make money and compete!

straightlineland
02-26-2009, 12:53 PM
The grand stand looks awesome....got to go check out. how are the reliability of the toro z compared to scag tiger cubs?