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VisionsLandscapes
11-06-2008, 06:12 PM
Is the end of the season the best time to gain more clients for next season or would you guys say near feb or march next season? Or possibly both to double remind them???

lawnwizards
11-06-2008, 06:39 PM
i dont pass out flyers but it seems like you would get better response right before the season starts. no one is really looking for lawn care in the winter and your flyer would probably just get thrown away.

VisionsLandscapes
11-06-2008, 06:56 PM
but what about contracts? would it be a good idea to pass out flyers so people would ask for estimates before they sign their new contracts??

DLAWNS
11-06-2008, 08:08 PM
I would say right before the season would be better. People are not thinking about grass or anything like that now. They are getting ready for the cold. Just my opinion.

whoopassonthebluegrass
11-06-2008, 09:02 PM
My best flyer time is that first warm weekend in the spring. EVERYONE'S out in the yard gearing up. Phone will ring off the hook if you time it right.

VisionsLandscapes
11-06-2008, 11:05 PM
i passed out 500 flyers last feb LATE around the 28-29th and i received 25 calls for extra work and i also received 4 full service accounts worth over $16,000 and about 4 regular mowing customers! I am planning on making some flyers ASAP passing them out in feb again to some high end places where i have never even passed them out at before. im thinking about making $1,000 this year because im wanting to pick up 12-20 lawns.

btnj47
11-06-2008, 11:15 PM
I think this is a great topic , I passed out some fliers on monday for clean-ups and got a call tuesday from some guy he left a nasty message sayin he was tired of people handing out fliers and he was giving me 48 hrs to come get them all or he was going to file a complaint. He said he was the president of his HOA, I didnt even know there were any HOA's in this area because all the houses were built in the 80's. Worst part was is didnt even tell me what street he was on and we passed them out in so many areas that night.

So what else do you guys do for advertising other than fliers I need some ideas for spring

whoopassonthebluegrass
11-06-2008, 11:29 PM
...some guy he left a nasty message sayin he was tired of people handing out fliers and he was giving me 48 hrs to come get them all or he was going to file a complaint.

Screw him. There's always a griper. He has no legal grounds to complain, so don't let one butt munch ruin it for you.

I've done radio, local magazines, phone book, the Home & Garden Expo here, and flyers.

Pound for pound, nothing beats the flyers. The return rate on them is phenomenal! The Expo was killer good for me last year - but was a complete waste of money this year...

I cut out my other advertising and am actually going back to flyers b/c they're so much more effective for the style of service I offer.

stevenf
11-06-2008, 11:33 PM
Im passing out flyers right now just not for mowing. My flyers now say leaf removal,flowerbed renovation, shrub and hedge trimming/shaping, and lawn maintenance.
Trying to get some money in my pocket during the cold weather and I will give eacha business card for lawn service when the time comes. I pass out the main flyers mid April-early May. I find that people dont start calling until it gets hot.


Whoopasson: Could you show a picture of your flyer? Mabey your design skills has something to do with your return rate.

btnj47
11-06-2008, 11:34 PM
Screw him. There's always a griper. He has no legal grounds to complain, so don't let one butt munch ruin it for you.

I've done radio, local magazines, phone book, the Home & Garden Expo here, and flyers.

Pound for pound, nothing beats the flyers. The return rate on them is phenomenal! The Expo was killer good for me last year - but was a complete waste of money this year...

I cut out my other advertising and am actually going back to flyers b/c they're so much more effective for the style of service I offer.


If you dont mind me asking , What do you mean by the style of service you offer ? Yea I wasnt too worried about it , He said he was going to file a complaint for littering, I guess some peoples lifes suck so bad that they feel the need to make others miserable or something

Big Bad Bob
11-06-2008, 11:35 PM
Is the end of the season the best time to gain more clients for next season or would you guys say near feb or march next season? Or possibly both to double remind them???

Pass out flyers in the fall, don't expect any results. Then pass them out again in March. I get 20% call back from flyers now. When I only passed them out in spring I was lucky to get 3% call back.

btnj47
11-06-2008, 11:36 PM
Also when everyone passes out fliers how did you guys find the best way to do it or to put them

Big Bad Bob
11-06-2008, 11:42 PM
I think this is a great topic , I passed out some fliers on monday for clean-ups and got a call tuesday from some guy he left a nasty message sayin he was tired of people handing out fliers and he was giving me 48 hrs to come get them all or he was going to file a complaint. He said he was the president of his HOA, I didnt even know there were any HOA's in this area because all the houses were built in the 80's. Worst part was is didnt even tell me what street he was on and we passed them out in so many areas that night.

