Cutting For Family Members ???

[Daleman]

I am just starting my lawn biz this spring, and am in the process of acquiring customers. My grandmother, and my uncle (live next door to each other) both want me to do their lawns. Do you guys give family members a deal?? They both have like 1 acre lawns, and I wouldn't feel right charging them $35 a cut (each) my price for that size yard!! Please help .............................

[PAPS]

Your price of $35.00 for (1) acre of mowing is way too low to begin... so there getting a steal of a deal at $35.00.

[Daleman]

$35 is too low? Both yards only take 45 minutes each!! I try to base my prices on 35$ an hour not by size of yard. These yards are extremely flat and have like no obstacles to cut around!

[CSRA Landscaping]

No joke. $35 per acre is kinda low. I think they'd be happy with that. If not, then it's up to you what to do. After all, it is your family.

[PAPS]

well... if thats the hourly rate what you're comfortable making then.. thats your call... but I would tell my two relatives that this is my price and thats it, take it or leave it. You got a right to earn too... if you don't mow there properties... someone else will.

[lamblawnscaping]

Not that it has anything to do with the price but what are you cutting with Dale?

I wouldn't feel right about charging 35 for an acre either, but thats cause i would feel ripped off, but then again i cut all my family's yards for free anyway.

[CSRA Landscaping]

Originally posted by lamblawnscaping
... but then again i cut all my family's yards for free anyway.

ROFL! :laugh:

[Daleman]

I use a 48" ZTR Rider :rolleyes: If that helps any

[lamblawnscaping]

I'm glad you find that funny Jeff, I take it that you don't hook up your family. Anyway, this is kind of a different question but do you guys let your employees cut their yards for free. If all goes as planned and we are done early on fridays I don't have a problem cutting my employees lawns, provided they are near by. Of course, they don't get paid for this.

[CSRA Landscaping]

Lamblawn, I find it extremely funny ... because that's how I would do it, if any of our family lived around us. :rolleyes: The almighty dollar isn't so in my life, so I can appreciate that, lamblawn. I'm sure that the employees will appreciate it, too. Sorry that you took me wrong. ;)

[PAPS]

again... it seems like you have a nice rider.. and you should get the money you want to mow there properties... that ZTR wasn't cheap... and if you cannot make a profit, and re-coop the cost of the mower per hour... then your not charging enough... so again... get you price...


As for my employees using any of our equipment... they are free to use any of our equipment on their time, that is in reason. My foreman's can take anything, any truck, tools, mowers, loader, chipper, etc. with no questions asked.. Any other workers i am less lienent with.

[LawnLad]

We cut my mother's house... it's part advertising and besides soemone has to do it. We send her the bill each month - but don't expect payment. We just credit it. This way she sees that she's getting $8,500 a year in value - at no cost. This limits the "Will you do this... and this... and this"

I think it's yoru choice. It would be better to treat them as a customer, or track the cost as if it were anyone else. How you handle the accounting and discounts is up to you and what your business can support.

We track all of our 'trade' type properties this way. Since we manage our billable hours very carefully and the revenue each crew generates, it would not be fair to hold it agasint the crew that cuts my rental properties, family properties or my house. Therefore, we assign a cost to these properties. At least I know my opportunity cost of doing this work - if I spent the time working for someone else, I would have that money in my pocket.

[2 man crew]

$35 per acre is low in my area too but Daleman is from Indiana. Maybe that's what the going rate is there. Anyway I give my family and good friends a small discount. You did say they are right next door. So if you give them a small discount it may even out because you are only making one stop. Remember you are working to make $

[lamblawnscaping]

Jeff,

No offense taken, and I didn't even mean for it to sound like i was offended, although i guess it did. Anyway, its nice to hear that I'm not the only one who wouldn't feel right taking my family's money.

[LawnLad]

About employees using equipment - I'm leary. Only because if something is broken come Monday morning, I'm loosing money.

We established a rental type fund... called "The Colony Fund". Any money from guys renting equipment goes into the fund. When there is a $100, we all go and get burgers, wings etc at this bar, odly enough, called The Colony.

