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CarterKraft
11-26-2008, 08:41 PM
Holt CAT has announced that they have added Supertrak to there line.

I have tried in the past to build a Holt Custom Product for this but didn't get allot of interest. I hope this venture will lend some credance to that argument.

http://www.holtcat.com/news_detail.asp?newsID=76

bobcat_ron
11-26-2008, 09:40 PM
I'll bet YellowDog will be banging his head when he hears about this!

Digdeep
11-26-2008, 09:50 PM
Will they sell the Takeuchi version if a customer does not want the CAT version?

YellowDogSVC
11-26-2008, 10:02 PM
My CAT sales guy just called me today to tell me. Supertrak, while powerful, is outside of what I do most of the time. I don't clear large tracts. I clean up nasty brush piles in hard to reach locations and do a lot of cleanup for tree companies and set up for my big chipper. I was just telling my wife today that if I get my CDL and go to doing nothing but brush mowing, a supertrak might make the most sense.

Before I do that, though, I think I am going to go the route of a small horizontal grinder. I found this niche that's in between the guys who haul all their limbs off and the big companies that grind 500 AC or bring in a tub grinder. It keeps me fairly busy making these ranches "purdy" and that's what I like about using a skid steer. I have an arsenal of attachments and it is cost effective to run a skid and grapple, shear, bucket, mower, mulcher, grader, roller, etc. I don't think it would be as cost effective to switch attachments on a 150k to 200k machine.
I hope the local Holt dealer does a good job of support on these machines because I have always liked the concept of super trak. I may be interested in one in a few years or if I ever find a good operator for one..I might be able to swing it. They say if you are always working IN your business you can't work ON your business.

bobcat_ron
11-27-2008, 12:01 AM
I'll bet Holt will get alot of requests for the CTL with out the mulcher, just give them the extra HP and steel tracks.

CarterKraft
11-27-2008, 12:14 PM
I proposed building this machine several years back, of course I want to use a differant CAT engine than the C4.4 but that's just me.

I guarantee I can build a machine to rival the supertrak at far less cost and equal if not better features. Just have to convince the people that matter.

If you look back at what Holt has done to develop land like the King Ranch, the root plow, funnel dozer, twin D8 etc. I think a 150 hp CTL fits don't you.

YellowDogSVC
11-28-2008, 10:56 AM
Carter, I think you are onto something but do you think that components designed for a 90 HP machine would hold up if the CTL was used as a small dozer with that much HP and weight? I have my doubts about that but, a CTL that weighs about 15k with a bucket or 6 way and with heavier components would rival the D3 market wouldn't you think?
The way things are going is very interesting. Personally, I am more interested in the smaller niche.
I've found that just having a skid and a grapple to collect dead wood on ranches can be profitable. Less weight, less ground disturbance.
A big issue in Texas is live oak root disturbance and the spread of oak wilt. Mulchers like the supertrak with steel tracks can damage and compact root systems even though they boast lower PSI. I stopped running aggressive tracks a few years back.
I think a really heavy duty rubber track version would be a positive in the design of a future machine. One of the issues is the oak wilt problems occur in the hill country which is rocky..how to overcome that with rubber tracks is something I think about often.

There is a lot of money in the middle of the state of Texas. Confronting oak wilt issues and removing cedar in areas where there is oak wilt is a growing business and the more hp you have on a compact frame is certainly a good thing.

CarterKraft
11-28-2008, 01:33 PM
I see what you are saying but I was really more intersted in improving a product rather than redesigning one.
items on my list would be:

Closed loop high pressure mulcher circuit, very similar to Supertrak.
Change engine to higher hp&displacement.
Full cab pressurization with structural steel front door, ballistic glass, and external high capacity filtration.
Full automatic fire suppression system.

I would put all this stuff on a CTL, not a MTL but customer input would effect that decision.

stuvecorp
11-28-2008, 02:01 PM
Carter, I think you are onto something but do you think that components designed for a 90 HP machine would hold up if the CTL was used as a small dozer with that much HP and weight? I have my doubts about that but, a CTL that weighs about 15k with a bucket or 6 way and with heavier components would rival the D3 market wouldn't you think?
The way things are going is very interesting. Personally, I am more interested in the smaller niche.
I've found that just having a skid and a grapple to collect dead wood on ranches can be profitable. Less weight, less ground disturbance.
A big issue in Texas is live oak root disturbance and the spread of oak wilt. Mulchers like the supertrak with steel tracks can damage and compact root systems even though they boast lower PSI. I stopped running aggressive tracks a few years back.
I think a really heavy duty rubber track version would be a positive in the design of a future machine. One of the issues is the oak wilt problems occur in the hill country which is rocky..how to overcome that with rubber tracks is something I think about often.

There is a lot of money in the middle of the state of Texas. Confronting oak wilt issues and removing cedar in areas where there is oak wilt is a growing business and the more hp you have on a compact frame is certainly a good thing.

We have oak wilt up here too and it is not a good thing, really sad to see trees like that go.

stuvecorp
11-28-2008, 02:05 PM
I see what you are saying but I was really more intersted in improving a product rather than redesigning one.
items on my list would be:

Closed loop high pressure mulcher circuit, very similar to Supertrak.
Change engine to higher hp&displacement.
Full cab pressurization with structural steel front door, ballistic glass, and external high capacity filtration.
Full automatic fire suppression system.

I would put all this stuff on a CTL, not a MTL but customer input would effect that decision.

There is a guy that super-tunes the Blizzard plows and makes them much better, you may be the guy that unlocks the potential of a CTL in the grinding market.

YellowDogSVC
11-28-2008, 02:59 PM
Carter, i hope they give you the credit...
I can help with the dust issues and testing! Everyone agreed that my conditions were the worst they had seen.
They could have a CTL and a forestry CTL. 25k difference in price to keep it competitive. 100 hp, 4' mulching head (more power to less # of teeth) and you can be productive. You still need a giant machine for big trees in my opinion but there is a market in medium sized trees and brush piles that out of the box machines work in right now.
Believe it or not, I am not getting much dust in my Bobcat or it's A/C system. Most of the dust that does get in is from opening and closing the door. I've managed to seal up the cab pretty good. CAT should be able, with it's cab design, to have a virtually dust free cab. If I can add my suggestion, take some air off the suspension seat and set up a blow off nozzle over door. When you hit the button, a puff of air blows some of the crap away from the door seals so you can open your cab. Another thing to tell folks that are doing this right now, turn off your AC system before opening the door and let pressure equalize or you can suck dust right back in.

Mowingman
11-28-2008, 03:19 PM
I heard from on of the Cat mechanics that the prices for those Cat-based mulchers was really high. He said one of these machines would cost nearly twice what a similar size,(HP), Fecon machine would cost.
That Cat Yellow paint, makes them a lot better I guess.:laugh:

CarterKraft
11-28-2008, 10:15 PM
Carter, i hope they give you the credit...
I can help with the dust issues and testing! Everyone agreed that my conditions were the worst they had seen.
They could have a CTL and a forestry CTL. 25k difference in price to keep it competitive. 100 hp, 4' mulching head (more power to less # of teeth) and you can be productive. You still need a giant machine for big trees in my opinion but there is a market in medium sized trees and brush piles that out of the box machines work in right now.
Believe it or not, I am not getting much dust in my Bobcat or it's A/C system. Most of the dust that does get in is from opening and closing the door. I've managed to seal up the cab pretty good. CAT should be able, with it's cab design, to have a virtually dust free cab. If I can add my suggestion, take some air off the suspension seat and set up a blow off nozzle over door. When you hit the button, a puff of air blows some of the crap away from the door seals so you can open your cab. Another thing to tell folks that are doing this right now, turn off your AC system before opening the door and let pressure equalize or you can suck dust right back in.


I have everything for a yellowdog special in a word doc on my laptop as we speak...

The problem is I have put myself in position that doesn't allow for this type of work anymore. I would love for them to let me work in my shop, but there comes a conflict of interest if Carter Kraft Customs does it.

In my revision the volume of air that would be forced into the cab would clean the door seals off for you.

CarterKraft
11-28-2008, 10:17 PM
I heard from on of the Cat mechanics that the prices for those Cat-based mulchers was really high. He said one of these machines would cost nearly twice what a similar size,(HP), Fecon machine would cost.
That Cat Yellow paint, makes them a lot better I guess.:laugh:

The numbers I heard were crazy, no joking, crazy.

I could make your head spin for that kind of money, maybe I am telling my self something.

Is there a market for a $150K skid of any size?

stuvecorp
11-29-2008, 02:49 AM
The numbers I heard were crazy, no joking, crazy.

I could make your head spin for that kind of money, maybe I am telling my self something.

Is there a market for a $150K skid of any size?

It would have to be either super productive at a level we haven't thought of or last for twenty years with no maintenance.

I like skids but I think my price ceiling would be around 40 large.

CarterKraft
11-30-2008, 09:24 PM
40k for the conversion or for the whole machine.

It's understandable that there is a big price increase due to the extras involved not to mention the cutter head itself, but I couldn't see anyone paying the numbers I heard.

YellowDogSVC
11-30-2008, 09:30 PM
The numbers I heard were crazy, no joking, crazy.

I could make your head spin for that kind of money, maybe I am telling my self something.

Is there a market for a $150K skid of any size?

If it was very productive at mulching, ie, it could keep up with a 200 hp franklin and not do as much damage to oak trees and other desirables as the 8' wide cutters. I don't see a 150k CTL being used for grapple work or tree shearing.
For the mulching, it would have to be efficient and productive in my humble opinion.
I talked to a sales guy that said the ceiling can go as high as $200k for one with all the options. I don't know for sure if it was the CTL version or the D5 version. I'm guessing it is the CTL??

CarterKraft
12-01-2008, 10:17 AM
yeh that's what I heard, the D5 will really knock your socks off.

Is there any other outfits that do this kind of modification?

YellowDogSVC
12-01-2008, 09:22 PM
yeh that's what I heard, the D5 will really knock your socks off.

Is there any other outfits that do this kind of modification?

IronWolf has something similar. Probably too aggressive for the hill country of texas but would be good for the sandy soils and dirt parts of the state.

That's a lot of weight and a lot of machine either with the supertrak on D5 or the IronWolf crawler.

Personally, if the supertrak on a skid chassis can handle large trees in a compact size, it will be the way to go.