Lighting anyone?

[Rainman7]

Its a ghost town over there. Any irrigation people over here get into lighting?

[Rainman7]

By "over there" I mean the Lighting forum in case any one was wondering.

[Mike Leary]

Its a ghost town over there. Any irrigation people over here get into lighting? Nope..........

[hoskm01]

Its a ghost town over there. Any irrigation people over here get into lighting?
We put in some nice stuff on jobs, but its certainly not my passion.

[DanaMac]

We used to, until the irrigation took over 100%. I'd do it more if the jobs were easier to sell. And if more interest was there.

[Wet_Boots]

Lighting has certainly advanced since the old days. Hard to get someone who installed sprinkler heads that lasted decades to get into the lightbulb business.

[DanaMac]

Its a ghost town over there. Any irrigation people over here get into lighting?

Why is it a ghost town? Did they get tired of the color too?

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

I installed Brass cast at my house and took courses three time but could never turn it into a business. i'll try and talk to you if you are lonely.

[Wet_Boots]

I installed Brass cast at my house and took courses three time but could never turn it into a business. i'll try and talk to you if you are lonely.Cowboys game that bad already? :p

[BrandonV]

I do quite a bit in lighting, nothing compared to some of those gents but I do my fair share.

[DanaMac]

I went thru a few seminars, and even a two day trip to Unique in California. Got NILLA certified thru them which was a joke in my opinion. Bought two expensive demo kits. Sold a few jobs, and the kits are installed in my yard now. I think it's easier to sell for a new landscape installation, and much tougher after the fact. Oh well, lesson learned for me. Learned a lot. I did do a $1000 service, troubleshoot job last year on a system that was not installed very well.

[Wet_Boots]

I've patched a few lighting systems, but customers were never happy, because the systems were destined for complete failure.

[ARGOS]

I almost always forget to sell the lighting, but every time I remember to say "hey, we could easily run a strip of lights right here" they go for it. It is a cheap upsale, easy install. I must admit I find it tedious. I prefer running irrigation.

I'm with Fimco...if you are bored we could all talk lighting. Light shows, grease lightening, lightening bolts, light loads, coors light... You'll need to post on the irrigation forum unless there is a mass exodus to the Trade Show Forum due to color disputes.

[Wet_Boots]

These colors stink!!

[DanaMac]

These colors stink!!

hahahahahahaha :laugh: they'll never change em.

[Waterit]

there is a mass exodus to the Trade Show Forum

Pretty boring over there, too.

We need some dumb-a$$ HO's to post some dumb-a$$ questions so we can all tee off on 'em, and then do the standard wandering off-topic into things more interesting.

[5.0]

Lighting anyone?

Hell no! We install it if asked to, but I personally hate the crap.

[bicmudpuppy]

My experience with Landscape lighting correlates to irrigation in a couple of ways.................
1) Any hack thinks he can do it. More pikers than techs out there stringing wire.
2) Good installations are never cheap and are even harder to sell than irrigation.
3) Maybe because I'm more use to water flow, but current draw is work for me, you have to balance your flow, size your POC, and your transmission lines (we use pipe, lighting uses wire, but size IS everything)
4) The money is in the repair, for those that can afford it, because of the first three.

[DanaMac]

My experience with Landscape lighting correlates to irrigation in a couple of ways.................
1) Any hack thinks he can do it. More pikers than techs out there stringing wire.
2) Good installations are never cheap and are even harder to sell than irrigation.
3) Maybe because I'm more use to water flow, but current draw is work for me, you have to balance your flow, size your POC, and your transmission lines (we use pipe, lighting uses wire, but size IS everything)
4) The money is in the repair, for those that can afford it, because of the first three.


ditto
ditto
ditto
ditto


I actually liked doing it, but there are things I don't like about it too.
Likes

not getting wet when it's cold out
looks really cool if done right
can be a good money maker with the right home and client


Dislikes

Tougher sell
Have to work in the evening to see the product work and adjust positioning
My hands cramp up working with the wiring and connectors

[Mike Leary]

Up north, you've got to have a specialty electrical license. Why, since it's low voltage? I talked to the State and they explained so many dorks had used the wrong transformers and wire and they had so many fires that the license was instituted. I considered
doing it, but decided to concentrate on irrigation. We do work with the lighting guys,sharing trenches, etc.

[bicmudpuppy]

Up north, you've got to have a specialty electrical license. Why, since it's low voltage? I talked to the State and they explained so many dorks had used the wrong transformers and wire and they had so many fires that the license was instituted. I considered
doing it, but decided to concentrate on irrigation. We do work with the lighting guys,sharing trenches, etc.

