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bobcat_ron
10-21-2008, 08:31 PM
Yup, Glorious City of Abbotsford has bought a new excavator, not sure of size tracked or wheeled configuration, but they are looking for an operator, applicant will be trained on a Gradall, Grader (new Deere) and sanding/gravel truck. Applicant must also posses Class 3 with air or Class 1 license.

A reliable source told me that they will hire on the spot if they know who you have worked for and if they are on the hired equipment list.
Pay is $24.00 per hour starting wage, weekends off and holidays, you can bank your over time and sick days to get 1 week paid off and 1 week off with no pay.
Expected annual income would be $50-$60,000 a year, with full benefits and optional pension plan. A vehicle with a fuel tank will be provided when the machines are unable to be driven back to the yard at the end of every day.

If things get sour here, and they are still looking for an operator, I am officially selling everything and signing up. I'd make more money a year than I make now, no equipment payments, no repair costs, no over head.
If the economy goes to hell, I'd still be getting paid, they will keep an operator busy doing something.

I am tempted.

Very, very, tempted.

And if I find out that a rubber tired excavator has been bought, f*ck it, I signing up ASAFP.

Dirtman2007
10-21-2008, 08:34 PM
Yup, Glorious City of Abbotsford has bought a new excavator, not sure of size tracked or wheeled configuration, but they are looking for an operator, applicant will be trained on a Gradall, Grader (new Deere) and sanding/gravel truck. Applicant must also posses Class 3 with air or Class 1 license.

A reliable source told me that they will hire on the spot if they know who you have worked for and if they are on the hired equipment list.
Pay is $24.00 per hour starting wage, weekends off and holidays, you can bank your over time and sick days to get 1 week paid off and 1 week off with no pay.
Expected annual income would be $50-$60,000 a year, with full benefits and optional pension plan. A vehicle with a fuel tank will be provided when the machines are unable to be driven back to the yard at the end of every day.

If things get sour here, and they are still looking for an operator, I am officially selling everything and signing up. I'd make more money a year than I make now, no equipment payments, no repair costs, no over head.
If the economy goes to hell, I'd still be getting paid, they will keep an operator busy doing something.

I am tempted.

Very, very, tempted.

And if I find out that a rubber tired excavator has been bought, f*ck it, I signing up ASAFP.

Ron,

How much other equipment is your's besides the skid steer? Was the little hitachi mini your's or you dads?

Sounds like a good job if everything is true about it.

KCfireman
10-21-2008, 08:38 PM
sh!t Ron i would take that in a heart beat! Thats like a city opening a new fire station w/ 25 Full-time FF positions and your only requirements are your fire certs!

bobcat_ron
10-21-2008, 08:39 PM
I'd sell my F450, GN Trailer, Cat skid steer with 8 attachments, that's just what I own. chances are, my brother would buy off me, but I think he'd kill me first, he knows damn well that the City wants to do their own ditch cleaing every year.

Construct'O
10-21-2008, 08:40 PM
Deere grader!! Hummmm! Your have to lower your standards :laugh:

You would be bored to death in a week.Same old,same old thing everyday.Your get fat or fatter, and lazy:cry:, then you won't be any good too anyone.

Good luck what ever you decide.:usflag:

Junior M
10-21-2008, 08:40 PM
I dont think I would quit working for myself, I like being my own boss, and it sounds like you have a pretty nice setup now, but everybody has there own opinion....

bearmtnmartin
10-21-2008, 08:40 PM
It's too late. I saw gravel rat doing some bitching with it already. I mean ditching......

bobcat_ron
10-21-2008, 08:41 PM
sh!t Ron i would take that in a heart beat! Thats like a city opening a new fire station w/ 25 Full-time FF positions and your only requirements are your fire certs!

Like I said, I am very, very tempted. I haven't felt like this since wanting to try out a Cat skid steer almost a year ago, and look how that turned out.

MackCat
10-21-2008, 08:55 PM
Like I said, I am very, very tempted. I haven't felt like this since wanting to try out a Cat skid steer almost a year ago, and look how that turned out.
You would never be happy, just think of all the fun you would miss with you beloved SEX ON TRACKS!

kreft
10-21-2008, 08:55 PM
Ron, Do what you wan't to do. If I was you I would work for the city. Besides you could always go back to the family buisness if you get laid off. :)

kreft
10-21-2008, 08:57 PM
Mackcat- If you put it that way i think it's time for ron to get some new ass!

MackCat
10-21-2008, 09:02 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

kreft
10-21-2008, 09:04 PM
But than again, that deere grader might have AID's or HIV. lol

YellowDogSVC
10-21-2008, 09:11 PM
Like I said, I am very, very tempted. I haven't felt like this since wanting to try out a Cat skid steer almost a year ago, and look how that turned out.

that's a good job and you can do what you want on the weekends and if it doesn't work out or you get bored, you can fall back on your old biz. I'd take it if GR is right about Canada! :canadaflag:

ccstrebe
10-21-2008, 09:18 PM
Why sell your equipment, unless less of course you are making payments. Take the job and keep the equipment for back-up if you don't like the job.

stuvecorp
10-21-2008, 09:26 PM
Ron, take the job. Keep your kitty just for stress relief. If I would come across that type of deal I would do it.

bobcat_ron
10-21-2008, 09:30 PM
I'm going to lose sleep on this one, I just know I am going to weighing out the pro's and con's of both jobs.

skidster32
10-21-2008, 09:32 PM
if i were u id do it.....i work for municipality and its a great job. good pay, good benefits and such....and ALLOT of overtime. and your right if things do get bad ur not out of a job.

stuvecorp
10-21-2008, 09:34 PM
There isn't anything wrong with putting your 8 in and enjoying the rest of the day.

bobcat_ron
10-21-2008, 09:38 PM
I'll take my mom and dad's advice that they gve me when I was a youngin'....when in doubt, pray............and stop touching yourself at night.

