How Will You Act Differently With Obama In Office?

[Sean Adams]

Last Wednesday, one day after the Presidential Election, I received an email from a friend who has me on his dreaded FWD list. Most of the time his emails are chain letters or prayer requests that tell me if I don't pass them on to 1,763 people in 30 seconds my soul will perish in the depths of hell.

However, this email he sent me was an email apparently passed on to many people that was started by a small business owner in Anywhere, USA.

In a nutshell, this is what the business owner said....

He has 120 employees and he likens his business to a family. During the election process he tried his best to let his employees know that voting for McCain would be the best thing for the business and the economy (in his opinion). He is not a political person so he certainly did not force anything on anyone.

After Obama won, he made the decision (was already planning to do this if Obama won) to cut back health benefits from 75% for his employees to only 50% and he had to let go of 35 employees.

He had no idea how he was going to do this. The he decided that what seemed most fair to him was going out into the parking lot of his employees cars and anyone who had an Obama sticker on their car would be the ones he would let go.

Is there a message here? I don't know. Is this even true? Not sure.... Is it the right way to make a decision like that? Not for me to say....

So my question for you is this -

How is Obama as President going to change how you run your business? How are you going to live differently in general? How do you think it will affect your ability to grow and prosper? Will you grow and prosper more? Will your business be in trouble? Will it even matter who is in office?

[americanlawn]

Sean -- That AIN'T right..........No TRUE American would pull a stunt like that. We all voted McCain/Palin, but we pulled all of our yard signs out of our yards (home & business) by 7:30 the following morning after the election.

All "true Patriots" will honor the office of the President of the United States.....including me.

Been seeing on the news lately that Obama may not have choices that he once took for granted during his campaign. I think he will soon become a realist, cuz money doesn't grow on trees.

I will support him 110% once he becomes President unless he fouls up too much....especially if he penalizes small businesses.

[FaithNoMan]

Maybe we should worry more about stuff like this:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=96827874


Your friend seems like a horrible boss, especially if he is going out in a parking lot to fire people based on who they voted for in an American election. He might as well fire people based on sex, race, or religious belief - it is the same thing.

Is there really anything to think about here?

[Charles]

I think one more year of W and we would all be bankrupt. 1/2 million jobs lost this year so far. DHL just closed its doors--10,000 jobs lost. Circuit City just went bankrupt. 19 banks have gone under so far this year. 2 large Auto dealers have gone under. Many businesses are scraping by. States are begging the government for Billions.
We depend on the American consumer to have money to spend. Right now many worry about just keeping their jobs and 401 K's. We have to worry about just making it to January 20th when Obama takes office. Things are going to get a lot worse before then.
Whether it would be Obama or McCain, we would be paying more taxes with a record $11 Trillion debt and a record $trillion annual budget deficit W is leaving us with. Local, state or Federal. Higher taxes are inevitable. Just a sad situation

[Exact Rototilling]

I'm actually way more concerned about the "RACE CARD"

Such as any criticism against Obama makes one a racist. I had an Alan Keyes 2000 bumper sticker on my truck for many years in an area that was once know for supposedly being some sort of white racist Mecca. I never had any trouble.

I was listening to a Idaho Public television the day after the election addressing the election issues R's vs. D's and one caller actually admitted the only reason she voted for Obama was that he was a black man. ;) Sorry that is right up there with voting for McCain because Sarah Palin is cute and she would be the first woman VP in history. :rolleyes:


The tax increase on small business won't be instant. I'm actually more concerned about Obama signing on to treaties which supersede our laws and constitiontion. :cry:

[White Gardens]

To me the e-mail sounds ridiculous.

Obama isn't even in power yet and people are making drastic assumptions of what he might do.

If the story is true, then the business owner had something more going then just worrying about future politics. In the end it sounds like Obama was his scapegoat.

If I had to take a wild guess, I would say that the banks that were lending him money to operate went belly-up.

The main complaint I've heard from people is the Obama tax situation on businesses earning over $250,000. Nobody wants to pay the taxes that bush cut in the last eight years. Businesses were paying higher taxes before his presidency, and they survived with no problems, so, if taxes do get raised, will it really impact everyone as badly as we think.

I just think we've been spoiled by bad economic policies the last 8 years, and if cutting taxes should of stimulated the economy, then we would have never gotten rebate checks last year.

Beauty of it all is that we vote again in 4 years. :usflag:

[n-green]

Business as usual here. At least O told us he was going to raise taxes. We will see how that works out. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

[AI Inc]

Well Im going to sell my buss to my nephew for a couple hundred bucks. I will keep about 100 or so old customers who will pay me in cash.
Ever since last wed AM my foot has been realy hurting from a car accident I was in in 06. So I am going to be signing up for SSI. May even see if I can qualify for food stamps and heating assistance. When the season starts back up next April I will do those cash jobs working maybe 15 hrs a week. Aside from that I will be boating , fishing , hanging out.

So if I dont get to talk to you guys then I just want to thank you so much for working real hard and taking care of me. That shows you are all true humanitarians who should be proud of yourselves..
Again , thank you and Ill be thinking of you guys sweating while Im on the lake with 1 or 2 half naked woman.

[lawnprosteveo]

If Obama imposes his gas tax to curb consumption, then you will find your profits reduced drastically. This will cause you to have to raise prices...except your customers will be squeezed by the tax as well and will simply tell they cant afford you.

Pay off all your debt, run as lean as possible, probably solo. Maybe I'll survive, maybe I'll quit and just not earn any extra money. Hell, if I earn too much my taxes will just eat me up!

[Boon]

I work with four black people and we were discussng the canidates several weeks before the election and everyone of them had views the exact opposite of Osama and they still voted for him just because he is black,Their words not mine.But on a positive note i own a few new firearms now. :usflag:

[braylonjones]

I'm actually way more concerned about the "RACE CARD"

Such as any criticism against Obama makes one a racist. I had an Alan Keyes 2000 bumper sticker on my truck for many years in an area that was once know for supposedly being some sort of white racist Mecca. I never had any trouble.

I was listening to a Idaho Public television the day after the election addressing the election issues R's vs. D's and one caller actually admitted the only reason she voted for Obama was that he was a black man. ;) Sorry that is right up there with voting for McCain because Sarah Palin is cute and she would be the first woman VP in history. :rolleyes:


The tax increase on small business won't be instant. I'm actually more concerned about Obama signing on to treaties which supersede our laws and constitiontion. :cry:

I work with four black people and we were discussng the canidates several weeks before the election and everyone of them had views the exact opposite of Osama and they still voted for him just because he is black,Their words not mine.But on a positive note i own a few new firearms now. :usflag:

You know...I tried my best to refrain from commenting on this subject on this site...but, this is just too one-sided. I've heard on tape...McCain/Palin supporters calling Obama a ******...I'm talking about these statements being made in the middle of a campaign speech! The speaker continued talking like nothing was wrong with that. Countless supporters of the McCain/Palin ticket constantly accused Obama of being an "arab"? These people would not vote for Obama because they thought he was an "arab"...and this justified their vote for McCain/Palin. If that's not a vote based on race...what is? So yes...there were ignorant folks on both sides that voted purely on race. For those of us that voted becasue of the candidate's views...hats off.

Instead of saying that one side had folks voting based solely on race...say both sides did. I can post links to videos that prove my claim as well.

