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ccstrebe
11-27-2008, 07:35 PM
I was going to post this in the "Access Problem" thread but since it got hijacked I'll start a new thread.

Sorry for the long read, I'll try to keep it interesting.

I'll start with a little background. Out at the track, when the face of a jump gets too rutted or worn down, I will lightly dig out the face of the jump with the bucket to loosen the dirt in order to fill the ruts and holes and then back drag any excess dirt. Next, I will pack the loosened dirt by going forward/backward with the CTL tracks on the face of the jump. As you can see in the track pictures, the jump faces are fairly steep. I need to raise the bucket so as to not run the bucket into the face of the jump while I am going back and forth, but when I do that, the bucket is in the way and I can't see what has been packed down and not packed down, so I have to raise the bucket above the cab so that I can see where I am going and where I have been.

When I flipped/rolled the Case 450CT last year that is what I was doing. By having the bucket above the cab and going downhill backwards too fast, the physics were such that the 450CT started to flipped over backwards. It came to rest on it's backside with the front of the machine facing skyward. The scariest part was that even after turning off the key, the engine wouldn't shut down, it was sucking oil through the air filter breather hose as it drained from the engine being at that angle. It kept running and the cab was filling with oily exhaust smoke.

Here I was, gravity pinning me into the seat like an astronaut getting ready for takeoff, trying to hold the door open with my foot so that I wouldn't choke to death on the smoke. I was able to climb out and jump to the ground without the machine falling over on its side.

Now I'm running as fast as I can to get some chains to upright the machine, while it is still belching out thick black smoke and sounding like the engine is going to blow. Also, it is getting dark. After what seems like forever, but was only two or three minutes the engine finally dies, I'm hoping it is ok.

At the time I had a Cat 930G out there, so I hook up a couple of chains to it and the skid and start to pull it forward. I am not able to center up like I wanted and the dang skid rolls over on its side as I try to pull it forward. I finally get it upright and try to start the engine but it wont turn over. It is too dark to do anything else so I go home and have a hard time sleeping, wondering if the engine is ok.

The next day I go out there with a mechanic friend of mine and he thinks the engine is hydro locked from the oil draining into it. He knew a couple of tricks on how to un-hydro lock it with out breaking out any tools and it worked, it started right up.

This little story leads up to what happened last week. I'm doing the back and forth thing with the Cat to pack down the dirt, but I'm not doing it on the steep takeoff of a jump, I'm doing it on the shallow angle of the landing of a jump. But those dang torsion bars on the suspended cab act like rubber bands and the Cat starts flipping over backward. The first thought that goes through my mind is "not again" and the second thought that goes through my mind is "I wonder how much damage there is going to be to my brand new kitty Cat". Learning from previous experience, I slam the bucket down hoping that it will stop flipping backward momentum, no such luck. The next thing I do as it continues flipping backward is to turn off the key, to my amazement the engine stops. Now I'm hunkering down and tightening up to getting ready for the wild ride. To my astonishment it stops, it doesn't flip upside down but I am now in a familiar position, I am once again getting ready for a moon launch and wondering what kept the machine from going all the way over.

I am thankful that the engine shut down and that there is no smoke in the cab because I can't get the door to open, it is too heavy and too far away from me to get it open enough to stay open. I don't even know if it would stay open even if I got it opened. Next I pull the rip cord on the back window but the glass wont punch out. I'm not sure why it wont come out but I am not in a position to put a lot of effort into it either as I have to hold myself up with one of my hands using the grab bar on the door.

The next paragraph is the reason for this post.

Here I am, stuck in a moon shot position, having to use one hand to hold myself up while using the other hand to try to open the door or the back window. It is almost dark and there is no one around to help me and I keep having to shift arms to hold my self up and I am wondering how I am going to get out of this mess. Then it hit me. How do you think I got out?

Thanks to Cats awesome window design and my awesome infamous ROPS modification, I effortlessly pulled out the front and back sliding windows and gently lowered myself to the ground hoping that the Cat didn't roll over on me, even though it seemed very stable. When I get out, the first thing I do is look to see why it stopped from going upside down. What I once thought was an ugly aspect of the machine is now what saved my machine. The Cat was in a perfect 3 point stand using the boom towers and the rear bumper. I quickly ran and got my F150 and a chain and hook them up hoping that this time it would not roll over on its side. A perfect touch down and not a scratch on the machine. I wanted to see if the engine would start but I figured I would wait until the next day just in case it got hydro locked like the 450CT did. I had a hard time sleeping that night wondering if the engine was ok. Went out the next afternoon and it started right up. I feel very fortunate to have dodged a major bullet and now know what the limits are on a suspended chassis when the bucket is halfway up going backward on what I considered a small incline.