I've seen my share of smoked transformers in KS. A good "almost a fire" transformer is a nice selling tool, if they really want the lights. The kits come with 12/2 wire and enough of it, but the average HO or piker decides he can get another roll of 12/2 and keep going, or run another leg. Counting fixtures and watts gets you a stupid look. Explaining that the 300watt transformer in the 8 light kit doesn't give you room to put on 6 more lights is not a good time. Explaining to them to add the lights they want, and make it all work means you need the 900 watt transformer with some 8 and 10 gauge wire, and it is going to cost three times what the kit with the 300 watt transformer costs makes it a hard sell. BUT, if the pay and let you do it right, I've done some really KEWL work.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

My problem with LS lighting is the type of conversations you have to get into with the women folks. It's like shopping with your wife/gf for a dress(for her). I can pull it off but I find it exhausting.

[bicmudpuppy]

My problem with LS lighting is the type of conversations you have to get into with the women folks. It's like shopping with your wife/gf for a dress(for her). I can pull it off but I find it exhausting.

Ditto, but more like shopping with your teenage daughter vs wife/SO. The sale rack isn't kewl and "DAD.........you just don't get it.........."

[AI Inc]

I have sold and installed about 10 systems. I like doing it. Even better if you can install at the same time as irrigation. Around here they are not that easy to sell. I have a program where I can take a photo of a house and install lights , then clik a mouse and make it dark. I have used this for existing customers who I know love to spend money. When bored in the winter I have designed a lighting system and mailed then to about 25 customers. No one interested at all.

I would sell more if I could.

[DanaMac]

I have sold and installed about 10 systems. I like doing it. Even better if you can install at the same time as irrigation. Around here they are not that easy to sell. I have a program where I can take a photo of a house and install lights , then clik a mouse and make it dark.

I have used one of those programs as well. Pretty neat.

[DanaMac]

I hate the long conversations of why these systems cost so much more than the lame lights from HD, and Lowes.

[AI Inc]

I hate the long conversations of why these systems cost so much more than the lame lights from HD, and Lowes.

Thats the big sales killer here. It can be a hard sell when even thou the HD ones look like junk they are 1/100 of the price.

[Wet_Boots]

Congratulations on 4000 posts!

[AI Inc]

Hey I didnt even notice that.Must have been the election.

[Mike Leary]

Thats the big sales killer here. It can be a hard sell when even thou the HD ones look like junk they are 1/100 of the price.

Tell 'em you've got 4K posts; that should sell the deal!

[AI Inc]

Tell 'em you've got 4K posts; that should sell the deal!

Actualy Ill be perfectly honest with ya Mike. I dont think I display the solid confidence that I do when trying to sell irrigation. Im not a true salesman , I can only sell what I beleive in. I was never good enough of a bullshatter to hide that either.

[Mike Leary]

If we were not true salesmen, we'd be working in a factory somewhere.

[BrandonV]

Speaking of lighting I just got one contracted today!
here's the fixture count:
Up Lights = 32
Down Lights = 28.
Path Lights = 31
Step Lights = 7
Decorative Lights = 3

[Mike Leary]

Speaking of lighting I just got one contracted today!
here's the fixture count:
Up Lights = 32
Down Lights = 28.
Path Lights = 31
Step Lights = 7
Decorative Lights = 3

What are you doing on the sprinkler forum? :hammerhead:

[BrandonV]

this is my favorite forum! at least people here respond and give you that welcome feeling.

[Mike Leary]

Get your Lear Jet fired up and come and see us out west.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

this is my favorite forum! at least people here respond and give you that welcome feeling.

GET LOST:waving:

[Waterit]

I hate the long conversations of why these systems cost so much more than the lame lights from HD, and Lowes.

It's the same conversation for irrigation parts vs. the big boxes.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

It's the same conversation for irrigation parts vs. the big boxes.

It only gets to that when you don't distract them with spittlebug talk. Get their brain working over some stupid trivia and then grab the check and haul azz. Works really well on seniors.

[Mike Leary]

It's the same conversation for irrigation parts vs. the big boxes.
I can't imagine how I did good without the personal attention from my reps. Screw the boxes & any on-line dealer..

[Who is John Malt]

As ML mentioned, LVL requires a specialty electrical license; I've considered getting it. We never run LVL wire in irrigation trenches :rolleyes:, that would be against code!

I'm sure there is money in it but we just don't have a lot of folks putting it in. There are also some very strict codes here regarding how bright, no up lighting, etc.

[irrig8r]

My problem with LS lighting is the type of conversations you have to get into with the women folks. It's like shopping with your wife/gf for a dress(for her). I can pull it off but I find it exhausting.

I used to be more put off by that too... and there are a lot more asthetic considerations where the wives want to have their say...

