Where do you draw the line? Scrub - Pro?

[FrankenScagMachines]

Where do you draw the line between a scrub and a pro lco?

sometimes it seems like you all are discriminating against anyone not a member of LS:mad: :mad:

Like well, if you don't use LS, your not a pro.....
Or, if you charge less than $20 for a small lawn that takes 15 or 20 minutes, your a scrub lo-baller....????
I am soon going to start a small time low cost bizness. A 5x8 trailer, 8hp 32" Rear engine rider (it's a 1989 Toro 8-32 Professional, Professional designates Industrial engine) and it cuts and stripes better than any rear engine rider there.. don't laugh, it cuts great. really. and anyhow, a weed eater brand string trimmer (yep, the cheap $59 ones from wallly world) and a 21" murray pusher. And a 1964 Bush Hog garden tractor (this is for snowplowing , driveway grading and garden plowing. I restored it and built a 48" vplow for it, fully angling. ) I know not the best machines, but I will move up. I can use mom and dad's 16" Craftsman rear tine self propelled tiller also as needed.
I will only want $8-10/hour profit, plus gas/ other costs. Am i a lo-baller scrub? Where do you draw the line?
ps, i do my neighbor's currently and get $20 a mowing and takes about an hour and fifteen minutes. They let me use my equipment or theirs. I use mine I like it better and if it breaks it's not their's. I fix my own stuff and theirs when needed.
Eric

[TGCummings]

Well, Eric, if you are a licensed and insured professional, and "$8 to $10/hour profit" will pay for your equipment, truck, fuel, license, liability insurance, health insurance, retirement, mortgage, and family expenses then you are not a scrub.

Otherwise, get a job somewhere and work your way up. $8/hour can be made in a wide variety of fields, starting out, without the hassle of running your own business. When you're ready to take the full responsibility of running your own company, and all the inherent expenses and considerations, then do so.

Until then, I would recommend you don't. There is a large number of professional companies out there trying to make a real living, for themselves and their families, and you're cutting into that by doing things "below board".

On top of that, you're probably losing more money than you're making, though you don't realize that yet.

Get an after school job and save some money while someone else handles the headaches (and responsibilities).

[1MajorTom]

The "scrub" discussion really has been beat to death.

Some of us here don't do this as an afterschool gig or to put a few extra bucks in our pockets. Some do this full time to put food on the table, to pay the bills, and to keep a roof over our families heads. So of course it is going to be important to us for the industry as a whole to charge the going rate. I guess that's why this topic comes up so much.

[awm]

i must agree major. lets not do this again. do a search . its probably still back there somewhwere.

[65hoss]

This thread was started just to cause problems.

I do agree with TGCummings. If you think you can make money at $8-$10 per hour cutting you have no idea what expenses are. Also, if you think using the cheap equipment keeps your cost down, YOUR WRONG. They wear out faster and your constantly spending money to fix or replace.

[KDJ]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BushHogBoy
[B]Where do you draw the line between a scrub and a pro lco?

I will only want $8-10/hour profit, plus gas/ other costs. Am i a lo-baller scrub? Where do you draw the line?


I think at your age 14 1/2 cutting grass for $8-10 per hour is not to bad. I wish you lived around me, I would have you cut mine.

No lawn outfit should worry about you. After all how far can you travel.

Good Job and Good Luck.

[PAPS]

Anyone with a respectable landscaping business would not call you a scrub. To me and most of the other guys on this site, we do not see you, or guys like you, as "competition". Chances are most of the clients you would encounter probably are not all that serious about there yards, and probably would not be able to afford the "going" rates on landscaping and grounds maintenance services. When I started out, i was like you... $15 -$20 a cut, i was looking for some spending money every week. However, i was not looking to make $8-10 an hr, you can make that anywhere, your in business now...

[plow kid]

I got to agree with Jodi Also, it makes no sence to flog a dead horse.~NaTe

[PrimeGreen Lawn]

Hey I'll make it easier for you to make $8 to $10 bucks/hr......WORK FOR ME! ;) Thats what I start my guys at anyway. It'll save you the trouble of running your operation. Just kidding.......sounds like you have high hopes of succeeding in this business, but as far as your equipment goes, you get what you paid for. I'm sure ALL of us in here learned that in one way or another. Think of buying USED commercial equipment in the future, save a few thousand bucks...... Anyway....just don't be a low-baller, for the same reasons as stated above. Like many here, I quit my great paying desk job (State Trooper) to do this work full time to support my family. Just think of these things when you make your rate of $15-$20 bucks for a yard that takes 1 1/2 hours to do.

