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View Full Version : Pond dreding in Oakland, MI


vkulesh
11-04-2008, 04:53 PM
IF any of you work on pond digging in Metro Detroit area, can you give me an idea how much you would charge to dredge a 50 by 120 pond. It is about 3 ft deep right now, and I am looking to have it dug to about 10ft in the center. Thanks in advance.

Dirt Digger2
11-04-2008, 05:48 PM
draining the water?

if not then you will need a long reach

Gravel Rat
11-04-2008, 06:07 PM
Can you get around the whole pond with a machine ?

Any way you slice it you will be in for some big money.

Dirtman2007
11-04-2008, 06:22 PM
The pond King has arrived... LOL

For best results you need to completely empty the pond. This fish will die for the digging anyways so there's really no way to save them.

Few questions
Do you have a place to dispose of the muck?
Does it need to be trucked or just pushed away?

Your looking at about 1600 yards of dirt to get rid of, can it just be thrown behind the dam and wasted that way.


I could take a regular 210 trackhoe in dig it and lay it all up on the shore in about 12 hours or less.


I've got a big pond dredging job to start on this month, it's about a 4 acre pond that needs the head section dredged, couple thousand yards. I'll be using two 210 size machines and my big mud mats, the muds 8' deep in some spots! We also had to drain the pond down about 7'.

I love playin in mud
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee145/Letsdig18/002-7.jpg

P.Services
11-04-2008, 07:13 PM
if your in oakland county the first thing i would be doing is looking into a permit. one may be needed but you better hope and pray its not because your going to jump through hoops for ever to get one.

or if you want me to do it for you i will handle all that stuff and give you a price. i just dug a good size pond, still have to finish it up next week.

P.Services
11-04-2008, 07:14 PM
dirtman wait till you get that big boy stuck!!!

Dirt Digger2
11-04-2008, 07:32 PM
its nearly impossible to get a trackhoe or backhoe stuck.....i said nearly....i didn't say it is impossible though

Dirtman2007
11-04-2008, 07:33 PM
if your in oakland county the first thing i would be doing is looking into a permit. one may be needed but you better hope and pray its not because your going to jump through hoops for ever to get one.

or if you want me to do it for you i will handle all that stuff and give you a price. i just dug a good size pond, still have to finish it up next week.

I NC we have a loop hole where if it is an existing pond you can dredge it out without having to get a permit, get in and get out. It classifies as being maintenance for the pond.


I know my limits on the excavators. I've never got one stuck and it's been deeper mud than in the picture! Came in the door once:dizzy: I had to get out the mini excavator one day after my helper buried it in the woods. The mud was level with the floorboard. It was in easy but I was able to wiggle it out under it's own power. It was nasty!!

vkulesh
11-04-2008, 07:38 PM
draining the water?

if not then you will need a long reach

There is no fish so I can probably drain it. Although there is a lot of muck so I am not sure if there is a good easy way of draining it. Do you have some ideas for a good setup to drain it?

vkulesh
11-04-2008, 07:47 PM
if your in oakland county the first thing i would be doing is looking into a permit. one may be needed but you better hope and pray its not because your going to jump through hoops for ever to get one.

or if you want me to do it for you i will handle all that stuff and give you a price. i just dug a good size pond, still have to finish it up next week.

I'll take a quote.
The muck and dirt will both stay on the property.
There are 4 huge willows that will need to be cut down (I am getting quotes on that too) but other than that there should be no problem getting access to the pond.
What info do you need from me?

P.Services
11-04-2008, 07:56 PM
dont bother getting the trees taken out leave them there and save your money. its nothing for a excavator to pull them out, it makes it easier because you can reach up into the tree and get some leveage to help "pop" the root ball out.

vkulesh
11-04-2008, 07:57 PM
dont bother getting the trees taken out leave them there and save your money. its nothing for a excavator to pull them out, it makes it easier because you can reach up into the tree and get some leveage to help "pop" the root ball out.

Even if they are 50ft tall?