[braylonjones]

Sean,

Please forgive me for my use of the word that I partially disguised. Thank you for disguising the rest of the word. I used it to jar some folk that refuse to analyze the obvious. Unfortunately, we as humans sometimes ignore that which makes us feel uncomfortable to support our beliefs. Everybody on this earth doesn't have that luxury...especially when you may have once/many times been the target of that which is making said people uncomfortable.

And as far as the employer that came up with eliminating Obama supporters...an adult that chooses to take his ball home because he lost...tell him/her that karma is quite the equalizer.

[MSS Mow]

Nothing like a little fear-mongering (sp) huh Sean?? This country operates on the premise of good faith in our federal government. Right now that is at an all time low and it's showing in all the bank/business failures. However, for you to post that ridiculous email about a small business owner firing employees based on supporting a particular candidate is nothing short of fear-mongering. I got the same email a week or so ago and was totally disgusted by it. I wasn't pleased with either option we had for choosing our next Commander in Chief, but it's not my decision who gets to run.

You could have asked your questions without putting in the crap about this supposed business owner who fired a bunch of Obama supporters.

[garydale]

He is our president.
We should support him in that position.
That is what makes this America.
If he fails to govern as an american first and black second we will be fine.
If he doesn't he won't last.

[tinman]

I doubt that story is true as I do with most FWD emails Sean. I know different Presidents do different things to hurt different sectors of business whether intentionally or just by accident. But I believe that each business (sucessful ones) just creates ways around ridiculous regulations and laws. So thinking a politician is going to wreck your business is not realistic usually. I know it seems to be getting worse here in the USA with so many laws being passed. Laws & regulations are simply words written on pieces of paper by other humans. They are not magical. So bad ones should be ignored & circumvented.

[topsites]

You mean, I have to act a certain way now depending on who gets or got elected?

Dang that's news to me, I didn't know I was supposed to do that, come on now don't hold back on me,
fill me in what do I do, how do I act, should I be a little more black or white in my demeanor, should I
hold my pencil different, what should I wear, should I dress otherwise?

[FaithNoMan]

Nothing like a little fear-mongering (sp) huh Sean?? This country operates on the premise of good faith in our federal government. Right now that is at an all time low and it's showing in all the bank/business failures. However, for you to post that ridiculous email about a small business owner firing employees based on supporting a particular candidate is nothing short of fear-mongering. I got the same email a week or so ago and was totally disgusted by it. I wasn't pleased with either option we had for choosing our next Commander in Chief, but it's not my decision who gets to run.

You could have asked your questions without putting in the crap about this supposed business owner who fired a bunch of Obama supporters.

His buddy is also one of those people also that post those ridiculous "Send this to 15 other people, or you will have bad luck for the next 20 years" type of emails, so I wouldn't take the guy seriously anyway.

He is our president.
We should support him in that position.
That is what makes this America.
If he fails to govern as an american first and black second we will be fine.
If he doesn't he won't last.

Damn right. We gave the Bush administration a chance and they lied to us and sent our men and women in harm's way. I still haven't heard a real answer to why we're in Iraq from George Bush. I guess the US is once bitten, twice shy now.

[MSS Mow]

His buddy is also one of those people also that post those ridiculous "Send this to 15 other people, or you will have bad luck for the next 20 years" type of emails, so I wouldn't take the guy seriously anyway.


I certainly don't believe any of it, that's why I posted what I did. It's unfortunate though how many people do believe that garbage.

[Sean Adams]

#1 - my friend forwarded me the email, he isn't the business owner (as I stated) who decided to fire his employees by this method - it was merely to show you that some people are reacting (or over-reacting) to Obama being elected President....

#2 - I never said I would not support our President - I merely asked how YOU might see things or act differently...

#3 - fear mongering? How so? I asked a question if Obama being elected will affect you - will it hurt you? Will it help you? Does it even matter?

This is not about black, white, arab, muslim, young, old, man, or woman - you are business owners and I asked if you feel that the new President will affect your business - if you think that every single president and congress elected will not in some way affect your business (either good or bad) then you need to think a little harder....

Now back to the question....

How is Obama as President going to change how you run your business? How are you going to live differently in general? How do you think it will affect your ability to grow and prosper? Will you grow and prosper more? Will your business be in trouble? Will it even matter who is in office?

[White Gardens]

Now back to the question....

How is Obama as President going to change how you run your business? How are you going to live differently in general? How do you think it will affect your ability to grow and prosper? Will you grow and prosper more? Will your business be in trouble? Will it even matter who is in office?


No, I won't change my business strategy. Fortunately my business isn't large enough to be affected dramatically.

Will I feel different, heck ya, finally I might get more affordable health care, and maybe I'll be able to do more work for the middle class citizens.

[Jason Pallas]

C'mon, really - neither one was any different from the other. Whoever won would just lie to us, steal from us and be a puppet for the real illuminatae that run the world. Christ, it doesn't matter, the world is going to all come to an end in 2012. The magnetic poles are going to shift as we pass through the galactic center plane of the milky way and the world will be literally torn apart. Until then, the world will be figuratively torn apart by social and ecomonic meltdown. So, the real question should be; Are you going to spend the last 4 years of your life arguing politics and cutting lawns or are you going to do something else?

[marthanmike1959]

I will give him the same respect the same as the media who pounded w.No respect at all for the office or him.Nobama will get the same from me.He's not my president

[Sean Adams]

C'mon, really - neither one was any different from the other. Whoever won would just lie to us, steal from us and be a puppet for the real illuminatae that run the world. Christ, it doesn't matter, the world is going to all come to an end in 2012. The magnetic poles are going to shift as we pass through the galactic center plane of the milky way and the world will be literally torn apart. Until then, the world will be figuratively torn apart by social and ecomonic meltdown. So, the real question should be; Are you going to spend the last 4 years of your life arguing politics and cutting lawns or are you going to do something else?

I'm not trying to be funny - this is a serious question....

Do you really believe this? I have read things about the Mayan calendar ending on 12/21/2012 and some predict that it will be the end of the world but I never really looked into why... I'm not trying to hijack my own thread, but this intrigues me...maybe start a new thread in off topic and see what others know or have to say....

Ok sorry, back to the topic...

[White Gardens]

I'm not trying to be funny - this is a serious question....

Do you really believe this? I have read things about the Mayan calendar ending on 12/21/2012 and some predict that it will be the end of the world but I never really looked into why... I'm not trying to hijack my own thread, but this intrigues me...maybe start a new thread in off topic and see what others know or have to say....

Ok sorry, back to the topic...


That's funny, I've been reading about 2012 lately. Web-Bot program with that prediction, Chinese writings, and the Mayan calender. Crazy stuff.

[FaithNoMan]

Christ, it doesn't matter, the world is going to all come to an end in 2012. The magnetic poles are going to shift as we pass through the galactic center plane of the milky way and the world will be literally torn apart.
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff49/Razgul42/dr_evil.jpg






"TRAC-TOR BEAM".

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j62/tdtdc/dr_evil_laser.jpg

[MSS Mow]

#1 - my friend forwarded me the email, he isn't the business owner (as I stated) who decided to fire his employees by this method - it was merely to show you that some people are reacting (or over-reacting) to Obama being elected President....

#2 - I never said I would not support our President - I merely asked how YOU might see things or act differently...

#3 - fear mongering? How so? I asked a question if Obama being elected will affect you - will it hurt you? Will it help you? Does it even matter?

