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View Full Version : Current pics of the mall lawn in DC?


Barefoot James
10-30-2008, 10:21 PM
Does ANYBODY have some current pics of the mall lawn in DC that looked great this spring - but how did it hold upover the summer? Did they reseed this fall? If so, is it roped off right now - and if it has been reseeded and is roped off I'm sure it is perfect again so how did it look before this falls reseed - ANY PICS????:usflag:

ICT Bill
10-31-2008, 10:24 AM
someone called into the office that had visited the mall recently and said it did not look so good, a little better than the other panels but not so hot. I don't know if safelawns is keeping up with the site or not, apparently not.

It is a 3 year program so it will not be renovated again until fall 2010. I hear everyone moved the soccer games over to that panel becuse it was in such nice shape, lots of compaction from the constant use.

That is the issue with all of the mall, compaction. Lots and lots of people play and walk all over it every day. The panel that was done organically had tanks and missle launchers on it right before the renovation, but that kind of thing is on there all of the time. There was a couple of concerts there this summer and plywood was left on the ground for over 2 weeks. It is almost an impossible place to grow grass

I'll see if I can get down there next week

Prolawnservice
10-31-2008, 10:53 AM
I don't know which panel is which. Maybe bill can help with that, but, to me it seemed like six panels , the layout was three and three, the middle panel was obviously abused. All were compacted but the middle two panels looked the worst by far.

treegal1
10-31-2008, 10:55 AM
wow, after all that hype, looks like a refurb at this point.

Prolawnservice
10-31-2008, 11:01 AM
These are the panels to the right if you facing the washington monument.

Prolawnservice
10-31-2008, 11:08 AM
Last two panels, these of course were to the left of the monument, closest to the air and space museum. In the last pic you can see the stone pathway that separated all the panels I took most of the pics from that middle pathway.

CHARLES CUE
10-31-2008, 09:31 PM
I don't know which panel is which. Maybe bill can help with that, but, to me it seemed like six panels , the layout was three and three, the middle panel was obviously abused. All were compacted but the middle two panels looked the worst by far.

Its the top pitcher it would be the middle panel off 7th st in front of air and space. believe me the photo that was put on here made it look good but it wasnt most of the grass was poa.they watered it with a hydro seeder a lot of wash. and once they take the fence down the traffic is over whelming

Charles Cue

Barefoot James
10-31-2008, 10:22 PM
The panels are the first three in front of the capital building - the pics on this site are not those panels.

Prolawnservice
11-01-2008, 03:46 AM
They are pics of all six panels, safelawns told me it was the panels behind the air and space building that is where these photos were taken. The grass directly in front of the capital building is not separated into panels its one piece of lawn. Safelawns also told me it had been abused and was trashed which would also lead me to believe the panels I photoed were correct. The lady I spoke to even described the grass pattern where there was a tarp placed on either side of the panel with only a path of green grass left that was between them, you can clearly see this in the first pic.

Barefoot James
11-01-2008, 11:00 AM
MY Bad.

I guess the capital building is closer than it looks?

When were these photo's taken. Thanks so much for shareing.

Prolawnservice
11-01-2008, 11:54 AM
Monday 10/27/08 around lunch time:)

BrandonV
11-02-2008, 09:20 AM
maybe they need to get someone like grasspave or belgaurd has a product too to come in a install their system to help w/ the compaction. that and bermuda grass.

DUSTYCEDAR
11-03-2008, 10:19 PM
wow what a mess guess its take 2

ICT Bill
11-04-2008, 11:04 AM
If you are standing at the capital and looking at the washington monument, there is first a parking area and street then the panels start
the first one was done as it is always done, the second was done with bradfield organics fert and the third was done by Todd and Pogo's group, it was a total refurb that went down 12 to 14 inches with tons and tons of compost mixed in

It is a very difficult place to grow anything, no irrigation and it neglected and abused 365 days of the year. We just met with the architect of the capitol that takes care of the grounds there. I would have been ashamed if it was my job to take care of the place, we walked around it for an hour or so.

