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Strawbridge Lawn
11-13-2008, 01:27 PM
Bidding on this job and would like a ballpark number to charge and time required using a CAT 257B.
approx 6200 sf. asphalt approx 3.75"-4" thick.
Equals 77Cy or 155 tons.

The dump fees are zero, and distance to dump site 4 miles round trip.
Assistance greatly appreciated.

Gravel Rat
11-13-2008, 01:53 PM
Do you have a breaker ?

Whos hauling the asphalt away ?

I never heard of places taking used asphalt for free.

Do you have a grapple bucket for your skid or a 4 in 1 ?

lawnboyblake
11-13-2008, 02:23 PM
I would use my Gehl 603 Mini and do the job in a day with 1 tandem for $7750

Gravel Rat
11-13-2008, 02:57 PM
I had to see what a Gehl 603 is and ya I agree with Lawnboy it would only take a day with a 12,000lb mini. A mini would be alot quicker than a skid steer.

mrsops
11-13-2008, 03:13 PM
I had to see what a Gehl 603 is and ya I agree with Lawnboy it would only take a day with a 12,000lb mini. A mini would be alot quicker than a skid steer.

How do you figure it would be easier using a mini ex then a skid steer?? i would eat that job alive with my s330

bobcat_ron
11-13-2008, 03:39 PM
I've peeled pavement 2" thick, enough to fill an average gravel truck in less than 10 minutes flat, I can do it faster and cleaner than an excavator.

Scag48
11-13-2008, 04:35 PM
I've never peeled asphalt with a skid, but excavators seem to break up asphalt way too much. You end up making a bigger mess than is needed with an excavator, asphalt just falls apart once you try to lift it. It's defiantely easier to break up with an excavator, but getting it off the ground and loading with a skid steer would be ideal.

Junior M
11-13-2008, 05:06 PM
This might be to expensive to buy a new bucket for one job but what if you used a slab crab like NateV has to pick up big chunks of it instead of dragging and breaking it up? Just thinking outloud...

bobcat_ron
11-13-2008, 05:11 PM
A grapple bucket really works good and makes short work of it.

GradeMan
11-13-2008, 05:57 PM
So what do you think for a BC price's ron?
I know in my neck of woods that job would go for less than 1500 bucks, Time limit less then 5 hrs or you might as well go stand in the welfare line.
With your skid I would say you will be the day, and spend most of that time trying to break it into smaller pieces. I hope you have a driver for your dump truck. I'd say you would need atleast 1500 to make any money.

GradeMan
11-13-2008, 05:59 PM
"lawnboyblake I would use my Gehl 603 Mini and do the job in a day with 1 tandem for $7750 "

If I could get that kind of money for that small of a job I'd have millions in the bank:cool2::cool2::laugh:

mrsops
11-13-2008, 06:35 PM
I've never peeled asphalt with a skid, but excavators seem to break up asphalt way too much. You end up making a bigger mess than is needed with an excavator, asphalt just falls apart once you try to lift it. It's defiantely easier to break up with an excavator, but getting it off the ground and loading with a skid steer would be ideal.

I have peeled asphalt up plenty times with a skid. Just get that one edge up then your in. I mean i may bring my mini just to grab the edges and lift them up maybe make a few piles for the skid but def easier loading and getting done faster with my bobcat skid.

mrsops
11-13-2008, 06:37 PM
"lawnboyblake I would use my Gehl 603 Mini and do the job in a day with 1 tandem for $7750 "

If I could get that kind of money for that small of a job I'd have millions in the bank:cool2::cool2::laugh:

yeah really $7750? even if you have to pay to dump the asphalt the job is still no where near that price

Canon Landscaping
11-13-2008, 07:25 PM
I would do it for $1200 in about 5 hours with a skid and dump truck.

GradeMan
11-13-2008, 07:25 PM
Well mrsops, In my neck of woods dump fees are nothing... The guy has a free dumpsite, 4 mile round trip, This whole job comes down to is how good the operator is
at getting this little job done. This is a half day job with a larger mini. Floated in and out

What would this job be worth in your neck of the woods?
How much are your dump fees?

bobcat_ron
11-13-2008, 07:48 PM
So what do you think for a BC price's ron?
I know in my neck of woods that job would go for less than 1500 bucks, Time limit less then 5 hrs or you might as well go stand in the welfare line.
With your skid I would say you will be the day, and spend most of that time trying to break it into smaller pieces. I hope you have a driver for your dump truck. I'd say you would need atleast 1500 to make any money.