This is not about black, white, arab, muslim, young, old, man, or woman - you are business owners and I asked if you feel that the new President will affect your business - if you think that every single president and congress elected will not in some way affect your business (either good or bad) then you need to think a little harder....

Now back to the question....

How is Obama as President going to change how you run your business? How are you going to live differently in general? How do you think it will affect your ability to grow and prosper? Will you grow and prosper more? Will your business be in trouble? Will it even matter who is in office?

Do you seriously believe that story your "friend" forwarded to you??? My friend, you really do need to get your head out of the sand if you do believe it.

Your post (along with the email) is fear mongoring because your are spreading fear to others unnecessarily simply so you can sway someone's opinion of another. In this case, of our new President. If you truly wanted to know how Obama as President was going to change how we run our business, you would have asked just that. But, without adding in a little bit of fear first.

Who that works a regular job wouldn't be scared of being fired after reading that garbage if they had voted for Obama and knew they had a staunch McCain supporter as their boss??

There is absolutely no credibility to that story, and you Sean, as someone who is looked up to by thousands of people here, shouldn't be posting that crap as though it could be true. It's no different than the news media doing the same thing, they just reach a larger audience. Grow up and admit when you make a mistake Sean!

[Kelly's Landscaping]

His idea is brilliant get rid of the dead weight and that’s always the best place to start. Weather its true or not who knows but its funny to see how mad the Dems got just thinking owners could retaliate. Lets face it Obama isn’t gona give us the tax cuts he ran on it was just to get elected exact replay of Clinton Bush 1992 but I do love the concept if someone is going to play the class warfare card to use it back on them and fire them. Would of been a different outcome had many who voted realized they are likely gona be unemployed because of their vote next year. Not an issue in my company we listen to talk radio all day Rush Sean and Glen and our employees are all registered republicans and it is a nice work environment never any arguments at work we all get along. On the other hand in the past when I had Dems omg Nightmares they always seemed to have court and drug issues and a huge contempt for what we do yet wanted the pay check.

[FaithNoMan]

His idea is brilliant get rid of the dead weight and that’s always the best place to start. Weather its true or not who knows but its funny to see how mad the Dems got just thinking owners could retaliate. Lets face it Obama isn’t gona give us the tax cuts he ran on it was just to get elected exact replay of Clinton Bush 1992 but I do love the concept if someone is going to play the class warfare card to use it back on them and fire them. Would of been a different outcome had many who voted realized they are likely gona be unemployed because of their vote next year. Not an issue in my company we listen to talk radio all day Rush Sean and Glen and our employees are all registered republicans and it is a nice work environment never any arguments at work we all get along. On the other hand in the past when I had Dems omg Nightmares they always seemed to have court and drug issues and a huge contempt for what we do yet wanted the pay check.



The post above yours makes a good point and isn't portraying Republicans in a negative light.

You are the one that took the low road, not MSS Mow.

[topsites]

if you think that every single president and congress elected will not in some way affect your business (either good or bad) then you need to think a little harder....

Now back to the question....

How is Obama as President going to change how you run your business?
How are you going to live differently in general?

I did find the comedy in this thread between mildly amusing and somewhat dismaying, if that helps.

I don't believe in acting, it turns me off that someone would ask how am I going to act different because of an
elected President or any other reason, I have not thought of myself as an actor in many years thou it does appear
as if there are some volunteers for this acting position it is that I want no part in that play.

Now I think it would be the wiser of a choice to wait until such changes take place before jumping the gun,
without much indication as to what is going to change at this early stage I would be as well off gambling.

[Sean Adams]

Do you seriously believe that story your "friend" forwarded to you??? My friend, you really do need to get your head out of the sand if you do believe it.

Your post (along with the email) is fear mongoring because your are spreading fear to others unnecessarily simply so you can sway someone's opinion of another. In this case, of our new President. If you truly wanted to know how Obama as President was going to change how we run our business, you would have asked just that. But, without adding in a little bit of fear first.

Who that works a regular job wouldn't be scared of being fired after reading that garbage if they had voted for Obama and knew they had a staunch McCain supporter as their boss??

There is absolutely no credibility to that story, and you Sean, as someone who is looked up to by thousands of people here, shouldn't be posting that crap as though it could be true. It's no different than the news media doing the same thing, they just reach a larger audience. Grow up and admit when you make a mistake Sean!

I respect your opinion but I can assure you the post was not intended to make anyone fearful of our new president. In fact, my hope is that everyone in this country, regardless of who they voted for, will in fact support and stand behind our new president because he is about to venture into unchartered and unprecedented waters. If he does not have everyone's support, there will be a problem. However, there are always two views....

60 million people voted for Obama, 54 million I think voted for McCain - a lot of people, whether you want to pull up your head out of the sand, do not like and are in actuality, afraid of Obama due to the "unknown factor"... When people face the unknown, they make changes and they prepare themselves a certain way - it's just the way it is.

If this post would have been made before the election, then MAYBE I could see you accusing me of trying to persuade people to vote one way or another - but that was not the case. I am merely asking questions specifically to people in our industry that trust me, the mass media has already ran with and touched upon. I am just trying to get the perspectives of people here.

[FaithNoMan]

So let me get this straight.

The "knuckle draggers" voted for the most intelligible candidate?


Unga Bunga!





""Right speech, wrong party." That was the conclusion of a number of conservative commentators after Barack Obama’s celebrated performance at the Democratic national convention in 2004. This speech was very different from anything else delivered that night. Unlike many other Democrats, Obama used his moment in the limelight to send out a positive and constructive message about an end to the bickering of partisan politics; to the spin and cynicism that has defined political life in America since the 1990s. This is a message Obama has continued to spread in the run for his party’s nomination for president.

Obama's hopeful non-partisan tone appeals to those conservatives who have been disillusioned by the polarising George W Bush presidency. After eight years with a leadership that has deepened the political divide in America, they long for a president capable of rising above the standard ideological fray.

The conservative blogosphere is currently flowing over with such comments, uttered by people who are tired of seeing their country torn apart by fierce arguments between the Bush and Clinton camps, and the cultural wars fought by the Christian right and die-hard secularists. These sentiments were recently summed up in an excellent essay in the Atlantic magazine by the conservative journalist and commentator Andrew Sullivan (known in Britain through his columns for the Sunday Times), where he came out as a passionate supporter of Obama. "

http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=9988

[Kelly's Landscaping]

Faith I think you might be over due for a reality check Obama was the most unqualified candidate the democrats have put up in more then a century. He cannot turn water to wine he cannot walk on water he also cannot help you. I took the 3 mins to look over your posts here all but one is about how great Obama is we get it you like the clown. You said I took the low road that was not fair nor true the problem with you is you can not see any one else’s point of view I honestly get the impression from you that your offended that others could have a different point of view on your messiah. You said he is a “once in a live time politician” no he’s a thug for Chicago and the man you speak of the once in a life time man the one who inspired people was Ronald Wilson Reagan. He inherited an economy worse then this one Carter had lose 10 million jobs this rescission isn’t even close there is not rampant inflation there is no 22% mortgages. Reagan cut taxes despite massive democrat majorities in congress and created 20 million jobs Obama has now said he wishes to create or preserved 2.5 million jobs. I love that line so when he loses 5 million jobs he can always yes but I preserved 2.5 million so its not as bad is it could of been.

