What's with the BS?

[rodfather]

I have only been a member of LS for about 6 months or so. I have spent dozens of hours reading the replies from people who I recognize as being real authorities and professionals in the lawn care and landscaping busines. People like LawnGodFather, 65Hoss, JimLewis, 1GrnLwn, Matthew, Kirby, Papps, Paul, and a host of others.

Now, what troubles me is when these gentlemen offer their free expertise, business savvy, and knowledge with the rest of us newcomers, there is always someone out there who thinks they are smarter than them. And then (are you ready for this?), they want to argue with them over something they probably know nothing or very little about.

Well, Hellooooooooooooooo, these guys have forgotten more than most us know. At least for the present. When is the majority of us going to recognize these people are here to help, guide, and make us successful?

I'm sorry...I'm too tired of beginners and novices arguing wth the real pros. I read it daily in the threads and replies. I understand there are many different regions in this country and elsewhere. But come on, give EVERYONE a break.

You get a whole lot more out of listening, than you do out of talking. Listen to these pros, stop trying to be them until you're as good or better as one of them. I like their help in their responses...I'll be damned if only one of them gets mad enough to not respond anymore...because some beginner has ticked them off. Enuff already.

my 2 cents.

[MuskTurfKing]

Ha! I know more than you Rod! Your dumb! J/K

That's what their saying, it's true, they ask for help, and they get snippy, I'm probably one of the least knowledgable people here, but I try, and I'm learning, but I'm still just a kid. Us newbies need to take notes from the great ones.

Why didn't you mention Stone on your list? Hahaha.

Hank

[Administrator]

This is a community... a community makes up all kinds of.. well, everyone and everything.

I'm not arguing with your list of "pro's" but have you seen anyones tax statements or have you been given a tour of their company or background?

Again, this is a community of many, many different company types, sizes, locations, sales volume, etc., etc., etc.... That's what has made this site so great for so many years. Go with the flow... it works.

[stslawncare]

good post chuck, i totally agree.

[mowahman]

That's why we have 2 ears and one mouth...listening is the biggest part of this biz. If you listen to your clients, they will tell exactly what they want, then, you repeat it back to them with sincere interest and now they think you're the smartest, most personal operator out there. As for the smart #$s remarks, that made me stop posting too. Been at this too long to put up with someone that knows it all after 6 mos. . Been at it for over 20 yrs. and I hope I never know it all.

[rodfather]

Stone too...and a whole bunch of others as well. I think I made my point in that i don't want to p--s off and make stupid remarks to people who truly know what's going on out there. I like their help and advice

[MuskTurfKing]

That is the best post I've seen in a long time. We all know what were doing with our business, we all have our own ideas and goals and dreams, this place is just a place to get ideas that we like and find ways to become more efficient. The problem comes when someone tries to force their business views on someone else. It's our own thing, we put in our whole life to it, we know what were doing. Different strokes for different folks. Some like a big volume of accounts, some like a couple large accounts to make high profit, some like a mix, that's what makes us all unique.

Hank

[rodfather]

I apologize to those who misunderstood I have only been in business for 6 months (yes, 6 months as a member of LS, but 8 years as LCO).

[Randy Scott]

Originally posted by Administrator
This is a community... a community makes up all kinds of.. well, everyone and everything.

I'm not arguing with your list of "pro's" but have you seen anyones tax statements or have you been given a tour of their company or background?

Again, this is a community of many, many different company types, sizes, locations, sales volume, etc., etc., etc.... That's what has made this site so great for so many years. Go with the flow... it works.

Exactly! If you have enough intelligence, you will be able to weed out the ones that talk through their a$$! Besides, we all will have our opinion on who seems to know their stuff and who doesn't. I've gotten alot of good input here along with alot of dribble. I can decipher between the two.

[rodfather]

I think some of you don't understand what I'm trying to say...I have never looked at or read a Balance Sheet, Cash Flow, or P & L Statement of any of the "pros" i made mention. I merely used their names becuase they made many replies to many threads and their responses seemed to me to be the most accurate. how much money they make, how many employees they have, and how much equipment they have, I really don't care. I just like to pick their brains...they seem to know what's going on

[1MajorTom]

Quote: I merely used their names becuase they made many replies to many threads and their responses seemed to me to be the most accurate.