SinjonAssociates
10-21-2008, 09:41 PM
Now wait a minute=;) Who here has been recently laid off, does nothing but offer Doom and Gloom and even started this thread creating 107 responses and 2,478 hits? I think we need to collectively juice up GR's resume for this job
George

Junior M
10-21-2008, 09:44 PM
Now wait a minute=;) Who here has been recently laid off, does nothing but offer Doom and Gloom and even started this thread creating 107 responses and 2,478 hits? I think we need to collectively juice up GR's resume for this job
George
GR got laid off? wtf!! I havent been reading that money is drying up thread...

Gravel Rat
10-21-2008, 09:46 PM
What in the h*ll are you waiting for go apply for the job its guaranteed work. The economy in B.C. is going to completely tank its not going to be long before it hits Vancouver/Lowermainland hard.

I would be finding the hiring manager and kissing azz.

SinjonAssociates
10-21-2008, 09:49 PM
What in the h*ll are you waiting for go apply for the job its guaranteed work. The economy in B.C. is going to completely tank its not going to be long before it hits Vancouver/Lowermainland hard.

I would be finding the hiring manager and kissing azz.

Oh yes I forgot, 3980 posts with negative content!!!

Gravel Rat
10-21-2008, 10:06 PM
Too many people haven't got it through their thick skulls that jobs and work is disapearing. Jump on any muni job you can get its guaranteed work even if the economy goes into recession.

You guys in the USA can be in denial all you want but the USA is heading for a bad recession. There is already massive un-employment, banks still going broke, house foreclosures. The USA is far worse situation than Canada.

Ron shouldn't be fooling around get the muni job because like it or not B.C. is heading for a recession. The boom has gone bust your only kidding yourself if you think it hasn't.

Ron can work the muni job for 5-10 years till the economy comes back and start his own excavation business.

Scag48
10-21-2008, 11:36 PM
Take the job Ron, seriously. I've already contemplated the muni job route, even doing something NOT involving running equipment just for the stability and that's saying a lot because I love what I do. To have that kind of guaranteed job AND you're running iron, no brainer dude. I say go for it.

P.Services
10-21-2008, 11:42 PM
wow $24 an hour haaaaa. never ever ever for me.

DUSTYCEDAR
10-21-2008, 11:46 PM
TAKE IT and do side work

Gravel Rat
10-22-2008, 12:31 AM
You never get rich working for somebody else but working for somebody else for awhile Ron can get some money stashed away.

Muni jobs are hard to get usually the managers try give the jobs to friends.

Like I meantioned before I applied for a muni job but ended up being bumped for a "managers friend". Never had another chance to get hired on. But the muni likes to put you on a casual employee list it takes a long time to get full time employment.

bobcat_ron
10-22-2008, 10:49 AM
I've been doing alot of thinking.

PRO's of going to the Muni job:

-I would never have to worry about where the next job will be and how long it will take me to get there, as long as the job is between 8am and 4 pm, it's all good.
-steady source of income, I can accurately judge and anticipate how much money is going to be coming in.
-Nice, slow paced work days, regular coffee breaks and it's always fun woring with these clowns.
-I will get to operate a Gradall excavator, one of my favourite types of excavators, and a Grader, it's a little challenging, but I like a challenge.
-Union, baby. Need I say more?
-I would never have to worry about fixing anything that breaks down, it's all done for me.
-Tax breaks on property you own, you get a computer "fund" and it gets $20 taken off every paycheck until the computer "fund" is payed off, with no interest.
-Really cool looking safety vests.
-With the money I make (after paying off my debts) after selling all that I own from my business, I could have a lot stashed away and hopefully move out and buy some land and build a house just for me.
-There's some really hot girls working in the Public Works offices and in the Parks departments. Oh yeeeeaaaaahhhhh.
-The different jobs will take me into situations where I always wanted to work, all the different gravel pits, side streets and corners of the City I've never seen.


CON's of going to the Muni job:

-I like the change of scenery associated with my line of work, the different people and familiar people I know makes things easier.
-I am still in charge of what I do and when I do it things.
-I have to abide by someone's rules and I don't look good in a bright orange pair of overalls, think giant orange marshmallow with a beard.
-Random drug testing, if I wanted to whip out my wang in front of another dude, I could go to Crackcouver and visit a select "bath house".
-I will never be able to do a 10 hour day without clearing it with the office due to over time issues.
-I really love my Cat skid steer and boasting about it in front of Bobcat people.
-The odd time I get 2 cheques in 1 month amounting to over $7,000 is a major boost to my ego and my account.
-The relationship between my brother and I, would go to hell.
-I would have to move out of the house as I would no longer be a part of the family business.
-No more farmer's daughters to hit on, only to be rejected. (OK, that's a double edged sword.)
-My income tax goes back up, no more BC Small Business tax credits for me.
-I hate digging around utilities and pipe lines in traffic in the middle of Summer.
-I might get put on a shovel and rake crew.


NUETRAL POINTS

-Steady income.
-Medical and Dental benefits, I only see a Doctor every 3 months (meds re-fill) and what the hell is a Dentist?
-I could keep everything on the side, and try to balance everything.
-Bragging rights.
-Union.

YellowDogSVC
10-22-2008, 11:02 AM
cons: they may switch over to a fleet of T190's and put you back in one.

bobcat_ron
10-22-2008, 11:08 AM
cons: they may switch over to a fleet of T190's and put you back in one.

No, no, no, no, They switched from Bobcat 2 years ago to Deere, and now they want to go to Cat. They are finished with the Bobcats, every mechanic on the Works yard hated working on them, and it cost them more money to get a Bobcat Country mechanic in to fix it. Deere doesn't break down like Bobcat.
But they have their own people that run the compact equipment, if the applicant has a Class 1 license, they get put on the big stuff.

Construct'O
10-22-2008, 01:42 PM
OR!!!!!! you could get fired:rolleyes:.Where your at now they might want to fire you at times ,but know better:)

Then there is getting left out of the well:)

Again good luck Ron:usflag:

bobcat_ron
10-22-2008, 02:17 PM
That's another valid Neutral point, I am the type of person to get pretty steamed up if "some" people don't take my advice, especially in cases where their idea failed and mine was the only logical solution, I can get very pissy and stay like that until everything blows over.
There have been cases where I have come to work with a bad attitude and it reflects in my work, and if a person is going to come away from a job position like mine into a work enviroment where you are a reflection of the City you work for, I think something will shatter.