P.Services
11-04-2008, 07:59 PM
when are you looking to do this? this winter or next summer?

what town is it in? what major cross roads?

is this pond part of or connected to wetlands or a river basin?

was this a natural pond or was it originally dug by man?

how far away are the spoils going?

P.Services
11-04-2008, 08:03 PM
Even if they are 50ft tall?

trust me 50' is no problem, they will be down in under 2 minutes each. i have made the mistake of cutting them down first and then you have to dig all around the root ball in order to get it out. its just to much work when i can push it down and carry it away.

Dirt Digger2
11-04-2008, 08:06 PM
a 50 foot tree is no problem for a 15-20 ton trackhoe as long as you know what you are doing

as far as draining you will want to get a big pump then damn the inflowing stream, and keep the pump running to divert the water, or dig a diversion ditch...you should easily be able to dig all the mud out in a long day...if it is a spring fed stream then you want to get a big enough pump to keep up with the flow

then again we don't get into a whole lot of pond work so Chris might have a better answer for you...we have done pond work but on a smaller scale...we typically stick with "dry" work

Dirt Digger2
11-04-2008, 08:07 PM
make sure to grab pictures though if you get the job

vkulesh
11-04-2008, 08:11 PM
when are you looking to do this? this winter or next summer?

It mostly depends if I can get the price within my budget. Ideally I would like it done as soon as possible.

what town is it in? what major cross roads?
Oakland Twp., Stoney Creek and Adams roads.

is this pond part of or connected to wetlands or a river basin?
We have a couple acres of wetlands on the property, so my yes.

was this a natural pond or was it originally dug by man?
I think it was dug but I can not tell you when and how. I have no clue.

how far away are the spoils going?
next to the pond. The dirt goes west of the pond and muck to the north of the pond (I intend to use it to build up the vegetable gardens).

P.Services
11-04-2008, 08:17 PM
it doesnt sound like it has a steam going into it so i would say pump it dry and keep it dry and start digging, you will get through the muck eventual and hit hard ground then start going down.

12 hours to have it bailed..... maybe..... but i would bet it would take longer then that.
50 is not very wide but just on the hair of being to wide to throw it out in one pass. if the dirt is getting hauled any distance the most efficient way is going to be to dig it and put it right into a haul truck. id its getting spread around the area then digging it and pushing it out with a d61p or such would be a very effective way to move it all fast.

vkulesh
11-04-2008, 08:55 PM
it doesnt sound like it has a steam going into it so i would say pump it dry and keep it dry and start digging, you will get through the muck eventual and hit hard ground then start going down.

12 hours to have it bailed..... maybe..... but i would bet it would take longer then that.
50 is not very wide but just on the hair of being to wide to throw it out in one pass. if the dirt is getting hauled any distance the most efficient way is going to be to dig it and put it right into a haul truck. id its getting spread around the area then digging it and pushing it out with a d61p or such would be a very effective way to move it all fast.

Well there is a small stream from the wetland area going into the pond, though I do not know how much water it supplies.

P.Services
11-04-2008, 09:01 PM
thats not good news for a permit, the deq can be a royal pita when a wetland or stream is involved.

unless you dont have any one around maybe the deq just doesnt need to know about it.

Dirtman2007
11-04-2008, 09:02 PM
a 50 foot tree is no problem for a 15-20 ton trackhoe as long as you know what you are doing

as far as draining you will want to get a big pump then damn the inflowing stream, and keep the pump running to divert the water, or dig a diversion ditch...you should easily be able to dig all the mud out in a long day...if it is a spring fed stream then you want to get a big enough pump to keep up with the flow

then again we don't get into a whole lot of pond work so Chris might have a better answer for you...we have done pond work but on a smaller scale...we typically stick with "dry" work


We use siphons to drain our ponds, it's works on gravity and it requires no fuel to run. Of course you must have fall or a pond dam for it to work, this type of system is useless for ponds that are just holes in the ground.

If Pumping is required you really don't need that big of a pump to pump that small of a pond down (depending on how much run into it) A couple 3" gas pumps will pull it down in a day or so. I think my 3" pumps will pump 15-18,000gallons and hour.

vkulesh
11-04-2008, 09:05 PM
thats not good news for a permit, the deq can be a royal pita when a wetland or stream is involved.

unless you dont have any one around maybe the deq just doesnt need to know about it.