If it was my job in my woods, 16 loads of pavement, 1 hour each to dump site (free site) 16 x $80 (hourly rate) $1280
Loading time and prep time using skid steer $65 x 5 hours= $325
Total = $1605. Add up haul charges and add in any "unknown' costs, say maybe $300 to be safe, Grand Total (including local taxes) = $2000.00

Again, that would be my price if it were right in my 'hood where it's a 1 hour round trip, 15 minutes loading, 20 minutes driving, 5 minutes dumping, 20 minutes driving back and extra time stuck in traffic, taking a pee, getting coffee, etc, etc, etc.

mrsops
11-13-2008, 07:49 PM
Well mrsops, In my neck of woods dump fees are nothing... The guy has a free dumpsite, 4 mile round trip, This whole job comes down to is how good the operator is
at getting this little job done. This is a half day job with a larger mini. Floated in and out

What would this job be worth in your neck of the woods?
How much are your dump fees?

anywhere from $1500-2000.

Kepple Services
11-13-2008, 10:32 PM
Here the asphalt is free to dump, the same places we take concrete. I would be around $2000-$2500 for the job total.

Dirtman2007
11-13-2008, 10:47 PM
I wouldn't even bother using my mini equipment. I'd bring in the 50,000lbs excavator and a tri axle dump truck. Knock it out in a short day and call it done. a big machine with a big bucket will be able to pick it up in 4x4' hunks and be able to stack it in a truck to get the maximum amount on the truck. Might even bring the small mini to pick up the little pieces but I can usually do it without it. That would be a gravy job. My bid would be $2000, maybe a little less.

mrsops
11-13-2008, 10:50 PM
I wouldn't even bother using my mini equipment. I'd bring in the 50,000lbs excavator and a tri axle dump truck. Knock it out in a short day and call it done. a big machine with a big bucket will be able to pick it up in 4x4' hunks and be able to stack it in a truck to get the maximum amount on the truck. Might even bring the small mini to pick up the little pieces but I can usually do it without it. That would be a gravy job. My bid would be $2000, maybe a little less.

that's if you can get that big baby in there. It may require small equipment where the hell is the guy that started this thread :laugh:

bobcatuser
11-13-2008, 11:07 PM
If you can have a truck loaded under 20 minutes, it should be a one day thing(hauling 4 mile rounds). Estimating 4Ē pavement at 450 sq. ft. per box is 14 boxes.

In my area it would be, max 10 min load time per.
14 boxes x 2 hr return trip = 28 hrs. / 7.5 hrs = 4 hired trucks 28 hrs. x $90 hr = $2520
8 hrs Bobcat T320 x $105 hr = $840 + Move $150 = $990
no disposal cost
Total estimate $3510

lawnboyblake
11-14-2008, 12:21 AM
I think all u guys are underpricing this job. I ALWAYS bid concrete removal jobs at 1.25-1.5 per square foot up to 5000Sf, and the rate goes down after that size. That is the hauled away price so I am paying for the tandem or tandems. Asphalt is easier to remove than concrete most of the time but this is 4" thick in places so I would rate it like concrete. Hourly prices dont make big gains, thats the reason for pricing things by the job and not hourly.....

GradeMan
11-14-2008, 05:00 AM
They guy asked what the job would cost, Well that depends on the hourly rate of equipment in your area but If a guy can get more all the better.

bobcatuser
8 hrs Bobcat T320 x $105 hr = $840 + Move $150 = $990
You get that kind of money for a skid steer???
I would love to be in your market area.
:canadaflag:

bobcatuser
11-14-2008, 09:41 AM
They guy asked what the job would cost, Well that depends on the hourly rate of equipment in your area but If a guy can get more all the better.

bobcatuser
8 hrs Bobcat T320 x $105 hr = $840 + Move $150 = $990
You get that kind of money for a skid steer???
I would love to be in your market area.
:canadaflag:

Thatís the base rate for the Bobcat T320, I have other attachments that are extra. This machine is not an average skid steer itís a rubber track 10,000lb 92 horsepower loader, the rate might seem high but so is my overhead costs.

