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DeepGreenLawn
11-14-2008, 09:01 AM
OK, so one of my customers has a dog and as we all know with some dogs they have something wrong with their urine that causes issues...

Through the summer where ever the dog pee'd it would kill the grass out right... now where the dog pee's it is greener than most lawns are at their best... not much growth but a nice dark green... he has so many dog spots the whole area of the yard is almost green...

What I am wandering is what exactly is it that causes the effect, is it harmful in moderate amounts (it was obviously not good in the heat of summer but it looks good now), and if so, can we harness this product and use it ourselves? NO, I am not talking about collecting the dogs pee.... I am talking if it is protein, can we use a liquid protein to get the same effects?

I know there is blood meal and all... but I am not as well versed on all the meals and what they are good for...

DeepGreenLawn
11-14-2008, 09:04 AM
OK, so blood meal is soluble, and major N, which is good for bermuda... now... is N what is in the urine as well?

I was thinking blood was major protien as well?

DeepGreenLawn
11-14-2008, 09:08 AM
where can you get large amounts of bone and blood meal and does anyone have an idea of the app rates?

I know tree and Kiril are going to lean toward composting it... but until I have the capabilities for that...

Smallaxe
11-14-2008, 10:23 AM
Urine is urea, which is where the word came from.

I tried all season using molasses and sugar to prevent the kill zones, but noticed that the effects were sort of a dispersion. Rather than having brite green spots surrounding the killed zone and standing out from the rest of the yard, I noticed that the entire yard had a consistant brite green.

The strongest fertilizer I have put down since Miracle Gro in 2007 has been , Compost. I was concerned that if the spots did not stop soon I was going to be facing a green splotched lawn with light green background. It never happened!!!!

I am working on theories as to WHY...

Runner
11-14-2008, 05:48 PM
this is true. between the urea and ammonium nitrate (more toxic and hotter to the soil), this is what does the initial "burning" of the turf. Adding nitrogen to the rest of the lawn can help (only assist) to mask the problem but will NOT stop the burning of the spots. There ARE remedies to this in which we will get to in a moment. First however, I would like to explain (as has been explained on here before) that there used to be (and still is) a false belief that female dog's urine were more acidic than males, therefore female dogs cause more damage to grass areas than males. This is only half true. Yes, female dogs in general DO cause more damage to turf than males, BUT not because of the acidity levels in their urine. the reason is - that female dogs, when the urinate, squat. This puts the chemical down in a tighter more concentrated area. When a male urinates, he lifts his leg, and the urine is spread out over a wider area, especially depending on the amount of wobble the dog may have. Therefore, the chemical isn't as hard of a concentration...most of the time not causing any harm at all.
Now, some remedies for this contain the ideas of 1., having a designated area for the dog(s) and keeping it flushed with water. This works best when done right after the urinations, but even daily helps. Many dogs have certain areas inthe yards that they go, so this can be simple. The second, and most practical, is to use the products which are now sold over the counter (used to only be available through vets) that actually neutralize the acidity in the urine. These products are available in a liquid that goes in the dogs' water, and/or in cookies that they eat (they love them). These products are very effective, as I have recommended them to several customers, and they have had great success. I want to add that these products ARE completely safe for pets, and have no adverse effects on liver, kidneys, etc..

cudaclan
11-14-2008, 05:49 PM
You will have a difficult time "blending" the surrounding turf to color match. Spike/plug the affected areas to encourage leaching the urea. An application of iron may green-up the remaining turf. The N content in urine will require absurd amounts of high N to color match the remaining lawn. Not a good practice.

Blood meal is $1.00 a pound and it does carry an odor. Some may argue that it has been processed so that it does not. I make tea from BM or lawns in low dosages.

Smallaxe
11-15-2008, 09:10 AM
This place has invisisble fence and the entire yard gets dosed. I was over there yesterday and with the cold weather setting in the spot seem worse and the circles are more pronounced in that they are yellowing LESS quickly than the rest of the lawn.

I haven't applied sugar or molasses for the past couple months so perhaps that should be kept up regularily. Aeration for drainage I have also thought of and did once this summer. I am thinking aeration and compost at least twice before the annual garden party and another in the fall.

Has anyone had success defeating dog spots with compost tea?

dishboy
11-15-2008, 01:33 PM
You will have a difficult time "blending" the surrounding turf to color match. Spike/plug the affected areas to encourage leaching the urea. An application of iron may green-up the remaining turf. The N content in urine will require absurd amounts of high N to color match the remaining lawn. Not a good practice.

Blood meal is $1.00 a pound and it does carry an odor. Some may argue that it has been processed so that it does not. I make tea from BM or lawns in low dosages.

Where do you find blood meal?

Prolawnservice
11-15-2008, 02:52 PM
In a bag, lol, sorry I had to, I get it at Agway or any farm/garden center

NattyLawn
11-15-2008, 04:42 PM
I, like Runner have had pretty good success using GreenUms (made with yucca) sold over the counter.