Rental rates are arbitrary to some degree, and low. $5.00 for a back pack blower over night, $10 or $15 for a chain saw. $25 for the dump truck. It depends on how long they're going to have the equipment.

Having this system in place allows people to borrow equipment if they need it for a parents house, their own home, etc., but they realize that equipment is not free and has a cost to it. But, they wind up getting it back in the form of cheeseburgers, so it's no great loss to them to put $10 into the kitty for the use of the rototiller.

[Randy Scott]

The question here isn't a price question. We all know that we have different prices for parts of the country and world.
The question is about cutting family members properties for a price. I would say that is totally dependant on your relationship and your feelings about it. it really can go either way.
A) As being a family member you should give them a break, after all they are family.
B) But, as family they should understand you are a business man and should honor and respect you for being one by paying.

It's a tough call and for everyone that responds here you will get a different feeling in it. I'm in the middle. I have a sister I would do anything for, she has always helped me out when I need it and vice versa.
And, I have a brother I don't talk to, much less would I cut his grass for free, or for pay.

[lamblawnscaping]

LawnLad,

I really like the way you handle the billing for your mothers house. Do you get to write off the bill on your taxes. "The Colony Fund" sounds like a great idea too.

[LawnLad]

lamblawn - we choose to show on our management/internal P&L total revenue earned, which includes the 'family' cuts. In the revenue accounts we have a discounts/credits deduction. So we take it right back out before the revenue falls down to gross margin, etc. Therefore total revenue for the company is not over stated.

When we have our accountant prepare the financials, the revenue obviously doesn't include any freebe work.

I'm not convinced this is the best way to track this... since our % numbers are based on the total sales, which doesn't include the freebe work. So when I want to calculate production hours to revenue generated (even though we don't collect the freebe stuff), I have to remember to go back and add in the freebe work to get an accurate, and not a deflated view, of our production time to revenue. The freebe work is really considered an opportunity cost in my mind. We could still earn the money (since we spend the time doing the work) if I sold the work or chose not to provide the freebe service.

Does this make sense? Sometimes I confuse myself.

[PAPS]

i realize that price is NOT the issue of this topic... but what i am saying is that if he is charging $35.00 for an acre of work... he should not feel like thats too much to charge a relative, because as far as i am concerned its NOT enough to charge... so he should explain to his relatives that $35.00 is a great deal because most people charge more for this much turf mowing.

[anythinglawns]

I cut my grandparents grass free of charge. Reason being is that when I decided to do lawn care full time they helped me purchase my first commercial mower. I told them in exchange they would never have to pay. Other family members I don't do for "free" but I don't get any money either. My uncle lets me keep equipment and my old car in his garage in exchange. In doing these for "free" I have picked up many new customers that would stop as they where driving by and ask me to take a look at there lawn. I figure I am getting a lot of free advertisement from them.
Jason
Anything Lawns

[65hoss]

I guess I look at it a little different. My mothers house would always be free. No questions asked! I could never repay them for everything over the years.

Uncle or anyone else, well that is a different story. Yes, $35 is low. I would be around $55-$60 on that one. Offer him a family discount, but I still wouldn't go below $45.

What happens is this, everyone expects a DEAL. I quit cutting for friends also. They always want you to give them a deal. Before you know it, your working a lot but not making nothing. Your cost for the machines are the same regardless of lower prices or not. You must be able to make a profit. My policy now is this, no friends for cuttings. If they are in a bind or need help every so often then I charge them my going rate. Aerating, seeding, fertilizer, tractor work is a little different. There is more room to give a little. I just give them a little break of the price per sf. I even tell them, "this is what I normally get, and will do it for you for $xx. " Makes them feel real warm inside.

[Daleman]

TO 65Hoss and a few others who think I am too low in pricing, How long would it take you guys to cut a 1 acre completely flat yard (few trees along perimeter) Also please list what equip you would use. Also do you charge per sq, ft or by the hour? Just to get an idea of your "markets" and such .............