I think all u guys are underpricing this job. I ALWAYS bid concrete removal jobs at 1.25-1.5 per square foot up to 5000Sf, and the rate goes down after that size. That is the hauled away price so I am paying for the tandem or tandems. Asphalt is easier to remove than concrete most of the time but this is 4" thick in places so I would rate it like concrete. Hourly prices dont make big gains, thats the reason for pricing things by the job and not hourly.....

Hourly prices donít have big profit, but you can work every day and not have to be constantly looking for work. It will find you.

bobcat_ron
11-14-2008, 10:24 AM
They guy asked what the job would cost, Well that depends on the hourly rate of equipment in your area but If a guy can get more all the better.

bobcatuser
8 hrs Bobcat T320 x $105 hr = $840 + Move $150 = $990
You get that kind of money for a skid steer???
I would love to be in your market area.
:canadaflag:

It does seen high, especially since my brother charges out the D4 at $110 per hour, but if you think about it, even the guys with 3 ton mini excavators need to charge at least $65 per hour if not more to cover the costs of fuel and payments.
If that T320 was worked hard for a 10 hour day, it would be tanking up with fuel twice, so $105 per hour is very reasonable.

mrsops
11-14-2008, 12:40 PM
I rarely do it by hourly rate by me. Its either a half day or full day. for instance my t190 goes out half day i get $325 full day i get $650. usally its an 8 hour day so if i work a full 8 hour day and i make $650 its like getting $80 an hour. But then again if i get stuck working 10 hours its like only making $65 an hour thats why i like half day or full day better

Gravel Rat
11-14-2008, 02:50 PM
If a home owner or business owner here was being charged 7 grand to remove some asphalt the home owner would be doing it themselves by hand.

Disposing of asphalt is the big problem it has to go to the paving contractor and you pay to get rid of it which ranges from 150-250 dollars a ton.

You get caught dumping asphalt illegally your looking at a decent fine.

Strawbridge Lawn
11-14-2008, 04:05 PM
Thanks so much for your input.

What I do know thus far: The trucker will do the job for $600.00 flat fee 7-8 loads Approx) no dump fees as pit recylces.

My RC-30 won't man up for this so CAT rental providing a toothed bucket 257b for about $675 delivered/picked up
per day.

I will have my machine on site to remove about 9 tons
of paver walkways and two patios. charging about $700.00

I figure 1.5 days (being safe) and will have to clean out
around garage doors have 3 man cre including me in machine.

I hope the 257b is up to the task..

Total Bid about $2,895.00 thus far..

ksss
11-14-2008, 07:09 PM
I think all u guys are underpricing this job. I ALWAYS bid concrete removal jobs at 1.25-1.5 per square foot up to 5000Sf, and the rate goes down after that size. That is the hauled away price so I am paying for the tandem or tandems. Asphalt is easier to remove than concrete most of the time but this is 4" thick in places so I would rate it like concrete. Hourly prices dont make big gains, thats the reason for pricing things by the job and not hourly.....


I would be around .75 depending on the job site. I have used skid steers for this as well and they can be fast. It depends on if asphalt is going back in or not. If it is then I would use an excavator. Like metioned it is fast as well and you don't tear up the subgrade. Four inch asphalt can but tough to pull out depending on what the ambient air temp it. An excavator would likely be better suited if the asphalt is that thick and cold. Using a bigger bucket on an excavator works well. I certainly wouldn't mobilize a 50K excavator in for this job but you use what you have I guess. I wouldn't even mob in my 160 unless it was close by.
I also prefer to bid by the square foot if possible. However like with concrete removal you need to look at the job and consider access and the like.

Gravel Rat
11-14-2008, 07:28 PM
A contractor here would use a 16 ton machine if the job is on the way to another job. Do the asphalt removal haul it away load up the machine and head to the next job.

bobcatuser
11-14-2008, 07:33 PM
If a home owner or business owner here was being charged 7 grand to remove some asphalt the home owner would be doing it themselves by hand.

Disposing of asphalt is the big problem it has to go to the paving contractor and you pay to get rid of it which ranges from 150-250 dollars a ton.

You get caught dumping asphalt illegally your looking at a decent fine.

Asphalt disposal is $150-$250 ton??? did I read that correct:dizzy:

bobcat_ron
11-14-2008, 07:36 PM
We have a free site for it, using it as road base in a bottomless bog.

bobcatuser
11-14-2008, 07:42 PM
Thanks so much for your input.

What I do know thus far: The trucker will do the job for $600.00 flat fee 7-8 loads Approx) no dump fees as pit recylces.