I'll just keep thinking about it today, I have the day off (another con if I sell) to reflect and edit video's I've made.

One point my Dad made was, if you leave the family business and come back after a few years, it's hard to get back up to what you were doing, case in point; I see a lot of farm where the kids leave in their late 20's and pursue other financial intrests, then they decide to come back in 10 years to take over the farm from their old man, and they find out how tough it was and they feel like they have lost it.
I don't want to end up like that.

Gravel Rat
10-22-2008, 02:26 PM
Work for the muni till the economy comes back which maybe 5 years from now maybe 10. This boom B.C. has seen for the last 5 years has been a record breaker. More money has been spent and thousands of people so deep into debt.

If you hum and haw too long the job will be gone. It might be taken already.

jefftb
10-22-2008, 02:43 PM
Here's my take (in the form of a short story)...

About 5 years ago I was provided the opportunity to get my graduate degree through an off-site corporate program hosted here in my hometown. This major corporation had quietly put out the word that they would provide the facilities for a local university to provide an MBA program for both their own personnel and a few local people that were interested. This was a good deal and I took the advantage.

Well, my classmates all worked for this corporation. I was the only outsider in the first few classes. I would listen to their work "horror" stories about things going on inside the company between themselves, co-workers, and their bosses. You know the usual company politics and crap like that.

Well, I've had the pleasure (and displeasure, I'm sure BC Ron knows of what I speak) of never working for anyone that does not share my last name.

I listened in continuous amazement of the crap these people put up with before each class. Finally, after about six weeks of this I stood up before class and banged on the table to get everyone's attention. My statement was as follows:

"My hat is off to each and every one of you. You put up with more nonsense, crap, and backfighting than anyone should but I guess that's how it goes in the world of working for others. If it were me, I would most certainly be out of a job by now-because I would have told your bosses or co-workers to stick it up their a**ses collectively and shown myself the door before I would subject myself to this.":nono:

Ron, there is highs and lows to everything that goes on in life. I've seen and heard how that grass is greener on the other side of the fence for people in those situations. Its nice to know that if you make a mistake that you may just lose $1,000 for a billion dollar corporation (or a muni with an operating budget of millions of dollars) instead of that $1,000 coming out of your butt and maybe other family members.

I know that sometimes my grass is turning brown at times but its still just as sweet when I think about it the right way. Well, and if I hold my nose the right way.:clapping:

Good luck with your decision.

Gravel Rat
10-22-2008, 03:56 PM
Ron's dad probably doesn't like the fact that if Ron does take the muni job his dad lost another son from the familly business.

Like I said B.C.s economy is resource/comodity based well that is dissapearing at a fast rate. B.C. doesn't have manufacturing jobs or any other large industries that employs lots of people.

Right now B.C.s economy is running off of realestate sales and construction. Well realestate sales in most parts of B.C has been flushed down the toilet.

Vancouver/Lowermainland is seeing some work because the gov't is spending billions on the 2010 Olympics. Other parts of B.C. is dead slow because logging is gone, realestate sales are gone, new construction has slowed down because people are not spending money. If it wasn't for the gov't spending tons of money on the Olympics the work would be pretty slow.

The other big thing was the babyboomers spending every cent of their retirement money buying realestate. Realestate prices in most parts of B.C. doubled or trippled. People were buying houses like crazy nobody had any worries of spending 1 million dollars for a house. If they wanted it they bought it.

Today houses are sitting on the market for months nothing is moving. Realtors never seen it this slow worse than the 80s.

As for jobs the good paying construction jobs are very little all what is left is low paying jobs you can't afford to live on. In B.C. if you make less than 20 dollars per hour your in poverty. Like I said a 21 dollar per hour job like I have is bare minimum. Working for 8-10 dollars per hour in a grocery store or a restaurant is the only jobs left.

If Ron can get a steady job for 24 dollars per hour go for it. Being self-employeed in todays market is brutal. You do jobs for people they don't pay for months. My brother is going through that he is owed 8 grand from a company he works for they can't pay him they haven't been paid.

Contractors I know are in the same boat they are owed thousands of dollars but haven't been paid by the customer. Alot of the contractors have said to me if they could get out of the excavation business they would. Too much stress dealing with people not paying bills and dealing with other B.S.

There is a couple guys I know that used to work for the muni and quit to try it on their own and now they wish they never quit.

Ron has to think he will be making 4 grand a month gross which is okay it will pay the bills and its steady.

In todays market its feast or famine well its really leaning towards famine. Look at the thousands of jobs lost in the forestry when construction goes for a dump there will be thousands more jobs lost.

No construction if nobody is buying.

Jobs that used to keep our parents employeed for their life time are going or gone I'am only 2 years older than Ron.

In this economic boom too much work was done in a short period of time. What should have taken a year took a couple months, developments that would have taken a 5 years were done in 2.5 years.

Junior M
10-22-2008, 04:25 PM
I technically have never had a job, but after working for myself, and working with this guy last summer, I would much rather work for myself, I like being able to start when I want and quit when I want, I like being able to make my own decisions on what equipment to use and how to do something...

And plus I wouldnt want to ruin your friendship or whatever you want to call it with your brother, because that would ruin any chance you really ever had to getting back to where you are now if you went to that muni job...

After reading your list of pro's and con's I think the con's much out way the pro's..

Albery's Lawn & Tractor
10-22-2008, 07:09 PM
Thats easy to say when your 15 junior. What would you do if you were 25 with a wife and child, your the main source of income, and all of a sudden the work that you do suddenly dlows to a hault? Yes you can make good money while there's work to be done, but when work slows your income dissappears. A guranteed check, benefits, set hours, weekends off, and doing what you already love to do is great in times like now. Ron should take this job right away. You can always quit if you don't like it, but you might not be able to get on months from now.