My first question after looking at it for a while was "what is your budget?" the answer was much lower than I thought, the nations capitol and they hardly have the budget to cut the grass let alone do major renovation work.

treegal1
11-04-2008, 01:30 PM
If you are standing at the capital and looking at the washington monument, there is first a parking area and street then the panels start
the first one was done as it is always done, the second was done with bradfield organics fert and the third was done by Todd and Pogo's group, it was a total refurb that went down 12 to 14 inches with tons and tons of compost mixed in

It is a very difficult place to grow anything, no irrigation and it neglected and abused 365 days of the year. We just met with the architect of the capitol that takes care of the grounds there. I would have been ashamed if it was my job to take care of the place, we walked around it for an hour or so.

My first question after looking at it for a while was "what is your budget?" the answer was much lower than I thought, the nations capitol and they hardly have the budget to cut the grass let alone do major renovation work.

you had better believe that I and many of the other folks here would have and could have done a better job!!!! barefoot, growingdeeproots, organicgogo, I would have even expected better results from deep green!!!, my worst lawn is 10X better than that.

I would have figured some one would have spent some more time and or resources to get the "test lawn " going great instead of whah whah whah......

budget??? is that including the profit from showing your stuff/ methods work???? or is there a royalty per giggle???

phasthound
11-04-2008, 08:15 PM
My first question after looking at it for a while was "what is your budget?" the answer was much lower than I thought, the nations capitol and they hardly have the budget to cut the grass let alone do major renovation work.

Yeah, our representatives have much more important things to spend our money on. :angry:

DUSTYCEDAR
11-04-2008, 08:21 PM
Not a good showing bummer

growingdeeprootsorganicly
11-05-2008, 08:10 PM
soil has already been amended right? do they have a budget for seed? i mean come on!


why are they not up keeping it? safe lawns and others? no body what to flip the tab?

when i first heard they where going to do this i thought what great publicity for their company's and the industry................ what give's?

good luck bill..... sure you what the responsibility if you don't deliver ?

ICT Bill
11-05-2008, 09:15 PM
good luck bill..... sure you what the responsibility if you don't deliver ?
Gerry welcome back, I am not quite sure what you are asking here, e pluribus unum? thanks Gerry

You would not believe the abuse the mall gets, and no budget for kicking it up a notch. A lot of folks are trying to bring the mall to peoples attention but it is a difficult thing.

The national park service takes care of the panels, the architect of the capitol takes care of the property next to the capitol, while the smithsonian takes care of the panels that the national park service doesn't. meanwhile it was actually the EPA that approved the applications to the panels that the national park service controls, welcome to Washington

Gerry it is always so warm when you are signed on, thank you Gerry

ICT Bill
11-05-2008, 09:20 PM
The real issue on the site is, like every lawn and landscape company you need to be onsite more than once a year, every 4 to 6 weeks would be nice.

if you are not on site you cannot take care of the property, Todd is in CT, long haul for a customer complaint

Really unrealistic to renovate a property that is 10 hours away and expect to have a good to great result

Gerry might try though, right gerry....... COME ON DOWN !!!!

growingdeeprootsorganicly = Gerry

growingdeeprootsorganicly
11-05-2008, 09:34 PM
i guess i'll be referring to you as Pinocchio for now on? ok?

since you and your products are straight out of the fantasy workshop

ICT Bill
11-05-2008, 09:44 PM
Thanks Gerry, you have never used any of our products GERRY, how could you possibly comment ????

here it is straight out of New York, call me I'll give you over 300 lawn and landscape companies to call that love the product.

I do believe I am done, thanks for playing................GERRY

GAME OVER.........TILT

work smarter not harder

growingdeeprootsorganicly
11-05-2008, 10:02 PM
gee......do you have that picture on loop?

ICT Bill
11-05-2008, 11:42 PM
gee......do you have that picture on loop?