I'm not excusing my error and I didn't really want to post this but I figured you guys might enjoy it and I'm trying to keep it real.

stuvecorp
11-27-2008, 07:44 PM
Glad it turned out okay.

all ferris
11-27-2008, 07:49 PM
Houston, we have a problem.:hammerhead:

KTM
11-27-2008, 07:58 PM
Glad it turned out o.k. if your tipping your loader that much I think I would want all the ROPS protection that I could get, including the side screens. Try backing up the jumps to pack them down.

Junior M
11-27-2008, 08:18 PM
Houston, we have a problem.:hammerhead:
:laugh: :laugh: I bet you had to go clean your pants out afterwards...

kreft
11-27-2008, 08:24 PM
Cats have 9 lives.....

Junior M
11-27-2008, 08:29 PM
Cats have 9 lives.....
But operators only have one...

CAT powered
11-27-2008, 08:52 PM
Couldn't you face down the hill with a roller attachment and do it that way so you don't flip?

http://www.skidsteersolutions.com/Skid_Steer_Smooth_Vibratory_Roller_66_p/pvsr-66.htm
Something like that?

And don't say it's too expensive. You just dropped over 60k on essentially a big toy.

bobcat_ron
11-27-2008, 09:26 PM
And no pictures either!! Damn it!

Cat's bigger butt saved it, Case has less of a rear end, (or more departure angle) than Cat does.
While I was climbing a manure pile yesterday, I felt my rear end drag on the concrete for a brief second as I went up, then it hit hard when I went down, that's the tipping point.

minimax
11-27-2008, 09:27 PM
ccstrebe,I think we should start calling you Junior instead of jlm335.
I would try to back up the jumps and have something on the front.
You might look at getting a mini-x when you have to work the front of these jumps,you can rent them or just buy one:).Because I think there is no way around working nose up on the jumps:nono::nono:.

minimax

Junior M
11-27-2008, 09:31 PM
ccstrebe,I think we should start calling you Junior instead of jlm335.
I would try to back up the jumps and have something on the front.
You might look at getting a mini-x when you have to work the front of these jumps,you can rent them or just buy one:).Because I think there is no way around working nose up on the jumps:nono::nono:.

minimax
I sure wouldnt attempt something like that, but I like the name Junior, we need KSSS he can come up with some good ones, I cant think of one right now, I ate way to much..

the GC were working for is calling me Junior, and he has no clue about this place, quite a coincidence,

stuvecorp
11-28-2008, 12:13 AM
Or, you could be Mini Me but you would have to fight Tiny Jeff for the rights to that name.:laugh:

Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving. I know I have alot to be thankful for.

CarterKraft
11-28-2008, 09:55 AM
Kudos for telling that story, even if the pride got dinged more than the machine.


Something odd about CAT machines not sure why...

6 years ago I had been working for Holt a couple of months and I drove a 236 backwards off a loading dock, don't ask.

It fell off and sat there like a turtle on it's shell while I climbed out and quickly got a telehandler to correct my mistake.
Same story no damage whatsoever (except my titie whities) and a very thankful operator (me) who didn't have the seat belt on.

Keep um shiny side up guys.

ccstrebe
11-28-2008, 11:35 AM
I sure wouldnt attempt something like that, but I like the name Junior, we need KSSS he can come up with some good ones, I cant think of one right now, I ate way to much..

the GC were working for is calling me Junior, and he has no clue about this place, quite a coincidence,

Actually, KSSS already came up with one for me when I first started posting.

He was calling me the "Cat Man"

ccstrebe
11-28-2008, 11:42 AM
And no pictures either!! Damn it!

Cat's bigger butt saved it, Case has less of a rear end, (or more departure angle) than Cat does.
While I was climbing a manure pile yesterday, I felt my rear end drag on the concrete for a brief second as I went up, then it hit hard when I went down, that's the tipping point.

Not only less rear end on the Case, but the rear end is some what rounded. I think that's one one the reasons why the Case rolled over on its side.