So what else do you guys do for advertising other than fliers I need some ideas for spring

We put one at an address where my daughters co worker lived. Didn't know it, didn't care. The next day my daughter told me this person was mad at her and me for putting a flyer at her address. She thought we were being insulting as their lawn looked like crap. Anyway, she took it personally.
They still take care (if you can call it that) of their own yard.I now make a point of putting one there every year. :)

btnj47
11-06-2008, 11:50 PM
We put one at an address where my daughters co worker lived. Didn't know it, didn't care. The next day my daughter told me this person was mad at her and me for putting a flyer at her address. She thought we were being insulting as their lawn looked like crap. Anyway, she took it personally.
They still take care (if you can call it that) of their own yard.I now make a point of putting one there every year. :)

Lol that is something I would do for sure F- them , who gets mad about a stupid flier? If I get one at my house and I dont want the service I just throw it away no big deal But no some people just gotta be A-hole cry babies :cry: waaa you put a flier on my yard ...

yard_smart
11-06-2008, 11:51 PM
Door hangers are another good way to get in front of customers.

The most important rule of direct/target market marketing is constant contact! Multiple exposure to the targeted customers are the key to getting great returns . . . one flier isn't going to do the job! Here is my point

Husband gets your flier and reads it at the kitchen table thinks hey i could use these guys, (ding dong) husband goes to check the door, mean while the wife cleans the table up for dinner and in the trash goes the flier! There went your chance

But . . . send him one two weeks from now and two weeks after that and you have a better chance of getting a call. .. ..

I pass out fliers almost year round, I also keep a small ad in the news paper and always keep a stack of biz cards in all the local gas stations! THIS WORKS!!!! Picked up a $200 per mow account from a biz card a gas station!!!!

I'll post some more later . . im going to bed !!!

Exact Rototilling
11-07-2008, 12:11 AM
If you live in snow country and the leaves have already fallen I'd save your money on flyers until early spring unless you do snow removal - Xmas lights etc. People are thinking about Thanksgiving - Christmas etc. And they really don't care about Spring now unless your flyer is absolutely outstanding.


Phase #1 I just spent more than I care to admit for a boat load of Snow Removal yard signs from VistaPrints. The Signs will go up in areas that are less likely to get removed by angry people. Those signs will go up weekend after next. Still I expect to loose 1 out of 5 signs to vandals, nasty acting competitors, litter pick up crews etc.

Phase #2 will be snow flyers with some of the same graphics used in the Yard signs for connection and a triggered response. Side 2 of the SAME flyer [yes my laser printer does both sides] will be a spring flyer pumping my spring services complete with early bird call in before the end of the year 2008 is required to lock in the discounted rate of 20% to 30% off normal pricing. :D

Phase 3 will be more SPRING yard signs followed by another round of SPRING ONLY flyers/doorhangers.

If that doesn't work I'm SOL :hammerhead:
____________


Yes word of mouth is best and cheapest form of advertisement but that takes time.

Newspaper ads attract calls from all over and you will burn up windshield time and gas. Trust me I know :(

Door hangers/ flyers will incite some angry response and nasty phone calls but I have no plans to talk to the resident unless they are already outside etc. :waving:

Postcards are great for areas that don't allow solicitation door to door.

Other than Radio & TV what else do you have?

IcutgrASS1
11-07-2008, 12:25 AM
The guy who said the warm days at the end of winter was absolutly right, people are just finally getting outside and their minds start going of what they want everything to look like, and their goals. I think you have a 2 to 3 week window of great opportunity to get full service accounts for the year. I usually pick up about 50-70 new accounts every season in that time frame...use your winter months to keep putting money into making flyers and just put them away that way your not scrambling in the spring to try and get them all done and made up, im usually all set for the next season by january and i found this makes life alot easier........Good luck

02DURAMAX
11-07-2008, 12:56 AM
Early March here! or late feb!