Junior M
10-22-2008, 07:14 PM
Thats easy to say when your 15 junior. What would you do if you were 25 with a wife and child, your the main source of income, and all of a sudden the work that you do suddenly dlows to a hault? Yes you can make good money while there's work to be done, but when work slows your income dissappears. A guranteed check, benefits, set hours, weekends off, and doing what you already love to do is great in times like now. Ron should take this job right away. You can always quit if you don't like it, but you might not be able to get on months from now.
I know that is why I said MY OPINION! if Ron does take the job, and then quits a couple months later, he has ruined his business relationship with his brother, which as I understand was his main source for work, so he would have to start all the way backover... once again just my opinion and ron asked for peoples opinion so I threw mine in...

CAT powered
10-22-2008, 07:15 PM
Yes, but Ron is a single guy living at home.

I'd say that moving out of your parents house would be the absolute best thing you could do, Ron. You've got a much better chance with those farm girls if you don't live in your parents house any more. I would say you should hang on to your kitty as long as you can afford to so that if things go south you have something to fall back on. Plus if you build a new house it'll be handy for grading your your new yard.

DUSTYCEDAR
10-22-2008, 07:18 PM
omg THIS IS TURNING INTO A SKIRT CLUB :cry:

bobcat_ron
10-22-2008, 08:14 PM
I'll talk this over with my brother when I see him in the next day or so, see what he knows and thinks.

But I have a suspicion that a rubber tired excavator was bought, due to all the complaints I gave my buddies on the DDI crew.

bearmtnmartin
10-22-2008, 11:57 PM
------Thats easy to say when your 15 junior. What would you do if you were 25 with a wife and child, your the main source of income, and all of a sudden the work that you do suddenly dlows to a hault? Yes you can make good money while there's work to be done, but when work slows your income dissappears. A guranteed check, benefits, set hours, weekends off, and doing what you already love to do is great in times like now. Ron should take this job right away. You can always quit if you don't like it, but you might not be able to get on months from now------

I started my business with a brand new wife, a brand new baby who spent his first night in the ICU and didn't leave for 6 months, and a machine(backhoe) that I didn't know how to run. We sure starved for a few years, but I didn't want to work for someone else, and I just made it work. As the saying goes, "if you settle for what you've got, you deserve what you get" Risk and free enterprise is the American(and Canadian) way.

Gravel Rat
10-23-2008, 01:41 AM
For Ron a job with the muni would be a easy job no worries about getting paid. Gain some money for a house get some of the bills paid for.

You go to work put your 7.5 hours in and go home no worrying about are you going to be working tommorow.

My opinon Ron should take the job he can always do his skid steer service on the side.

You may think you have freedom being self-employeed but with the economy in B.C. being unstable as it is your really taking a chance.

Lets see companies in B.C. that have been in business out of business after 40 years. More people deeper in debt than ever people will be claiming personal bankruptsy.

Good Luck with what ever Ron chooses.

One thing he can think about is go to work put in 7.5 hours then have the weekends off. He doesn't have to listen to his old man screaming at him.

Junior M
10-23-2008, 07:04 AM
------Thats easy to say when your 15 junior. What would you do if you were 25 with a wife and child, your the main source of income, and all of a sudden the work that you do suddenly dlows to a hault? Yes you can make good money while there's work to be done, but when work slows your income dissappears. A guranteed check, benefits, set hours, weekends off, and doing what you already love to do is great in times like now. Ron should take this job right away. You can always quit if you don't like it, but you might not be able to get on months from now------

I started my business with a brand new wife, a brand new baby who spent his first night in the ICU and didn't leave for 6 months, and a machine(backhoe) that I didn't know how to run. We sure starved for a few years, but I didn't want to work for someone else, and I just made it work. As the saying goes, "if you settle for what you've got, you deserve what you get" Risk and free enterprise is the American(and Canadian) way.
Just go read post number 40 in this thread...

bobcat_ron
10-24-2008, 10:59 AM
After some time talking things over with my brother yesterday afternoon, I've decided to tough it out and stay put.

There's no way in hell I can keep my little enterprise on the side and try to balance things, I might as well set up a rental system, and we all know how equipment gets treated in Rental fleets.
I refuse to sell it due to the way things are going now, and I can use the equity and collateral of my business to get a loan in the future.
My dad is turning 63 today, and it's only another 5 years before his age creeps up on him and he won't be able to keep up as much as he is doing now, I was told 10 years ago that when that time comes, I will take over.
If I am working full time at the Muni job, I'd have to quit.

The last 2 days I have had no work, and I valued that time greatly, I tended to my truck, washed it off inside and out, washed the trailer off, I shot the sh*t at some of my places of business and went to 2 job sites to get an idea of what will happen there.
I didn't realize that was the stuff I missed, even though I am a person that needs to keep my brain focused on work, I still craved the spare time at home away from work to take time out and smell the roses, and this time of the year is magnificent, all the maple trees here are bright orange and yellow, it's a sight to behold.
If I was a Muni employee, I would be on a 2-3 month honeymoon period and I do burn out after even 3 weeks straight work if I didn't have at least 2 week days off in a row.
I spent last night going through all the 1300 photo's I took since a year ago, that would be a distant memory, even the future jobs I have coming up, they would never happen. Although I have run a Gradall, and I'd love to get on another one, there are other types of equipment we rent that I like better, like the Volvo ADT's we rent and future large jack hammer for the bigger demo jobs next year.
The short time I have left in this world, I want to leave behind one hell of a pile of job site pictures and memories behind, my old man never did that, and I want to make sure I leave something behind.
I don't always feel comfortable enough being told what to do by a bunch of people I hardly know, there are just too many chiefs and not enough Indians there at the Public Works yard, it's insane, and I'd rather not be a part of that.

I know I might realize in 2 years that taking that job would and should have been the best thing I should have done, but sometimes I just have to suck it up and pucker up and move on, I still like to be in charge of what I do.

In short, I'm here to stay.


Unless a hot farmer's daughter decides to "change" me.



God forbid.

jefftb
10-24-2008, 11:11 AM
:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::drinkup:

stuvecorp
10-24-2008, 11:53 AM
Can't blame ya, I value my freedom more than benjis so I can relate on that.