But that said, I sell a lot of lighting easily to existing and past irrigation customers.. usually starts with taking a look at a bad or outdated existing system.

And if it's referral work from another lighting customer then they already have some idea of what I can do...

Been doing lighting since 1989 BTW, and irrigation since before 1988.. and I'm learning something new all the time.

[DanaMac]

Gregg - from what I've found, is it's easier in climates like yours where people spend a lot more time outside in the evening. At 7000' elevation, it gets cold here at night even in the summer. Even the high end landscape companies I work with don't do too much of it. Not saying it's never done here, but more prevalent in warmer climates. when I went to Unique years ago, we did a demo at Nate Mullen's neighbor's home. EVERY home out there seems to have lights.

I absolutely hate seeing the runway lights along a driveway. I cringe every night I'm driving in my neighborhood. WAY too many like that. I'm surprised nobody in my neighborhood asks me about my lighting (granted I tend to be a hermit when home). Wooded neighborhood, up lights, down lights, only one path light, NO street lights in area at all.

[Rainman7]

Thanks for all the posts. I am very interested in those programs a couple of people were talking about for lighting.

I only installed 7 jobs this year and probably could have sold more if I had time. The only thing I did not like about it was going back at night in the summer time to adjust or check things out. I was having a hard time working from 6AM to 7PM then going back out at 9PM to look at lights.

Other than that I love the satisfaction of actually seeing something creative you did that the people get excited about. Getting tired of people getting
20K worth of landscaping modifications done then questioning a 1K bill for irrigation modifications. Why do they question it?they really dont see it. The only time it gets noticed is when things start to die.

I'm going to sell as much lighting as I can. To me, as long as its done right, its fun, easy to install, no special machinery or trucks and you get to use a different part of your brain:laugh:

[Stuttering Stan]

Dana, post some pics of your crib so we can see professional lighting at its finest.

[DanaMac]

Dana, post some pics of your crib so we can see professional lighting at its finest.

I've tried taking pics, and they never come out right. maybe with our newer camera I can do it. But it's not the BEST. Just better than anything in the neighborhood. I could do SO much more too. we have a ton of trees. But I don't want it looking like Hollywood either. There needs to be a happy medium. 8 well lights for some large tall pines, 4 wells in some of the scrub oak, 2 spots in the trees pointing down onto the driveway, one path light near front door.

[TXNSLighting]

Why is it a ghost town? Did they get tired of the color too?

yes.......

[TXNSLighting]

Speaking of lighting I just got one contracted today!
here's the fixture count:
Up Lights = 32
Down Lights = 28.
Path Lights = 31
Step Lights = 7
Decorative Lights = 3

Pretty good job! Should be a $25k+ job right?

[S&MLL]

I would say without looking in the ballpark of
22ishK for painted
26ishK for brass
32ishK for LED

[S&MLL]

I've tried taking pics, and they never come out right. maybe with our newer camera I can do it. But it's not the BEST. Just better than anything in the neighborhood. I could do SO much more too. we have a ton of trees. But I don't want it looking like Hollywood either. There needs to be a happy medium. 8 well lights for some large tall pines, 4 wells in some of the scrub oak, 2 spots in the trees pointing down onto the driveway, one path light near front door.




Leave your shutter open for the most time possible. Real easy way to get nice pictures.

[S&MLL]

Standard http://njlandscapelighting.com/gallery/13.jpg



Left shutter open for a couple extra seconds

http://njlandscapelighting.com/gallery/14.jpg



Not the best example.....But also not in my office

[DanaMac]

S&MLL - are you taking digital at all or regular film camera?

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Only a woman could have chosen a light fixture with a monkey. I'm sure she used the word "ornate" I will take a pic tonight of my light fixture. It's a MAN's light fixture. Heavy brass. Has one job and does it d@mn well.

[ARGOS]

I loved Planet of the Apes.

[Kiril]

I've tried taking pics, and they never come out right. maybe with our newer camera I can do it.

Get a tripod and shoot in manual mode.

[ARGOS]

I've seen my share of smoked transformers in KS.

but the average HO or piker decides he can get another roll of 12/2 and keep going, or run another leg.

Explaining that the 300watt transformer in the 8 light kit doesn't give you room to put on 6 more lights is not a good time.

I assumed the reason that code requires transformers to be mounted outside is for this exact reason. It is easy for the HO to start adding lamps.

[DanaMac]

Only a woman could have chosen a light fixture with a monkey. I'm sure she used the word "ornate" I will take a pic tonight of my light fixture. It's a MAN's light fixture. Heavy brass. Has one job and does it d@mn well.

I am one that doesn't want to see the fixture at all. I want to see the effect, not the fixture. So I don't like decorative path lights and such. Primarily well lights pointing up, and non intrusive spots in the trees pointing down or to light up certain things.