Team-Green L&L
11-07-2008, 01:16 AM
I know this should stir up the pot, but the fact is that YOU SHOULD NEVER STOP USING HANDOUTS and I would suggest passing out 1000 a month until March and 5000 per month through April. An effective campaign is a consistent campaign. Frequency increases results at a much more rewarding rate. Stay broke if you have to and you'll thank yourself come spring. Just take that tax return and buy some equipment for your new clients because you will probably need it.

elite lawns
11-07-2008, 01:26 AM
the best time for us is in mid march

tjwalkingon
11-07-2008, 08:10 AM
Would someone please post an example of their flyers. Also where is the best place to put them, so many people go in thru their garages. Do ya'll also quote a price on them, then keep up with it.

DLAWNS
11-07-2008, 09:03 AM
Also when everyone passes out fliers how did you guys find the best way to do it or to put them

I do it a few ways. If the houses are pretty close together, I will usually walk them from door to door. I stick them in the door or under the mat if there is no storm door. When the houses are far apart or there are tons of them (and I know I'm gonna get slammed for this) I stick them in the flags of mailboxes. Around here it happens all the time and no one seems to complain. If a potential customer is outside I just introduce myself and hand it to them as I don't want to seem pushy.

yard_smart
11-07-2008, 10:20 AM
I do it a few ways. If the houses are pretty close together, I will usually walk them from door to door. I stick them in the door or under the mat if there is no storm door. When the houses are far apart or there are tons of them (and I know I'm gonna get slammed for this) I stick them in the flags of mailboxes. Around here it happens all the time and no one seems to complain. If a potential customer is outside I just introduce myself and hand it to them as I don't want to seem pushy.

Same thing here . . .and i don't care what people hound us for because putting a flier in the flag is not illegal you just can't put it IN the mail box. . . Some times i put it in the news paper slot as well

yard_smart
11-07-2008, 10:23 AM
here is a post card i sent out to all the local chamber members . . .just something simple that directs them to my site!

Dunlaps LawnCare
11-07-2008, 02:35 PM
late feb early march

usudno
11-07-2008, 03:02 PM
I'm thinking of starting to do this as well. I think i'm going to stick to a few neighborhoods in particular. I can send a flyer every month or so to two high income hoods. I hope it works.

CNYScapes
11-07-2008, 03:44 PM
I like what "Team Green" said about never stopping to put out flyers. Why not put them out all winter when ever you have the free time. Usually I am doing nothing anyway when its not snowing out, so this year I might buy say 10,000-20,000 door hangers and go to town !! Any way to get your name out there and get that idea in their heads is one more step in the right direction.

dishboy
11-07-2008, 04:00 PM
I do it a few ways. If the houses are pretty close together, I will usually walk them from door to door. I stick them in the door or under the mat if there is no storm door. When the houses are far apart or there are tons of them (and I know I'm gonna get slammed for this) I stick them in the flags of mailboxes. Around here it happens all the time and no one seems to complain. If a potential customer is outside I just introduce myself and hand it to them as I don't want to seem pushy.

Get a electric scooter or a bicycle with a kickstand that is easy to mount/dismount, I use a folding bicycle, this is twice as fast as walking .

yard_smart
11-07-2008, 05:29 PM
CNY check out doorhangers.com they are pretty cheap

Exact Rototilling
11-07-2008, 08:23 PM
Get a electric scooter or a bicycle with a kickstand that is easy to mount/dismount, I use a folding bicycle, this is twice as fast as walking .
Dang! You are onto something. :cool2:

I saw on TV and on the web it's a Dewalt 18 volt drill powered scooter. It would be an excellent conversation piece. "Hey that's cool scooter.... yeah here is my aeration flyer BTW". It would pretty much eliminate the dork factor of running around on something borderline un professional or nerdy. :o

Professional respectability, efficiency of running your route and something people will remember.

Thanks for the idea. I was wondering how I was going to pull this off and make good time and still maintain my self respect. :)

Exact Rototilling
11-07-2008, 08:41 PM
Bummer the Drill Powered Mini Bike is only $650 from the manufactuer. :cry:

Google it for video :rolleyes:

Still might be able to pay for itself. payup

Team-Green L&L
11-07-2008, 10:38 PM
here is a post card i sent out to all the local chamber members . . .just something simple that directs them to my site!

Sorry to be so harsh, but this looks like the cover of a 13 year old girl's Trapper-Keeper.

btnj47
11-07-2008, 10:41 PM
Sorry to be so harsh, but this looks like the cover of a 13 year old girl's Trapper-Keeper.