Well, Picasso, do you want to email me a range of $$ that you think this job will take (permits aside)? Just email it to me

P.Services
11-04-2008, 09:10 PM
i can give a ballpark price that i cant be held to because so much is unknow and unseen. any one else on this site can give you a number also because we all know the same. but just to give you an idea i can shoot you one. or i can get your adress and run down as soon as i get a open day and take a look at it and give you a estimate.

what city?

vkulesh
11-04-2008, 09:22 PM
i can give a ballpark price that i cant be held to because so much is unknow and unseen. any one else on this site can give you a number also because we all know the same. but just to give you an idea i can shoot you one. or i can get your adress and run down as soon as i get a open day and take a look at it and give you a estimate.

what city?

Oakland Twp, at Adams and Stoney Creek roads. Give me a ballpark number. I am not going to hold you or anybody else to it.

P.Services
11-04-2008, 09:30 PM
is that your place right in front of the intersection?

you are in the wide open with very few close neighbors so thats a good thing.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Oakland+Township&state=MI&address=Adams+Rd+%26+Stoney+Creek+Rd&zipcode=48363&country=US&latitude=42.77589&longitude=-83.19838&geocode=INTERSECTION#a/maps/l::Adams+Rd+&+Stoney+Creek+Rd:Oakland+Township:MI:48363:US:42.77589:-83.19838:intersection:/m:hyb:12:42.77589:-83.19838:0:::::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e

vkulesh
11-04-2008, 09:41 PM
is that your place right in front of the intersection?

you are in the wide open with very few close neighbors so thats a good thing.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Oakland+Township&state=MI&address=Adams+Rd+%26+Stoney+Creek+Rd&zipcode=48363&country=US&latitude=42.77589&longitude=-83.19838&geocode=INTERSECTION#a/maps/l::Adams+Rd+&+Stoney+Creek+Rd:Oakland+Township:MI:48363:US:42.77589:-83.19838:intersection:/m:hyb:12:42.77589:-83.19838:0:::::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e

Try 1280 Harmon Road

P.Services
11-04-2008, 09:48 PM
this is just thinking it over quick.... im sure you could dig the hole in a day but damming up the stream, hauling the dirt, grading it for the garden area, shaping the pond after it all adds up quick and to play it safe i would say you could easily be looking at a week long project. one day will get the hole dug and the dirt piled but to be honest one days worth of work is rarely worth moving a very large machine for.

a weeks worth of work with a 200 class excavator, a lgp dozer a tandem dump and a ctl i would say your looking at a project in the range of 12k-20k.

now i dont doubt that if you call around long enough you will find a local guy with a old excavator and dozer to come in and dig a puddle and push the dirt out around it for 5k but you need to look at your land as a big picture and think of drainage and future uses down the road. it may cost more now to do it right but later on it will save you money to do it right the first time.

vkulesh
11-04-2008, 10:34 PM
this is just thinking it over quick.... im sure you could dig the hole in a day but damming up the stream, hauling the dirt, grading it for the garden area, shaping the pond after it all adds up quick and to play it safe i would say you could easily be looking at a week long project. one day will get the hole dug and the dirt piled but to be honest one days worth of work is rarely worth moving a very large machine for.

a weeks worth of work with a 200 class excavator, a lgp dozer a tandem dump and a ctl i would say your looking at a project in the range of 12k-20k.

now i dont doubt that if you call around long enough you will find a local guy with a old excavator and dozer to come in and dig a puddle and push the dirt out around it for 5k but you need to look at your land as a big picture and think of drainage and future uses down the road. it may cost more now to do it right but later on it will save you money to do it right the first time.

Very interesting; I truly appreciate your input.
Now how do I do it for for 7-8k ?
I do not need the muck hauled and graded in the garden right now; there is a good low area where it can be piled up until I am ready for it.

So it looks like I would need the trees pulled out, the muck removed and piled up, the hole dug in the middle and the slopes of the pond shaped with a dozer.

