How would you have approached this?

[Mad Estonian]

I'm in the middle of a job right now. Making some use of the old existing system, valves, some pipe, but most from scratch. I gave them a bid, instead of time and materials. I'm doing it all myself (slow time), going to be about 100 hours. Honestly, I thought it would be about 60, I really underestimated, and thought I would make more use of what was already there. But as I got more into the job, I began to realize I had to redo most of it.
I'm not for renegotiating contracts (if I bid high and got the job, I wouldn't be giving money back), and they've got more work for me at another place, so I'm not particularly complaining, but I definitely want to avoid doing this again. I'm pretty good now at bidding installs, but ones like this I find are trickier. I've ended up spending quite a bit of time troubleshooting the old system.
Just wondering how other people would approach this kind of job. I know I could have tried to go T + M, but I don't think the customers would have been too comfortable with that. Or, I could have offered a contract that had a caveat for any repairs to the old system maybe, but that would have been tricky too. I don't know, what do you guys think?

[bicmudpuppy]

Anyone who tells you they haven't "been there", is either new to repair/renovation or lies like a cheap rug. Not any in between in my book. The decision to take a job like this is measured, not in the job itself, but in how badly you want / do NOT want said project. If your doing it with employees, you have to be higher, no matter what. OR you have to go T & M and risk losing the customer. EVERYONE does a bit of charity work (its good for the image, reputation, and soul). Be it the "little old lady" next door you adjusted the nozzle for because she asked about it, or the cute house wife with the new system who asks about setting controllers while your working across the street (and her stop wasn't free, she offered you a coke and some cookies). Your going to be about 50% over on labor, but you took the job knowing you were going to do ALL of the labor. If you don't get hurt, and you get some more business (hopefully at full rates), it may all be good. What amount of investment / effort would you normally put into generating new leads or additional business? Learning which ones to gamble on and getting "lucky" with the ones you do gamble on is part of the business. If your not "good" or "lucky", then avoid projects like this in the future. If you end up being both "good" AND "lucky", remember that Karma does exist and you will get to pay the piper someday.

[DanaMac]

On larger redesign jobs I give a "between $A and $B price". I don't give a firm price. Can't. Won't. It's between this and that amount, and then I figure it T&M. Don't know what else to say. We've all done what you are doing now, and that's why I give a high and low price. Or just tell them it's a whole new system, and refer to someone else (since we don't install).

Good luck!

[Waterit]

I'll take my guess at what it's going to take to do the job, then give customer a "not to exceed" figure. If we get it fone under the figure we're heroes, if it goes over at least I've covered my a$$.

Sometime it's easier (and cheaper for the customer) to just start over, especially since we never know who buried what where and how. Or why, for that matter:laugh:

[Mike Leary]

give customer a "not to exceed" figure.

Same with me; everybody has a budget & nobody likes surprises.

[Mad Estonian]

Thanks for the feedback.

[Mike Leary]

Sometime it's easier (and cheaper for the customer) to just start over, especially since we never know who buried what where and how. Or why, for that matter:laugh:

I would say starting over is always the preference, especially if it's jacked. You can never turn a poor system into a decent one, I think a lot of us feel sorry (wrongly, it's not our fault) for the client & suggest the band-aid. I've sold re-dos by reminding them a new system is under warranty & we'll take care of it. Anything that happens to a band-aid is usually blamed on you. :wall

[Waterit]

Anything that happens to a band-aid is usually blamed on you. :wall

I thought it was all our fault anyway:laugh:

[Mad Estonian]

I would say starting over is always the preference, especially if it's jacked

Yeah, I totally agree. I'm not keeping much on this one, just the Irritrol valves, wiring, and a bit of pipe. Believe me, they're getting an excellent system, for a steal of a deal. But it's in a beautiful location, on the water, looking out to Saltspring Island. The photos are gonna look real nice on my website next year.

[Waterit]

they're getting an excellent system, for a steal of a deal. But it's in a beautiful location, on the water

I might shave a little off the bill when working on the beach if the scenery includes attractive, shapely sunbathing females:laugh:

[Mad Estonian]

I might shave a little off the bill when working on the beach if the scenery includes attractive, shapely sunbathing females

Only seals and sealions so far. Though I've heard the mermaid myth came from sealions (kind of hard to imagine, have to see one in a wig I guess). Though I guess if you've been out at sea long enough, any number of things will begin looking awfully good...

[Mike Leary]

You live in a great area, I lived north of Campbell River on a island in the Johnston Straight; those were fine days.

[Mad Estonian]

You live in a great area, I lived north of Campbell River on a island in the Johnston Straight; those were fine days.
Yeah, I remember you saying way back that you were Canadian, right? Was it Quadra or Cortes, or further north?
It is a beautiful area. I've been on the Island all my life, hard to imagine ever leaving. A lot of people are figuring out now that this is one of the most beautiful places on the planet, with all the amenities, so I don't think there's ever going to be a shortage of folks with money and sprawling properties that need irrigating.
And don't any of you other guys think about moving over here, the bar for the industry is set so low that it's easy for me to be one of the best. I don't want any of you "experienced, reliable professionals" coming in here and cutting/watering my proverbial grass:p.

[Wet_Boots]

You live in a great area, I lived north of Campbell River on a island in the Johnston Straight; those were fine days.
Yeah, I remember you saying way back that you were Canadian, right? Was it Quadra or Cortes, or further north?
It is a beautiful area. I've been on the Island all my life, hard to imagine ever leaving. A lot of people are figuring out now that this is one of the most beautiful places on the planet, with all the amenities, so I don't think there's ever going to be a shortage of folks with money and sprawling properties that need irrigating.
And don't any of you other guys think about moving over here, the bar for the industry is set so low that it's easy for me to be one of the best. I don't want any of you "experienced, reliable professionals" coming in here and cutting/watering my proverbial grass:p.(writes this all down - alerts relatives)

[Mike Leary]

[I]Yeah, I remember you saying way back that you were Canadian, right? Was it Quadra or Cortes, or further north?

West Thurlow Island, east of Kelsey Bay across the straights. I was in my mid twenties, had a stash of money from my music biz time, bought a boat & squatted for eight months, 'till the money ran out, sure was nice.

[Waterit]

[I]And don't any of you other guys think about moving over here, the bar for the industry is set so low that it's easy for me to be one of the best.

I'll be staying right where I am - the investment in weather-suitable clothing would break me :laugh:

[Mike Leary]

I'll be staying right where I am - the investment in weather-suitable clothing would break me :laugh:

British Columbians work naked.

[Waterit]

British Columbians work naked.

Now that's a scary visual.

[Mad Estonian]

West Thurlow Island, east of Kelsey Bay across the straights. I was in my mid twenties, had a stash of money from my music biz time, bought a boat & squatted for eight months, 'till the money ran out, sure was nice.

Wow, that is remote. Bet it was nice though. Sure you weren't just running BC bud back and forth from the mainland?:cool2:

[Mike Leary]

West Thurlow Island, east of Kelsey Bay across the straights. I was in my mid twenties, had a stash of money from my music biz time, bought a boat & squatted for eight months, 'till the money ran out, sure was nice.

Wow, that is remote. Bet it was nice though. Sure you weren't just running BC bud back and forth from the mainland?:cool2:

No, in those days, you brought your own. We did do well trading beer for salmon with the fishers in our bay; they could not go ashore.