I'm done, thanks for playing though, it has been a pleasure, when you have something to contribute it would be nice.

If you could back off just a bit and contribute.....I do believe there are several lurkers out there that would be helped

In your area what are the things that you have to overcome with your program?

If you could give us some insight into your brewer it would be great

Are you doing vermicompost for your brews? do you have worms yourself?

Prolawnservice
11-06-2008, 09:04 AM
Bill,

Are you Implying Gerry Baker, Miller, or Garcia?????????

My guess is Garcia as far as Charlie is concerned:) which leads me to, Why is that something to mock???? I have my problems with some hippies not all but some, but I don't see where this is going.

I guess the forum has been a little slow lately so if you two want to have a break dance fight get out the video cameras. pssst.... OH no he dinnet!!!!!!:waving:

growingdeeprootsorganicly
11-06-2008, 09:14 AM
. pssst.... OH no he dinnet!!!!!!:waving:


OH........yes he did!:cool2:




i think you need one of those secrete decoder rings you find in the cereal box's to decipher bill input

DUSTYCEDAR
11-06-2008, 09:38 AM
Its raining today use the waxy cardboard to bust a move on

NattyLawn
11-06-2008, 11:03 PM
If Charlie is or is not Gerry, you have to admit that Bill putting that together is pretty damn clever.

ICT Bill
11-06-2008, 11:18 PM
who cares, the point is to talk about things we have experimented with, are having fun with, making forward progress with and hopefuly making a profit with

JDUtah
11-07-2008, 12:36 AM
LOL for the searies of posts.

I agree here...
"who cares, the point is to talk about things we have experimented with, are having fun with, making forward progress with and hopefuly making a profit with"

growingdeeprootsorganicly
11-07-2008, 06:44 AM
124963bust a move!!!

growingdeeprootsorganicly
11-08-2008, 02:12 PM
was this just a publicity stunt? thats what i'm concluding... todd h from safe lawns is a pretty smart guy right? there were other involved...pogo? their close right?
why take on a project that you know you cant upkeep/manage?:dizzy:

yes those panels get abused some months more then others but simple things like seeding go a long way or is that stepping it up a notch too much?

DUSTYCEDAR
11-08-2008, 03:10 PM
AS I LAY ME LEFT HAND ON THE ORGANIC LAWN CARE MANUALAND JUST SHAKE MY HEAD:confused:

ICT Bill
11-08-2008, 06:31 PM
I was just down there today and took a couple shots here is one. I have no idea what all these folks are doing. I just pulled up, illegally parked, walked over and took some shots

I've got to run to a dinner party but will post some more tomorrow
Directly behind me is 7th street
Yopu can see the marks where they have laid plywood or something down, it was a pretty nice day and this place was jamm'n

Tim Wilson
11-15-2008, 09:34 PM
If Charlie is or is not Gerry, you have to admit that Bill putting that together is pretty damn clever.

I'm absolutely dumfounded and mixed up. Charlie is Gerry Garcia? I thought something weird was going on! He tried telling me he was Jerry Rubin but I already know that's who I am. He can't be Gerry Miller. He was whacked three months ago.:dizzy:

JDUtah
11-15-2008, 10:07 PM
Can I be Mr. Clean?

growingdeeprootsorganicly
11-16-2008, 12:55 PM
immortal words from the great beetle juice....................WHO ME?

growingdeeprootsorganicly
11-16-2008, 02:20 PM
gerry garcia???????

brings back a funny memory.

i was at a JERRY garcia band show in the early ninety's on Halloween.

saw a kid wearing a knock off tye dye shirt that said the GERRY GARCIA BAND?
bet he felt stupid once somebody told him gerry is spelled with a J?:)

NattyLawn
11-16-2008, 07:18 PM
The real issue on the site is, like every lawn and landscape company you need to be onsite more than once a year, every 4 to 6 weeks would be nice.

if you are not on site you cannot take care of the property, Todd is in CT, long haul for a customer complaint

Really unrealistic to renovate a property that is 10 hours away and expect to have a good to great result

Gerry might try though, right gerry....... COME ON DOWN !!!!

growingdeeprootsorganicly = Gerry

I'm absolutely dumfounded and mixed up. Charlie is Gerry Garcia? I thought something weird was going on! He tried telling me he was Jerry Rubin but I already know that's who I am. He can't be Gerry Miller. He was whacked three months ago.:dizzy:


Tim,

The above post is what I was referring to.