My RC-30 won't man up for this so CAT rental providing a toothed bucket 257b for about $675 delivered/picked up
per day.

I will have my machine on site to remove about 9 tons
of paver walkways and two patios. charging about $700.00

I figure 1.5 days (being safe) and will have to clean out
around garage doors have 3 man cre including me in machine.

I hope the 257b is up to the task..

Total Bid about $2,895.00 thus far..

What size truck are you using to haul. I'm guessing it must be a Tri axle, will you be able to load that high with a 257b?

mrsops
11-14-2008, 07:49 PM
What size truck are you using to haul. I'm guessing it must be a Tri axle, will you be able to load that high with a 257b?

better have low sides :laugh:

ksss
11-14-2008, 07:50 PM
I would try and get a grapple bucket. It will be much more productive. Also if it is truly 4" thick you will be more productive with a larger machine.

SiteSolutions
11-14-2008, 09:13 PM
Larger skid steer, and I think you are getting ripped off at 700 bucks for a day with a skid steer? 700 bucks here will get you a smaller real track loader or good medium sized trackhoe, delivered... a machine big enough you can't (or shouldn't anyway) haul it around with a one ton truck.

I'm not real sharp on my Cat specs but the 257 isn't really a big 'un, and you should definitely consider whether you can load the truck(s) with it. My T-190 will load some tri-axles ok but it is always a stretch and usually a pain in the butt. You will probably have to make a ramp out of the sub base so you can get the truck loaded full enough and then slick that ramp back down when done. Even with a ramp there are some triaxles that are just impossible to get a good full load in a timely manner using a smaller machine. Ask the hauler ahead of time if he has a truck that would be better for you... one hauler I use has a couple older Macks with wood sideboards at the top that can be taken off easily enough... the extra 7.5 inches really helps.

Also, to jump on the hourly vs daily bandwagon, I tend to try to get a half or whole day rate for things, which I usually keep to myself and just estimate the time it might take if things go average (not perfect but not too bad), and then figure that times my daily / half day rate, and give them a lump price. I have given a few repeat customers those daily numbers so they know what to expect in general. A very select few have gotten me to give them an hourly rate but like somebody else said, doing that was to keep the business coming in steadily. One particular guy, one of my best customers last year, gets an hourly rate from me because he just can't get his head around the concept of paying by the half or whole day. He helped me get my start though and I don't mind, although I tend to take it easy and not push the machine hard when I am on his jobs since there is no benefit to that.

Gravel Rat
11-14-2008, 10:31 PM
Asphalt disposal is $150-$250 ton??? did I read that correct:dizzy:


Yes you did because it has to be ground up or crushed. I was told by the highways dept and the muni you can not bury chunks of asphalt.

Gravel Rat
11-14-2008, 10:36 PM
Your better off trying to get some low side rolloff boxes dropped off it would be easier and cleaner to load with a skid steer.

SiteSolutions
11-14-2008, 10:38 PM
Yes you did because it has to be ground up or crushed. I was told by the highways dept and the muni you can not bury chunks of asphalt.

Good ole Canada, land of opportunity. Makes me thankful things here aren't that nuts... yet.

GradeMan
11-14-2008, 11:02 PM
anywhere from $1500-2000.

is that for the job ?

bobcatexc
11-14-2008, 11:24 PM
The trucker will do the job for $600.00 flat fee 7-8 loads Approx) no dump fees as pit recylces.

I sure hope this $600 is agreed to complete the whole removal of the job and not just 7-8 loads. Cause I want to know what your going to do with the other 8 loads you didn't figure in. Good luck to you if you really think there's 77CY there!

I just love when bidding againist a landscaper with a skidsteer, just a practice in estimating, cause they know all about the excavating business.:hammerhead: I'm done, carry on!

Gravel Rat
11-14-2008, 11:53 PM
Good ole Canada, land of opportunity. Makes me thankful things here aren't that nuts... yet.

Asphalt is classed as hazzardous waste because of the oil :rolleyes:

Broken up concrete is the same it can't be buried near a marshy area or streem or creeks.

mrsops
11-15-2008, 12:43 AM
is that for the job ?

thats with out dumping fees..

GradeMan
11-15-2008, 08:02 AM
I sure hope this $600 is agreed to complete the whole removal of the job and not just 7-8 loads. Cause I want to know what your going to do with the other 8 loads you didn't figure in. Good luck to you if you really think there's 77CY there!