Never base your opinion on who has knowledge by number of posts someone has. I know we don't.

[lbmd1]

I agree with Chuck as well on the perception of whom you may think is an expert or not regarding members on the board. Opinions are like a*@holes, everybodys got one. Just because someone that you may regard to be an authority on the subject gives their advice, doesn't make it always right. Sometimes it can be wrong and be open for interpretation or debate. And just because their post count is high, doesn't make them an expert either. There are many members that I respect as well on this board (even the guys with the pretty boy trucks) LOL. Many of us have been here since the Hall of Forums. (I think that was the name many years ago) Some good people have left and others will arrive. Noone will really know how big or knowledgeable any of them really are by their posts, so if they get upset and leave, they'll always be a replacement to help you out at a later date. This site has helped both beginners and seasoned veterans alike. I'm sure that if you ask some of those guys you mentioned above if they've learned anything from this site, they would tell you yes. No one is too old to learn, maybe just stubborn to admit to it. Like Chuck said, different regions and their pricing will affect many of the posts that causes debates on pricing, productivity, overhead, labor and a slew of other topics. My company focuses on all high end seaside residential homes (140 weekly clients) and a few HOA's. So it's hard to impose my experience and imput to an LCO down in Florida that struggles to get $15-$25 for a lawn because thats all the location can afford or is the going rate Just because a disagreement happens, doesn't always mean the guy with the most posts knows more. . I saw someones tag line here that said something like the following: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt" I think that sums up alot.

Mike

[kutnkru]

Originally posted by 1MajorTom
Never base your opinion on who has knowledge by number of posts someone has. I know we don't. Thats true cause this is a great place to chat, and I like talkin out my ass -LOL!!!

[turfnerd]

I can not believe how whipped some of you are! You all think that just because these few people listed have read a turf book and post a bunch of replies that they know it all. Who cares if they have 10 Walkers and three crews, I would like if any of them have a bachlors in Turf Management.

Yes I know their here to help, but you can't take everything they say and think it is written in stone.

[plow kid]

When I was new here, about 2 years ago, someone told me and I quote " Nate, All you got to do is sift thru all the bullschitt that is posted and you will see who to listen to" I think Bill / FineLinesLawn told me that but not sure.



I myself am tired of the newbie reposts, for gods sake use the damn search button, it should be the size of a add banner on the post new thread form.

that says

<FONT SIZE="20">SEARCH BEFORE YOU POST A NEW THREAD!!</FONT>

I'm sorry...I'm too tired of beginners and novices arguing wth the real pros. I read it daily in the threads and replies. I understand there are many different regions in this country and elsewhere. But come on, give EVERYONE a break.

same here brother!!!

[jaggy]

As being a new member of this forum, i have to express that i have found that the information has been so overwelming. The info that i or any of us can view or recieve from here should be view as privilaged and apprectative. You can tell who the pro's are here. And as matter of fact,i have recieved emails from them. These are the ones you should listen too as they have been down this road(lco business) and they know what they are talking about. And i for one, am greatly thankful for them.
As for ther ones who like to argue and try to make them look as they are better than the one's giving the advise, so be it. But please do not contact me with bs and things you have no idea about. I'm here to learn all i can and to make a productive way of life and business out of suggestions and thoughts from this forum.
Too all the pro's and you know whom i'm talking too, I like to thank you for myself and others who valve your opion's and business sense. Thank you again

[1grnlwn]

rodfather,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. It will take me years to live up to your billing. I must admit we are all just voices in the dark. And everyone here should take what they read with a grain of salt. There is a lot of good info here, there is a lot of emotion here (sorry guys I will never use the work emotion again) there is a lot of pride. All of these things effect how we post and how we read posts. I think opinion has been covered. Well I thought someone from the list should respond. Oh my opinion on # of posts and the label under your user name, get rid of all of it, they are right, it means nothing. In fact I believe people post wasted space just to watch the tally rise.

Mark

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Originally posted by turfnerd
if any of them have a bachlors in Turf Management.

School of hard knock and trial and error doesn't count?

So I guess You shouldn't take anyones advice on here since there may be one if your lucky that has a bachlors degree in turf managment.

This day and age any friggin' moron can buy a mower and get accounts, keeping them and making money at it, is a whole different ball game.

Knowing how to diagnose, treat, proper maintenance turf grass and ladscapes etc., all takes practice. What you do with that practice and what gets stored in your brain become knowlage.

What you do with that knowlage is up to you.

Labels and tallies i don't give a rats azz about.

What knowlage you supply is what counts.

I see a lot of you missed the point.:rolleyes:

BTW there is a ratings thing for each thread that is posted, why doen't any one use it? Rate the threads you feel are good ones.

[turfnerd]

I know a hole lot of freaken morons that have bought mower and make a living at it, but that doesn't mean they know much. Any body can buy a mower and cut grass, thats just grunt work. Keep it alive and looking aesthetic takes some brain power.

[plow kid]

Originally posted by LAWNGODFATHER
BTW there is a ratings thing for each thread that is posted, why doen't any one use it? Rate the threads you feel are good ones.

I use it all the tme, maybe chuck can tell us why it isnt working, well Chuck?? :p ~NaTe

[Administrator]

I didnt even realize it was not working... this is the first time its even been mentioned. I will check it out and get it setup.

[Administrator]

Ok, it should be setup.... each thread needs atleast 5 votes before it shows up.

Chuck

[plow kid]

Thanks Mr Administrator sir:p. ~NaTe

It still wont let me rate the thread, it says I am not allowed.

[KirbysLawn]

Originally posted by turfnerd
You all think that just because these few people listed have read a turf book and post a bunch of replies that they know it all.

What's with you? He never said anyone knew it all, I know for a fact I don't. However I do try to help out and explain subjects that I do know. Hopefully the things I share will help other develope their business and lawns better, this combined with the others that are willing to share will help allow more success.

However, just as this thread has pointed out, lately there have questions asked, answers given, then the answeres debated with the very people that asked the question in the first place. If you knew the answer anyway why ask it?

I have tried to just step back a while and let some of the newer folks answer the questions. If I see something I don't know or disagree with I will add my .02 cents worth.

I would like if any of them have a bachlors in Turf Management.

Do you? If so we look forward to you sharing soon. If not maybe Chuck can hire a staff of bachlors for the site to fill your request......:rolleyes:

[KirbysLawn]

Chuck, it still appreas to not work, when I hit the rate thread button I get this:

[plow kid]

my computer does that too, at first I thought I was banned ;) but Chuck wouldnt ever do that;) ~NaTe

[1MajorTom]

It let me rate the thread. I rated it average.
When I went back to test it again, it would not me. It said I was not allowed to change my rating.
I guess to see if it works, we need 5 people to rate this thread.

Don't know why it won't let some not rate it.:confused:
Can only moderators rate threads???

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Bravo Ray

Some one read it correctly, may have been others, but he plain out said it.

BTW ratings does not work for me either

[65hoss]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Yes, everyone has opinions. If you've been around long enough you've gained much experience from hard knocks. There is definately more to business than cutting grass.

I have definately learned TONS from lawnsite. I learn something everyday. Life is a learning process. I get ideas and help from many people on this forum. But I also give freely many many hours to helping others. I recieve lots of emails and PM's from people daily asking for help. I have yet to turn anyone down. Not to mention the people in my area that have my phone # and call. They can take what I say or not. Its up to them.

I don't have a "degree" in turf management. I've learned it all from trial and error and hours of research. Knowledge is power and if your going to do something you should know as much as possible about it. When you go to talk with a potiential customer and you can explain exactly what is going on they know you have the knowledge to help them. They have confidence in you to let you do the work and pay you for it. The main reason to have knowledge is not to give advice but to use it to make money and grow your business.

I do have a degree in Accounting. Several years experience in finance, cost accounting and business mgmt. I do most of this type of help off forum. There are many here on lawnsite with years of experience, that is the spice of life. Sometimes tempers fly, but when its over we all learn something. Example of this is with Gunner_8. Many people kept up with the thread recently. When it was over, we all learned something. At least those of us involved did. And our professionalism came thru in the end. We got past the argueing and found out that we could learn many things from each other. A good debate allows everyone involved to end up better for it.

I can remember when we were wondering if we would get 2000 members before y2k. My pet peeve is that now we have over 6000, but how many actually post anything. They just take free info and run with it. But never give anything back to lawnsite. Its real easy to get info, but when you give back you open yourself up to the inspection of others. You open yourself up personnaly in someway. Its real easy for some to criticize those who open themselves up.

[Administrator]

Ok, its fixed... you guys should be able to rate theads.

Also, if a thread is started, and the majority feel it has been answered completely I can close the thread. No further discussion needed. ??

Thanks

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Like always, another good post from Hoss.

[kutnkru]

Originally posted by lbmd1
... Just because someone that you may regard to be an authority on the subject gives their advice, doesn't make it always right. Sometimes it can be wrong and be open for interpretation or debate. ... No one is too old to learn, maybe just stubborn to admit to it. ...The most important aspect of this site IMHO is the opportunity to expand by trial and error.

Pricing seems to vary widely for some services and not too much for others. But without a "source" to hopefully get an insight on many ideas and topics its hard at times to figure out why the averages are what they are in the trade publications. Well here, you get to discuss and learn "how" to determine your own prices, something that many LCOs/LMOs cannot do in their own areas.

Talk it for what its worth, read with a an open mind, then apply what you can to your own situations. If you cant figure out how to make something work then just ASK. Someone WILL help you work thru your dilemmas and quandries as long as your not insulting them to begin with.

[thelawnguy]

You can be whomever and whatever you want to be on the Internet. Rocket scientist, scrub, superstud-take your pick.

I have firsthand met people from this board who have been heads and shoulders above what their on-screen persona would have you believe. Conversely I have also met Mr Knowitalls who, after meeting them in person, make you realize that they are all smoke and mirrors a la the wizard of Oz.

[HOMER]

I'm sorry.:cry:

A "PRO" in my opinion is anyone that can do this type of work year after year, support his or her family off of the income it produces, maintain their credit (somehow) and offerFREE advice to someone just getting started. When I started back in 96 there wasn't anyone to ask much less reveal their secrets to 5-6000 people! Not everyone goes to college first........they go to work.........learn all they can..........build a business, yes........a business. If your doing this to support your family......it's a real business. If along the way they learn how to make something look aesthetic then good for them. Not every area of the country really cares about that, they want their dang grass cut and that's about it.

If you like it read it...........if not hit the back button and go on.

If you have the intelligence to contribute then by all means contribute.

[awm]

i have to agree that those willing to share their expertise
on various sujects deserve our respect and have mine.
however ill refer to the old saying theres a thousand ways to skin a cat.just so, theres many ways to do a job, not all the same but not all the wrong way ,except one. also if there is anything i know for sure it is that the fella who is so much of an expert that he cant learn from others.he demonstrates by being that way that hes still got at least one thing to learn.just mine.
i might add that i agree w the administrator. these forums dont just automatically prosper like this one ,with out smart management. later now

[kerr lawn]

i thank everyone for their help and ideas.
I'm getting ready for this season and really excited, and with the help of lawnsite this will be my best year every.
I hate to see anyone's work ethic or opinion shot down, because you have no idea where he/she is coming from. Even if you think it is wrong, it is not cool to rip somebody to shreds when all there trying to do is put food on the table, clothes on their back, and have a roof. We are all in this together, just coming from many walks of life.

HEY Homer i got a question,
just because i don't have a family to support, but want to someday does that not make me a pro? Even though this is my 10th season of cutting grass, i have awesome credit (all bills are current), and i offer free advice here and to my friends that are starting LCO's.

[65hoss]

I don't think Homer means you must have a family to be a pro, he is using as an example. Basically if your fulltime and do quality work and support yourself or family off it, you would be a pro. If your parttime and do quality work, your a pro. It comes down to this, if you run it as a business your a pro in my book. Regardless of parttime or fulltime. If you run it only for beer money and lowballing your not. That is my opinion. Professional means more than cutting grass. Its running a productive business. Everyone has a different opinion on productive business. Some like large, some like small. That doesn't matter.

[turfnerd]

Originally posted by KirbysLawn


Do you? If so we look forward to you sharing soon. If not maybe Chuck can hire a staff of bachlors for the site to fill your request......:rolleyes:

Not yet, but I'm working on it! What pizzes me off is when I ask a simple question on how low everybody cuts their dormant grass at the beginning of the season and how much they charge. And I get somebody telling me, in this cocky tone, that what im doing is wrong and also telling me that i need to read a book. I know turf

[Scraper]

And this post even deserves a star let alone a 3 star rating???

It never really deserved a response in the first place.

[1grnlwn]

Lawnsite North / Lawnsite South Kind of has a ring to it.

Turfnerd I see your point, I don't know squat about southern grasses and don't want to . Too brown in spring and fall.

Just saying northern grasses thrive at tall heights. No offense!Mark

[rodfather]

Sorry you feel that way, Scraper. Are you mad that I left out your name of the list of "pros"?

If not, what was it then?

[Eric ELM]

Originally posted by 1MajorTom
Quote: Never base your opinion on who has knowledge by number of posts someone has. I know we don't.

I totally agree with you Jodi. ;)

BTW thanks for the cute card you sent.

[Scraper]

No not mad at all. Thanks for asking though. The way I see it is everyone has their own opinion and like Bill said anyone can pose as whatever they want to be on the internet. Actually I am just getting tired of all the bickering egos, but I guess that's what keeps drawing me back to this site day after day, hour after hour.

;)

If we were to go by posts...Eric...you'd be God! :p

[rodfather]

Scraper

I agree with you 100%. The "bickering egos" is exactly what this thread is all about! Who said you werent' the brightest crayon in the box? Just kiddin".

Thanks for seeing what I was trying to say.

[cos]

I don't think a classroom answers all questions. The "what ifs"! I took a couple of course at an extension agent and they were worthless and didn't tell me a whole lot about scenerios.

[MuskTurfKing]

I feel education can and will help you out no matter what, you think, you learn how to think, you learn to think better, it doesn't matter what your thinking about, just as long as your thinking. High school is the biggest joke our country has, it's truly pathetic. I've missed around 15-20 days this 9 weeks and I STILL have all A's in my classes which are Trig Honors, Geography, Latin 2, and Wrestling. But the fact that I still think somewhat is what's important about learning. You then take that thinking to your business and become better and more efficient. I plan on going to college and getting an arb degree, I don't think mowings going to be my main target, but it will always be a part of my business.

Turfnerd, take it easy, it's hard to tell what's "sarcastic" on the forum, you don't know if they author meant it in that way, just take everything on here with a grain of salt, I do.

Hank

[Pauls Mowing]

I guess that's the main reason several people from here, including myself don't visit this site too often anymore. It has taken a 1st grade attitude, and time spent trying to help someone can be better used on something else. I used to come here several times a day, now I'm down to about once a week.

Good Luck....

Paul

[LAWNS AND MOWER]

Getting back to what classifies a pro. How about this. Customer retention. I feel that anyone who can consistently retain 95% or more of their client base year after year is a "PRO" in my book.

LAWNS AND MOWER

[jeffyr]

Originally posted by Pauls Mowing
I guess that's the main reason several people from here, including myself don't visit this site too often anymore. It has taken a 1st grade attitude, and time spent trying to help someone can be better used on something else. I used to come here several times a day, now I'm down to about once a week.
Paul

I took a hiatus myself. Too much bickering over the summer sometimes.....but I am enjoying looking around and learning from everyone elses experiences again.....even Stone with his new found love for Bob Walker !

and

LAWNS AND MOWER,

Hypothetical :
I have 100 customers that all come back season to seaon with no complaints.

Question:
Am I a pro or am I charging them $10 per cut ?

jeffyr

[2 man crew]

Hypothetical :
I have 100 customers that all come back season to seaon with no complaints.

Question:
Am I a pro or am I charging them $10 per cut ?

That would make you a Pro-scrub. (sounds like some kind of a cleaning device):confused:

Sorry I forgot the quote key Jeffyr.:rolleyes:

[jeffyr]

Originally posted by 2 man crew
Hypothetical :
That would make you a Pro-scrub. (sounds like some kind of a cleaning device):confused:

Pro-Scrub....for all you landscape needs. "As Seen on TV":D

LOL



jeffyr

[PAPS]

Good post Rod...i appreciate the gesture.

[stslawncare]

jeffyr sounds like a great product lol

[kutnkru]

...

[MATTHEW]

Does anyone ever wonder WHY this site works? Why do we give away free advice that we learned the hard way? Some do it to merely feed their own ego's. Some do it to help the industry maintain high standards (and rates). And I guess some do it just to be nice.
The only thing that bugs me about a lot of the bickering is that much of it comes from these "split personalities" which can often be identified by reading tons of posts. One name to a customer-PLEASE!!!

[fshrdan]

Good post 65hoss.

I wish I had that accounting degree instead of my turfgrass degree. In the 2 yrs I've been doing this on my own, I've learned so much more than 4 yrs in college... and I'm making money instead of spending it!

Hands on experience definitely weighs in more than a $30,000 piece of paper hanging on the wall.

[GroundKprs]

What you read or hear on this forum, on television, in the newspaper or magazine, or anywhere, is simply information. You can get information from a college professor with a doctorate, or from a wino in the street.

What you do with any information is up to you. The wise man distills all information he receives, and determines from his own resources what is truth to him. The really wise man keeps all information he receives, even if it is of no value to him today. Someday one scrap of past information may help to prove a fabulous new concept, or even to disprove it.

And if you really like to argue your side of the fence, this is a great place to test your knowledge. Except you don't try to argue your side, but the other side. That's the best way to test your own beliefs. And a good way to baffle kutnkru into silence for a few days. :D

[We kick grass]

O.K. everyone shake hands and go your seperate ways:) hey chuck maybe you could set up a complaint section. Hey anybody wants to debate me go ahead maybe I will learn something from you. Lets all put away are egos experienced and unexperienced and lets get back to business. I thought this was a open form anyway. Chuck is absolutely right who cares how long you have been doing the work lets see your bottom line then will see how much you have learned or thought you have learned over the years. Give the new guys some space and a little patience. We were all there at one time. :D everyone appreciates everybodys input.

[deason]

And this post even deserves a star let alone a 3 star rating???
It never really deserved a response in the first place.

Thats funny...... Why did you respond then?

It seems that we often are plagued with what we percieve to be "negative" or "smart a$$" responses to questions that are simple. Simply put, do you think that person had anything better or smarter to post? If they did, they would have said something other than "do a search".

When I first found this site, I was intimidated by the expertise and the knowledge that I read and was hesitant on posting. The day I did, it happened. The first response I got was basically "If you dont know what you are doing, why are you doing it in the first place"?

My point is that we all have to start somewhere and the only stupid question was the one that was never asked. If people like 65Hoss, LGF, Eric ELM and others would not respond in such a positive and helpfull way, this site would be an uninformative place to go to everyday and see who got the best of who and how stupid they made them look.

My business is stronger, my decisions are better, and my bottom line is larger because of these people and this site. But my knowledge of what not to listen to has grown the most. Seperate the positives from the negatives and use each as a tool for future referance of what to and what not to do.

[kutnkru]

Originally posted by GroundKprs
... And a good way to baffle kutnkru into silence for a few days. :D I never said that I dont talk out my ass -LOL!!! As a matter of fact I made it perfectly clear early on that I will usually post from 3 different pricing schedules that "I" use. I am here merely for the purpose of chatting and to see what life is like on the other side of the fence. I never meant to mislead or misguide anyone, only to open their eyes yto the fact that there are many ways to do business -LOL!!!

My pricing doesnt work for everyone, nor should it. Although I am glad to see many using the mesurement system for their lawns finally(-LOL!!!) to test their own pricing startegies and there are many who dont too and this is also okay.

Besides Im seriously contemplating mowing my operation westward and I have been seriously researching the South Bend areas -LMAO!!! :D

Hopefully the bridges arent burnt ;)

[paul]

Since my name was metioned here I'll add my $0.02, When I went to school they didn't have modular walls and brick pavers where installed using mortar, skid steers where around but landscapers didn't use them, We all thought a tractor loader was the ultmate machine.
I will not give anyone business advice anymore, their operation is so much different than mine.

As far as installation of landscaping, I give my hints and tips that "I" have found that work, and what I teach when manufactors call me to hold a class, thats not to say that I'm right for every install, rarely do I see a plan here, or am able to walk the site.

So much is given here with out first hand knowledge of what "YOU" have or "YOUR" ability to do the work! I post here because I hope that some of my answers will help others. Have I learned any thing here? Yes, people have posted hints that have help in doing the work and given me help in bidding work, I also learned that I still don't want to mow grass :)

[plow kid]

Originally posted by kutnkru
I never said that I dont talk out my ass -LOL!!!

Search Yahoo for Fetish Toys and click on a site , they can help you out with your problem;) ;) :p :p ;) ;)