Prolawnservice
11-16-2008, 09:33 PM
I can't believe no one caught this yet look at bill post closer, it spells geery not gerry:confused::laugh::laugh:

ICT Bill
11-16-2008, 10:07 PM
Just hav'n fun folks, life is too serious not to have fun

NattyLawn
11-16-2008, 11:55 PM
gerry garcia???????

brings back a funny memory.

i was at a JERRY garcia band show in the early ninety's on Halloween.

saw a kid wearing a knock off tye dye shirt that said the GERRY GARCIA BAND?
bet he felt stupid once somebody told him gerry is spelled with a J?:)

Sounds like a $5 lot shirt bought after eating some mushrooms and inhaling some hippie crack.

hobbsd
11-17-2008, 12:43 AM
I think its terrible that our nation's capital has the worst piece of turf in the nation.:cry::cry::cry:

ICT Bill
11-17-2008, 09:33 AM
I think its terrible that our nation's capital has the worst piece of turf in the nation.:cry::cry::cry:

I agree with you Hobbs, there is a push in DC to make a real effort to change patterns on the mall, they are trying to make one area the only area where you can have concerts and such, they will try to modify the walking habits as well as moving a few streets around that are a pain for pedestrians. The plans they are looking at will take years and lots of money.

You should see some of the areas around the capitol, truely a disgrace

Prolawnservice
12-07-2008, 04:49 PM
the first one was done as it is always done, the second was done with bradfield organics fert and the third was done by Todd and Pogo's group, it was a total refurb that went down 12 to 14 inches with tons and tons of compost mixed in

Any Idea how much compost was used?

After reading Dr. I's compost tea field guide, it clearly states applying more than 10 tons of compost per acre could result in compaction issues. Also I remember reading that compost will be of little benefit when not exposed to enough oxygen (14"?)

Barefoot James
12-07-2008, 07:52 PM
My memory is a little fuzzy but I think it was something like 200 yards 900 lbs per yard- est.), which is like 45 tons per acre (2 acres) - so maybe Dr I based her compaction theory off the DC project. However they also used lots of Humates and Gypsum as I recall from their DVD they sent me to see if I wanted to invest 200K++ to be a franchise - LOL . Dr I also serves on the safelawns board or is a consultant - but she does advise on this project. but I bet their SOM was more than 5%:rolleyes:

Tim Wilson
12-08-2008, 01:46 PM
10 tons per acre is diddley squat. My little dump carries 4 yards packed high with medium moisture compost. This weighs around 2.5 tons or 0.625 tons per yard.

There are (approx) 43,560 square feet per acre or
6,272,640 square inches

A yard of material = 46,565 cubic inches

To calculate how many yards of compost is required to cover one acre 1 inch thick with compost;
divide 6,272,640 by 46,656 = 134.4 yards

134.4 X 0.625 tons = 83.75 tons of compost to cover one acre 1 inch thick with compost.
Correct?

To cause compaction you'd need a heck of a lot. Who could ever afford that??

Math is not Elaine's (if she did say that) forte.
You need to be a farmer I quess.

JDUtah
12-08-2008, 05:04 PM
10 tons per acre is diddley squat. My little dump carries 4 yards packed high with medium moisture compost. This weighs around 2.5 tons or 0.625 tons per yard.

There are (approx) 43,560 square feet per acre or
6,272,640 square inches

A yard of material = 46,565 cubic inches

To calculate how many yards of compost is required to cover one acre 1 inch thick with compost;
divide 6,272,640 by 46,656 = 134.4 yards

Yep

134.4 X 0.625 tons = 83.75 tons of compost to cover one acre 1 inch thick with compost.
Correct?

By wet weight for a short ton yes. Approximately.