I just love when bidding againist a landscaper with a skidsteer, just a practice in estimating, cause they know all about the excavating business.:hammerhead: I'm done, carry on!

I love it too, :laugh:

RockSet N' Grade
11-15-2008, 08:52 AM
I started using this phrase when landscapers start asking me for prices so they can do the work instead of hiring me.......how much is this gonna cost? My reply is :" a dollar-two-ninty-eight". They scratch their head and I quickly change the subject or walk away.....An old excavator buddy of mine pulled that one on me and sat there while I digested the nonsense and then we both laughed.....It means nothing, but is an answer that gives you time to back peddle and move on.

mrsops
11-15-2008, 09:06 AM
I love it too, :laugh:

he forgot to add the 20% factor that the asphalt is not going to sit flat in the truck. All said and done i bet you got a 100 yds

YellowDogSVC
11-15-2008, 09:57 AM
Is that used asphalt for for anything? Can it be reapplied to a gravel road?

YellowDogSVC
11-15-2008, 10:02 AM
I just love when bidding againist a landscaper with a skidsteer, just a practice in estimating, cause they know all about the excavating business.:hammerhead: I'm done, carry on!

What about helping the guy out instead of bashing landscapers? You never know when a landscaper may want to hire an excavating business to help with a large install..

stuvecorp
11-15-2008, 11:17 AM
Is that used asphalt for for anything? Can it be reapplied to a gravel road?

Here they are crushing/grinding it up and selling back as a driveway material or it gets mixed in with recycled base.

AintNoFun
11-15-2008, 11:50 AM
I just love when bidding againist a landscaper with a skidsteer, just a practice in estimating, cause they know all about the excavating business.:hammerhead: I'm done, carry on!


so your in the excavating business posting in a landscapers forum?

AWJ Services
11-15-2008, 01:23 PM
Is there Base under the Asphalt?

Gravel Rat
11-15-2008, 01:47 PM
The last utility job I worked on the asphalt was taken to the recycler they crushed it and the truck hauled it down hauled it back and it was used for backfill.

The good stuff is the ground up asphalt from the road groover/reclaimer but the highways dept gets that and makes cold patch out of it.

Strawbridge Lawn
11-15-2008, 02:00 PM
For those of you who are in the excavating business I asked for help not ego. I very much appreciate the responses as this is how we learn and keep mistakes less costly. We help each other. This is my first job like this
so remember when it was your first,, if you can.
I have the job bidded for 10 tri axle (18 ton) loads.
and used this site to help.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/asphaltmixcalc.html
I was not happy with the CAT rental price either and the
back hoe option is still working. The trucker was
going to take the wood top rail off for 257 dump in
(mayne with small ramp). I am going to the site Monday before submitting bid to ensure depth and base issues.
I have always believed to be diversified in the things you like to do means you have more opportunities available. I know what I shpould and should not take on as a job based on the expertise that I have available to me away from and on his forum. Thank you for your input and
any further suggestions are appreciated.

AWJ Services
11-15-2008, 04:31 PM
It could have 4 to 6 inches of base as well.
10 loads should do the asphalt.

RockSet N' Grade
11-15-2008, 05:01 PM
Strawbridge...just a thought.....since you have priced in a rental price on a skid, is there any way you could find someone with a skid who is willing to do the work for the price you figured just for rental? If you could, that would free you up a bit. I would also suggest several clauses in your contract, to be clear: asphalt bid at 4" maximum thickness, no removal of sub-base, rough grade area only, not responsible for pipes,wires,sprinkler repair, etc. that may be buried just under asphalt top and make sure you get it all blue staked before you begin. Hope you get the job and do well. Report back with how it went and the accounting. Hope the above helps.....

AWJ Services
11-15-2008, 05:13 PM
Good points.

I rent myself and equipment out a bunch.
It works out good for both parties.
Find a guy with a bigger skid that wants to work and use your machine to help as well.
I bet you can get someone to do it for 600 a day.

ksss
11-15-2008, 07:11 PM
For those of you who are in the excavating business I asked for help not ego. I very much appreciate the responses as this is how we learn and keep mistakes less costly. We help each other. This is my first job like this
so remember when it was your first,, if you can.
I have the job bidded for 10 tri axle (18 ton) loads.
and used this site to help.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/asphaltmixcalc.html
I was not happy with the CAT rental price either and the
back hoe option is still working. The trucker was
going to take the wood top rail off for 257 dump in
(mayne with small ramp). I am going to the site Monday before submitting bid to ensure depth and base issues.
I have always believed to be diversified in the things you like to do means you have more opportunities available. I know what I shpould and should not take on as a job based on the expertise that I have available to me away from and on his forum. Thank you for your input and
any further suggestions are appreciated.


