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Team-Green L&L
11-30-2008, 11:14 PM
I just got finished with a new website for my second company and wanted some feedback. I am great with SEO and web marketing, but I do question my design abilities and want some feedback on the layout, flow, navigation, and overall readability of the site.

www.AJSPromotionalMedia.com

Kiril
12-01-2008, 12:15 AM
I'm not going to beat around the bush here, so don't take it personally.

1) You make a note about code validation, yet the page the note is on doesn't validate, and it is using html 4.01 transitional DTD. I will assume the rest also do not.

2) NO code structure.

3) NO conformance to accessibility standards.

I am not going to comment on design other than the menu text should be more visible (larger).

CSS did validate for the page checked. :clapping:

Also, no offense man, but at the exorbitant prices you are charging, I would expect ALOT more out of the coding end (assuming your site is an example of what I can expect). Your code not anywhere near a professional level.

For the cost I would expect a minimum of XHTML strict, CSS 2.1 & 3, and small device support in your output source code. I would also expect support for XML, DHTML, JS, PHP, ASP, databases, Ruby, Ajax, etc..... for page building options.

If you are going to use your site as the "example", then IMHO you need to clean up the code considerably because you are not even following the basic rules of thumb for helping bots/spiders crawl your site.

Hope you don't hate me now. :)

Lawn-Scapes
12-01-2008, 12:16 AM
Looks okay.. but why don't you ask this at a web design forum?

Team-Green L&L
12-01-2008, 01:28 AM
Looks okay.. but why don't you ask this at a web design forum?

Because I have made all my friends on here from my landscaping company and I appreciate your comments (sometimes). I figured this was a Website Discussion Board, so I'd ask it here.

Team-Green L&L
12-01-2008, 01:46 AM
I'm not going to beat around the bush here, so don't take it personally.

1) You make a note about code validation, yet the page the note is on doesn't validate, and it is using html 4.01 transitional DTD. I will assume the rest also do not. That graphic means I donate to W3C and my code is most certainly valid. You may have checked it during updates, but it definitely valid code and css.

2) NO code structure. Not quite yet. I am a bit disorganized when writing and have to go back to organize it. I don't think that was what I was asking here though.

3) NO conformance to accessibility standards. Please Explain?

I am not going to comment on design other than the menu text should be more visible (larger). I will certainly address this shortly. Thank you.

CSS did validate for the page checked. :clapping:

Also, no offense man, but at the exorbitant prices you are charging, I would expect ALOT more out of the coding end (assuming your site is an example of what I can expect). Your code not anywhere near a professional level.

If you are criticizing my work portfolio from a site I built in 3 days without the help of my designers, then don't because it's not warranted. The optimization coding has just begun on this particular site. You can see my portfolio on the site and I keep adding to it. I am not charging near what others are for my services either. I make around $20 an hour if they pay premium pricing. I certainly would refrain from having reservation about another person's pricing structure though.

For the cost I would expect a minimum of XHTML strict, CSS 2.1 & 3, and small device support in your output source code. I would also expect support for XML, DHTML, JS, PHP, ASP, databases, Ruby, Ajax, etc..... for page building options. This is all design coding and jargon, which is subbed out to one of our 2 designers who are not even helping me on this yet. A site like this one would run around $500 if I were to sell it.

If you are going to use your site as the "example", then IMHO you need to clean up the code considerably because you are not even following the basic rules of thumb for helping bots/spiders crawl your site.
I certainly disagree with you, but I'd be happy to see your portfolio and decide whether your help could benefit me. If so, I'd certainly like to discuss SEO, SMO, SEM techniques in further depth.


Hope you don't hate me now. :)
Nope, not mad, but I either don't agree or don't know where you are coming from on most of this.

I will post a new thread in 8 weeks, when I'm #1 for 5 of my targeted keywords. Isn't that what I'm really saying I do well?

Kiril
12-01-2008, 01:58 AM
2 Errors :

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ajspromotionalmedia.com%2Findex-1.html

4 Errors, 1 warning:

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ajspromotionalmedia.com%2Findex-2.html

9 errors, 16 warnings (with XHTML strict DTD there are 54 errors, 1 warning):

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ajspromotionalmedia.com%2Findex-3.html

Should I check the other pages?

No offense once again man, but if I had developers coding in a DTD that is essentially being deprecated, I would fire them.

WAI -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/

Nope, not mad, but I either don't agree or don't know where you are coming from on most of this.

You asked for input, I gave it. What do you expect from a coder? As I have said before, bots read code. Structure the code correctly so the bots have food.

Kiril
12-01-2008, 02:08 AM
Structure as in -> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/html-spec/html-spec_5.html#SEC5

An HTML document is a tree of elements, including a head and body, headings, paragraphs, lists, etc.