Gravel Rat
10-24-2008, 02:56 PM
Well that would be a tough decision to make yes being self employeed is nicer to be in. I would be like to be self employeed again but can't justify it there isn't enough work now its worse. Anybody in the skid steer service would be broke even the mini excavating service its starvation.

Guys that tried the skid steer service 5-10 years ago couldn't make it go. The guy I recommended struggled like h*ll it was like beating your head against the wall. There was no way you could make a living at it. Sold his machine at a loss.

It is the terrian that limits the use of a skid steer very few places you can even use one.

You do have one benefit your not too deep into debt and you have your old man and your brother to work for. Your not trying to make your whole living off your CTL.

You just need to find yourself a daughter of a brown brother :laugh:

iron peddler
10-24-2008, 05:27 PM
hey pebble mouse, he made his choice, leave it alone, if we all followed your advice there would be a line to sack bags at the local wal mart because it would be steady income.

Dirt Digger2
10-24-2008, 06:16 PM
i just landed a Municipal job! Well part time...i will be their on call graveyard shift snow plow driver this winter...i'll be running a 41K International 8LL or a 10-wheeler with a 12' plow....

LET IT SNOW!!!!!

Gravel Rat
10-24-2008, 07:15 PM
I wouldn't be laughing you guys in the states might only have Walmart jobs left.

Ron is lucky they get allot of farm work where as 90% of other excavation companies get nothing but residential excavating. Residential excavating in most places in B.C. have dropped off because realestate has dropped off.

I was self-employeed but I couldn't keep doing it because the general contracting work isn't enough to pay the bills. I used to do landscaping to helping pound nails and working in construction. I also weld and pull wrenches.

When you live in a area with a very hard labour market jobs are tough to get you have to do a bit of everything.

Right now I couldn't even find a job driving gravel truck most trucks are parked most of the contractors are trying like h*ll not to lay any employees off .

If you were dumb enough to try start a excavation business in todays market you would be so broke. The mini excavating business was a niche market not anymore. Like I said there is so many excavators around the market is flooded just on my street there is 4 excavators owned by homeowners for their own use 12 ton to 20 ton. Homeowners own minis or backhoes for their own use. Rental places rent mini excavators they are always rented by homeowners doing their own work.

It is a market where if you have a bad name/reputation or you charge more than the competition your not working. It takes atleast 5-10 years before you get recognized as a good excavation contractor. Advertising is all word of mouth. Any other advertising is a waste of money. If you screwed one customer it gets around fast and your done. Most excavating companies started 30-40 years ago. Any new companies have a tough time getting work.

When ever I did work I never overcharged or gouged anybody if you did you might aswell say good bye to your future customers.

The way it goes in a extremely tough job market. If your not a jack of all trades your going to find it tough. If you want a job with a excavation contractor you will have to beable to drive truck to being a mechanic.

CAT powered
10-24-2008, 07:41 PM
I love how you know EXACTLY what the markets in the US are like, GR.

I've got plenty of work right now and I'm in the US.

meets1
10-24-2008, 08:06 PM
Best of luck and I think the better decision but I am SELF as much as possible. I love the fact of working for me! Yes - alot comes from that but my dad, mom, in-laws all work for others - always complaining about something. I complain but silently!

bobcat_ron
10-24-2008, 09:19 PM
I complain too, but I do something about it PDQ, like this morning, my mom was getting tired of waiting for dear old dad to fix the patio roof posts, so I spent 10 bucks and 4 hours of my time and did a proper job.
Now I get next month's room and board free!

Sweet!

KrayzKajun
10-24-2008, 09:25 PM
I complain too, but I do something about it PDQ, like this morning, my mom was getting tired of waiting for dear old dad to fix the patio roof posts, so I spent 10 bucks and 4 hours of my time and did a proper job.
Now I get next month's room and board free!

Sweet!

hey ron, you can stay at my house if ya come fix my patio and fence!!!

Gravel Rat
10-24-2008, 09:34 PM
I have to do house repairs too :laugh:

bobcat_ron
10-24-2008, 09:40 PM
You 2 are just a bunch of pansies!

ksss
10-24-2008, 10:15 PM
I have to do house repairs too :laugh:


Is this a common thing in Canada? 20 plus years of age and living at home with dear old mom and dad?

meets1
10-24-2008, 10:30 PM
I did - saved lots of money - drove to college, spent some money, eat off of dad - steaks to boot and lived at a home a little longer to save more money - then got married, 3 kids and 1 dog later...................well...................I'll leave it at that!! =))

Gravel Rat
10-24-2008, 10:40 PM
Is this a common thing in Canada? 20 plus years of age and living at home with dear old mom and dad?

You do when there is no places to rent. I have a choice live in my parents basement or live in a tent. Any place that is for rent they want 1000-1500 dollars a month. I can't afford a house and I can't get a mortgage on my pizz poor 40 grand a year wage. The average house price here is 300,000.

Scag48
10-24-2008, 11:07 PM
I have a job interview on Monday working at a ski resort this winter, it pays to be multi-skilled. I've worked in the ski industry, landscape maintenance, install, and design, done some light trucking but will have my CDL soon, food & beverage industry for 2.5 years, part time photographer, I can play the crap out of piano/keyboard so I have a little clout in the music biz, not bad on a computer, on top of all that I can take what I learned running equipment to practically any job related to construction. I'm not afraid to do what it takes to make ends meet. GR you amaze me man. You're so worried about what things might not be. What if you tried something else? I was worried when I got laid off, that's worst case scenario for anyone. Now I've realized that I shouldn't ever worry, I can do damn near anything to get my bills paid, so I quit worrying about it.

P.S., $300K is absolutely nothing for a house. That's bottom of the market where I live and it doesn't scare me whatsoever. You obviously don't want a house bad enough. Maybe your parents should throw your ass out and make you swim, you've had enough time in the lifeboat. Take some hits, get out of the house and make something of your life. You're 32 and living at home, think of what you're missing out on.

ksss
10-24-2008, 11:09 PM
You do when there is no places to rent. I have a choice live in my parents basement or live in a tent. Any place that is for rent they want 1000-1500 dollars a month. I can't afford a house and I can't get a mortgage on my pizz poor 40 grand a year wage. The average house price here is 300,000.