Lol trapper keeper :clapping: havent heard that name in years

yard_smart
11-07-2008, 10:50 PM
Thats the point . . . did you go to the web address ?

yard_smart
11-07-2008, 10:53 PM
here is another i put out to customers that gets about a 62% ROI

yard_smart
11-07-2008, 10:56 PM
here it is

Team-Green L&L
11-08-2008, 08:24 AM
here is another i put out to customers that gets about a 62% ROI

I think you may be a little confused on ROI. I put out 50-100K fliers a year and have been doing so for many years. ROI is historically 1-2% for door hangers (fliers), 2-3% for targeted direct mail, and 1-2% for yard signs. That means I get 1 response for every 50-100 pieces delivered.

tinman
11-08-2008, 08:53 AM
Is the end of the season the best time to gain more clients for next season or would you guys say near feb or march next season? Or possibly both to double remind them???

if you pass out something at the end of the season , maybe print a small calendar on it for when to do certain lawn activities (trim crepe myrtles, monkey grass, fertilize, etc.) that will increase the chance of them hanging onto your stuff

Exact Rototilling
11-08-2008, 05:24 PM
I called and talked to the owner of the Co. Bike is $629 shipping is $50.

Am I Nuts :hammerhead: for seriously considering this for door hangers and flyer distribution?
:waving:

yard_smart
11-08-2008, 06:57 PM
I think you may be a little confused on ROI. I put out 50-100K fliers a year and have been doing so for many years. ROI is historically 1-2% for door hangers (fliers), 2-3% for targeted direct mail, and 1-2% for yard signs. That means I get 1 response for every 50-100 pieces delivered.

Thats not an ROI . . . that the return on your fliers . . .return on investment is the money you make off of those fliers

btnj47
11-08-2008, 08:47 PM
I called and talked to the owner of the Co. Bike is $629 shipping is $50.

Am I Nuts :hammerhead: for seriously considering this for door hangers and flyer distribution?
:waving:

hell no your not nuts , that thing is kick a$$ I want one. I would just wonder if it would pull my weight and for how long till the battery went dead

Exact Rototilling
11-08-2008, 09:51 PM
hell no your not nuts , that thing is kick a$$ I want one. I would just wonder if it would pull my weight and for how long till the battery went dead

200+ pound capacity around 2 miles of run time on a fulliy charged 18 volt Dewalt - right around 6 miles on a 36 volt Dewalt. That's for flat ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8abvlYHK3Q

Product: DPXBK
Notes & Specifications: Weight 33 LBS. Speed 15MPH. Distance on battery charge depends on battery type and voltage from 2 miles to 6 miles or more. Front and rear suspension will carry 250 Lb Rider.


:cool2: upsell baby! payup :cool2:

Exact Rototilling
11-09-2008, 06:07 PM
Just ordered one of these off eBay and used my live.com 25% discount.

So it turns out to be $500 with shipping. :cool2:

btnj47
11-09-2008, 09:24 PM
That thing is too cool . Wanna buy me one LOL

birdturd9726
11-09-2008, 09:45 PM
I called and talked to the owner of the Co. Bike is $629 shipping is $50.

Am I Nuts :hammerhead: for seriously considering this for door hangers and flyer distribution?
:waving:

this is what i use. It goes about 15-20 mph. and gets a billion mpg lol. I will drive it all day for about 8 hours and put out somewhere around 3k flyer and will fill it 2 times, not even a gallon of gas. It cost around $250 shipped 4 years ago on ebay. It is excellent for flyers.

yard_smart
11-09-2008, 10:10 PM
are you guys seriously gonna use those???

can you say professionalism down the drain

birdturd9726
11-09-2008, 10:38 PM
it may not be the most professional, but people do not find it offensive, especially because im only 17. I can see if you were 35 riding around on it, then that is a different story. I didnt go out and but it to hand out flyers, i had it since i was 11. i try not to be seen on it, but occasionally a few people will see me and ask about their lawn and such on it, but it really isnt that bad. I am going ot hand out flyers tomorrow (while everyone is at work) and no one will even know i was on my scooter. it beats walking..

Exact Rototilling
11-10-2008, 12:25 AM
are you guys seriously gonna use those???

can you say professionalism down the drainSerious as a heart attack. I look at it this way.