I will never understand those that want government further in their lives I mean seriously what’s wrong with you. Grow a pair and go out and earn a living and create some jobs you posted you want to be a solo landscaper some day. You got a lot of nerve preaching socialism I urge you put something back into this country that gave you your freedom create some jobs and help our economy. Until you do I do not see you as an equal or even a differing opinion since you have no clue the hoops I have to jump through on a dailey basis so forgive me if I'm not overly excited with the prospect of even more flaming hoops ahead.

And if you want to quote some one pick some one like Winston Churchill who was actually tested and his crisis wasn’t of his own making like your boy’s.
"If your not a liberal by the time your 20 you have no heart if your not a conservative by the time your 30 you have no brain"

Macarthur was right JFK should have been court marshaled!

[Charles]

Faith I think you might be over due for a reality check Obama was the most unqualified candidate the democrats have put up in more then a century. He cannot turn water to wine he cannot walk on water he also cannot help you. I took the 3 mins to look over your posts here all but one is about how great Obama is we get it you like the clown. You said I took the low road that was not fair nor true the problem with you is you can not see any one else’s point of view I honestly get the impression from you that your offended that others could have a different point of view on your messiah. You said he is a “once in a live time politician” no he’s a thug for Chicago and the man you speak of the once in a life time man the one who inspired people was Ronald Wilson Reagan. He inherited an economy worse then this one Carter had lose 10 million jobs this rescission isn’t even close there is not rampant inflation there is no 22% mortgages. Reagan cut taxes despite massive democrat majorities in congress and created 20 million jobs Obama has now said he wishes to create or preserved 2.5 million jobs. I love that line so when he loses 5 million jobs he can always yes but I preserved 2.5 million so its not as bad is it could of been.

I will never understand those that want government further in their lives I mean seriously what’s wrong with you. Grow a pair and go out and earn a living and create some jobs you posted you want to be a solo landscaper some day. You got a lot of nerve preaching socialism I urge you put something back into this country that gave you your freedom create some jobs and help our economy. Until you do I do not see you as an equal or even a differing opinion since you have no clue the hoops I have to jump through on a dailey basis so forgive me if I'm not overly excited with the prospect of even more flaming hoops ahead.

And if you want to quote some one pick some one like Winston Churchill who was actually tested and his crisis wasn’t of his own making like your boy’s.
"If your not a liberal by the time your 20 you have no heart if your not a conservative by the time your 30 you have no brain"

Macarthur was right JFK should have been court marshaled!

Reagan also said "deficits don't matter". He borrowed money left and right. Tax cuts and increased spending was his motto. The right wing has been following that mantra every since he uttered those words. Now we have a $11 Trillion++ deficit which is growing a $Trillion a month because of the bailout. You guys think Reagan was great because he didn't ask the American public for any sacrafice to rebuild the economy. He just past the pain along to future Generations. He was also big on deregulation which has led to the banking crisis and led to the Enron debacle. I am not saying some dems haven't been guilty of joining in. Clinton had us the most financially sound condition. Then W picked up where Reagan left off. Tax cuts, rebates and increased spending. He shifted taxes to the state and local levels. He did not veto any spending bills by the Republican lead Congress for 6 years
I voted for Reagan but his philosophy set the stage.
Both Republicans and Democrats are happy with the Pro's Obama his appointing to help get us out of this mess. He is appointing competent people so far. He should be steered in the right direction. A good manager hire's the right people for the job. He did go from being relatively an unknown to being President. He ran a great campaign. Had the right people in place to help him over come great obstacles. He over came America's racism and fear of the unknown to win by a landslide.
I hope he does a great job, because he is all we have to stave on disaster.
The fix is going to take a long time. So save your pennies. Many on here have not seen the hard times that are sure to come before this is over. Like you said, Carter was the last time we have millions unemployed

[Kelly's Landscaping]

Reagan didn't have a line item veto so had little choice in the spending he would ask for a bill and they would load it up with pork and say I dare you to veto it. And as for sacrificing the American public already had before Reagan got in we had 35 years of the cold war 13 years of Viet Nam a president that had no clue what to do in jimmy carter the top tax bracket was 76% then that’s insane. Yet that’s what a dem president with a dem congress got us. The first thing Obama spoke of was rolling back the bush tax cuts that’s ignorant and naive poor people do not hire people rich people do. But there’s been group of radical thinkers since the Russian revolution that seem to think the capitalist economic model that worked since the beginning of time is out dated. And somehow we can manipulate the system with quote " government investments" in the right areas. They have been trying this for 100 years now it has failed every where its been tried even where they claim success if you compare it to a democracy that allows free markets their idea of success is laughable. Do you remember when china was going to get Hong Kong back in 1997, which the British had run for 99 years pure capitalism no socialism at all? The population of china was then 1,100,000,000 people in Hong Kong there were 10,000,000 they had the same GDP. Meaning 111 people ware as productive as a single free person that says it all.

I would like to see some one run and say this we will not be spending a single cent more then the previous year no one is getting any benefits increased no one is getting any raises in the government. If they did that for a mere 2 years we would balance the budget since we would grow the economy if they did it for 10 years we would retire the deficit. This is something we need to do soon instead what do candidates do they run on bribes and what do our citizens do they demand them because our public school systems were taken over 40 years ago by the liberals and they no longer teach self reliance and personal responsibility. The good news is we all have our guns and when it gets to a certain point we get to start over again like Jefferson had foreseen.

[Charles]

Interesting opinion on the deficit and what Obama was looking to raise taxes. We know the numbers have gone way up since this was written, so we are in much worse shape now. You can add another $Trillion after the bailouts:


The National Debt



The debt is a confusing and almost meaningless number, ten trillion dollars. When numbers are that high, what is the difference between 7 trillion dollars or 8 trillion dollars or ten trillion dollars. Yet it should be the #1 political issue in America. Ross Perot had it right in 1992, Clinton took his idea and balanced the budget. The result was a strong US Dollar and a strong US economy.



So what is the National Debt, or deficit? Why does it matter? How do we get rid of it?



1. The government yearly budget deficit is not the National Debt, but it does add to it each year. The current National Debt is $10, 543, 779, 433, 689 and counting. The 2008 yearly budget deficit is about 438 billion dollars.



2. This is why it matters to everyday tax payers. Presidents who run the debt up today are increasing taxes in the future. When you borrow money, you have to pay it back with interest. This interest payment is made every year by the treasury, with tax dollars. Recent payments have been 400-500 billion dollars. This is the fourth highest expenditure of the United States Government budget behind Health and Human Services, Defense and Social Security, all of which are about 700 billion dollars, respectively. The 400 billion dollar yearly interst payment would be enough to give the top 5% another 100 billion dollar tax cut, pay for the 100 billion dollar Iraq War and you would have 200 billion dollars to give more money for education, health care, NASA, Social Security, bank failures, and even a bridge to nowhere.



The fact is when Republican Ronald Reagan became president the entire National Debt from George Washington to Jimmy Carter was about 1 trillion dollars. Reagan immediately lowered taxes, ran up the largest deficits in history and after 12 years of Reagan-Bush the debt was increased a staggering 400% to about 4 trillion dollars. The debt continued to increase under Bill Clinton, even though he balanced the yearly budget. The surpluses where spent as well and as we know George W. Bush inherited the surpluses, immediately lowered taxes, ran up the largest deficits in history to give us our 10 trillion dollar debt of today.