I think you are on the right track. Diversification is the key these days, it is also the lesson I learned in the mid 90's. I started out by landscaping, and expanded into excavation. Spreading yourself out within the scope of your abilities will keep you moving when others are not. What I learned quickly was that excavation had a much longer work season than did landscaping. This is an easy job to make some money on and expand your capabilities.

I would also consider a backhoe instead of the 257. If you do this with a skid steer, you will need a machine with great breakout. Four inches of asphalt in cold conditions will be time consuming to get through with a machine as weak as a 257 B2. This machine has less than 4000 pounds of bucket breakout and only 56 hp net (as I recall). If your using a 73" bucket your spreading that 4K pounds over that 73" bucket. That is not a machine you want to use to pull up 4" asphalt. Again a grapple bucket will speed the process greatly. You can clamp down on the asphalt, roll the bucket and snap the asphalt in a usable chunk. It maybe so time consuming that if you go that way, I would not schedule any trucks until all the asphalt is pulled up. I would pile it up first, call for trucks then just load . That will keep you from paying for a truck sitting while your trying to pull up asphalt. A backhoe with a thumb (might be hard to find rental) and or a 4 in 1 will make loading much easier.

YellowDogSVC
11-15-2008, 07:19 PM
[QUOTE=Strawbridge Lawn;2604399]For those of you who are in the excavating business I asked for help not ego. I very much appreciate the responses as this is how we learn and keep mistakes less costly. We help each other. This is my first job like this
so remember when it was your first,, if you can.
I have the job bidded for 10 tri axle (18 ton) loads.
and used this site to help.
[
I'm glad someone spoke up...

I get sick of egos on here... ughhh.. I get enough of that from local builders.. I don't go around with an ego on a tree cutting or mulching job. I'm the nice guy who wants to help. Geez, how many excavators have a bachelor's or higher degree and can spell? :)

Glad you spoke up. I for one like to see a landscaper dabble in other services. I am thinking of dabbling in landscaping since it compliments my clearing and grinding and chipping. Ditto for excavation, which I used to dabble in. I may want to get back in it but unless someone is posting something I think is unsafe (my pet peeve) you probably won't get much ego out of old Yellow Dog. I come here to share ideas and strong opinions.

AWJ Services
11-15-2008, 08:03 PM
This is my first job like this
so remember when it was your first,, if you can.

Everyone starts at the same place.
0 experience.
No one is born knowing this stuff.

Bob Horrell
11-15-2008, 08:20 PM
I just did a very similar job with a little farther drive time, but not much. I used my Bobcat S250 with loegering tracks and 4in1 bucket, and my triaxle dump truck. I was able to park the dump truck right next to the asphalt I was removing. My dump fees were $0. It took me less than one day and a half and I made $1,800. It was an easy job on my loader and my dump truck and I burned less than $50 in diesel total. I would take this kind of job every day if I could.

bobcatuser
11-15-2008, 09:23 PM
Originally Posted by bobcatuser
Asphalt disposal is $150-$250 ton??? did I read that correct

Yes you did because it has to be ground up or crushed. I was told by the highways dept and the muni you can not bury chunks of asphalt.

Why not get the contract to dispose of it? Swanson's Ready-mix in Sechelt sells recycled concrete, they must have a crusher. At $150 ton that's $2250 per tandem.

bobcatuser
11-15-2008, 09:35 PM
For those of you who are in the excavating business I asked for help not ego. I very much appreciate the responses as this is how we learn and keep mistakes less costly. We help each other. This is my first job like this
so remember when it was your first,, if you can.
I have the job bidded for 10 tri axle (18 ton) loads.
and used this site to help.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/asphaltmixcalc.html
I was not happy with the CAT rental price either and the
back hoe option is still working. The trucker was
going to take the wood top rail off for 257 dump in
(mayne with small ramp). I am going to the site Monday before submitting bid to ensure depth and base issues.
I have always believed to be diversified in the things you like to do means you have more opportunities available. I know what I shpould and should not take on as a job based on the expertise that I have available to me away from and on his forum. Thank you for your input and
any further suggestions are appreciated.