[Kiril]

Primarily well lights pointing up

That could present a problem in cities with no up-lighting ordnances

[DanaMac]

That could present a problem in cities with no up-lighting ordnances

Very true. None near me, but I believe Boulder does. So I'd go with more down lighting then.

[S&MLL]

Well it's a Hinkley so pretty much just a very expensive artsy type fixture. The glass is real Tiffany glass. I just shoot with an older digital SLR. For full fronts of house I set shutter to max. Takes about a minute to take but comes out very very nice.


And Dana Mac I hate path lights. Just what I had a picture of on the computer.

But btw well lights kind of suck. Very late 90s. Especially if it has a par36 in it.

[Kiril]

Has anyone used these, or something similar?

http://www.simbiousa.com/SolarPowered_led_brick_lighting.htm

[Who is John Malt]

Cool idea for those sun-enhanced regions.

[S&MLL]

Solar is garbage

[Kiril]

Solar is garbage

.....................

Has anyone used these, or something similar?

[Who is John Malt]

Solar is garbage

You've determined this through your vast depth of experience? Or do you mean that the plethora of solar-powered units you've been exposed are inferior. Please elucidate (or pontificate)...

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Has anyone used these, or something similar?

http://www.simbiousa.com/SolarPowered_led_brick_lighting.htm

I was thinking of ordering one to be the guinea pig but then I saw they were shipped out of Florida.

[TXNSLighting]

Well it's a Hinkley so pretty much just a very expensive artsy type fixture. The glass is real Tiffany glass. I just shoot with an older digital SLR. For full fronts of house I set shutter to max. Takes about a minute to take but comes out very very nice.


And Dana Mac I hate path lights. Just what I had a picture of on the computer.

But btw well lights kind of suck. Very late 90s. Especially if it has a par36 in it.

You need to turn the flash off...

[TXNSLighting]

Solar is junk. It doesnt give you the effect you need.

[Kiril]

It doesnt give you the effect you need.

What effect are you looking for in a paver light?

[Waterit]

I was thinking of ordering one to be the guinea pig but then I saw they were shipped out of Florida.

I was going to thank you for the nod to my advice on the 304, and here you go off on FL again.:cry:

No wonder the skeeters drove you off to Mississippi.:laugh:

[TXNSLighting]

What effect are you looking for in a paver light?

Im just talking in general. They also dont last long enough. Definately arent bright enough...

[Kiril]

Im just talking in general. They also dont last long enough. Definately arent bright enough...

Still not following you. It is a spot of light on the ground, doesn't need to be bright, just visible. The purpose is not to light up the path, but to show a path to take.

What do you mean by don't last long enough? The LED bulb, the solar cell & circuit, the fixture housing?

I happen to agree with you in general with regard to your "typical" solar light you see people put in their yards, but you are not convincing me of anything with regard to this particular paver light. I have never used them, but I have seen other manufactures with similar products. One I remember actually looked like a cobble stone, you couldn't tell it was a light unless you looked closely.

If you have used paver lights like these please tell, otherwise you are just bashing for the sake of bashing ..... which means you fit in well with the majority of this crowd.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Kiril

It is okay to cast aspersions on a whole category of products based on prevailing attitudes.

And why in the frick is this lighting thread doing over here anyway.

[ARGOS]

And why in the frick is this lighting thread doing over here anyway.

I guess the irrigation forum is slow.

[TXNSLighting]

Still not following you. It is a spot of light on the ground, doesn't need to be bright, just visible. The purpose is not to light up the path, but to show a path to take.

What do you mean by don't last long enough? The LED bulb, the solar cell & circuit, the fixture housing?

I happen to agree with you in general with regard to your "typical" solar light you see people put in their yards, but you are not convincing me of anything with regard to this particular paver light. I have never used them, but I have seen other manufactures with similar products. One I remember actually looked like a cobble stone, you couldn't tell it was a light unless you looked closely.

If you have used paver lights like these please tell, otherwise you are just bashing for the sake of bashing ..... which means you fit in well with the majority of this crowd.


i dont know why im over here...just bored i guess. No i havent used those. But with my experiences with anything solar, its all junk. Maybe they have made a break through...and im not like some of the yahoo's on here...

[Kiril]

It is okay to cast aspersions on a whole category of products based on prevailing attitudes.

Is this a question or a statement?

And why in the frick is this lighting thread doing over here anyway.

What else is there to talk about? Most of the people that post in this forum are on "vacation" for the next 5-6 months. There are only a few of us here that actually work year round. :dizzy:

[Kiril]

I think this is the "cobblestone" light I saw. The page isn't quite what I remember though.

http://www.kiss-textil.de/wisdomen.htm