The tax cuts for the top 5% of George W. Bush and lack budget cuts have increased the interest payment so much that it is bankrupting the country. Taxes must be raised on the top 5% in order to have a chance to balance the budget again. Raised taxes and a balanced budget today will equal lower taxes tomorrow.



3. When John Kennedy lowered taxes to spur the economy, he did so by lowering from about 91% to 77%. Seems crazy, but yes he lowered it to 77%. Reagan lowered it to 28% and today it’s 35%. Clinton had it right around 40% and under Obama and Biden, it would rise to 39.6%. It seemed like that was a good balance. Not Jimmy Carter 70%, not Bush's 35%, but somewhere around 40 seems to keep the economy and deficit happy.



This is not Republican or Democrat, it is American. The Reagan tax cut was brilliant, but just a bit too much. 40% is still very low compared to what the great generations before us paid.



Christopher J. Farino

[lawnman_scott]

His idea is brilliant get rid of the dead weight and that’s always the best place to start. Weather its true or not who knows but its funny to see how mad the Dems got just thinking owners could retaliate. Lets face it Obama isn’t gona give us the tax cuts he ran on it was just to get elected exact replay of Clinton Bush 1992 but I do love the concept if someone is going to play the class warfare card to use it back on them and fire them. Would of been a different outcome had many who voted realized they are likely gona be unemployed because of their vote next year. Not an issue in my company we listen to talk radio all day Rush Sean and Glen and our employees are all registered republicans and it is a nice work environment never any arguments at work we all get along. On the other hand in the past when I had Dems omg Nightmares they always seemed to have court and drug issues and a huge contempt for what we do yet wanted the pay check.So to sum it up, all dems are bad and all reps are good? I think you are out of touch. The sad thing is that there isnt even a real big difference between the two parties anymore.

And to awnser the question, I will do nothing different. I would not let a presidential election dictate what I will or will not do.

[Kelly's Landscaping]

I like you Charles you do attempt to give both sides although like myself you fall short on the opposition. Reagan did one thing that is stunning he double the revenue to the federal government in a mere 8 years it went from 600 billion to 1.2 trillion. The tax issue is more complicated then just federal you add in state, local, property taxes, mandated insurance, social security, Medicare. You add all that up and even a guy paying the low bush 35% is really paying well more then half his income in taxes 50-75% when you hurt the so called rich the stop spending and it hurts the middle class. I can remember congress deciding to put in a super high yacht tax to punish the rich so what did they do they stopped buying them in this country. And the result was 10000 boat builders lost their very good paying jobs.

The fact of the matter is if you raise taxes you will increase the money to the government I do not dispute that it’s true. But when you cut taxes you end up spurring economic growth and you raise more government tax revenue then if you’d raised taxes. Considering democrats love to spend money you would think they would embrace this but they play the class warfare card every election so they have to vote against their own interests to hold power. Clinton was president when we had a minor surplus but had he had his way and done the health care and his other dream programs he would have had 400 and 500 billion dollar deficits. In fact he did have 100-300 billion dollar deficits his entire presidency up till the last year or so and that was because the dems had been ousted from congress in 1994 and he couldn’t get his hands on any juicy spending bills. As for Bush hey I don’t love the guy he was still better then Gore or Kerry but that really isn’t saying much is it. He has a tendency to pander to the left thinking they would support him and all they ever did was spit in his face. He let Ted write the education bill he gave you prescription drugs and he allowed Franks and Dodd to cause the banking collapse were in now. Had he been a true conservative this wouldn’t have happened but alas our primaries are a joke. The early states allow dems and independents to vote in the republican primaries and that how we got McCain.

But it was fun sparring with someone who could actually make a counter point for a change thanks again Charles

[Magnum Services]

Buy MORE Guns and Ammo!:usflag:

[IntegrityGuy]

He went out into the parking lot to see who brought this issue apon themselves. And let them chew on the big piece that they bit off.

[Mowbizz]

Buy MORE Guns and Ammo!:usflag:

+1 :usflag::usflag::usflag:

[mdvaden]

He has 120 employees and he likens his business to a family. During the election process he tried his best to let his employees know that voting for McCain would be the best thing for the business and the economy (in his opinion). He is not a political person so he certainly did not force anything on anyone.

After Obama won, he made the decision (was already planning to do this if Obama won) to cut back health benefits from 75% for his employees to only 50% and he had to let go of 35 employees.

He had no idea how he was going to do this. The he decided that what seemed most fair to him was going out into the parking lot of his employees cars and anyone who had an Obama sticker on their car would be the ones he would let go.

Is there a message here? I don't know. Is this even true? Not sure.... Is it the right way to make a decision like that? Not for me to say....

So my question for you is this -

How is Obama as President going to change how you run your business? How are you going to live differently in general? How do you think it will affect your ability to grow and prosper? Will you grow and prosper more? Will your business be in trouble? Will it even matter who is in office?

That's actually pretty brilliant in one way of looking at it.

Obama promised change - let them have it.

Now ... I saw an Obama / Biden bumper sticker on a window today. And it made me realize something I barely noticed before. There are far less Obama stickers remaining on vehicles than there normally should be now. Usually, quite a few people leave the stickers for a year or two.

But a lot of folks apparently are pulling the stickers much earlier because they must not want to be identified as someone who voted the senior talking head into office.

:)

[Hoy landscaping]

I will give him the same respect the same as the media who pounded w.No respect at all for the office or him.Nobama will get the same from me.He's not my president

aint my president either! someone said earlier that the 4 black guys he works with voted obama because hes black. thats the only reason hes in there. and anti bamas were beign called racist becasue they dont like him. well if that makes me racist, fine. ill be a racist if i can vote Palin

[Hoy landscaping]

Buy MORE Guns and Ammo!:usflag:

way ahead of u!

[mdlwn1]

I'm a republican and I voted for Obama. I had 2 major reasons. First...I wasnt voting for anyone running with palin. Second Mcain didnt really want it. If the republicans really want to gain control back..they really need to earn it.

[phasthound]

I was undecided until McCain picked Palin. No way would I want her to be a heartbeat away from being President.

[mikes landscaping]

Palin on her worst day would be better then that absolute moron we have in office now. He has his own agenda and does not care what the people want. Have you seen some of his speeches before his election, about how governement needs to be held accountable and the public needs to be involved in every aspect? What is he doing now? trying to censor everything and trying to push bills behind closed doors? He now wants to censor the internet? He has not done one thing he has promised. Never has someone promied so much and accomplished so little.

OBAMA is not my president. He is a disgrace

[garydale]

Palin on her worst day would be better then that absolute moron we have in office now. He has his own agenda and does not care what the people want. Have you seen some of his speeches before his election, about how governement needs to be held accountable and the public needs to be involved in every aspect? What is he doing now? trying to censor everything and trying to push bills behind closed doors? He now wants to censor the internet? He has not done one thing he has promised. Never has someone promied so much and accomplished so little.

OBAMA is not my president. He is a disgrace

I agree!, Palin would have brought common sense!

[delphied]

I have not seen any change that affects my business or the way I run it since the election and until now.

[mikeyJDeere]

Obama is the worst thing ever. His views and tactics simply dont measure up to what this country was built on. Everybody want it fair, fair this fair that. People who voted for him got what you wanted, now watch, we will all have to deal with the after math. Nationalize health care? are you kidding me, what is wrong with you people, i dont even know how 1 single person voted for this guy. Do you like prospering? do you like money? Its all gone now, the people that made it get pushed to the bottom while the dirtbags who never worked hard get handouts and eventually they will rise and you will be struggling. Eventually the dirtbags will fall again, but were gon have a rough 10 years.