I just need your input on how I can get the project done right on my smaller budget.

Summit L & D
11-04-2008, 11:07 PM
Very interesting; I truly appreciate your input.
Now how do I do it for for 7-8k ?
I do not need the muck hauled and graded in the garden right now; there is a good low area where it can be piled up until I am ready for it.

So it looks like I would need the trees pulled out, the muck removed and piled up, the hole dug in the middle and the slopes of the pond shaped with a dozer.

I just need your input on how I can get the project done right on my smaller budget.

Find the guy that Piscasso recommended - retired, cheap, takes a month to complete the project, half running equipment, doesn't pull permits and then at the end hits you for a few extra thousand bucks. Getting a reputable contractor is going to cost you...plain and simple.

P.Services
11-04-2008, 11:25 PM
Very interesting; I truly appreciate your input.
Now how do I do it for for 7-8k ?
I do not need the muck hauled and graded in the garden right now; there is a good low area where it can be piled up until I am ready for it.

So it looks like I would need the trees pulled out, the muck removed and piled up, the hole dug in the middle and the slopes of the pond shaped with a dozer.

I just need your input on how I can get the project done right on my smaller budget.

i never recommend to half ass a project, i just wont do it because i know you wont be happy latter on down the road. if you want to save money then just do as much as you can afford and then do the rest when $$ allows. you may be able to bale the muck out, dig the hole and throw them into piles around the hole pull the trees and grade out the banks of the pond. again though with out seeing it this is just guessing.

P.Services
11-04-2008, 11:27 PM
unless the deq tells you that the dirt cant be piled in a lowland. most times it needs to be put in highgrounds so it wont effect the flow of the wetlands.

Summit L & D
11-05-2008, 06:09 PM
Don't worry Picasso. I wasn't taking a run at you, the work I've seen from you is top notch!

P.Services
11-05-2008, 07:39 PM
Don't worry Picasso. I wasn't taking a run at you, the work I've seen from you is top notch!

haaa dont lie for me.

na i have put thousands of hours on a pc200 i can dig just as good as anyone. i can rough grade for b+ work by my old man still has me beat on that.

i will have some pics of the road im building up soon.

Gravel Rat
11-05-2008, 08:49 PM
Why drain the pond when you can do it this way :laugh:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRyo4_8GVrQ

www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6xnncZRDwQ&feature=related

bishoplandscape
11-06-2008, 04:16 AM
give us a call vkulesh
810-955-5170

P.Services
11-06-2008, 10:01 PM
give us a call vkulesh
810-955-5170

i think the guy to do it for less just showed up.

Superior L & L
11-06-2008, 10:05 PM
i think the guy to do it for less just showed up.
I was just going to type that same thing! LOL

Superior L & L
11-06-2008, 10:09 PM
a weeks worth of work with a 200 class excavator, a lgp dozer a tandem dump and a ctl i would say your looking at a project in the range of 12k-20k.


Id like to submit my quote $11,500 - $19,500 unless you get a cheaper quote then let me know what that is and i,ll lower my price LOL

P.Services
11-06-2008, 10:21 PM
but things can change like a inflowing stream or mud or anything. thats why i say thats to hard and to big to really give a good bid without ever seeing it.

Superior L & L
11-13-2008, 09:07 PM
give us a call vkulesh
810-955-5170

Who is us ? you and your truck

bishoplandscape
11-13-2008, 10:37 PM
Ha that's almost funny actually have 4 employed. I was going to recommend a excavator buddy in his area we use when WE are out that way. Don't mean to look like i'm trying to steal work from mowing companies.:dizzy:

Superior L & L
11-14-2008, 10:44 PM
Ha that's almost funny actually have 4 employed. I was going to recommend a excavator buddy in his area we use when WE are out that way. Don't mean to look like i'm trying to steal work from mowing companies.:dizzy:

Ha that's almost funny, are you and Picasso arch enemies

bishoplandscape
11-14-2008, 10:49 PM
Don't have any problem with Picasso.