[65hoss]

My per acre price is usually in the $50-$65 range. Depending on the level of difficulty and # of other acres they might have. I run a eXmark Lazer HP 52", so it would be 15-30 minutes cutting time depending on landscaping. I have a wide open 2 acre church that takes 35 minutes for the entire cutting area.

I have my costs figured out on a per stop basis. I have my pricing based on this method. I have 8000sf properties I get $35 for.

[PAPS]

I get about $55 - $75 an acre depending on difficulty etc. We run (2) 52'' Ferris' and with (2) guys mowing it usually takes like 20 minutes to mow an acre of flat turf. I set a minimum of $30.00 on all lawns less than 6000 sq. ft and anything above is priced accordingly to time, and other variables.

[Daleman]

I did not mention that I do all the cutting. If I had a crew I would probably have to charge more, but currently I am the only employee :)

[65hoss]

Me too. I decided not to hire anyone this year. I have reorganized my business for high profit and lower volume.

[gogetter]

I cut my fathers lawn and my in-laws lawn free.
Uncles and aunts I would charge a reduced amount.
I'd have to charge brothers and sisters too. Too many of them to do for free (9) LoL! But they would get a reduced rate as well.

Grandparents? Hmm? I think they'd have to be freebies too:rolleyes:

As far as $35 for an acre? In the area that I started in last year, the lawns averaged about 7K sf. and I was getting $25 for those and $30 for lawns in the 8k sf. range.

This year I expect to target a different area with more upscale, larger lawns. If I could only get $35 for an acre, I'd be better off staying with the smaller crappy lawns.

Based on the information I've read here, I hope to be in the neighborhood of $50-55 per acre. (notice I said hope). ;)

[kroll]

Unless you never want free cookies, cake, pie,
or just a smile that means I understand.
DO NOT CHARGE GRANDMA.
now the Uncle is a different story.

[Turfdude]

Originally posted by lamblawnscaping
Not that it has anything to do with the price but what are you cutting with Dale?

I wouldn't feel right about charging 35 for an acre either, but thats cause i would feel ripped off, but then again i cut all my family's yards for free anyway.

Now if this guy was in W. Virginia, he'd be doing the entire state for free:D

Seriously, I agree w/ a lot of HOSS's statements. My family does not take unfair advantage of me/my bus. The little work I do for them I just charge enogh to cover my crews time and any disposal and/or material fees.

Let your conscience be your guide on this one. A lot depends on how you relate w/ your family.

Bob

[LJ lawn]

but ya gotta look at where this guy is from. what's the average $$ out in Lowell Indiana?PAPS- don't move down here to central NJ,we have a hard enough time tryng to get $40 an acre.sick ain't it? average home price is $150k + (for a crappy 2 bedroom 100x100 lot)average median family income (as per govt. stats.) is in the $53K range ,but we can't get over $40 an acre.gee, i can't wait for the whole new influx of scabs this season!

[PAPS]

I guess sometimes I take it for granted that we do work in "Bergen County" when it comes to landscaping prices. People in this area are willing to pay top dollar for quality service, no questions asked, and there is SOO much work to go around these days, that if you don't get your number...so be it.. there are plenty of jobs to bid on. ;)

[wildbilly1113]

Hey! Turfdude! Lay off of West Virginia! [The most beautiful state in the lower 48!] I do mow my family and wifes family for free. I also do some free mowing for a couple seniors.[Imagine living on 300-400 a month social security] You will not find more warmhearted people[west virginians] anywheres else! Icharge my regular customers 45-55 an acre.

[KirbysLawn]

Daleman,

You charge your family what you wish or do it for free, that's up to you. As for the $35 per hour, that sounds great at first. BUT, do you have any idea what your operating cost are? After you pay taxes on the $35 what's left, $21 -$22? Then figure fuel, travel time, insurance, mower payment, blah...blah...blah... What are you really making per hour?

[awm]

im wondering if these one acre lots are all yd.
most i know would only be about half. of course that can be bad anyhow if somebody has been putting out several new plants
every yr for twenty yrs. those are the ones i get a little tired of. most time no maintenance planning at all. later now.