[delphied]

Obama is the worst thing ever. His views and tactics simply dont measure up to what this country was built on. Everybody want it fair, fair this fair that. People who voted for him got what you wanted, now watch, we will all have to deal with the after math. Nationalize health care? are you kidding me, what is wrong with you people, i dont even know how 1 single person voted for this guy. Do you like prospering? do you like money? Its all gone now, the people that made it get pushed to the bottom while the dirtbags who never worked hard get handouts and eventually they will rise and you will be struggling. Eventually the dirtbags will fall again, but were gon have a rough 10 years.

I wasnt prospering under the Bush regime. Ive lost and the country lost under Bush. Who can deny that statement with any truth?

[mikeyJDeere]

we were all making buckets of money who are you kidding. I however do not blame the economic situation on obama, it prob is from republicans but guess what here was our cycle before:

Bush
1 Make a ton of money if you work hard, be smart invest.
2 Start to lay low and save, all good things come to an end.
3 deal with the down time (recessions) ..wait
4 ooooo here it comes jump back on the money train
5 step 1-4 repeating itself

Obama
1 work hard--get taxed--give it to illegals/lazy people who dont work
2 wait at the hospital for 3 hours and get terrible service and pay more for it..why? hey illegals want it too but for free so you pay.
3 your growth curve will look like this ___________________________
then recession will hit due to over governmental spending occurring and employing too many cops/teachers bla bla (people that do not create wealth) like entrepreneurs.

people have given up on him already polls prove it. I just graduated college, i got thrown into this, its sad how influential people are my age, they don't even know why they voted. Obama can only tax what runs through his greedy hands... like an ignorant person would say ... OBAMA!! btw inst that a Muslim terrorists name? What is wrong with the world. WAKE UP.

[NorthTXlawnguy]

There is so much more to this than Bush and Obama. I didn't vote for either (Libertarian). However, the financial crisis from the housing and stock markets was set into place during some very prosperous years for this country under the Clinton administration. My take on it is Clinton appointed many of the Fanny May and Freddie Mac executives early on and then his administration pressured them and the banks to be very leinient (sp?) with there lending practices...i.e. loans at 125% of value on houses and a.r.m.'s to name a couple. Also little or no $ down. This caused values to be inflated and when Bush comes along and the terrorist strike happens the economy was crippled ( I believe it was goign to happen sooner or later regrless of the strike). Then we get into another war and it all goes south.
Now we have Obama with his intentions, not all bad, but not all good either. The turn around always takes as long or longer than the downfall, just look at what FDR had to deal with. One could go on and on about many things, but I believe we should focus on local govt. and hope for the best.
I believe both major political parties don't give a rats ass about us common people and my plans are to buy a few more guns, but mostly gun powder and bullets for my reloading press just in case and investing in silver and gold.

[mikeyJDeere]

NorthTX i agree with everything you say, Clinton is a major part, the downfall is going to be long, we messed up hard this time. Obama is spending so much its really adding years to fixing the problem. Mostly though it comes down to marketing and greed, but those two will never die hahah.

[NorthTXlawnguy]

mikleyJDeere It goes back far further as well. It seems to me we feel the effects of a president years after they are out of office. Times where good for many during Clintons administration...who set that up?? Oh, a couple Republicans.. Bush Sr. didn't fare very well, but it was part of the Reaganomics collapsing. And Reagan was set up by Carter and did pretty good as well. Carter had it rough and was an outsider ( I admired him even if I traditionally like conservatives), but look at who he had to follow. What a mess. Enough of this, politics suck! Hope we all find a way to have a good 2010.

[Mahoney3223]

will everyone quit blaming all their problems on the president..when bush was in there everyone cried and said he sucked, now obama is in their and he's been there one friggin year and already he sucks bla bla bla...quit crying and go about your business you bunch of babies...90% of the jokes on here are one man blowhard lco's anyway...so obama's small biz plans aren't going to benefit you because you can't afford new equipment...so quit b^tching i m so tired of all the crying on this site

[NorthTXlawnguy]

will everyone quit blaming all their problems on the president..when bush was in there everyone cried and said he sucked, now obama is in their and he's been there one friggin year and already he sucks bla bla bla...quit crying and go about your business you bunch of babies...90% of the jokes on here are one man blowhard lco's anyway...so obama's small biz plans aren't going to benefit you because you can't afford new equipment...so quit b^tching i m so tired of all the crying on this site

Some of us are just having a discussion and looking at some points of interest. Personally the President doesn't affect my business, but the economy may to a certain point. And I just bought some new equipment and paid for advertising! Life is pretty good for me. I hope everyone finds a way to have a good year/decade.

[Turfrific]

the companys that took our work to other countrys stretched us thin and should of cared more about that instead of making more money. seen that one coming first time i noticed they were doing that, and im not even that smart and i knew that much. years after that i noticed people being sold 80 grand 100 grand houses for 300, 350 grand. i knew what was going to happen for that too, and i never even been through college? thoughs are the two things that have hurt us most, neither one never needed to happen oh yeah and obama didn't carry a one county in our state.:usflag:

[NorthTXlawnguy]

the companys that took our work to other countrys stretched us thin and should of cared more about that instead of making more money. seen that one coming first time i noticed they were doing that, and im not even that smart and i knew that much. years after that i noticed people being sold 80 grand 100 grand houses for 300, 350 grand. i knew what was going to happen for that too, and i never even been through college? thoughs are the two things that have hurt us most, neither one never needed to happen oh yeah and obama didn't carry a one county in our state.:usflag:

Those companies were highly enabled by NAFTA...Hmmm, who's administration did that? :hammerhead:
Off to the gym!:weightlifter:

[PROPERTYLAWNSERVICELLC]

grow my hair out keep all my old ragady azz cloathing get a che shirt beg on the corner for drinking money smoke dope buy a volvo put huge oblama stikers on it .
NO I wont do any the above I think we will see a 2012 tax revolt to over through the govt losers with a president like Ron Paul ,Wayne Allen Root ,or Sara Palin after four years of Marxist hussain obama traiter that he is .
I think Oblama will be impeached before 2012 myself.
Dont give up out there keep fighting

[Pro-Lawn&Grounds]

We all voted McCain/Palin? I sure a hell didn't. Maybe it has something to do with living in New Jersey but my buisness has been doing better since Obama won. And it's illegal to fire people over a bumper sticker leave alone immoral or what ever. I wish I was working for a company in which I was fired for something like that I'd push a law suit in a second ... and secondly ... Im tired of the bullshit ... McCain/Palin would have pushed immigration laws that would make it IMPOSSIBLE for 90% of the lawncare/landscaping companies in this entire country to function ... there is more to being the President of this great country then making the lawn care industry happy ... we are a world super power ... THE world super power ... the world is laughing at out immaturity towards a black president ... and yes its mainly because of his skin color that this man get so much sh*t

Obama 2012

[MnDLawn]

Didn't read the entire post, but I'll put my short comment in:

"****** Bag"

[JDUtah]

McCain/Palin would have pushed immigration laws that would make it IMPOSSIBLE for 90% of the lawncare/landscaping companies in this entire country to function ...

And where did you get these numbers?

[ttmoney]

Where was all of this when bush was in office?