The owner of OA and some of the rest of us with dogs have been putting humate in the dogs drinking water. This will sequester the nitrates in the animal, leading to less potential damage. I didn't have any issues, and my females like to pee on top of the other's spot.
We also use brewers yeast and EM on their food too to help with digestion. Better food helps as well. A lot of cheaper food has corn and rice as filler. Dogs can't digest it, and it comes out the other end. So, spending a few more bucks on your pooches food helps, but with the down economy this might not be feasible for everyone.

growingdeeprootsorganicly
11-15-2008, 05:00 PM
problem with dog spots is once there found it's to late? best defense would be to train the dog to go in a certain spot/area all the time if possible.

since it's about too much N/urea flushing with water would to me be the best fix,

could run irrigation more often but that will cause more problems likely for sure.

things like aerating the area with pitch fork, molasses,CT, would help stimulate microbes to consume/tie up the excess n in area but.....

i look at it like this... as long as dog can pee/sh@t where ever it wants in a yard the problem will always happen.

it's up to home owner to flush spots/ pick up cr@p right after the dog does it's biz

i don't think it's a ph issue? any body know what a dogs pee ph is?
and what other substances are in dog pee? i researched it for a min and couldn't find anything?

Kiril
11-16-2008, 01:37 PM
http://plantanswers.tamu.edu/turf/dog_lawn_problems.html

growingdeeprootsorganicly
11-16-2008, 02:09 PM
thanks kiril,


giving dogs pill's/ete. to reduce N in pee/cr@p seems not healthy for the dogs.

reducing excessive protein in dogs diet seems helpful?

anybody?

ICT Bill
11-16-2008, 10:18 PM
thanks kiril,


giving dogs pill's/ete. to reduce N in pee/cr@p seems not healthy for the dogs.

reducing excessive protein in dogs diet seems helpful?

anybody?

Why don't you personally test the theory first and then I will try it on my dog

:)

growingdeeprootsorganicly
11-16-2008, 10:48 PM
bill,
only if i can piss in your yard..:)

NattyLawn
11-16-2008, 11:47 PM
I smell a new product(literally): ICT 1-2-3 Dog Pee!
I know, bad joke!

The pills are actually made with yucca as a primary ingredient. Adding the humate to the water and giving the dogs EM and brewers yeast (with garlic) has sequestered the nitrates in their urine, kept fleas away, and helped in digestion and better breath. As should have been mentioned earlier, consult with your vet before adding any of this stuff to your dogs daily regimen.

ICT Bill
11-17-2008, 09:35 AM
bill,
only if i can piss in your yard..:)

LOL pretty funny, come on down your welcome anytime. I do it all the time to keep the deer away

Dchall_San_Antonio
11-20-2008, 01:54 PM
The link to the TAMU site posted above was what I was going to contribute. Otherwise while my dogs are trained to pee in someone else's yard (not really, but we have a green scape nearby), eventually the dogs get old and start to pee in my yard.

The problem has been described to me by some of my organic gurus as an overabundance of nitrogen in the form of urea in the urine. There are microbes in the soil that process that urea but usually not in such quantities all in one place. When they are busy decomposing the urea they are not reproducing, thus you end up with a "normal" population of decomposers trying to decompose a huge amount of material. The way to fix that is to apply sugar to stimulate them to reproduce. I have had excellent success with both molasses and table sugar. Table sugar is so much easier to apply that that's all I would use. Regular visits to the site are important for control. As soon as you suspect a spot is going to turn yellow, scatter a heaping handful of table sugar onto the spot and moisten it. Once the microbes have reproduced, the spot will green up very dark due to the concentrated fertilizer. I had 9-inch high, and very dark green, grass in January in each of my dog pee spots. How you would handle this would be something to think about. In any case a green spot is much preferred to a bare spot.

Smallaxe
11-21-2008, 09:36 AM
DC, I have been using your sugar and molasses advice over this past season. One of my clients has 2 large dogs that roam freely over the lawn, inside the invisible fence. I have been applying sugar/molasses only several times over the summer b4 or after mowing.

My next idea is to apply molasses/sugar - every week - topdress with compost/sand mixture - twice a month - to disperse the urine concentrations. The only other step is daily irrigation and I would like to avoid that for the sake of the turf.

How does this all sound to you? thanks,

JDUtah
11-21-2008, 03:15 PM
Solution: Get rid of the dog. ;)

Lol, on a more serious note... I hope you are making bank off this. That's a ton of work.

Have the homowner leach the stuff. Small trickle of water from teh end of the hose on the spot for 30 mins to an hour...

dishboy
11-21-2008, 04:26 PM
The link to the TAMU site posted above was what I was going to contribute. Otherwise while my dogs are trained to pee in someone else's yard (not really, but we have a green scape nearby), eventually the dogs get old and start to pee in my yard.

The problem has been described to me by some of my organic gurus as an overabundance of nitrogen in the form of urea in the urine. There are microbes in the soil that process that urea but usually not in such quantities all in one place. When they are busy decomposing the urea they are not reproducing, thus you end up with a "normal" population of decomposers trying to decompose a huge amount of material. The way to fix that is to apply sugar to stimulate them to reproduce. I have had excellent success with both molasses and table sugar. Table sugar is so much easier to apply that that's all I would use. Regular visits to the site are important for control. As soon as you suspect a spot is going to turn yellow, scatter a heaping handful of table sugar onto the spot and moisten it. Once the microbes have reproduced, the spot will green up very dark due to the concentrated fertilizer. I had 9-inch high, and very dark green, grass in January in each of my dog pee spots. How you would handle this would be something to think about. In any case a green spot is much preferred to a bare spot.

Nice to see you here David!. I do this also per your instructions and it works , thanks.