Junior M
11-14-2008, 10:50 PM
Wow definetly wouldnt consider building a pond, or chipping land with a fecon a mowing company? You never usually see a mowing company with a ct332. I would never consider picasso a mowing company:nono:

bishoplandscape
11-14-2008, 10:55 PM
Not trying to argue with a kid such as your self but if your main line of work is mowing your a mowing company.

CAT powered
11-14-2008, 10:56 PM
Not many people here really run the big iron. If you look at nine tenths of the posts here they're all about skids or mini excavators. As far as I'm concerned those are landscaping machines and not heavy equipment, but I'm used to 3 yard loaders and 70k pound dozers.
So why don't you guys just chill out and stop insulting each other. It makes you both look unprofessional.

Junior M
11-14-2008, 10:59 PM
Not trying to argue with a kid such as your self but if your main line of work is mowing your a mowing company.
So since we wire more pools than anything does that mean I am an electric company? hmm no it doesnt...

AintNoFun
11-15-2008, 12:54 AM
and what do you consider what do is?


Not many people here really run the big iron. If you look at nine tenths of the posts here they're all about skids or mini excavators. As far as I'm concerned those are landscaping machines and not heavy equipment, but I'm used to 3 yard loaders and 70k pound dozers.
So why don't you guys just chill out and stop insulting each other. It makes you both look unprofessional.

stuvecorp
11-15-2008, 01:10 AM
Not many people here really run the big iron. If you look at nine tenths of the posts here they're all about skids or mini excavators. As far as I'm concerned those are landscaping machines and not heavy equipment, but I'm used to 3 yard loaders and 70k pound dozers.
So why don't you guys just chill out and stop insulting each other. It makes you both look unprofessional.

This is kinda off-topic but I am really sick of hearing that type of comment about skids. I may be a little bit touchy because of losing work for the reason you said, people don't believe a skid can do real work. This is not at you Cat, I would just like folks to keep an open mind on what a skid can do. I'll hop off the soapbox now.

mrsops
11-15-2008, 01:52 AM
The problem with these guys that operate heavy equipment is that they dont know how operate a skid steer and thats the dam truth you ever see some of these guys operate? they complain after 45 mins that there back hurts and half of them dont know how to dig with a skid steer anyway. If half of these guys seen what a skid steer can do they would be amazed

Dirt Digger2
11-15-2008, 03:02 AM
The problem with these guys that operate heavy equipment is that they dont know how operate a skid steer and thats the dam truth you ever see some of these guys operate? they complain after 45 mins that there back hurts and half of them dont know how to dig with a skid steer anyway. If half of these guys seen what a skid steer can do they would be amazed

our backs hurt because we run real equipment that isn't so bouncy....haha, i'm kidding

but seriously...the larger the equipment the less you go home sore at the end of the day...the only thing i complain about sometimes is my ears are ringing after a day on an un-cabbed trackloader....

but i count my blessings...i am fortunate enough to run run "real" iron...then again some guys are super skilled on a skid loader, i could never get a final grade on a wheeled skid, only because i am use to larger machines...more power to you if you can grade with a short wheel base machine, i will take a dozer or loader anyday

Gravel Rat
11-15-2008, 03:32 AM
Any time I have run skid steers my back hurts I have to get out. I can't take the bouncing. I have said this before, one of the contractors has a Cat machine line Ronalds and they rented a wheeled skid. Both the owner of the company and the operator had sore backs.

Junior M
11-15-2008, 09:26 AM
This is kinda off-topic but I am really sick of hearing that type of comment about skids. I may be a little bit touchy because of losing work for the reason you said, people don't believe a skid can do real work. This is not at you Cat, I would just like folks to keep an open mind on what a skid can do. I'll hop off the soapbox now.
Trust me, I deal with that crap all the time, everybody down here is about 20 years behind, we showed up on a job with the bobcat and grapple to move some trees and clear a little ground and we had a neighbor that wanted a job come out and help us and he said we werent going to do jack with that little thing. By the end of the day he said he was sorry he had ever doubted it's abilities..



We have lost jobs before because they owner had somebody else come in and bid it and they told him that we werent going to do a thing but waste our time and there money with that little thing, everyone down here is still stuck on backhoe's....