JDUtah
12-08-2008, 05:06 PM
PS, how does adding too much compost increase compaction? Seems that is completely opposite Bill's 6" compost 'suggestion'...

Prolawnservice
12-08-2008, 08:41 PM
OK here is what is says word for word, page-27 compost tea brewing manual 5th edition

"in the fall, after harvest, just before fall rains or snow occur, apply enough compost to improve the soil food web to desired ranges(1 to 5 tons/ac, or 12 tons/HA), but no more than 10 tons to the acre (too much compost in one application will compact and possibly become anaerobic)"

treegal1
12-08-2008, 09:05 PM
I have put in 50 yards in a 13 K area and it looks just fine, and at the farm we have now added almost 500 tons to 3 acres with out any issues, in one foot layers,,,,

Kiril
12-08-2008, 10:21 PM
OK here is what is says word for word, page-27 compost tea brewing manual 5th edition

"in the fall, after harvest, just before fall rains or snow occur, apply enough compost to improve the soil food web to desired ranges(1 to 5 tons/ac, or 12 tons/HA), but no more than 10 tons to the acre (too much compost in one application will compact and possibly become anaerobic)"

:nono::nono: That is not saying too much compost will cause compaction (eg. soil, as was implied). The way I read that is if too thick a layer of compost is applied, then the COMPOST could compact. All moot if you disc it in.

@ TG ... ya think a foot deep is just a LITTLE excessive. :dizzy:

treegal1
12-08-2008, 10:50 PM
not for root crops and spuds. on top of that its like a bank account for later

Prolawnservice
12-08-2008, 11:25 PM
Guess I misinterpreted it, that makes more sense Kiril. It's just after seeing the lawns first hand, I'm still trying to understand how it got sooooo bad. This theory was apparently incorrect.

Kiril
12-08-2008, 11:30 PM
Guess I misinterpreted it, that makes more sense Kiril. It's just after seeing the lawns first hand, I'm still trying to understand how it got sooooo bad. This theory was apparently incorrect.

Are you talking about the DC Mall lawns?

Smallaxe
12-09-2008, 11:30 AM
not for root crops and spuds. on top of that its like a bank account for later

The part of Florida I am familiar with, is all sand. Large particle sand - that I am told doesn't hold OM for very long.

Is this how you establish a decent baseline of OM (Compost @ 50 yds/13 k) in the sand? or could you have gotten by with less?

We have a few piles of lawn refuse sitting down there from last year. They are likely broken down into the soil by the time we get back, and chances are; the soil underneath the pile is no more likely to be dark looking and rich then the sand right next to it. Like an OM 'black hole'.
That's why I am curious about how that kind of sand and climate is handled. I haven't dealt with anything so non-soil like b4. :)

treegal1
12-09-2008, 02:34 PM
more or less strip off the top layer and of washed leached sand and then add the compost, mix to taste and serve.

also we have had no problems in the past (in our area) with DO2 at a depth of 24 inches, yes its lower but always above the lucky 7's, even with flood irrigation and standing water. the only exception is in compacted soil and then there is just so little air space that its has no nothing in it at all (gas wise). and I dont need no schooling to figure that out. clay soil thats a whole different animal. I have worked Ga red clay before and sand is so much easy-er. as far as the mall soil I did see the SFI soil test in the hands of Todd H before they started and my only comment was "better you than me dude" that stuff was all over and real poor to start with. my second concern for them was the compaction, yes they ripped the top layer of DIRT, but the lower layers are are still hard and hold water that would not flow all the way down into the lower layers, so no capillary action on top of a stagnate anaerobic layer. and little to no air. next part of the plan that was flawed IMO, the re entry time to the public was like 12 weeks or something that did not give the seeds time to build a root system that would allow some extra benefit to the soil structure, the lack of tea also came up. again IMO that little tea is not going to get the results that need to be achieved.