It irks me when I see people walking door to door: Jehovah Witnesses, the local Democrats pushing Obama, Fuller Brush man, or some kid with a Lawn flyer. Even here on lawnsite and some of the Plowsite boy are very negative and down on flyers. I'm looking on having one of the lowest throw out rates out there.

I hate solicitors myself. In part I've been dreading handing out flyers for this very reason. I have no plans on knocking on the doors and pestering people. That's right up there with telemarketing calls during dinner. I'll leave the flyer or hanger and go unless someone is outside then I'll engage in a brief non pestering hello etc. here is my flyer. Maybe my flyer will have a tiny picture of me riding my new toy as visual trigger. Maybe not.

Now if I saw someone ride up on a Dewalt drill powered tig welded sophisticated unit like I just bought then I'd ask hey where did you get that. That's cool .... etc. It's called an ICE breaker. Resistance has been officially disarmed. Short small talk gotta run here is my biz card flyer etc. This is not a Pee Wee Herman bike with a girly basket on the front. This is a well engineered piece of equipment that will leave an impression IMHO. Maybe the local media will hear about this and write up a story in the paper or TV. Who knows. Maybe I will become a dealer for this unit?


With the economy going to $#it one needs to stand out from the competition. Sure I may get blown off by a few but I will probably make up for it in other areas.

You do have a point to some degree about a 2-stoke raspy scooter. I'd be a little annoyed myself. I want to be able to talk to folks walking down the street so the electric drill unit will work well. The manufacturer who makes the unit I just bought has a 2-stoke version. I will be talking to him about the possibility of rigging up a Honda GX25 4 stoke to the unit to the frame as a possibility down the road. 4 stokes are less irritating and obnoxious.

Then again maybe the whole idea will back fire on me and I will chased out of neighborhoods complete with flaming torches and pitchforks as I make my escape back to my vehicle as I speed away.

If that's the case I will sell it on eBay. Until then I will give it a shot. :waving:

Team-Green L&L
11-10-2008, 06:50 AM
We use golf carts with magnets to save time, but this reminds me of a Shriner's Circus. All you need is a goofy hat...

yard_smart
11-10-2008, 08:43 AM
Roto How old are you? LOL
and bird turd only being 17 means you should be more professional than any other guy on the board (i'm 20) we are young so that means for us to get a professional price and not just be looked at as the kid with the lawn service we have to do something different (and its not ride a scooter)

oh well to each their own i guess

VisionsLandscapes
11-10-2008, 06:00 PM
lol if your gonna be laz yand buy a drill powered scooter atleast buy a cool one that you can fit on and not look like a clown!

Exact Rototilling
11-10-2008, 09:43 PM
lol if your gonna be laz yand buy a drill powered scooter atleast buy a cool one that you can fit on and not look like a clown!
I'm open to suggestions here. Anyone aware of the best, quietist, fastest most professional scooter that is the least likely to pi$$ off a potential client as I ride up to their house driveway - out front etc. I'm all ears here. Open for suggestions. I just need something for passing out thousands of flyers/door hangers in the next 9 months as swiftly as possible.

yard_smart
11-10-2008, 09:50 PM
I'm open to suggestions here. Anyone aware of the best, quietist, fastest most professional scooter that is the least likely to pi$$ off a potential client as I ride up to their house driveway - out front etc. I'm all ears here. Open for suggestions. I just need something for passing out thousands of flyers/door hangers in the next 9 months as swiftly as possible.

Theres your problem . . . Scooter and Profession IMO can't be in the same sentence :nono:

Exact Rototilling
11-10-2008, 10:14 PM
Theres your problem . . . Scooter and Profession IMO can't be in the same sentence :nono:
Funny. :laugh:

I remember someone posting here on lawnsite in the last year or so who had a rusty Pink Pinto beater or something to that effect and how he would have to park 2 blocks away from the house so the potential client would not see his obnoxious car. It was that or drive his truck at 8 mpg. :rolleyes:

Hey if I could I'd hire the red headed honey [prior post above] on the scooter to pass out my flyers for me. :clapping:

:waving:

I'm going to kick the tires on the Honda Ruckus [the black scooter at the top above] for next year if the Dewalt Drill powered bike doesn't work out. Maybe I'll buy it for my wife for her upcoming Birthday.

jv16823
11-11-2008, 01:43 PM
I don't know about where you live, but by me a lot of the more expensive neighborhoods (aka "the newer neighborhoods") have all the mailboxes at the street. If this is the case, have you considered using your mower as transportation to each mailbox? I know it uses more gas than a scooter, but it's still faster than walking, it's an attention getter, and you don't have to spend money purchasing a new scooter. What are your thoughts on professionalism doing this?