[Kelly's Landscaping]

Nothing like 2 years of the clown to make my point he's every bit as bad if not worse then I said he would be in this very post in 08. MMMMMM ahhh the smell of victory I believe the deficits are 6 times higher the unemployment is nearly 18% on the U6 number which includes those who gave up looking. Oh and gas has doubled he has no energy policy no foreign policy and about the only thing he does well is take vacations more in 2 years then iv had my whole life.

[delphied]

Nothing like 2 years of the clown to make my point he's every bit as bad if not worse then I said he would be in this very post in 08. MMMMMM ahhh the smell of victory I believe the deficits are 6 times higher the unemployment is nearly 18% on the U6 number which includes those who gave up looking. Oh and gas has doubled he has no energy policy no foreign policy and about the only thing he does well is take vacations more in 2 years then iv had my whole life.

And he still hasnt taxed the rich. The reason this country is bankrupt to begin with.

[Kelly's Landscaping]

No we have a spending problem not an income problem and he would have loved to have raised the taxes he often says so. But when your trying to keep your party in power its not wise to do what you believe if your a Dem sometimes you need to pretend you've heard the people and wait to raise taxes later.

[AI Inc]

The reason this country is bankrupt to begin with.

is because we spend too much money. Sorry , if your billing $1 tril and still not getting by, its time to stop spending.

[Mark Oomkes]

And he still hasnt taxed the rich. The reason this country is bankrupt to begin with.

So, you apparently were delphied. Shouldn't GM and Delphi just have raised their prices and all their problems would have gone away and you would still be working the line?

Cuz that's what your proposing our gov't does.

When you were delphied, what was the first thing you did personally? Did you spend more money or did you cut costs?

[delphied]

I proposed that the govt go back to the same system of taxation that made our country flourish. Progressive taxation. Our country was strongest when the rich were taxed fairly. Bush came in along with the corporate owned lawmakers and passed tax laws accommodating the rich as well as the rich corporations. Dont believe me? Ask Warren Buffet. He is ashamed of the fact that percentage wise, he pays less tax than his secretary. Dont take your politics from Fox news. They are schills for the elite.

As for my spending, I had a great job and saved a good deal of money when I did have it. I retired with a full pension at age 50 and mow lawns to preserve my IRA funds until I need them. I buy what I want when I want it. If that is any of your business that is.

[AI Inc]

I proposed that the govt go back to the same system of taxation that made our country flourish. Progressive taxation. Our country was strongest when the rich were taxed fairly. Bush came in along with the corporate owned lawmakers and passed tax laws accommodating the rich as well as the rich corporations. Dont believe me? Ask Warren Buffet. He is ashamed of the fact that percentage wise, he pays less tax than his secretary. Dont take your politics from Fox news. They are schills for the elite.

As for my spending, I had a great job and saved a good deal of money when I did have it. I retired with a full pension at age 50 and mow lawns to preserve my IRA funds until I need them. I buy what I want when I want it. If that is any of your business that is.

So what did you pay in taxes this yr?

[Mark Oomkes]

I proposed that the govt go back to the same system of taxation that made our country flourish. Progressive taxation.

And I propose that private companies do the same, charge more to people who can afford it, less to the poor. This way GM could have stayed solvent without gubmint intervention.

Our country was strongest when the rich were taxed fairly.

Actually, we were strongest when we didn't have massive debts that we can't pay back.

Bush came in along with the corporate owned lawmakers and passed tax laws accommodating the rich as well as the rich corporations.

Corporations don't pay taxes. Might be news to you, but not to anyone with a clue how business works.

Dont believe me? Ask Warren Buffet. He is ashamed of the fact that percentage wise, he pays less tax than his secretary.

Yet he pays far more dollar wise. Stupid argument.

Dont take your politics from Fox news. They are schills for the elite.

I don't never have. I don't watch any of the major news outlets. I did watch the earthquake coverage from Fox and CNN while on vacation, which would make my viewing of either of those outlets around 100X as much as I have in the past.

As for my spending, I had a great job and saved a good deal of money when I did have it. I retired with a full pension at age 50 and mow lawns to preserve my IRA funds until I need them. I buy what I want when I want it. If that is any of your business that is.

Not sure if it is, but you claim higher taxes will save our country, while it has been determined that if every American was taxed 100% we still couldn't pay off our debt.

I made the point that GM should have charged more for their cars to prevent their bankruptcy\bailout.

Both are false and ignorant premises.

Neither had\have an income problem, they both have an outgo problem.

[humble1]

If a company makes bad decisiions like gm and folds so be it, survival. The rest of the market will absorb and grow.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mark Oomkes]

If a company makes bad decisiions like gm and folds so be it, survival. The rest of the market will absorb and grow.
Posted via Mobile Device

And the same should be the case for government and the "leaders" that caused it to fold.

[Kelly's Landscaping]

I proposed that the govt go back to the same system of taxation that made our country flourish. Progressive taxation. Our country was strongest when the rich were taxed fairly. Bush came in along with the corporate owned lawmakers and passed tax laws accommodating the rich as well as the rich corporations. Dont believe me? Ask Warren Buffet. He is ashamed of the fact that percentage wise, he pays less tax than his secretary. Dont take your politics from Fox news. They are schills for the elite.

As for my spending, I had a great job and saved a good deal of money when I did have it. I retired with a full pension at age 50 and mow lawns to preserve my IRA funds until I need them. I buy what I want when I want it. If that is any of your business that is.

Warren Buffet ?!?!? are you serious of course hes for higher income taxes he doesn't pay them his money is from investments and is a different tax rate all together why do you think rich liberals exist. If they were really paying what they want the rest of us to pay they would rebel in a second and demand we stop or no more contributions to the Democrats. Here is something to think on what you guys do with your progressive taxes is immoral and evil. Your side is fine with people being rich just not new ones becoming rich and so you put as many road blocks as possible to prevent it. The fair tax is by far the better system and hopefully we get to try it soon and end your sides class warfare to get elect once and for all. Instead we have a system where people who contribute nothing vote for benefits confiscated from their fellow Americans that's immoral.

[AI Inc]

Warren Buffet ?!?!? are you serious of course hes for higher income taxes he doesn't pay them his money is from investments and is a different tax rate all together why do you think rich liberals exist. If they were really paying what they want the rest of us to pay they would rebel in a second and demand we stop or no more contributions to the Democrats. Here is something to think on what you guys do with your progressive taxes is immoral and evil. Your side is fine with people being rich just not new ones becoming rich and so you put as many road blocks as possible to prevent it. The fair tax is by far the better system and hopefully we get to try it soon and end your sides class warfare to get elect once and for all. Instead we have a system where people who contribute nothing vote for benefits confiscated from their fellow Americans that's immoral.

Keep in mind also that the dude is old. He dosnt care if the income tax was 85% . He already made his money.

[humble1]

And the same should be the case for government and the "leaders" that caused it to fold.

right the democrats, I mean they are the reason for the bank and morgage failure. Glad you also want those leaders to fold.


Not sure how you relate GM going out and gov going to fold it is not at all related, but lets hear it.

[delphied]

Not sure if it is, but you claim higher taxes will save our country, while it has been determined that if every American was taxed 100% we still couldn't pay off our debt.

I made the point that GM should have charged more for their cars to prevent their bankruptcy\bailout.

Both are false and ignorant premises.

Neither had\have an income problem, they both have an outgo problem.