Construct'O
11-15-2008, 11:13 AM
Any time I have run skid steers my back hurts I have to get out. I can't take the bouncing. I have said this before, one of the contractors has a Cat machine line Ronalds and they rented a wheeled skid. Both the owner of the company and the operator had sore backs.

Ronald??? I like the sound of that:).Kind of of goes with Junior!!!!!!!! :laugh:*trucewhiteflag*:usflag:

AWJ Services
11-15-2008, 11:36 AM
Any time I have run skid steers my back hurts I have to get out. I can't take the bouncing. I have said this before, one of the contractors has a Cat machine line Ronalds and they rented a wheeled skid. Both the owner of the company and the operator had sore backs.

I have a terrible back and the living room cab of my Takeuchi allows me too move around and keep the fatigue to a min.


This is kinda off-topic but I am really sick of hearing that type of comment about skids. I may be a little bit touchy because of losing work for the reason you said, people don't believe a skid can do real work. This is not at you Cat, I would just like folks to keep an open mind on what a skid can do. I'll hop off the soapbox now.

I am in the same boat.
One problem is most peoples experience with skids is based off of older smaller machines and also rental machines.
When you get into the larger machines the productivity can double.

AintNoFun
11-15-2008, 12:08 PM
its cuz the people that have something bigger its always better, someone has something newer its always better.. we should be in awe of him cuz were just landscapers with shovels! who cares! if the guy does it with a dingo and a muck truck and makes money, it doesnt matter


This is kinda off-topic but I am really sick of hearing that type of comment about skids. I may be a little bit touchy because of losing work for the reason you said, people don't believe a skid can do real work. This is not at you Cat, I would just like folks to keep an open mind on what a skid can do. I'll hop off the soapbox now.

Gravel Rat
11-15-2008, 02:09 PM
Ronald??? I like the sound of that:).Kind of of goes with Junior!!!!!!!! :laugh:*trucewhiteflag*:usflag:

I don't think Ron ever gets called by his full name Ronald or Ronny :laugh:

Junior M
11-15-2008, 02:13 PM
I don't think Ron ever gets called by his full name Ronald or Ronny :laugh:
I like the sound of Ronny!!!!

bobcat_ron
11-15-2008, 03:32 PM
I don't think Ron ever gets called by his full name Ronald or Ronny :laugh:

Rotten Ronny, Ronny Speilberg, Bobcat Ron, Sideboards Ronny, Catman Ronny, Righteous Ronny, Ditch Digger Ron and Ron-the-magnificent-lover just to name a few.

Gravel Rat
11-15-2008, 04:57 PM
I have heard you have gone under the name Ron Jeremy while prowling the bars in Abbotsford :laugh:

CAT powered
11-15-2008, 06:40 PM
I'm not saying skids can't do real work, but if your big machine is a skid you have no right to make fun of someone because they run mowers. I have a CAT 236B wheeled skid and I don't mind it one bit. It gets a ton of work done. The rock rake I have for it saves me days worth of raking.

However a larger machine will produce more. Which is going to push off 50,000 yards of material faster? A D6 or a 297C or any comparable machine? Obviously the D6 will. Every machine has its place.

bobcat_ron
11-15-2008, 06:56 PM
I have heard you have gone under the name Ron Jeremy while prowling the bars in Abbotsford :laugh:

Well, let's just say I might be the "mini" version of that legend. Giggity.

ksss
11-15-2008, 10:01 PM
This is kinda off-topic but I am really sick of hearing that type of comment about skids. I may be a little bit touchy because of losing work for the reason you said, people don't believe a skid can do real work. This is not at you Cat, I would just like folks to keep an open mind on what a skid can do. I'll hop off the soapbox now.


This thread took an interesting turn. I have been ignoring it based on the title, but I was obviously missing out.


What Stuvecorp says is very true. This is much the reason for looking at changing the name of my company that I posted about this Spring. I have been mostly successful in overcoming the stigma of its "only a skid steer" mentality, but I will never totally overcome it, I believe it costs me more than I know. I will be honest, CATS comments don't set well with me, although I cant deny that sentiment is common to many others. The size of the equipment really isn't the issue. It is relative to the type of work your in. I believe the key, whether your a lawn mowing company with a single axle truck and an RC30 or triaxle dump and a 921D it is about ROI (return of investment).

