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View Full Version : HUGE multiple building grounds bids? how do you figure?


Ramairfreak98ss
11-10-2008, 12:26 AM
We can supply a bid for the spring for a place in NJ, problem is, although i feel we can certainly handle the job, im not sure how to bid it since its so many oddball shaped areas to maintain.

The overall location measures this on google earth, and isnt in any normal shape or size.

The location consists of over a dozen warehouses, some are well over a million sq feet. Some have parking lots for big rig trucks and hundreds of cars, they can equal many ACRES in size per lot and some surround the warehouses...

Now i'd only care about parking lots for snow removal, but the entire complex is about 1.4 miles WIDE and .65 miles DEEP, its nearly a square mile of area to maintain.

Lots of spots may only have 20-50ft of mowing/trimming/edging, but there has to be thousands of these areas, i cant even try to assume how long it would take us to do this job weekly. I would bet to guess if i had a 5-6 man crew there half one day/monday and the back half tuesday/2nd day... we could finish, but again, thats my very best guesstimate and maybe just my mindset of what i could hope for.

Out of 5 guys plus myself =total of 6.

3 guys on zero turns, from 72-48"
2 Trimmers/1 edger and maybe alternate to the walk behind for some areas

Id assume it could be done in two 8hr days, possibly having to stretch to 10hr if it took longer than i expect... but

6guysx8hrs x 2 days is still 96 man hours a week and even at $40/hr is $3840 per week. Im sure this amount is peanuts to a complex of this nature, but thats just mind blowing for lawn maintenance only.

We have contracts that have us handle 100% everything onsite, its a page long, this price above would be JUST for mowing/trimming/sidewalk edging and having to buy a PTO one of those cyclone hurricane blowers mounted to the back of our 9mph small diesel tractor to get the grass debris back out of all the sidewalks/curbs back into the grass, otherwise having 1-2 guys walking with backpack blowers this long would take many hours as is when they are tired from theyre day of work.

Being that we have no sites currently in 2008 that took anywhere over a half day, how would you estimate what to bid? My next problem is that i can supply a snow removal bid. Now we will have 4 trucks, lots of other equipment for snow removal for this 08-09 season, my bid would be for the 09-10 season but i'd need at LEAST two 2yard bulk salters for our f350s, probably one or two F550s with 9-10' plows and HUGE salt boxes in them too. Id love to think we could be up to the task and upgrade to that by next season, but i think the snow portion is more than we could handle if we had a substantial storm, both in equipment and manpower.

ill get a google screenshot here too. The top left and top right most buildings measure almost 2000 feet across and over 500 deep, close to a million sq each just for size reference, i drove my truck today from one end of one to the other in back and was rolling 40mph almost and took over half a minute to reach the other end :p

It sucks for us, this is the 2nd time we've had the opportunity to put bids in on some nice places only to realize it may be way too big, especially for snow removal.

Again, from the left side to the right side, picture is old and all buildings are now built is 1.4 miles of building, parking lots, grass and sidewalks.

P.Services
11-10-2008, 12:32 AM
make your best guess at the time it will take for lawn care and multiply it out just like you did. add a little in just to be safe say a extra 500-800 bucks.

for snow i wouldn't even attempt that without 5 skids with boxes and a good size front end loader. you can rent that stuff for alot less then what you would think. a 950 cat loader for $1200 a month.

Ramairfreak98ss
11-10-2008, 09:57 AM
make your best guess at the time it will take for lawn care and multiply it out just like you did. add a little in just to be safe say a extra 500-800 bucks.

for snow i wouldn't even attempt that without 5 skids with boxes and a good size front end loader. you can rent that stuff for alot less then what you would think. a 950 cat loader for $1200 a month.

picasso.. on large scale lots like this, whats the advantage to 5 skids/boxes vs 5 trucks with say 8-9ft plows? Do the slower speed skids/boxes still not eat up as much time as the trucks would?

retrodog
11-10-2008, 10:35 AM
What I have found is to try to determine how many acres it is, and the degree of difficulty (i.e. trimming edging etc). Then come up with a per acre minimum that you can be happy with. I have found the most efficient way to blow the debris is buy the powerful commercial hand held blowers, and just carry them on the mower with you after you finish mowing. It knocks out the sidewalks and roads really fast and easy @ $200 a pop for the Redmax handheld. I have one big back pack blower for doing leaves and dirt.

Az Gardener
11-10-2008, 10:35 AM
I would take that map and divide and number each section. Then bid it like many normal jobs. Put each area on a spread sheet top to bottom and have a line for mobilizing from one area to another. Then each month of the year across the top. This way you can also allow for longer tomes to mow when the grass is growing heavily and less when it is slow and so on. A big plus is when you deliver the bid they see where the time and $$ is being spent and the nut counters love spreadsheets. If you Pm me I can send you an example.