[corban]

I would have to guess that almost every single one of us started out in the very same position as you. I'd stack my WalMart weed eater and a can of gas that my dad filled for me on my mower and walked door to door around the neighborhood. Don't call yourself a scrub and don't think your undercharging. The only judge of what reasonable profit is yourself. In fact, that is what we all do. Every bid placed is saying, "This much mowing is worth $xx to me". If it is only worth $8/hr before costs to you, then do it. Next year or middle of this year when your mower keeps dying because of grass buildup and it's 95 degrees out, you'll learn to charge more; a lesson that the rest of us had to learn and I myself am still learning to a point. Anyone upset with you for undercharging at this point is being unreasonable. A scrub is simply a professional in the making. May God bless you as you start your new business.

[Randy Scott]

Well, in the latest issue of Landscape Management magazine, their is a little survey on the last page about what companies charge for lawn mowing. And as the companies revenue increases the charge they apply for mowing becomes less. Meaning the bigger the company the less they charge to cut lawns.They obviously work off of volume. So you tell me who the lowballers really are? This is the case for every bracket increase except for one. The 1 million revenue to 5 million revenue. They actually jump higher than the average. Anyways, the companies that charge the most are the businesses that do less than $100,000 in revenue. The companies that charge the least are the ones doing over 5 million in revenue. The national average is $36.78 per hour. And this is just that, an average, apply your rates accordingly.
Anyways, I don't think any legit LCO will be competing with you BushHogBoy. You are going to take care of the customers that will never want to spend the money it takes to have an established LCO do their yards. No offense to you meant, actually, you will provide a niche in a market that needs to be filled. Have fun doing it and enjoy being a kid. Hopefully in time you will take your dreams and ideas and turn it into something bigger.

[landman]

If you are a serious LCO you have heavy expenses, Ins., gas, advertising, maintenance, repairs, supplies, phone, Etc. It cost our company approx. $40.00 per hour just to be in business. thats not wages included, so for $8.00 an hour profit you should really think where you want to be in the future and look over yor expenses. You could get a job for $8.00 an hour and not have the liability, and related expenses. Plus you'll be gauranteed a paychek every week.

[kenneth parsons]

Hey Eric,

First of all, I applaud you for your drive and motivation to learn from this forum. If you are only 15 and using dad's equipment, you aren't doing bad. Keep working hard, roll your profits over into your business and by the time you are out of high school in a couple of years, you'll be able to pay cash for a truck, ZTR, Trailer and all the 2-stroke you need. Always pay cash! Laugh all the way to the bank! You watch the pros in your area...where they start/finish, how they do things that seem to make them faster! Its like golf...hard to break a bad habit. Anyway time is money! As for the $$$, you really deserve $10 -15 per hour right now. Stick with it. I've been doing it every afternoon and on Saturdays for over 10 years and don't consider it work...I have too much fun. I currently have 37 accounts, nearly 50/50 bus/res. I put my wife through college with it. In 8 months, I'll retire from 20 years in the military with great benefits and let me tell you, no one is going to give you anything, you gotta be a go getter day after day. One day you'll be the LCO you wanna be! I'm going to 90 accounts in 2003! Solo!

[SLS]

Just remember this BushHogBoy:

Be sure to save some of that profit in case a customers window (auto or home) gets broken...and God forbid someones kid loses an eye....they will expect you to pay for it.

I don't think liability insurance is an option if you are a minor.

In this 'litigation-happy' world we now live in you can't be too careful. If someone gets hurt they could try to take your parents or legal guardian to court.

And watch those fingers and toes around those whirring blades...sometimes health insurance policies are just looking for a way not to cover you. If you are 14 you may want your parent or guardian to check into it.

Not trying to scare (or deter) you....just give you some reality to consider...and some insight into why professional LCO's take INSURANCE very seriously.

Be very, very careful! And enjoy being young as time slips away WAY too quickly. Good luck to you. :)

Peace.

[lamblawnscaping]

Landman,

Just curious how you got $40 per hour to be in business, I have been working on what it costs me per hour to be in business and don't have it quite figured out yet.

[southside]

Simple rule of thumb, you don't go into business to make wages
for your self.You can do that sitting behind the counter of your local 7/11. You go into business to make GOOD money. If you
don't then there's no point in starting up at all.

[landman]

Lamblawnscaping

That's the # the accountant came up with. That's ins, phones, advo, secretary, cost of doing bus (lisc. & permits) mortgage on our building and office, utilities, gas etc. Maintenance and equiptment are extras to that, plus wages. We currently occupy 2 storage yards (3000 sq ft at our shop and an additional one a few blocks away about 2000 sq ft) and an garage/warehouse/office about 4100 sq ft. we run 8 trucks and trailers plus backhoe, tree equiptment and othe excavating eqpt. so when you have big toys you have big overhead.

[_GUNNER_8]

Originally posted by 65hoss
This thread was started just to cause problems.

I do agree with TGCummings. If you think you can make money at $8-$10 per hour cutting you have no idea what expenses are. Also, if you think using the cheap equipment keeps your cost down, YOUR WRONG. They wear out faster and your constantly spending money to fix or replace.

I tend to agree with hoss, If you cannot afford $300 trimmer and $200 blower say $1500 for use mower and wanting to start your own business something wrong, that cheap stuff cause more headaches then worth the time.Go work for local company learn in's and out's there is lot more to it then you think.

[Craig Jones]

Eric:

This is not really answering your question of being a scrub but some experience when my son started his business. He actually started with the same model rider (Toro 8-32) you did, my father gave it to him. Yes it does have a nice quality of cut but soon found the rigors of heavy mowing took its toll on the machine. Ours had a tecumseh engine on it and was always having problems with the carb, the grass shoot clogging up in deep grass and other things. We still have the mower but do not use it commercially. I think the big eye opener to my son was the purchase of a commercial mower and the increase in productivity. The rider limits what you can do on hills, and other things. Being a young kid he did not know how much to charge and I think that is the biggest mistake when starting out. Also, folks see a young kid and try to take advantage of them sometimes. As he got older and wiser, he charged more and found out he was loosing money by charging too little for jobs. I had to put the business in my name in order to get licensing, insurance, etc. He learned the hard way when he sent a rock through a window and he had to pay for it out of his own pocket.

What he did not factor in was the cost of the truck, trailer, equipment upkeep and insurance, etc.. A lot of that I had to subsidize since I was happy to see him start a business. Later on he found he had to raise his prices and lost a lot of the customers since they wanted it done cheap and did not want to pay for quality.

Good luck in your endeavor.

[awm]

of course yaw know i disagree with the necessity of buying high end trimmers etc. i get good service out o my craftsman etc.
to me the key is in the mix ,both for longivaty and less trouble togivin.had my choice id pick mostly stihl stuff. but then id have constantly watch it for theft. as it is i got some good stihl an echo equipment for time consuming jobs .but the public dont see it
on my truck. in fact they dont see nothin ,cause i keep it covered w a heavy cover .imade it with carpet an coated itwith rubber.
so far no thefts with this method. if they get it i got another sears return that i average paying 40-45 bucks. later now yaw

[_GUNNER_8]

LOL awm you were trying to be funny right?

[lamblawnscaping]

landman,

Does that mean that the $40 per hour figure is split between 8 crews. If so I would say you are doing an awesome job of keeping overhead costs down. Thats only $5 per crew.

[TGCummings]

Originally posted by lamblawnscaping
landman,

Does that mean that the $40 per hour figure is split between 8 crews. If so I would say you are doing an awesome job of keeping overhead costs down. Thats only $5 per crew.

I'm pretty sure he means $40/man hour, i.e. a two man crew would earn $80/hour for the company...

[lamblawnscaping]

TGCummings,

I hope for landman's sake it does not cost him $40 per man hour to be in business (not including wages). If so what must he charge the customer after paying his employees and making a profit, $80 per man hour?

[1grnlwn]

BushHogBoy,

I would call someone who makes there living in a responsible business manner a Pro.

I would call someone who has a regular job and does it on the side a weekend warrior.

Scrubs? well thats for the people you think are hurting the image of the profession, for whatever reason (no tax, no shirt, low price, bicycle, etc) IMHO

[awm]

gunner ,i know it doesnt go with the majority of lcos.but i have to do what works best for me. the light craftsman w curved shaft is plenty for house trimming.for heavy clean up i have my choice between a ryobi and echo brush cutter. i had my whole front line stolen once and a few others along the way.so i dont leave anything out their that makes me not enjoy my lunch. the one thing that u might be helped by is the part about the mix being the secret to 2 cycles. stihl or echo 50-1 and high octane
an everything operates like pro stuff. not trying to talk u into it as its no difference to me what others do . just trying to help.
i also really appreciate a well made piece of equipmet an have stihl and echo that are only brought out when the going gets serious hard.later now

[_GUNNER_8]

amw, if works and you making money i guess thats all that matters,but saying stuff gets stolen, thats a little on you don't you think?Do you got racks for trimmers,blowers,ect....i don't know your area but if its in bad area why not inclosed trailor?i been in business for total of 9 years and i guess i'm lucky just had couple times things were stolen,but i'm not going go out buy craftman cause of my fears,screw that my guys WOULD KILL ME!!!!lol and i would hope that every owner here knows how to mix fuel and to put best gas in and best brand of oil.

[TGCummings]

lamb,

You're right. I went back and reread it and he did say $40 before profit, so I guess he must charge much more to make it. However, he has a high overhead establishment and if he's got several crews working he makes it up in volume.

Consider, if he's charging $50/hour to the customer and running 5 crews then each crew is bringing in $10/hour. So, without leaving the shop the crews are earning him $50/hour profit while they work for him.

That's a simplistic breakdown, of course, but you get the idea...

[FrankenScagMachines]

Thanks for the input guys. What I didn't state was that I DO intend to upgrade equipment once i get started and have money for payments. Maybe a walk behind and velky or something would be nice. I do want zero turn and a nicer heavier machine, but this is stuff given to me. I have a mower deck for the tractor too for backup but its only 32" and doesn't turn very tight so only for big areas (hire my little bro to help sometimes) or backup. The Toro does not give me any problems so far, i used it alot in fall to bag leaves and no troubles so far but i did put new rings in it. It's a B&S I/C engine, and it'll go through tall weeds fine. i have used it on our big steep hill no prob too. I'm not saying it's up to commercial mowing i'm just saying it ought to get me started. I have also thought again about prices, and decided this:
$20 minimum mowing, if it's an hour, it'll be $25, and $20 each additional hour. Bagging grass clippings add $5/hour, Leaves, add $10/hour. How's that? that price includes trimming too. That way it'll be at least $20 a cut and if an hour it's gonna run $25, and after that will be $20, so a two hour job will be $45. How's that? More/less???? I will be saving most of my take home money for more better equipment. and college. I won't be starting with many jobs, so maybe by the time i get more than a few i'll be affording a commercial WB. What is the easiest brand to use, cuts and stripes best, and is a real good price? this is another can of worms entirely, and i know theres alot of posts about them, but i want a cheaper used one that will be good and cut good and stripe good. I don't need warranty i do my own work. ( i charge $10-$15/hour to work on other people's equipment)
any more ideas/thoughts? what you've given so far helps really it does. It is so cool to have a place to ask the pros who've been there done that for a while, and know their stuff. It is such a help to me, and i appreciate it. thanks so much,
Eric
BTW, the Toro goes 5.5mph and i got a 8 bushel catcher for it. does leaves great, and grass ok. the way it cuts you would really think a commercial mower had been there. good cut, good stripes really.

[awm]

gunner if you have never had more than that stolen.in this buisiness ,id say u in the minority. course i could be wrong.we had one lco in the past go so far as to paint every tool he had floresent blue.
terrible thing to do to a good tool.far as somebody laughing about my choice o trimmer. aint no big thang.
hope u luck holds on that equipment. later now.

[snow]

Originally posted by BushHogBoy
Thanks for the input guys. What I didn't state was that I DO intend to upgrade equipment once i get started and have money for payments. Maybe a walk behind and velky or something would be nice. I do want zero turn and a nicer... I have also thought again about prices, and decided this:
$20 minimum mowing, if it's an hour, it'll be $25, and $20 each additional hour. Bagging grass clippings add $5/hour, Leaves, add $10/hour.

My smallest account I get $18 for, it's a family friend,been going it since i started. It's my only account I strictly use a 21". From start to finish, mowing, blowing, trimming 1-2 times a month i'm done in 8-12 minutes. I have an account 2 houses down from that that's $35 and takes me 20-25 minutes. These prices are going up this year. No offense, but if your happy about making $8 profit an hour, sell your toro and get a job this summer.

Over this summer i worked 40+ hours a week at a gas station, and did my lawns friday in less than 2 hours. It helps buy me toys over these winter months when there's been one snow storm.


Bryan

[landman]

the figure is just for business maintenance and overhead. We run 4 maint crews, 1 excavating/sprinkler crew and 1 install crew. that figure is for the bills. I guess if you figured wages etc we would probably have to say that in actuallity it probably cost about $80.00 per hour per crew plus profit. Our excavating and install crew work on a diffrent scale as far as profit and operating expense due to the equiptment/ operators involved. also that figure of $40.00 per hr is based on a 50 hr week.

[65hoss]

I feel real lucky. To date, I have never had anything stolen. (knocking on wood) Although, I'm real picky about everything being locked down always.

[GreenStar]

yada,yada,yada these post are killing me! everyday the same thing how much, whats best, scrub this scrub that, do a search. you know for a bunch of professionals we sure bitc#, moan and repeat our selves alot!

[walker-talker]

Did somebody wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

MATT

[FrankenScagMachines]

sorry, but no one's making you read it or reply to it.

also, what i meant about the prices (latest post) is that is for a small city lawn. so if i did a small city lawn, and had to bag the leaves, it would be $30. prices will be subject to increase. Rural lawns will take on a whole new meaning as far as prices....
I was thinking something like a eXmark Metro or Metro HP 32" 15hp Kohler or Kawisaki?? May not even bother with a velky for small lawns so just the mower with a side catcher basket.
Thanks.

[landman]

I don't remember who asked me this but our actual labor rate is $37.50 per man/per hr All of our lawn crews have 3 or 4 men in the truck. Alot of our work is commercial/industrial and is flat rate per season (lawn Maint), extras are billed accordingly.

[TGCummings]

Hey Greenstar,

If you're bored of reading the same ol' thing every day ... do a search. :D

[GreenStar]

well i did a search on KOTEX but nothing came up. do you guy's remember the show seinfeld. it was a show about NOTHING. we could have a similar show based on lawnsite. i'm sorry but i have a real problem dealing with issues or taking advice from a kid who's ALMOST 15. criminy you have a cell phone and you pay the cable bill, what the heck is that. one day you'll know the feeling of not being able to make your bill's for the month. little advice kid, go work at mcdonalds and go buy a playstation. if you really want to participate on some type of forum i believe there's a britany spears fan forum. sorry guy's but it's getting me depressed.

[FrankenScagMachines]

Yeah, i'll bet it depresses a loser like you. If i were you, i'd be real worried about a kid in some place nowhere near you taking one step closer to independence and maturity....
Get a life *****, this is how most of the people on this site started out. It does not hurt you to just skip this message if you don't like it. If it really bothers you maybe you should keep away from here since theres so many threads like this. Maybe that would clean up the gene pool around here some. No one appreciates people like you who go around making deragatory comments like that.
I'm sorry you don't like it :cry: :cry: :cry: but, it seems like YOU need an attitude adjustment also :eek: jeez give me a break... lawnsite.com and world needs less idiots like you around. If you wanted lawnsite to have a good rap, maybe you'd be helpful to people and show kindness, that would be more welcoming to newcomers, and it would not look like the constantly arguing ripping each others heads off place that it is.

[lamblawnscaping]

Greenstar,

Maybe you should check out that britney spears forum, for someone at the ripe old age of 22 you seem awfully disgruntled. What age were you when you started your business? By the time bushhogboy reaches that age, do you think it is fair to say that he will be more knowledgable than you were, having learned from others on Lawnsite?.

If a 14 year old is seeking advice from the members of this forum, then I think that is fantastic. If the knowledge bushhogboy gains from this forum makes him operate in a more professional manner then that is one less person driving prices down, and one more person presenting a positive image of our industry. <B>That benefits you.</B>

As far as the search feature goes, it is a great feature, but does not compare to getting actual responses to a question that you, yourself asked. I think it is fair to say that just about every question about this business has been asked at one point, so why not just shut the forums down and make it strictly a searchable database.

You said you have a real problem taking advice from a 15 year old. I can't find where bushhogboy gave you any advice. I'll be happy to give you some though, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

I don't mean for this post to be an attack on you, but the purpose fo this site (apart from selling banner ads) is either to learn from others or to help others in the industry benefit from what you have learned. I don't see recommending a job at McDonalds and a Playstation as good advice.

[GreenStar]

well little guy, since you bring up maturity i dont think the phrase " get a life ***** " show's much maturity, even more so being a public forum. i bet if your mother saw your computer (the one she bought) she would smack the hell out of you. now little guy if you want to learn business do it at school, run the school store. i'm a firm believer in life's lessons but if you trully think your gaining an inch here i'm sorry to inform you your losing a yard. plain and simple your not a company man, you cant be without a company. buddy i dont think your murry mountain bike will pull an 18ft trailer. i could not and will not ever take or give advice to a person of your stature. you are a sheer mockery of the greens industry..... you are not competition, you are not a proffesional, you are not of legal age to drive. what imput could you have that will better my field of work. what agronomic or business background do you have to offer anyone here. imho lawnsite should have age restrictions. ( although most of us are childish at one time or another) membership should be screened. there should be a 7 day waiting period for all new members to post that way you can get all of your searches done and no one has to repeat post after post. oh and tuff guy i have a life, nice house an educated family and CABLE. so what i say to you is not " GET A LIFE *****" but "GET AN EDUCATION"

[awm]

man this better than the friday nite fights. gunner ,u an me
amatures next to these fellas:D . id encourage folks to tolerate the differences in each of us. gives flavor to life. stepping out o yaws buisiness now,have a good day an later.