My business model is different than most everyone else around here (although I have had several tell me that they have duplicated what I have done in part and now see why I do it, its profitable). However, your ability to control costs and net more money are really what matters. I can compete with everyone else in the large luxury home, and smaller commercial end of the excavation market. The difference is I stand nearly alone in the smaller, intricate jobs such as concrete removal, confined excavation, and demo. The smaller stuff with a slew of attachments makes me money. I learned long ago that I can make more money digging smaller holes in small areas than digging larger holes in open areas. I also learned you have to be able to do both to stay diversified. If your only tool is a sledge hammer, every job looks like a railroad spike. It may look impressive to roll up on job with a 50K excavator and knock out a job that can be done with a 12K machine, but how profitable is it to do business that way, when you consider all the costs involved?

So I may not have yard full of large iron, but I have a great ROI with the equipment I do have. That makes me profitable. The keys to making this work for me is having high performance smaller equipment. Without getting brand sensitive, I will say that the TB153 with its great specs and near zero tail and zero house swing make it one of the most versatile pieces of equipment I could have owned. The machine specs with a 580 M at the digging end, yet I can put this machine to work in any place that is at least 6',6" wide and spin all the way around.

The other key piece is the 465. I cant say for certain that I could not do what do with another similiar sized machine, so I will say that having a 3K plus ROC skid steer with the abilities of this machine have allowed me to do an incredible amount of work for a fraction of what my competion spends. When I am done moving a thousand yards of material with the loader, I can put the Preparator on and dress the job up, pickup the street sweeper and clean the asphalt and then put the machine on a trailer behind a 5500 and send it to the next job. All the while, a dedicated loader sits after the material is moved and then needs a 4 mpg dump truck to move it to the next job. However when the job calls for big iron, I bring the big iron. That usually means a wheel loader (rented), and maybe a grader (hired out).

So whether or not you own "real" heavy equipment may play on ones ego, what really matters is being successful in the area of dirt moving your in whether that is spreading mulch or builiding a subdivision.

Landscaping guys will always get verbally knocked around by midsized excavators when they start taking work work from them on the lighter excavation jobs. Those midsized excavators also get verbally knocked around by the large companies when the midsized guys start reaching into the market owned by the D-10 and 988 guys. This has been a constant at least around here for as long as I been around.

CAT powered
11-15-2008, 10:25 PM
I apologize if I offended anyone here. My point wasn't to offend anyone, but rather to try to get Bishop to stop bashing Picasso because Picasso does mowing work as well as his dirt work.

bishoplandscape
11-15-2008, 10:50 PM
Wasnt bashing picasso for mowing, if anything my post was more directed at superior.

bishoplandscape
11-15-2008, 11:46 PM
Question for everyone, why by saying mowing company am I bashing someone?

bobcatuser
11-15-2008, 11:55 PM
I can compete with everyone else in the large luxury home, and smaller commercial end of the excavation market. The difference is I stand nearly alone in the smaller, intricate jobs such as concrete removal, confined excavation, and demo. The smaller stuff with a slew of attachments makes me money. I learned long ago that I can make more money digging smaller holes in small areas than digging larger holes in open areas. I also learned you have to be able to do both to stay diversified. If your only tool is a sledge hammer, every job looks like a railroad spike. It may look impressive to roll up on job with a 50K excavator and knock out a job that can be done with a 12K machine, but how profitable is it to do business that way, when you consider all the costs involved?


I do work others can't or won't do, that's my niche market.

If I had to load trucks all day every day or do large scale repetitive work, I would quit.

stuvecorp
11-16-2008, 02:35 PM
Landscaping guys will always get verbally knocked around by midsized excavators when they start taking work work from them on the lighter excavation jobs. Those midsized excavators also get verbally knocked around by the large companies when the midsized guys start reaching into the market owned by the D-10 and 988 guys. This has been a constant at least around here for as long as I been around.