When you go back on Monday bring a cordless drill and masonry bit for test holes. Asphalt is usually thicker on the edges and near driveway entrances.

That volume calculator is a little misleading, you will need extra material to compensate for compaction with most material. Itís only for Installation jobs not for estimating removal.

The best way explain swell factor is. Compare excavated material to a block of cheese. If you grated the cheese its volume will increase. Experience with different material is the best way to estimate, you can get charts that will list the specific volume density.

Another important thing to consider is, working in the rain. Dirt is similar to the block of cheese, when its compacted water will run off the surface in most situations. If you break through the surface (grated cheese) then add water, it will turn to mush.

Itís good to see someone trying to make an educated guess vs. throwing high number and hoping it works out.:drinkup:

Gravel Rat
11-15-2008, 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by bobcatuser
Asphalt disposal is $150-$250 ton??? did I read that correct



Why not get the contract to dispose of it? Swanson's Ready-mix in Sechelt sells recycled concrete, they must have a crusher. At $150 ton that's $2250 per tandem.


There is a private contractor that crushes material. I don't know much about the regs about used asphalt all I know is you can't bury it in the back yard legally.

bobcatexc
11-16-2008, 12:08 AM
I get sick of egos on here... ughhh..

For one yellowdog I usually sit back and just read the posts to hear what's new in equipment and the industry and how well they work in real life situations. The problem I have is when I go out and bid against somebody like this and they don't really know what their bidding and I get low balled because because their using website to calculated asphalt which is for new construction and not set up removal which you have to allow for swell just like tearing out concrete. I'm all for helping somebody out and passing on information and knowledge on how to do new things, just hope someday it don't slap you in the face, because you taught your competition your methods that work. I know strawbridge isn't in my area, but you never know who is watching in your area and want's to get into the business.

Strawbridge:
I would still take a look at how many trucks you have. Like the other said I would look at subbing it out for $600. I don't know what the site is like, but if I was renting I would get a 304 or 305 with a thumb for that price. I know it's a rental, but why do you need tracks for demo, check a rubber tired skid, probably little cheaper. I did a job like this couple months ago, when bidding I figured old, small commercial parking lot probably 4", but to be safe I figured 6". When I did it was more like 6-8", thank goodness for figuring on the high side.

AWJ Services
11-16-2008, 12:55 AM
For one yellowdog I usually sit back and just read the posts to hear what's new in equipment and the industry and how well they work in real life situations. The problem I have is when I go out and bid against somebody like this and they don't really know what their bidding and I get low balled because because their using website to calculated asphalt which is for new construction and not set up removal which you have to allow for swell just like tearing out concrete. I'm all for helping somebody out and passing on information and knowledge on how to do new things, just hope someday it don't slap you in the face, because you taught your competition your methods that work. I know strawbridge isn't in my area, but you never know who is watching in your area and want's to get into the business.

Excellent points.
I will add at one time you where the guy who possibly underbid someone as well when you started.
That is one of the points of asking these seemingly stupid questions.
It is to everyones advantage to get the guy to bid the job right.

Strawbridge Lawn
11-16-2008, 08:19 AM
BOBCAT: I understand. But I am not bidding against you and those you are bidding against may/may not be here trying to get it as right as possible. You are bidding against inexperience and the mistake is usially theirs as they have to east it in some way. It demonstrates the value of this site when used as it was intended.
I actually realized that it was for new pavement before posting here, and also was concerned about how much base material was to be added. I went with ten, if more I left about $150 extra in the removal bid in case of that.
I have a call in to an experienced Backhoe operator to
see if he is willing to do this. Appreciate those directional thoughts as they have motivated me in that direction. Actuall costs less to rent thana 257b. I get to watch more and learn more of this one.
I will be staying away from the Apron so will core drill Monday and depth will be verified. My 3 ton dump will be on-site the second day should any material not get removed as planned. Do you recommend a jack hammer around the gargae door joints or do you think I can pop those areas out with my rc30 with forks or bucket corner?
Narrowing in on the solution.. Thanks

RockSet N' Grade
11-16-2008, 09:18 AM
If you get a backhoe and operator he can pretty well get close to the garage area. What you may need is a square nosed shovel, have a breaker bar on hand to pry it from the top and away vs. underneath where you can't see if you have hooked the concrete or not. If you have a good hoe driver, you will end up just watching and maybe cleaning his corners and edges. Any saw cutting involved? A quickie saw on hand to cut a piece so the guy can get his bucket started may be appropriate. If you can locate and mark any sprinkler lines or such it may help too. We carry a "patch kit" filled with poly pipe fittings and pvc fittings and several lengths of pipe and glue for those occasions when we find something unexpected. Any hosebibs in the area to be dug? We also carry a shut off key for water and know where the water turn off is before the job is started.