Your arguments are absurd. You better think again about corporate tax. Do a little research instead of just typing a response that sounds good to you.

[Kelly's Landscaping]

The tax argument will get very murky S corporations do not pay taxes I know that first hand I own one. The C corporations do but they need only invest at certain times and they can avoid allot of the taxes. Like you personal hero's the Clinton's do with foundations say you have a 10 million dollar year giving speeches. You state your giving 10 million to you foundation you get to write off the entire amount this year but take as long as you want to contribute the money. That's an extreme example but you can see how doing this can manipulate your tax bracket. And Bill and Hilary have done that very well. What did they go from 1 or 2 mill when they left office to over 100 mill when she ran for president.

But I think what Mark meant was corporations pass the taxes onto the consumer by charging more then they would of to cover the taxes. Which would be like the morons asking for the so called windfall profit taxes on the oil company's 2 years ago. they would of simply raised their prices and spent any extra on new platforms to avoid the taxes so in the end the corporation would of spend very little on new taxes but the consumer would of been soaked and then told we got even with the corporations for ya.

[delphied]

T
But I think what Mark meant was corporations pass the taxes onto the consumer by charging more then they would of to cover the taxes. Which would be like the morons asking for the so called windfall profit taxes on the oil company's 2 years ago. they would of simply raised their prices and spent any extra on new platforms to avoid the taxes so in the end the corporation would of spend very little on new taxes but the consumer would of been soaked and then told we got even with the corporations for ya.

Yes, this is the Republican mantra. If you tax a business, the consumer ends up paying it. The fact is, 66% of major corporations pay no tax through loopholes that our lawmakers have created. This has bankrupted our economy and did not create jobs. The people who take up the slack are people like you and me that are trying to remain in the middle class. If you think this system works well for you I guess you can keep right on voting for it. This will be my last comment because as they say,"You cant fix stupid".

[humble1]

And he still hasnt taxed the rich. The reason this country is bankrupt to begin with.

it has been proven time and time again how higher taxes will slow growth, lower taxes grows the economy, with the bush tax cuts on capital gains more people invested in stocks and real estate.

The rich you want to penalise creat most of the big jobs in this country.


Now I would be in favor of a fair tax based on what you buy, not how much you spend.

[humble1]

I wasnt prospering under the Bush regime. Ive lost and the country lost under Bush. Who can deny that statement with any truth?

Well if you werent doing well then thats on you.
01 bush came into a recession turned the economy around unemloyment rates were down, building boom, a house would go for sale Fri and get 3 offers over asking sold by monday.

Why did the morgage banking sector fall? Democrats forced banks to make loans to people who shouldnt have them..... Get you facts straight

[delphied]

Well if you werent doing well then thats on you.
01 bush came into a recession turned the economy around unemloyment rates were down, building boom, a house would go for sale Fri and get 3 offers over asking sold by monday.

Why did the morgage banking sector fall? Democrats forced banks to make loans to people who shouldnt have them..... Get you facts straight

No banks were forced to make the loans. They were allowed to under looser regulations. You now, less govt oversight. I will stick to my facts. You just cant fix stupid and so I so no hope for your future.

[humble1]

No banks were forced to make the loans. They were allowed to under looser regulations. You now, less govt oversight. I will stick to my facts. You just cant fix stupid and so I so no hope for your future.

Can't fix you can we, what exactly is looser regulation?. The facts are barney frank a dem and dodds brought forth suit so that banks had to give loans to the masses so that everyone had the oppourtunity for home ownership, and that those loans would be guaranteed by the gov. Including loans that were made to illegal alliens. These loans also fell into the no doc and no income verification loans. Loans were bundled then sold to fanny and fredie. This was the cause of the failure of fredie and fannie. People that had stock in freddie and fanny lost everything. This was the beggining of the bank failure. Would love to hear how you think it failed seeing you claim to have facts. Your right can't fix stupid.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mark Oomkes]

Yes, this is the Republican mantra.

Republican mantra? Seriously?

It is a reality, an undeniable fact.

If you tax a business, the consumer ends up paying it.

Well......yeah. Because if the consumer doesn't buy the product or service, there is nothing to tax.

The fact is, 66% of major corporations pay no tax through loopholes that our lawmakers have created.

Not sure about the percentage or what tax you are referring to, but to claim corporations pay absolutely no taxes is ludicrous.

Income tax? I could go with that, but not taxes as a whole. I can list several for you if you desire.

And yes, loopholes are stupid and a waste of time and money.

This has bankrupted our economy and did not create jobs.

No, credit and piss-poor money management has ruined our economy. And spending waste by our gov't.

The people who take up the slack are people like you and me that are trying to remain in the middle class.

Agreed.

If you think this system works well for you I guess you can keep right on voting for it. This will be my last comment because as they say,"You cant fix stupid".

You seem to like that comment, even though some of your comments are just that.

I stopped voting for this arrangement some time ago, but due to the lack of education and critical thinking capabilities of our populace, the majority haven't.

PS Nice to see it wasn't your last reply. :confused:

[Kelly's Landscaping]

Yes, this is the Republican mantra. If you tax a business, the consumer ends up paying it. The fact is, 66% of major corporations pay no tax through loopholes that our lawmakers have created. This has bankrupted our economy and did not create jobs. The people who take up the slack are people like you and me that are trying to remain in the middle class. If you think this system works well for you I guess you can keep right on voting for it. This will be my last comment because as they say,"You cant fix stupid".

Has it ever occurred to you that 66% of the major corporations are making little to no profits and thus have nothing too tax. By the way could you define a loophole so I know were talking about the same thing. Is it John Kerry registering his new yacht in Road Island to avoid 500k In Massachusetts taxes. Or are we talking about business deductions which are the tax code we all live under. I'm fine with getting rid of the entire code and going to the fair tax system and ending once and for all income tax. And yes that actually is a big gesture on my part I'm sitting on 180,000 in roll over deductions from past tax years. But I would gladly give that up if it meant ending progressive Tyranny which has been hampering this country for nearly 100 years.

[Mark Oomkes]

Has it ever occurred to you that 66% of the major corporations are making little to no profits and thus have nothing too tax. By the way could you define a loophole so I know were talking about the same thing. Is it John Kerry registering his new yacht in Road Island to avoid 500k In Massachusetts taxes. Or are we talking about business deductions which are the tax code we all live under. I'm fine with getting rid of the entire code and going to the fair tax system and ending once and for all income tax. And yes that actually is a big gesture on my part I'm sitting on 180,000 in roll over deductions from past tax years. But I would gladly give that up if it meant ending progressive Tyranny which has been hampering this country for nearly 100 years.

:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:

:drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup:

[Buck Hollow Lawn Care]

This nightmare will all be over soon enough! 1-20-13

[FaithNoMan]

Yeah, cause Newt's going to fly us to the 51st state!

[HLM HustlerZ]

First of all, this great President Obama didn't ever have the experience in politics or the private sector in the first place to become President of this great country. Just an FYI, he had never run a state, i.e. Governor or run his own company/business. He was a senator for what 180 something days and before that he was a Junior Senator. What I can't belive is about 52 percent of Americans voted for this guy?

Change, We can believe in!
Do you all remember that slogan 3 years ago? What change have we had since the end of '08? Higher gas prices and unemployment rates. The housing market has not improved at best. Gas prices were below $2.00/gallon before he became President a little over 3 years ago.

Less Government is better Government!