And landscape guys hate mowing guys when they lose retaining walls to them.:laugh: Kaiser made alot of good points. I have always gone after the small excavating(in residential only) and it hasn't always done my way. I got the 135 Kobelco this spring and did go to big, if I would have went with a 10,000-12,000 size I would have gotten more work and be able to move things myself I didn't figure how much the mobilization would bite me, excavators don't want to move my stuff when I am taking work that they feel should go to them.

I have said before about showing up with the 440 and the builder laughing at me but when he came back everything was done, if you charged as much as the guy that would do it with the big equipment who is making more money?

Cat, I wasn't trying to use you as a pinata, sorry.

Back on topic, how is the pond dredging looking?

Superior L & L
11-16-2008, 04:52 PM
Wasnt bashing picasso for mowing, if anything my post was more directed at superior.

Well as long as you were not bashing Picasso!

ksss
11-16-2008, 04:56 PM
Well as long as you were not bashing Picasso!


I keep envisioning this Battle Royal on a Michigan lake this Winter near Fenton. Scenes from Grumpy Old Men ice fishing keep running through my mind.

Superior L & L
11-16-2008, 05:53 PM
. Don't mean to look like i'm trying to steal work from mowing companies.:dizzy:

Wasnt bashing picasso for mowing, if anything my post was more directed at superior.

Not that I care or that its important but we probably do more landscaping in one month than you do in the whole year.

Oh and yes we have two mowing crews that make good money for us and provide lots of leads and work for the landscape crews

P.Services
11-16-2008, 07:26 PM
Well as long as you were not bashing Picasso!

i have been watching this whole topic unfold for a good chucle. im only saying this now because i didnt want to argue in front of a future client but i believe he hasn't been back on this site since.

the way i see it is i was talking to a potential customer trying to get some work when mister bishop yelled across the yard "hey f him just call me instead" defend yourself if you feel the need but i know i wouldn't have had the balls to just hop on a thread and try to weasel my way into a deal. thats just not how i work i never would have done that especially to a neighbor.

Yeah i know its just lawn site not a big deal and im not bent out of shape or mad at all just kinda lets the true colors shine for all to see. Now Superior wasnt saying anything on this thread until after remarks were made so i believe the "stealing work from mowing companies" was directed towards me, its fine just like Superior i run one crew and it makes me GREAT money and has generated ALL my other work this year. Maybe you should look into that??

I believe the question was asked "how did saying that offend"..... i believe thats the way it was used to express your farther ahead and mind the pun but Superior when it comes to dirt work, it was very obvious for all to see. If all i did was cut grass then it would be true but I OWN just as much equipment and more then bishope so that comment wasnt very well thought out (thus the back pedaling). Its not like i dont have the experience to go with it, building a road and digging a pond just today. While at the same time completing landscapes, mulch jobs, tree work, landclearing, and yes lawn maintenance. so who is farther ahead?? trying to build a company that covers all the bases is not easy, i know i have over 60k into the maintenance side of my biz so yes without that i would have my pc-78mr by now. In time i will have it all and then i will be able to grow exponentially.


before some one ways "how long have you been working on that pond?" i only work on hauling the dirt out of it at night or when im not busy with other stuff. its not a time crunch job.


if you still want a quote to dig your pond let me know. :laugh::laugh:

bishoplandscape
11-16-2008, 09:49 PM
Picasso I sent you a PM

P.Services
11-16-2008, 09:55 PM
your right i may not have the equipment to dig a pond but that didnt stop me on the last one did it?

i dont have a problem with renting equipment to get a job done.

bishoplandscape
11-16-2008, 11:04 PM
Gees kid you just don't stop do you

bishoplandscape
11-16-2008, 11:06 PM
[QUOTE=Picasso;2606179]I OWN just as much equipment and more then bishop
Ha i just caught that :laugh::laugh:

mrsops
11-16-2008, 11:07 PM
I guess you guys are in competition with each other?

bishoplandscape
11-16-2008, 11:17 PM
I guess you guys are in competition with each other?

funny you mention never ran into picasso on any of our projects barley pass him in town i guess lawnsite is our competition. lol