GradeMan
11-16-2008, 10:02 AM
straw

Just keep ahead of the dump truck, Break the asphalt into the smallest pieces as possible and stock pile it, When the truck arrives you simply just load him and keep him busy to cut down your truck expenses, It would hurt to start a day ahead of the truck showing up.
When do you find out if got the job?
Good luck

PlatinumLandCon
11-16-2008, 10:24 AM
There is a private contractor that crushes material. I don't know much about the regs about used asphalt all I know is you can't bury it in the back yard legally.

I have a concrete and asphalt recycler near me and they are deep in enviro canada to run the business. Asphalt is considered toxic and needs to be regulated like GR says.

YellowDogSVC
11-16-2008, 11:00 AM
For one yellowdog I usually sit back and just read the posts to hear what's new in equipment and the industry and how well they work in real life situations. The problem I have is when I go out and bid against somebody like this and they don't really know what their bidding and I get low balled because because their using website to calculated asphalt which is for new construction and not set up removal which you have to allow for swell just like tearing out concrete. I'm all for helping somebody out and passing on information and knowledge on how to do new things, just hope someday it don't slap you in the face, because you taught your competition your methods that work. I know strawbridge isn't in my area, but you never know who is watching in your area and want's to get into the business.



Oh, I have been burned by talking to the competition and I have made friends by talking to the competition. I choose to believe that the low ballers will go out of business or not finish the project. I have picked up plenty of that type of work..finishing the low baller's or fixing the low baller's jobs so I don't worry too much. If your prices are fair, and you aren't trying to make a killing on each job, and you provide quality work, you will survive against low ballers, start ups, and other contractors.

ksss
11-16-2008, 11:26 AM
Oh, I have been burned by talking to the competition and I have made friends by talking to the competition.

As have I, but by making friends with some of the competition is very benificial. I have a circle of friends in the business that I can call on when I need a hand with a piece of equipment or additional trucks. They do the same when they need something. We share info on who pays and who doesn't. It is about impossible to be an island by yourself in this business. That doesn't mean you need to totally tip your hand, but by working with others has always paid off for me. I have gotten ripped a couple of times, but what comes around goes around.

Strawbridge Lawn
11-16-2008, 01:33 PM
The dump turn around on this job is about 15-20 min max so
the operator will be busy. I drove one once when I worked for a
highway department in the 80's so I am not qualified on anything but a track loader or compact excavator.

GradeMan
11-16-2008, 02:30 PM
The dump turn around on this job is about 15-20 min max so
the operator will be busy. I drove one once when I worked for a
highway department in the 80's so I am not qualified on anything but a track loader or compact excavator.


What??????????

bobcat_ron
11-16-2008, 03:11 PM
The dump turn around on this job is about 15-20 min max so
the operator will be busy. I drove one once when I worked for a
highway department in the 80's so I am not qualified on anything but a track loader or compact excavator.

Not qualified??
Hell, I'm running around with no "special" helmut on my head 24/7, but that doesn't mean I'm not "qualified" to operate heavy equipment most of the time.

ksss
11-16-2008, 03:54 PM
Not qualified??
Hell, I'm running around with no "special" helmut on my head 24/7, but that doesn't mean I'm not "qualified" to operate heavy equipment most of the time.


I don't know if you meant that to be funny but I laughed, especially the qualifier at the end "most of the time".:laugh:

bobcat_ron
11-16-2008, 04:54 PM
I don't know if you meant that to be funny but I laughed, especially the qualifier at the end "most of the time".:laugh:

The license plate on my big boy tricycle reads "WE-TOD-DID". :laugh:

Lazer_Z
11-16-2008, 05:11 PM
The license plate on my big boy tricycle reads "WE-TOD-DID". :laugh:You sick,sick,sick b@stard
http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/lol-045.gif

Strawbridge Lawn
11-16-2008, 06:52 PM
he he he..I meant the backhoe operator would be busy trying to get
material together before the dump truck gets back as turn arounf is quick.