P.Services
11-10-2008, 11:23 AM
skids with boxes will out work any truck period. i wouldnt say they are slow, with a 2spd option they are plenty fast. a skid with a 10' box will push a HUGE amount of snow. they turn on a dime to get into corners and what not. when you have long pushes to carry the snow a distance they will save you sooo much time.

we did a huge mall and only used five trucks and two loaders. the trucks act like the weed whips on a lawn crew, they go around and clear it out from the edges and make nice easy turns for the loaders. then the loader comes thru and grabs all the snow. the trucks never push snow more then 10'. its the only way to do big stuff.

treegal1
11-10-2008, 01:37 PM
tax collector less total sq foot............... its all on record

Ramairfreak98ss
11-10-2008, 05:36 PM
skids with boxes will out work any truck period. i wouldnt say they are slow, with a 2spd option they are plenty fast. a skid with a 10' box will push a HUGE amount of snow. they turn on a dime to get into corners and what not. when you have long pushes to carry the snow a distance they will save you sooo much time.

we did a huge mall and only used five trucks and two loaders. the trucks act like the weed whips on a lawn crew, they go around and clear it out from the edges and make nice easy turns for the loaders. then the loader comes thru and grabs all the snow. the trucks never push snow more then 10'. its the only way to do big stuff.

i gotcha.. sounds like a good plan. What i worried about was the width of some of these lots, with 12" of snow only, even my F350s wouldnt be able to keep plowing to one side or the pile would be so big it would all be spilling out.

We just got a new tractor for this winter, maybe next year we will add on a heavier skid or track CAT with a bigger box like a 10 footer.

P.Services
11-10-2008, 06:20 PM
i would just call your local cat dealer and get a rate on renting a 938-966 size loader and a 15' box. get that rate and work it into your bid. you will need it. if you get it of course.

Real Green
11-10-2008, 07:18 PM
skids with boxes will out work any truck period. i wouldnt say they are slow, with a 2spd option they are plenty fast. a skid with a 10' box will push a HUGE amount of snow. they turn on a dime to get into corners and what not. when you have long pushes to carry the snow a distance they will save you sooo much time.

we did a huge mall and only used five trucks and two loaders. the trucks act like the weed whips on a lawn crew, they go around and clear it out from the edges and make nice easy turns for the loaders. then the loader comes thru and grabs all the snow. the trucks never push snow more then 10'. its the only way to do big stuff.

Picasso couldn't be more right there... Wal-Mart and Lowe's is no match for our plow boxes!

EagleLandscape
11-10-2008, 08:14 PM
Pm me your email address and i will send you the form i made to bid properties. All you need to know is the sq ft of mowable area per whatever size mower you use, linear ft of trimming, blowing, hedges, etc...

Just adjust your per acre, per linear ft charges to what your rates are. depending on what job we are on, mowing can be $25-125 an acre here. so on and so forth

Ramairfreak98ss
11-10-2008, 10:29 PM
Pm me your email address and i will send you the form i made to bid properties. All you need to know is the sq ft of mowable area per whatever size mower you use, linear ft of trimming, blowing, hedges, etc...

Just adjust your per acre, per linear ft charges to what your rates are. depending on what job we are on, mowing can be $25-125 an acre here. so on and so forth

Yeah, hard part is a lot of these area are NOT flat, i mean pretty sloped stuff up against the buildings graded for drainage only. I mean we could do the whole back half of most of these buildings with our 72" if it could hold the slope fully sideways, i think it would at least, but seriously it would take a while to go from one end to the other, trimming would be a major pita too.

picasso....this would be for the spring 09+ season and snow in 09-010, so i have some time lol. Id sure have to add on a lot of equipment and rentals to be able to match price whatever company is doing it currently. A 15' box would easily fit almost all of these parking lots.

Whats a CAT machine like that run to buy?

P.Services
11-10-2008, 10:36 PM
to buy one?? a new machine with a few hours 5,000-7,000 you could find one for around 45-55k. now you could buy a old girl (1966 or so) for around 15-25k. they are built to run forever!!!! my dad has two and they will keep up with any new machine of the same size.

i was looking at a 1967 950 cat last year at this time, it had a full cab a quick coupler with a bucket forks and a box blade and a scale in the cab. all for $13,000. im still kicking myself for not buying that machine. look long enough and a deal will come around.

Ramairfreak98ss
11-11-2008, 10:00 AM
I only know actual prices of the Deere wheel loaders.. the 244j was in the 70k+ range, the 304j was in the high 80k range already and still theyre fairly smaller machines. Of course id never even consider buying anything larger as id have no use for it aside from the snow,

What weights are these machines that can push a 15' box? 12-15k ? or your in the 18 wheeler tractor trailer brings it to the site size? haha

P.Services
11-11-2008, 12:18 PM
oh yeah a 950 loader is a big boy its coming in on a lowboy and semi.

i think it would be best to rent one big loader and then have two wheel skid steers with boxes, then you can use the skids during the summer months also. you can always find a excavating company that has a big loader and pay them by the hour to run it that way you arnt risking anything by renting it for a month and you get no snow. but emember these loaders take about $200-$250 an hour so if he puts in 10 hours in one month it would have been cheaper to rent one yourself.

just come up with your normal bid for snow and then put $8,000 or so on it for a loader rental, these big commercial jobs want to see loaders on site they arnt stupid they know how fast they can move the snow.