[lamblawnscaping]

Well just when I was thinking what a fine young man bushhogboy might be had to go and use the B word. Oh well, he is 14 after all. I'm out of this.

[_GUNNER_8]

Originally posted by GreenStar
well little guy, since you bring up maturity i dont think the phrase " get a life ***** " show's much maturity, even more so being a public forum. i bet if your mother saw your computer (the one she bought) she would smack the hell out of you. now little guy if you want to learn business do it at school, run the school store. i'm a firm believer in life's lessons but if you trully think your gaining an inch here i'm sorry to inform you your losing a yard. plain and simple your not a company man, you cant be without a company. buddy i dont think your murry mountain bike will pull an 18ft trailer. i could not and will not ever take or give advice to a person of your stature. you are a sheer mockery of the greens industry..... you are not competition, you are not a proffesional, you are not of legal age to drive. what imput could you have that will better my field of work. what agronomic or business background do you have to offer anyone here. imho lawnsite should have age restrictions. ( although most of us are childish at one time or another) membership should be screened. there should be a 7 day waiting period for all new members to post that way you can get all of your searches done and no one has to repeat post after post. oh and tuff guy i have a life, nice house an educated family and CABLE. so what i say to you is not " GET A LIFE *****" but "GET AN EDUCATION"

I couldn't agree more with this post,and someone said "who are the lowballers? Big companies on average do charge less."Well i can not speak for others just myself,but we hold most of the big contracts in my area,and i have great relationship with my clients,most tell me who comes in and try's to low ball me, and usually its the guys we talk to at dealership, gasstation ect. act like they are our friends so when I find this out,I will go to their biggest account and bid it hardly anything for season to just teach them a leason,Do we like to do that,NO, but i will not tolerate guys coming in and saying "I'll do it for half what he is doing it for", or "I 'll cut it for free first time"just to get their feet in door. Some will wonder how can we bid account low like that?well we have big contracts so its not going to break us on 1 account, and it teaches them a good leasson that if we get into a bidding war WE are going to come out on top.

[AL Inc]

Guys- How many of us knew what "real life" was when we were 15 and living with Mom and Dad? I sure as hell didn't, I was clueless. I started mowing when I was 10, so I knew how to work hard but wasn't expecting the ass kicking that is life. I'll never forget when I bought my first house, my father was helping me paint and I said "You know what Dad, you really weren't full of s*** all those years!" He got a good laugh out of that. I guess I'm trying to say that we were all in BushHog Boy's shoes at one time and he should be congratulated for being here and asking questions instead of doing drugs or spray painting a building. The kid also seems pretty handy (pics on Plowsite). I have friends that don't know how to use a screwdriver. Just my .02 Mike

[_GUNNER_8]

Originally posted by AL Inc
Guys- How many of us knew what "real life" was when we were 15 and living with Mom and Dad? I sure as hell didn't, I was clueless. I started mowing when I was 10, so I knew how to work hard but wasn't expecting the ass kicking that is life. I'll never forget when I bought my first house, my father was helping me paint and I said "You know what Dad, you really weren't full of s*** all those years!" He got a good laugh out of that. I guess I'm trying to say that we were all in BushHog Boy's shoes at one time and he should be congratulated for being here and asking questions instead of doing drugs or spray painting a building. The kid also seems pretty handy (pics on Plowsite). I have friends that don't know how to use a screwdriver. Just my .02 Mike

Al that was a good post, your right just hadn't looked at it that way.

[FrankenScagMachines]

sorry i had to raise my voice and use some french but hey you got me pissed what can i say. personally i think you need to be removed from LS by a moderator. You are not helpful at all. These others have a point, that LS is helpful to me which is in turn helpful to everyone else, as it presents a more professional image and I can better my prices and services, etc. It seems like no one else here really appreciates you and your mouth. I really have no more to say to you except I never gave you any advice other than get your @$$ outta this conversation!