Exact Rototilling
11-11-2008, 03:53 PM
I don't know about where you live, but by me a lot of the more expensive neighborhoods (aka "the newer neighborhoods") have all the mailboxes at the street. If this is the case, have you considered using your mower as transportation to each mailbox? I know it uses more gas than a scooter, but it's still faster than walking, it's an attention getter, and you don't have to spend money purchasing a new scooter. What are your thoughts on professionalism doing this?

The first thing that comes to mind is "get the kids in the house here come that crazy lawn guy driving his mower down the street again" May be viewed as reckless or dangerous by some. It would probably irk me if I saw this happen around my house. If someone wants to talk to you - you have to shut down etc. Something electric will be viewed as much less threatening than a noisy gas powered XYZ. I actually like the golf cart idea mentioned before. One person drives the other runs back and forth.

If it was ride the mower or walking - I'd walk.

Quite frankly I don't think handing out flyers or door hangers is a quote a professional or should I say an incredibly respected event or duty etc. I view it as necessary evil of sorts. We have to make the best of it. I just want to make it less of a PITA for me, the prospective client neighbors etc.
:waving:

pnkflydlvr
11-17-2008, 03:18 AM
Flyers are ok, but they can't insure you business because half of the people just throw them away. Use the internet to your advantage. Advertise to people who need year round services. I advertised on this site that is very inexpensive and it got me very steady work, not to mention great referrals to their friends and associates. Check it out and let me know how it goes.
http://www.american-apartment-owners-association.org/

Steve B
11-17-2008, 06:00 AM
I think the electric scooter is a great idea. It would be a great ice breaker as mentioned above. I would think for each person that thinks it looks unprofessional and won't call you because of it, there might be 4 people who would see you as a hard-working, innovative, efficiency thinking business person - just the kind of person they would like to have applying those skills on their home.

Let us know how it goes. I spend a lot of time wearing out the brakes on my van putting my brochures in the newspaper boxes. I admit I get very few jobs as a result, but it still makes enough money to cover my cost. I consider the time spent a non-issue since I only do it when I don't have anything else to do.

Exact Rototilling
11-17-2008, 12:52 PM
I think the electric scooter is a great idea. It would be a great ice breaker as mentioned above. I would think for each person that thinks it looks unprofessional and won't call you because of it, there might be 4 people who would see you as a hard-working, innovative, efficiency thinking business person - just the kind of person they would like to have applying those skills on their home.

Let us know how it goes. I spend a lot of time wearing out the brakes on my van putting my brochures in the newspaper boxes. I admit I get very few jobs as a result, but it still makes enough money to cover my cost. I consider the time spent a non-issue since I only do it when I don't have anything else to do.
Hey thanks for the thumbs up. I actually had the Owner of DPX Systems custom fit a quiet Honda GX31 4 stroke on to the same bike frame. It will truly be a one of kind unit. It ships out today. :clapping:

I just hope the law will not frown on it otherwise I will look into actually licensing it etc. This is Idaho and some dirt bikes and ATVs can be licensed for street use. If running around with the GX31 mini-bike backfires on me then it will go up for sale on eBay.

For the Dewalt drill powered min-bike I just bought a boat load of XRP batteries dual chargers etc.
:waving:

rnd
01-13-2009, 02:13 PM
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Agape
12-27-2010, 05:05 PM
Bummer the Drill Powered Mini Bike is only $650 from the manufactuer. :cry:

Google it for video :rolleyes:

Still might be able to pay for itself. payup

I'm definitely getting a gas powered stand up scooter for fliers this year- may not save time, as I gotta lay it down and pick it back up each time- but I should be able to save enough energy to hand out fliers 8 hrs/ day instead of 4 hours and laid up 2 days due to bad knees lol:walking:

Agape
12-27-2010, 05:11 PM
Also; a gas one with a motor like a two stroke trimmer will stay ileing while I lay it down to put a flier out of what I will call a "murse" (man purse) (satchel)