I was kicking myself for not getting a picture. I always keep a camera in the truck but I was in such a hurry to get that Cat upright that I totally forgot. My biggest concern was, what were the fluids doing in that position. There was a little hydro fluid leaking out some where, but I don't know where it was coming from.

ccstrebe
11-28-2008, 11:56 AM
I would try to back up the jumps and have something on the front.

You might look at getting a mini-x when you have to work the front of these jumps,you can rent them or just buy one:).Because I think there is no way around working nose up on the jumps:nono::nono:.

minimax

Couldn't you face down the hill with a roller attachment and do it that way so you don't flip?

And don't say it's too expensive. You just dropped over 60k on essentially a big toy.

I don't have to reface the jumps often enough to justify getting a different piece of equipment. I don't know if going backward would work but I'll try it. Those rollers are expensive, if I had an extra 8-9 grand I would upgrade my laser box grader to daul plane.

CarterKraft
11-28-2008, 01:14 PM
as good a fabricator as you are (or someone is that works for you) you could probally build a roller for your purpose that might better suit you, would be allot cheaper too.

ccstrebe
11-28-2008, 01:54 PM
as good a fabricator as you are (or someone is that works for you) you could probally build a roller for your purpose that might better suit you, would be allot cheaper too.

I'm the fabricator. Actually, I could use my ring roller to do the packing if I wanted.

CarterKraft
11-28-2008, 10:26 PM
You do some nice stuff, always impressed with good fab work.

maybe you could build a simliar setup with a water filled 24" pipe on pillow blocks that way there is plenty of counterweight and a smooth finish.

and bonus you get to build something else (my favorite part).

bobcat_ron
11-28-2008, 10:46 PM
Here's another project, build a shroud that covers the top of the rollers, that's my project for next year.
This dude has one on his ASV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K2OqjT_2tw

Construct'O
11-28-2008, 11:27 PM
Here's an idea !

Try making some wheely bars for the rear of the machine.:usflag:

ccstrebe
11-28-2008, 11:44 PM
Here's another project, build a shroud that covers the top of the rollers, that's my project for next year.
This dude has one on his ASV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K2OqjT_2tw

I have seen that video before and never noticed that shroud. I have actually been thinking about doing something in that area to keep the mud from building up on the flat area between the rollers.

ccstrebe
11-28-2008, 11:47 PM
Here's an idea !

Try making some wheely bars for the rear of the machine.:usflag:

Something to think about.

Scag48
11-30-2008, 09:49 PM
I've never fully "turtled" a machine, but I've rolled her backwards a couple times. The only times I've gone over, the machine just sits back on the departure angle and will eventually come forward. Done that a handfull of times backing over piles with an empty bucket and over she goes, I've never caused any damage, though.

The wheelie bar idea is probably your best bet. You probably don't need a huge amount of ground clearance given your application so I wouldn't worry about it hindering the machine. I'd fab up a bar that extends a foot or so past the ass of the machine and sits a little lower than the rear bumper as well.

Junior M
11-30-2008, 09:56 PM
I've never fully "turtled" a machine, but I've rolled her backwards a couple times. The only times I've gone over, the machine just sits back on the departure angle and will eventually come forward. Done that a handfull of times backing over piles with an empty bucket and over she goes,.

I've done that on a walkbehind! luckly nobody saw me:cool2: I think..:laugh:

ksss
12-01-2008, 01:27 AM
This is hard for me to write due to the level of stupidity involved. I was in a rush one morning and I was unloading my 440 off of the GN trailer. I forgot to put the ramps down and launched the machine right off the back. That was about 2 weeks ago. I planted the ass of the machine into the mud and the bucket was hung upon the trailer. I had my help pull the trailer ahead while I let the front of the machine down. No damage done but man that was stupid. Things happen. :hammerhead:

crab
12-01-2008, 01:32 AM
funny ,my advice was put the bucket down .but i guess that doesn't all ways work out.

coopers
12-01-2008, 03:41 AM
This is hard for me to write due to the level of stupidity involved. I was in a rush one morning and I was unloading my 440 off of the GN trailer. I forgot to put the ramps down and launched the machine right off the back. That was about 2 weeks ago. I planted the ass of the machine into the mud and the bucket was hung upon the trailer. I had my help pull the trailer ahead while I let the front of the machine down. No damage done but man that was stupid. Things happen. :hammerhead:

HAHAHA:laugh: Thanks for making me laugh KSSS!

Junior M
12-01-2008, 08:06 AM
This is hard for me to write due to the level of stupidity involved. I was in a rush one morning and I was unloading my 440 off of the GN trailer. I forgot to put the ramps down and launched the machine right off the back. That was about 2 weeks ago. I planted the ass of the machine into the mud and the bucket was hung upon the trailer. I had my help pull the trailer ahead while I let the front of the machine down. No damage done but man that was stupid. Things happen. :hammerhead:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Junior M
12-01-2008, 08:55 AM
This is hard for me to write due to the level of stupidity involved. I was in a rush one morning and I was unloading my 440 off of the GN trailer. I forgot to put the ramps down and launched the machine right off the back. That was about 2 weeks ago. I planted the ass of the machine into the mud and the bucket was hung upon the trailer. I had my help pull the trailer ahead while I let the front of the machine down. No damage done but man that was stupid. Things happen. :hammerhead:
How the crap did you forget the ramps? Thats as bad as forgetting to unchain it...

ksss
12-01-2008, 10:51 AM
How the crap did you forget the ramps? Thats as bad as forgetting to unchain it...


I think its a little worse than forgetting to unchain it. How did I forget? I was rushed, no excuse, I remembered as the machine flew off the back of the trailer. A little late by then though. It was quite a ride.

jefftb
12-01-2008, 07:41 PM
This is hard for me to write due to the level of stupidity involved. I was in a rush one morning and I was unloading my 440 off of the GN trailer. I forgot to put the ramps down and launched the machine right off the back. That was about 2 weeks ago. I planted the ass of the machine into the mud and the bucket was hung upon the trailer. I had my help pull the trailer ahead while I let the front of the machine down. No damage done but man that was stupid. Things happen. :hammerhead:

Crap that made me nearly spit out my scotch from laughter. Late to the Thanksgiving party-sorry.

As long as KSSS is handing out mea culpas, here's mine from two weeks ago.....

We had a wet weather conveyance creek crossing (re: stormwater outfall)
to cross with a PVC force main. This was a man made conveyance and poorly done so with short, steep slopes. It was wet from two days rain and the mini-ex would slide on the slope so we decided to fill in the gap across, i.e. bench it up a little and dig through as we moved up. So I hopped on a track machine and flew over to a spoil pile to get some fill.

Well, I came back over and travelled down the short slope to fill the gap and had to raise the bucket higher to see where I was placing it while dumping. Needless to say I got the dang thing too high in the air while leaning down the slope. Right across from me sat my operator in the mini.

Well I went over with the bucket high in the air headed right toward the cab of the mini. I could see/feel the tip over coming but could not stop as I was frozen with disbelief. I did manage to completely dump the load and turn the bucket straight down while dropping it. Had I not I would have shoved the bucket right into the cab of the mini. Well I planted it nearly face down-boom extended and bucket in the earth.

We strapped it the truck and pulled it back over. Me sitting in it the whole time.:rolleyes:

Proves two things, track machines can go over despite what most say and stupidity can happen at any time to all of us.

My guys gave me a :clapping: ovation......

Junior M
12-01-2008, 09:09 PM
The worst I ever did was putting in a new septic line for some people and the budget was tight so we got the tractor from the hunt club and were placing the gravel with the tractor and I couldnt get turned to dump straight in the hole, so I had to get half a bucket and drive parellel with the 4ft8in+ deep trench and dump it in, well, I got to close to the edge and dumped the whole left front end of the tractor in the hole, I managed to work myself out with the bucket, but I bout never got it out, luckily we were close to the end of the hole so I piled the gravel and dad placed it with the mini ex...


Oh, yeah and I've rolled Dad's new/used fourwheeler off of dovetail of the equipment trailer, I backed off crooked, and there isnt alot of screw up room and I dropped off the ramp and tried to be heroic and pull back up on the trailer and it rolled back on its side, that really hurt my nerves..

CAT powered
12-01-2008, 09:13 PM
Ever been bush hogging and had your front tires fall into an open test pit with only the loader on the tractor keeping you from falling the rest of the way in? I know I have...

Dug deep test pits for a possible subdivision on a hillside. Never happened. Test pits never got refilled and I was bush hogging with the Ford 2120 and in went the front of the tractor. I had to pull it out with a 3 yard loader. Oh and whoever said loaders are tippy on anything other than level ground... you're VERY wrong.