Team-Green L&L
12-01-2008, 09:41 AM
Structure as in -> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/html-spec/html-spec_5.html#SEC5

An HTML document is a tree of elements, including a head and body, headings, paragraphs, lists, etc.

I do understand "Site Structure" and please advise me on what you have found in my code that violates W3C regulations on site structure. That is of utmost importance to me. I don't think W3C will validate a site with poor structure?

Team-Green L&L
12-01-2008, 09:45 AM
2 Errors :

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ajspromotionalmedia.com%2Findex-1.html

Passed: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ajspromotionalmedia.com%2F&charset=(detect+automatically)&doctype=Inline&group=0&verbose=1&user-agent=W3C_Validator%2F1.606

4 Errors, 1 warning:

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ajspromotionalmedia.com%2Findex-2.html

9 errors, 16 warnings (with XHTML strict DTD there are 54 errors, 1 warning):

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ajspromotionalmedia.com%2Findex-3.html

Should I check the other pages?

No offense once again man, but if I had developers coding in a DTD that is essentially being deprecated, I would fire them.

WAI -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/

I have only optimized the index (landing page) for now. Again, its only been 3 days since started this.

You asked for input, I gave it. What do you expect from a coder? As I have said before, bots read code. Structure the code correctly so the bots have food.

I am getting what I expected. I am not offended at all. It's always helpful to have a new set of eyes.

I originally designed the site on a Joomla platform, but didn't want to put forth so much time on a site that I didn't get paid for, so I just wrote it in the only language I really know (HTML).

Team-Green L&L
12-01-2008, 09:55 AM
I did some fishing to see if my competitors are writing their sites in (since we are all in the SEO game together) and found that our area's biggest firm,

www.pixelsanddots.com, uses: <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

Our second largest in Cininnati, Purple Trout www.purpletrout.com, uses: <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

So what is wrong with 4.1 Transitional in an SEO standpoint?

Kiril
12-01-2008, 10:13 AM
I do understand "Site Structure" and please advise me on what you have found in my code that violates W3C regulations on site structure. That is of utmost importance to me. I don't think W3C will validate a site with poor structure?

There is no official "standard" with regard to structure that I know of other than what is defined by the specification and by accessibility standards/recommendations. What I mean by document structure is the flow of the document code (eg. titles, headings, paragraphs, etc....). Build it like you would a word document or an XML document, so the flow of the document makes logical sense for both accessibility and searching reasons.

You can utilize the "show outline" option the validation parser offers. If you see no outline, your page structure needs work.

Kiril
12-01-2008, 10:15 AM
I am getting what I expected. I am not offended at all. It's always helpful to have a new set of eyes.

I originally designed the site on a Joomla platform, but didn't want to put forth so much time on a site that I didn't get paid for, so I just wrote it in the only language I really know (HTML).

Aren't you the same one who posted the Joomla site link like last week? Personally, I would have stuck with Joomla and found a template that was well written to modify or create my own from scratch.

Kiril
12-01-2008, 10:25 AM
So what is wrong with 4.1 Transitional in an SEO standpoint?

I'm not talking about DTD's from a SEO standpoint, I am talking about DTD's from a "going to be deprecated soon" standpoint. Professional developers should stay at or near the latest specs in order to avoid costly code upgrades when specifications change/deprecate. Wide spread adoption of HTML 5 is right around the corner (relatively speaking). Beyond that, newer specifications are FAR more flexible with respect to design options.

Team-Green L&L
12-01-2008, 11:54 AM
Aren't you the same one who posted the Joomla site link like last week? Personally, I would have stuck with Joomla and found a template that was well written to modify or create my own from scratch.

Yeah, that's getting back into the time vs money thing. Right now I have to focus on making money with my time unfortunately.

Team-Green L&L
12-01-2008, 11:57 AM
Thank you. I never even thought about the headings tags and how they would effect the crawling of code in that manner.

You can utilize the "show outline" option the validation parser offers. If you see no outline, your page structure needs work.

Team-Green L&L
12-01-2008, 01:41 PM
All code is valid now.

Danscapes
12-01-2008, 02:30 PM
Ummmmmmmmm, just what and the heck or you talking about?? How can I help a search engine find my site?

Team-Green L&L
12-01-2008, 03:11 PM
Ummmmmmmmm, just what and the heck or you talking about?? How can I help a search engine find my site?

Take a look at the website from the first post: www.ajspromotionalmedia.com (http://www.ajspromotionalmedia.com) and look around. Once you understand the concept of SEO it will be easier to understand how to do it.

Expect to put 150-200 hours in on a website if you are really looking to do this and if you want to learn yourself, expect to read for about 8 hours a day all winter. Then you will know what it takes to get started, but remember that Google is always changing their algorithm, so it always come back to content!