the biggest thing is that they dont ever use the chem lawn part with the trees( thank God for that) so the one center chunk is walked down and driven over every time that they do something(AKA, every week end and week.)

you can also see the strip in the middle that did not get the layer O death from the tents and rides, or what ever they did to the grass.

as far as compost they did not put all that they could on that site so then need a mulligan on that one, at the same time they did not take any soil away that i know of so the correct amount of compost IMO would look like an Indian burial mound for the first years. and stay warm all the time too.JK about the warm.LOL

they did what the could and maybe learned some things.................

Prolawnservice
12-09-2008, 06:37 PM
Are you talking about the DC Mall lawns?

yes, tree provided some insight

Prolawnservice
12-09-2008, 06:41 PM
they did what the could and maybe learned some things.................

Like not to advertise things until you know whats going to happen, that it will work and you are sure about it?? :waving: And since it kinda got screwed up, the least they could do would be support it, make sure they follow through, right?

Kiril
12-09-2008, 11:07 PM
Among the obvious reasons (compaction and related issues), the main reason I believe is hundreds of thousands of feet, vehicle traffic, etc... How can you realistically expect to maintain pristine (or any turf in decent shape) under those conditions? Heck, forget about the compaction, just the wear and tear on the turf alone is enough to kill it.

Smallaxe
12-10-2008, 09:18 AM
Instead of Astroturf in Lambeau Field now they have put down a synthetic weave that they planted grass into. The grass is held in place and protected by the weave. Lots of injuries on astroturf, particularily the knees, so we have been avoiding it and developing the grass strategy.

Perhaps the weave of, whatever it is, useful for heavy traffic areas. Personally they should just lay down the astroturf there in DC and be done with it.

NattyLawn
12-10-2008, 09:52 AM
Instead of Astroturf in Lambeau Field now they have put down a synthetic weave that they planted grass into. The grass is held in place and protected by the weave. Lots of injuries on astroturf, particularily the knees, so we have been avoiding it and developing the grass strategy.

Perhaps the weave of, whatever it is, useful for heavy traffic areas. Personally they should just lay down the astroturf there in DC and be done with it.

Denver, Philly and others use the Grassmaster. A huge sewing machine of sorts goes over the field and adds synthetic turf. Apparently it's very time consuming, and the groundskeeper in Philly said they use it between the hash marks at a conference last winter. It didn't offer any credits, so most people skipped out on a chance to him talk. Very interesting.

http://www.surfacesolutionsna.com/ddgrassmaster.asp

DUSTYCEDAR
12-10-2008, 10:59 AM
Nothing is going to do well without some further input and the mall looks like it was
wham bam thank you mam.

Barefoot James
12-10-2008, 05:08 PM
This looks like something DC should look into. If they want to have real grass and make it more durable this would basically be their only option - or they could go totally synthetic and have a great looking lawn, that they can park tanks, tents and toga parties on 24/7/365.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

phasthound
12-10-2008, 05:58 PM
This looks like something DC should look into. If they want to have real grass and make it more durable this would basically be their only option - or they could go totally synthetic and have a great looking lawn, that they can park tanks, tents and toga parties on 24/7/365.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

From what I understand the maintenance and repair costs of synthetic turf is quite high.

Barefoot James
12-10-2008, 06:17 PM
Installation is high about $6 to $10 per foot for grass like turf. Putting green turf is much higher $15/$20.

Maintanence is nothing - blow it off with a leaf blower, NO water, no feedings, no nothing. Should last 15 to 20 years and since it is infilled with sand and rubber it should be very durable. Have you ever seen synthetic tee boxes on a golf course (driving range) they get hit off with golf irons in the same 2 ft area 100's of thousands of shots before they start to wear. So just some regular top dressings of new sand/rubber mix - and sweeping and regualr blowing off and it would hold up nicely. In terms of repair they just have to laydown anothr piece and sew it and put in new infill. I would imagine the only probs they might have would be from cigs and burns - but should be minimal. check out your local college or pro fields - these things are pretty tough - as you recall from my pics I have one in my front yard.
I'm sure DC could get a good price probably around 200K per acre. This would pay for itself in a few years.