Well you do what you have to I guess. If were me I would be putting a plan together that would allow for some independence ASAP. I have largely stayed out of this thread as my personal views would seem rather harsh, and in an attempt to adhere to the "if you don't have anything sorta nice to say......" I will not comment any further except to say. Your parents fullfilled their obligation when you reached 18. Your inability to fullfill your obligation to "get a life" should not be their problem.

Gravel Rat
10-25-2008, 12:10 AM
There is a big difference the BANKs in B.C. don't loan money to people that make 40 grand a year simple as that. Do you think I have tried to get a mortage. Why do you guys think the USA has big problems with banks because they loaned money to people that couldn't pay. That doesn't happen here in Canada you need to meet very strict requirements.

Do you know what its like to go into a bank and the loans manager just laughs. Why bother when you need a annual wage of 80-100 grand to buy a house. My gross monthly salary isn't enough to afford squat.

A 300,000 dollar house is pretty well the cheapest house the mortgage payment is 1200 dollars a month I need to put 15% down. I don't have that kind of money. A 300,000 dollar house gets you a fixer upper on 1/4-1/2 acre the house is about 1000-1500 square feet. A better house is 400,000 it gets you a better house on 1/2 acre. Then they go up to 2 million.

My parents don't care if I live in the basement or not they know there isn't any places to rent. The places to rent are so scarce if the ones that are any good are gone in hours. People were renting travel trailers during the summer. Sure I can move out and live in a tent in the bush.

Like I said rental rates are 1000-1500 a month that is half my wages for a month. That doesn't inlcude electricity or cable TV. Anybody that makes 10-12 dollars per hour can't afford to live here because there is no places to live. Anybody that does work in a grocery store lives with relatives or are married.

You can move to Crackouver and live in somebodys basement suite for 650-700 a month and work for 15 dollars per hour. My cousin who is born and raised in Vancouver can't afford to buy in Vancouver. It took him and his girlfriend a couple months to find a decent place to rent.

Like I said a 21 dollar per hour job is a low wage maybe down in the USA thats high or above average. The cost of living in B.C. is so high and the taxes on everything.

Soon as I graduated highschool the economy was in a slump back in 94 there was very few jobs it was really slow. Low wages back then getting 10 bucks per hour was about the most you got paid. 1 ton trucking rate was 25 dollars per hour.

Truck driving jobs were few far and between I went and got my CDL 11 years ago. I worked a year for minimum wage as a building supply because things were so bad. Never had a hand out never collected welfare and never got anything for nothing.

Did landscaping for quite a few years dealing with a thankless job people always complaining it was costing too much. People wanted me to supply tools and supplies for 10 dollars per hour.

Today trucking jobs are close to non existant or jobs with a excavation contractor is non existant. If I was working for one of the contractors I would probably be laid off or working couple days a week.

More people are saying to me be thankfull you have a job as more people are being un-employeed. Its going to be a rough winter for some with job loss looming over them no X-mas presents under the tree this year.

Yep the young guys that are employeed in the logging industry that are going to loose their job are in a real good mood. They have house payments and other expenses to pay. You loose a 28 dollar per hour job and try find another job good luck. Working in a grocery store for 10 bucks per hour don't cut it. Their dad worked in logging and their grandparents worked in the logging industry, and 2008 their jobs are on the line.

People are a little bitter and angry that things have taken a dump so bad something never seen in decades. The gov't doesn't care that idiot Gordon Campbell was shooting his mouth off about tax cuts the other night.

It is the way it goes I'am cranky and crabby because I'am angry seeing good paying jobs going down the toilet. Construction jobs are coming to a end the last good paying jobs. A career as a excavator operator is no longer.

A person used to beable to be a equipment operator and make a decent living it isn't that way anymore.

The whole province is screwed not just where I live. Good paying jobs gone and poor paying McDonalds wages are left.

I hope Ron made a good decision because a muni job is going to be hard to get next year.

Enough ranting

East Coast Lawn Choppers
10-25-2008, 06:27 AM
Like I said a 21 dollar per hour job is a low wage maybe down in the USA thats high or above average. The cost of living in B.C. is so high and the taxes on everything.

Enough ranting

How do you know what it is like it the "USA" ? I left a $26.00 and hour with a lot of overtime and full benefits to become self employed... I was tired of being cooped up in a building and wanted to enjoy the outdoors again. So I left that job to go back to what I started out doing before I received my degree's in electro-mechanical and electronics. I was making between 80,000-100,000 a year and that was about 6 years ago.
Around here houses start in the 300,000-400,000 range, an older twin or half a double goes for about 200,000 here.
I am glad I did what I did and we have a great family business where I can see my kids and wife as much as I want, unlike before only seeing them a few hours a week...

RockSet N' Grade
10-25-2008, 09:11 AM
Ksss, you are so cruel :) Sure glad I haven't made my point of view public :)

KTM
10-25-2008, 09:40 AM
Get rid of that truck payment and you will be able to afford rent, or land A girlfriend or boyfriend or a roommate like many other people have to do

bobcatuser
10-25-2008, 11:44 AM
Is this a common thing in Canada? 20 plus years of age and living at home with dear old mom and dad?

It seems to be more common with my generation. You can read about the ďGeneration MeĒ, http://www.generationme.org/aboutbook.html

I moved out after high school, apprenticed 2 years auto mechanic. Then started landscaping with a 1 ton dump and a Bobcat 721.
Iím a 1 man show and have 3 machines half dozen attachments to keep me as busy as I want.

There is a serious shortage of professional dedicated people, in all industries right now. And will only get worse as the Baby Boomers retire.

bobcatuser
10-25-2008, 11:45 AM
Yup, Glorious City of Abbotsford has bought a new excavator, not sure of size tracked or wheeled configuration, but they are looking for an operator, applicant will be trained on a Gradall, Grader (new Deere) and sanding/gravel truck. Applicant must also posses Class 3 with air or Class 1 license.

A reliable source told me that they will hire on the spot if they know who you have worked for and if they are on the hired equipment list.
Pay is $24.00 per hour starting wage, weekends off and holidays, you can bank your over time and sick days to get 1 week paid off and 1 week off with no pay.
Expected annual income would be $50-$60,000 a year, with full benefits and optional pension plan. A vehicle with a fuel tank will be provided when the machines are unable to be driven back to the yard at the end of every day.

If things get sour here, and they are still looking for an operator, I am officially selling everything and signing up. I'd make more money a year than I make now, no equipment payments, no repair costs, no over head.
If the economy goes to hell, I'd still be getting paid, they will keep an operator busy doing something.

I am tempted.

Very, very, tempted.

And if I find out that a rubber tired excavator has been bought, f*ck it, I signing up ASAFP.

Ron, The City might not hire you...you are over qualified for the position, Serious.:drinkup:

bobcat_ron
10-25-2008, 02:19 PM
Ron, The City might not hire you...you are over qualified for the position, Serious.:drinkup:

Trust me, the way they hire people is nutz, I have had kids as young as 18 running side mowers on the tractors in front of me, no experience, other than they say "I drove a tractor on my Uncle's potato farm with the harvester behind it, that counts as tractor experience". No wonder Braber Equipment and Rollins Machinery make a killing off mower knives and whole mower heads. :laugh:

Out of the 10 trucks they have, only 4 drivers have full class 1, and the others are expected to pull trailers behind their trucks when needed, every large 400+ horsepower truck has a pup trailer, but the people that have Class 1 are stuck driving truck and trailers with TLB's or filling in on garbage duty. Meanwhile, these pup trailers just sit in the yard, rusting.

At least 2 times a month, they have a "blitz". That job requires 4 trucks to haul blast rock from Barrowtown Pump station to the gravel pit in Huntingdon, if they used their own trucks with pups, they could save money by not hiring private trucks and only have 3 truck and pups, instead of 6 single trucks. What a joke.
That would be one of the con's, drive truck, get to the pit and load the rock yourself with one of the new Cat 962 and 966 loaders and spend a week doing it.
They had a Case loader, but it went up in flames one day, Case doesn't do very well in pits from what I was told.

ccstrebe
10-25-2008, 04:37 PM
After some time talking things over with my brother yesterday afternoon, I've decided to tough it out and stay put.

I still like to be in charge of what I do.

In short, I'm here to stay.

Good for you. You didn't strike me as the type to be working for the government and risk having a superior over you making your life miserable, and having to put up with the 'no common sense' mentallity of municipalities.

You are still young, you have lots of time to slip into the family business when it is ready for you to take over. If you feel like life is passing you by, do some community service on a regular basis. It will make your life more fufilling and who knows, you might meet that special someone.

Good luck

bobcat_ron
10-25-2008, 06:36 PM
Oh I don't consider myself young anymore, being 30 and having aches and pains in my joints is a bad sign in the morning.
Not too mention the only morning wood I see is when I walk right into the bathroom door because I am too tired to see it.

Construct'O
10-25-2008, 07:15 PM
There is a serious shortage of professional dedicated people, in all industries right now. And will only get worse as the Baby Boomers retire.

I think you hit on something that is important to the new generation !!!!!!

The ones that become professional decated people will have it better because there will be a shortage,as you say.

They might even have it better then we did,if they can get things togather.

I like your thought,never looked at it that way until you mentioned it.

Good advice,for the new generation on here like Junior and Kreft and some others,get at it guys.:drinkup::canadaflag::usflag:

Gravel Rat
10-25-2008, 09:12 PM
In 10 years there will be job openings when boomers retire but most boomers are working past 65 because they are broke. As for trained people to replace them isn't happening because younger people are not being trained because company won't hire people to train.

I don't know what Ron is complaining about sore bones I'am 2 years older than he is and the chiropractor has already said to me if I injur my back anymore I will be in a wheelchair. I have sciatica and my leg goes numb because the nerve is pinched.

There is a big difference in a excavator operator that does residential work in a city to a operator that works in rural excavation. For one anybody that works in a city doesn't know what maxing a excavator out is. No offence to Ron but his jobs never really push a excavator to its limit. He does a good job and that comes from his years behind the controls. Half of you guys that are in the mini excavating business havent pushed a mini to its limits.

The contractor I worked for always said you have to learn the limits of the machine and he pushed you to learn the limits of the machine. You have to wear the seat belt to keep your face off the front window of the excavator.

With mini excavators your in situations were you lift the blade the machine will slide like a tobogan.

Put any of you city machine operators in a rural excavation jobsite you will have a eye opener.

CAT powered
10-25-2008, 09:25 PM
If you have to have your seatbelt on to keep from going through the glass you are doing something wrong.

I am fortunate to have a dozer with me on almost every job and if there is something that steep I will cut myself a road with the dozer so that I can operate off a stable surface. If I can tell I would have to cut in a road before I start a job I include that in on my estimate and bring the dozer along with me even if the job itself doesn't require a dozer. I'm not talking about anything fancy though. 2 blade widths and you're set. Just something the excavator can go across that is somewhat level.

Gravel Rat
10-25-2008, 09:56 PM
Your not maxing the excavator out if your not wearing the seat belt. Every residential job your maxing the the machine out. Like I said there is a big difference bettween a operator that works in easy condition to one that works in tough conditions.

A bulldozer in my area does nothing your not going to move rock that needs dynamite to move. The only place a bulldozer is used is in a gravel mine pushing piles. A bulldozer on a landclearing job is a waste of time it can't do anything.

To work here you need dynamite or a rock hammer. A excavator on bare bald rock is like working on ice its slippery if your not carefull you can slide uncontrolably.

When your pioneering a driveway into a building site your working a excavator to what it can take. Some places you have to watch out you can starve the machine of fuel if your low. Working on steep slopes it hard on the swing gear.

There are jobs where its steep enough that the excavator doesn't want to stay put it keeps sliding down the hill. Machines with rubber tracks are bad for this its why I hate rubber tracks on a mini. You might aswell put a set of skis under the machine.

You should see where Cat skinners here take bulldozers you ever seen a dozer pushing down almost 45 degree slope. When your working in a gravel pit your pushing material down the hillside its steep. Its steep enough that you have to litterally crawl hands and knees.

bobcatuser
10-25-2008, 09:56 PM
There is a big difference in a excavator operator that does residential work in a city to a operator that works in rural excavation. For one anybody that works in a city doesn't know what maxing a excavator out is. No offence to Ron but his jobs never really push a excavator to its limit. He does a good job and that comes from his years behind the controls. Half of you guys that are in the mini excavating business havent pushed a mini to its limits.

The contractor I worked for always said you have to learn the limits of the machine and he pushed you to learn the limits of the machine. You have to wear the seat belt to keep your face off the front window of the excavator.

With mini excavators your in situations were you lift the blade the machine will slide like a tobogan.

Put any of you city machine operators in a rural excavation jobsite you will have a eye opener.

Sounds like youíre describing working on the side of a mountain in The British Properties, West Vancouver. Those are the best paying jobs.:clapping:

Kewit is looking for 10 union operators right now. They start at $28.41 plus Medical and Dental. http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/ShowJob_en.aspx?OrderNum=4108156&Source=JobPosting&ProvId=10&Keyword=excavator&Sources=JobBank&Student=No

Gravel Rat
10-25-2008, 10:00 PM
Bobcatuser its worse than the British Properties.

As for Kewit run don't walk run like h*ll they are not a good employer there is a reason why they are looking for employees. The management is SOOO Bad they treat employees like a 2 year old. There is too many chiefs and not enough indians. Employee turn over in Kewit B.C. division is really high. It makes you wonder how the company can stay in business.

bobcatuser
10-25-2008, 11:07 PM
Bobcatuser its worse than the British Properties.


I know what the terrain is like along the coast, I have worked over there on 2 jobs. I have stayed at waterfront B&Bís with steep narrow driveways.

The North Shore has the same terrain, itís the same land mass, blasting, solid granite, difficult job sites and wealthy homeowners. All the same as the Sunshine Coast, Except we have about 2.1 Million people living in the metro Vancouver area vs. the 2500 in Pender.

ccstrebe
10-26-2008, 03:56 AM
Oh I don't consider myself young anymore, being 30 and having aches and pains in my joints is a bad sign in the morning.


30 is young when you are 50 like me. When I was 30 I thought I was old too. But now that I'm 50, I can hardly remember being 30. Oh what I would give to be 30 again.

You are too young to be having aches and pains, if you do, then you need to start doing a little exercising on a regular basis. Take it from a 50 year old that knows. I exercise regularly and I may not be the fastest at our track but there is a 30 year old rider/friend that can't standing being beat by a 5o year old.

Junior M
10-26-2008, 10:07 AM
30 is young when you are 50 like me. When I was 30 I thought I was old too. But now that I'm 50, I can hardly remember being 30. Oh what I would give to be 30 again.

You are too young to be having aches and pains, if you do, then you need to start doing a little exercising on a regular basis. Take it from a 50 year old that knows. I exercise regularly and I may not be the fastest at our track but there is a 30 year old rider/friend that can't standing being beat by a 5o year old.
I am 14 and I have aches and pains, they may come from sports and other activities, but I still have aches and pains no matter where they come from. My knees kill me if I dont wear my braces, and I cant sit in the 190 for more than an hour, because I have to sit up straight in the seat and that just kills my lower back, and I have been to chiropractor and he tells me that riding four wheelers and having one leg shorter than the other is what makes my back worse, oh yeah and falling off of horses doesnt help me either.. :laugh:

bobcat_ron
10-26-2008, 10:56 AM
30 is young when you are 50 like me. When I was 30 I thought I was old too. But now that I'm 50, I can hardly remember being 30. Oh what I would give to be 30 again.

You are too young to be having aches and pains, if you do, then you need to start doing a little exercising on a regular basis. Take it from a 50 year old that knows. I exercise regularly and I may not be the fastest at our track but there is a 30 year old rider/friend that can't standing being beat by a 5o year old.

I been spending the past 3 days wailing on 8x8 beams under the patio roof, cutting off the rotted ends, glueing concrete blocks underneath and resupporting them with a nice cedar skirt around the bottom, that type of work I love doing, but it's tough work and tough on the brain, all that thinking.

ksss
10-26-2008, 11:21 AM
I am 14 and I have aches and pains, they may come from sports and other activities, but I still have aches and pains no matter where they come from. My knees kill me if I dont wear my braces, and I cant sit in the 190 for more than an hour, because I have to sit up straight in the seat and that just kills my lower back, and I have been to chiropractor and he tells me that riding four wheelers and having one leg shorter than the other is what makes my back worse, oh yeah and falling off of horses doesnt help me either.. :laugh:


I would imagine also Jr. sitting on that bridge over the river, playing the banjo is a little hard on the joints.:laugh:

Junior M
10-26-2008, 03:30 PM
I would imagine also Jr. sitting on that bridge over the river, playing the banjo is a little hard on the joints.:laugh:
:laugh: :laugh: what so you think I live in the middle of nowhere? Well, I dont, but one of the hunts clubs is...

ksss
10-26-2008, 05:06 PM
:laugh: :laugh: what so you think I live in the middle of nowhere? Well, I dont, but one of the hunts clubs is...

I take it you have never seen the movie "Deliverance"? I am sure they still have it on Betamax.:laugh:

mrsops
10-26-2008, 05:12 PM
:laugh: :laugh: what so you think I live in the middle of nowhere? Well, I dont, but one of the hunts clubs is...

your def not a city kid are you jr :laugh: come up to New York City you will be running back to the carolinas :waving:. That ferry goes into Manhatten

Junior M
10-27-2008, 06:51 AM
I take it you have never seen the movie "Deliverance"? I am sure they still have it on Betamax.:laugh:
Yeah, I have seen the movie ksss....

And no I hate the city, way to many freakn people and its way to loud, and didnt I mention no many stupid people?