Tim Wilson
12-10-2008, 06:58 PM
Is there a traditionally (chemically) maintained lawn in the DC mall which has comparitive traffic which has kept up and does look presentable:confused:

Barefoot James
12-10-2008, 07:40 PM
No all the grass areas in the center of the mall are in pathetic shape. if they want green they need to look at other options - like concrete and paint or synthetic/grass blend or synthetic grass period. I think synthetic grass is really the only option given the traffic and fact that they have to use the area for tank shows, tents and toga parties (ie lots of events with lots of feets). They just use this area of DC for lots of stuff so you have to think outside of this forum because obviously organics or chems are not working so punt and JUST ADMITT IT. it can't be done unless they try the synthetic grass blend - maybe that might work. Who knows - pure grass does not work. Paul Tukey are you reading this enlighten us all???? Maybe if they kept the tents, tanks andplywood off - you say - I say still would look bad! Too much traffic.:usflag::usflag::usflag::cry:

JDUtah
12-10-2008, 09:11 PM
Maybe those 'parking nets?' Tree used to help with compaction... but you still have wear on the actual plant like Kiril mentioned...

DUSTYCEDAR
12-11-2008, 12:11 AM
FAKE GRASS? isnt that carpet?
i bet the chea pet company could do it.

growingdeeprootsorganicly
12-11-2008, 01:16 PM
again i feel like safe lawns attempt was nothing more then a publicity stunt? what kind of renovations has no follow up maintenance? yes it brought attention to natural turf care but did it prove it can work? that was the wrong site IMO... as barefoot james had mentioned, seems like safe lawns did it to sell franchises?????200k? wow! can somebody tell me why there was no follow up maintenance?:confused:

regardless natural or synthetic care, with all the foot traffic/events with no recovery time/proper maintenance the area will never be perfect?

the link to DD grass master matt had posted might be just what the doctor ordered for that situation? still have real grass with the strength of synthetic fiber blended in to combat ware and tare? but i guess it all comes down to cost......

ICT Bill
12-11-2008, 07:54 PM
again i feel like safe lawns attempt was nothing more then a publicity stunt?

NO REALLY, say it isn't so...........of course it is. The reason it is not maintained is that safelawns is in CT the other is the mall won't allow anything done on it that is not done on the other panels

It is a test plot to see if the renovation will hold up to the drastic conditions on the mall. There is a control and 2 other plots that is how trials are done. It either works, kind of or not at all.

JDUtah
12-11-2008, 08:45 PM
again i feel like safe lawns attempt was nothing more then a publicity stunt? what kind of renovations has no follow up maintenance? yes it brought attention to natural turf care but did it prove it can work? that was the wrong site IMO... as barefoot james had mentioned, seems like safe lawns did it to sell franchises?????200k? wow! can somebody tell me why there was no follow up maintenance?:confused:

regardless natural or synthetic care, with all the foot traffic/events with no recovery time/proper maintenance the area will never be perfect?

the link to DD grass master matt had posted might be just what the doctor ordered for that situation? still have real grass with the strength of synthetic fiber blended in to combat ware and tare? but i guess it all comes down to cost......

Safelawns: "Let's publicly fail so we can sell more franchises!"

Me: I give Safelawn's marketing program more credit than that.

Sorry Charles, how in the world did you come to that conclusion??????????????? :confused::confused:

Publicity move to sell franchises? I think not. Negative publicity does not sell an investment... stocks go down not up when a company publically fails... so would the price of your franchise...

Bless them for having the balls to perform such an extreme test... and brunt the ridecule that could follow...

growingdeeprootsorganicly
12-12-2008, 09:52 AM
NO REALLY, say it isn't so...........of course it is. The reason it is not maintained is that safelawns is in CT the other is the mall won't allow anything done on it that is not done on the other panels

It is a test plot to see if the renovation will hold up to the drastic conditions on the mall. There is a control and 2 other plots that is how trials are done. It either works, kind of or not at all.

say it ain't soooo?:dizzy: so a amended soil with no further maintenance is supposed to hold up to the traffic at that site? O i see...won't let anything done unless it's done on the others? thought one was organic,one chem and the other? ok bill thanks for explaining it to me. you came through again:dizzy:


david, guess thats why they got their sale dvd out fast before a conclusion could be made at that site? yes...god bless them for having balls and no real chance at success.......so how did your program pan out this year?

NattyLawn
12-12-2008, 11:45 AM
Now, wouldn't it be a great selling point that you're company is doing a trial at the DC Mall? Wouldn't you want to be a part of that if you're buying a franchise and selling it to customers? Without the thread, I don't think there would be many prospective franchisees or their customers following up and seeing how things went.

Why would a company in CT try a test plot in DC? For the marketing aspect. Hell, we were contacted about a plot and Erik and Eric had the common sense to tell them no, and we're about 2 hours away. This thing was doomed from the start.

growingdeeprootsorganicly
12-12-2008, 04:47 PM
Safelawns:

Me: I give Safelawn's marketing program more credit than that.



:hammerhead:

JDUtah
12-12-2008, 06:35 PM
My program panned out very well, thank you for asking.

I still simply do not agree that any propganda is good selling propoganda.

Groomer
12-12-2008, 07:46 PM
Hell, its DC right? It should be synthetic, as in fake, as in an illusional. Symbolic.

Tim Wilson
12-12-2008, 08:04 PM
Isn't Safelawns that organization which has ambiguous wording on their website which tries to imply they are a charity or non-profit? Isn't Safelawns the site with that bogus compost tea homemade bucket brewer video who did not even bother to answer my email when I pointed this out to them? Why would anyone pay to be associated with them? Memberships up to 30 grand and God knows what else. $200,000 for a franchaise?? For what?

JDUtah
12-12-2008, 08:50 PM
Hell, its DC right? It should be synthetic, as in fake, as in an illusional. Symbolic.

that's lol. :)

growingdeeprootsorganicly
12-15-2008, 10:23 AM
Isn't Safelawns that organization which has ambiguous wording on their website which tries to imply they are a charity or non-profit? Isn't Safelawns the site with that bogus compost tea homemade bucket brewer video who did not even bother to answer my email when I pointed this out to them? Why would anyone pay to be associated with them? Memberships up to 30 grand and God knows what else. $200,000 for a franchise?? For what?

safe lawns was paul tukey's organization to start. last year he partnered with todd harrington formerly of harringtons organicare lawn/landscaping to form
safe lawns & landscapes. the franchise buys you access to THEIR fert, bottled CT?,amendments,name, bargain at 200 k?:dizzy:

if you go to their site safe lawns.org they have a streaming video of the DC renovation

the area sure looks nice from their perspective...video footage dated sept 07 to april 08

Barefoot James
12-15-2008, 02:36 PM
The day before they opened it to the public it looked fantastic. But the tanks tents and toga parties did them in. One of the past posts on this thread even mentioned some event required them to lay down plywood on the whole area - which totally wiped out all the grass (you can see the outline). Why in the world would they issue a permit which allowed them to do that? To even give them a fair shot they should have only allowed regular foot traffic and maybe a tent to be set up over a weekend but never allow any sort of cover over it - like plywood. heck even an occassional tank to be driven over it probably would not hurt it too bad - unless they started turning or doing doughnuts in the tank. The weight displacement on tank treads is minimal - less than a heavy mans foot print. A 400 pound man spinning on his own feet would do more damage than a tank rolling straight over a lawn.

Why? :hammerhead:Why? :hammerhead:Why? :hammerhead:
You think the government will bail out their lawn:laugh: