PDA

View Full Version : How should I compensate my foreman?


PTP
12-08-2008, 11:49 PM
I want a foreman who is reliable, competent, and will stick with me for a couple of years.

The job description is being the head of a 2 man crew. It involves mowing, edging, trimming, and blowing. Nothing else. He will be responsible to mow about 130 1/4 acre properties per week and will mow for about 34 weeks per year - perhaps a little more. Overall the work is difficult and repetitive.

How would you compensate for this? Would you use a salary, hourly wage, or pay for the winter months? How much would you pay? Any sort of a bonus system? What about health insurance?

I would really appreciate input from the guys who have done something similar.

willretire@40
12-09-2008, 12:09 AM
$500 a week all year long. If that doesnt keep him then he aint worth it. If you want to offer bonus then cut it down to $450 and give him bonus that will equal $500 if he does a good J O B!!!!

qualitylandscaping
12-09-2008, 12:15 AM
Salary is tough in this business, as the hours never seem to be the same.We start around 6:45am and most of the guys don't get back until 6-10pm. This would be a nightmare on a salary schedule.

If you have set work hours, it may work for you though (ie. start at 7 and end at 3).

If you find a foreman you can trust, pay what you feel is fair, and something he is willing to accept. I usually give a 10% raise each year, 2-4 sick/vacation days for every year they've worked. Offer a Simple Interest IRA w/ 3% matching and health insurance after 2 years.

Too many employees come and go for us. I'm not willing to invest in someone until I know they are ready to invest in our future as a company.

Good luck

DLCS
12-09-2008, 09:26 AM
Salary is tough in this business, as the hours never seem to be the same.We start around 6:45am and most of the guys don't get back until 6-10pm. This would be a nightmare on a salary schedule.

If you have set work hours, it may work for you though (ie. start at 7 and end at 3).

If you find a foreman you can trust, pay what you feel is fair, and something he is willing to accept. I usually give a 10% raise each year, 2-4 sick/vacation days for every year they've worked. Offer a Simple Interest IRA w/ 3% matching and health insurance after 2 years.

Too many employees come and go for us. I'm not willing to invest in someone until I know they are ready to invest in our future as a company.

Good luck



You sound like a real gem of a boss. Tell me where do you find guys that will work from 7am-10pm and only make 16,000 per year. i'm going by what you posted in another thread, where you said payroll is 360,000 and that you had 22 employees. Man you need to keep your lies straight or at least read what you type.:laugh:

PTP
12-09-2008, 10:20 AM
$500 a week all year long. If that doesnt keep him then he aint worth it. If you want to offer bonus then cut it down to $450 and give him bonus that will equal $500 if he does a good J O B!!!!

So if they mow 130 lawns per week X 34 weeks = 4420 lawns mowed.

$500 X 52 weeks per year = $26,000

$26,000 / 4420 lawns = $5.88 per lawn.

I was paying my helper $7 per lawn this year but admittedly that was a little over priced.

qualitylandscaping
12-09-2008, 10:50 AM
You sound like a real gem of a boss. Tell me where do you find guys that will work from 7am-10pm and only make 16,000 per year. i'm going by what you posted in another thread, where you said payroll is 360,000 and that you had 22 employees. Man you need to keep your lies straight or at least read what you type.:laugh:

What a toolbag. The payroll numbers I posted for this year was not based on 22 employees. If you read my pictures thread, you would have noticed I am posting new numbers based on just completed and pending acquisitions.

You really don't know when to give up do you. Lets see some pics of your enterprise.

willretire@40
12-09-2008, 12:39 PM
I pay my Driver $6 per yard and the helper $5 per yard. Driver averages $15 per hour and the helper $12.50.

willretire@40
12-09-2008, 12:50 PM
For the 09' Season I am planning on working my guys hard 10-12 hrs a day 5 days a week cutting 150 lawns a week. Thats with a 2 man crew with a 36" stander and 21" toro in a long bed ford ranger.

Driver 150 x $6 = $900 a week x 30 weeks = $27,000
Helper 150 x $5 = $750 a week x 30 weeks = $22,500

Green Finger
12-09-2008, 01:00 PM
You sound like a real gem of a boss. Tell me where do you find guys that will work from 7am-10pm and only make 16,000 per year. i'm going by what you posted in another thread, where you said payroll is 360,000 and that you had 22 employees. Man you need to keep your lies straight or at least read what you type.:laugh:


Cutting so low.......wow:canadaflag:

Never let your right hand know what your left hand is doing:nono:

AintNoFun
12-09-2008, 01:12 PM
that was the same thread where you said you paid over 25k to unemployment.. the numbers match the lies dont lol



What a toolbag. The payroll numbers I posted for this year was not based on 22 employees. If you read my pictures thread, you would have noticed I am posting new numbers based on just completed and pending acquisitions.

You really don't know when to give up do you. Lets see some pics of your enterprise.

qualitylandscaping
12-09-2008, 02:06 PM
that was the same thread where you said you paid over 25k to unemployment.. the numbers match the lies dont lol

DO NOT EVER TAKE WHAT I SAY OUT OF CONTEXT. SHOW ME WHERE I SAID I PAY $25K IN UNEMPLOYMENT AND $365,000 IN PAYROLL FOR 22 GUYS......

My numbers are based on my staff level this year to date. I have not been at 22 guys until just recently, as I bought out a few companies and acquired the decent employees from each firm respectively.

Here's my quote:

"We're right around $365,000 in payroll. Our Unemployment rate is 7.15%.
Actually just moved into another shop, and I have posted a few pics on here. Once everything is in, I'll snap some better pics."


Seriously don't you have better things to do? I'm on this site to post my experiences and to maybe learn a few things. All you want to do is argue back and forth about things only a child would argue over. I have proved that my business is bigger than everyone who has called me out. Take that as a sign of what you can accomplish if you pull your heads out of your backsides, and become more of a listener, alittle less of a talker.

I am done arguing. I am not going to prove anything else, as I really don't care at this point. I come back here every year, hoping things have changed, but its still the same group of 12yr olds that can't grasp the concept someone of my age has achieved so much.

If the negatives continue, I will leave again. Not for reasons that I can't prove myself; more for the reason I feel I shouldn't and don't have to. I've worked for years to accomplish this, and I'm not going to take a beat down over anything anymore. I'm way out of your league, so don't waste my time.

AintNoFun
12-09-2008, 02:12 PM
im not arguing, just calling you out... i dont have anything better to do, friday was my last day for a few weeks so i got time...

yard_smart
12-09-2008, 02:39 PM
im not arguing, just calling you out... i dont have anything better to do, friday was my last day for a few weeks so i got time...

Maybe you should work on getting a web page, a signature, or possible ask Mr. Quality how you could grow your business to 22 employees?

I know i sure wouldn't mind hearing about the later one!

DLCS
12-09-2008, 04:08 PM
You really don't know when to give up do you. Lets see some pics of your enterprise.

I have posted a few pics in the past but not to brag up my business. I don't have a enterprise and I don't want one. Why is it when you post on this site, the first thing you do is come up with outlandish figures and post the same pics that you have in the past? You always seem like you are trying to prove that your some huge company. I personally think your posts are funny but many people here believe your crap. If anyone wants to see what I'm talking about then do a search for qualitylandscaping's posts starting from the begining on lawnsite and Plowsite. :waving:

AintNoFun
12-09-2008, 04:13 PM
i have a webpage, im not on here bragging so its not necessary.. plus i dont want my competition to find me on here if i say anything, dont need a signature, i have a user name, what else do you want my ss#?.. the size of his alleged business doesn't bother me its the fact hes on here bsing that bothers me..


case in point.. in another thread he talks about 3 shops...


Our newest (3rd) location..



i find this interesting, back in sept you posted you had one shop..

so in a matter of months you added to more shops...

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=244048&page=3





Maybe you should work on getting a web page, a signature, or possible ask Mr. Quality how you could grow your business to 22 employees?

I know i sure wouldn't mind hearing about the later one!

DLCS
12-09-2008, 04:14 PM
Maybe you should work on getting a web page, a signature, or possible ask Mr. Quality how you could grow your business to 22 employees?

I know i sure wouldn't mind hearing about the later one!


Really, I don't care how long a signature is, doesn't mean squat. Web page same thing, I can name several members on this site who have stolen pics from other members and called it their work. If you have read Steves posts since he has joined, you would see what I'm talking about. Growing a business is easy, keeping it is the hard part.

absolutelawnman
12-09-2008, 04:53 PM
as a fellow Oklahoman I am sure I can get you close on cost. I pay my drivers $11.00 to $12.50 per hour. I also have landscaping drivers on salary of $1300 every two weeks salary. I just took his normal hourly pay and chinese overtime and came up with a salary. None of the companies, and there are some large ones, in OKC pay per yard etc. we pay hourly and bonus, hourly and commission, salary or chinese overtime. Let me know if you have more questions.

PTP
12-09-2008, 06:49 PM
as a fellow Oklahoman I am sure I can get you close on cost. I pay my drivers $11.00 to $12.50 per hour. I also have landscaping drivers on salary of $1300 every two weeks salary. I just took his normal hourly pay and chinese overtime and came up with a salary. None of the companies, and there are some large ones, in OKC pay per yard etc. we pay hourly and bonus, hourly and commission, salary or chinese overtime. Let me know if you have more questions.

About mowing only, not landscaping, lets say that we are figuring on the higher figure of $12.50. How many lawns will they mow in a week and how many hours will it take? Or better yet, how much money will the crew gross.

Also, how many men in a crew?

Thanks, yours was one of the few helpful posts.

yard_smart
12-09-2008, 06:58 PM
i have a webpage, im not on here bragging so its not necessary.. plus i dont want my competition to find me on here if i say anything, dont need a signature, i have a user name, what else do you want my ss#?..

It's necessary to rank on google . . .

yard_smart
12-09-2008, 06:59 PM
Some of you guys just don't get it and never will

lawnman_scott
12-09-2008, 08:03 PM
DO NOT EVER TAKE WHAT I SAY OUT OF CONTEXT. SHOW ME WHERE I SAID I PAY $25K IN UNEMPLOYMENT AND $365,000 IN PAYROLL FOR 22 GUYS......

My numbers are based on my staff level this year to date. I have not been at 22 guys until just recently, as I bought out a few companies and acquired the decent employees from each firm respectively.

Here's my quote:

"We're right around $365,000 in payroll. Our Unemployment rate is 7.15%.
Actually just moved into another shop, and I have posted a few pics on here. Once everything is in, I'll snap some better pics."


Seriously don't you have better things to do? I'm on this site to post my experiences and to maybe learn a few things. All you want to do is argue back and forth about things only a child would argue over. I have proved that my business is bigger than everyone who has called me out. Take that as a sign of what you can accomplish if you pull your heads out of your backsides, and become more of a listener, alittle less of a talker.

I am done arguing. I am not going to prove anything else, as I really don't care at this point. I come back here every year, hoping things have changed, but its still the same group of 12yr olds that can't grasp the concept someone of my age has achieved so much.

If the negatives continue, I will leave again. Not for reasons that I can't prove myself; more for the reason I feel I shouldn't and don't have to. I've worked for years to accomplish this, and I'm not going to take a beat down over anything anymore. I'm way out of your league, so don't waste my time.All anyone asked for is a pic of the trucks and the 40ish ztrs. Its just funny that you come back after going around to the other places with your #'s that you make up to I guess compensate for something else you are lacking. And each time its the same, damn, we are still here.

Remember those pics of the fire when you claimed you were on the fire department? And then it came out that the department you said you were on didnt even fight that fire? That is what everyones problem is, you tell stories about everything.

AintNoFun
12-09-2008, 11:32 PM
Some of you guys just don't get it and never will



It's necessary to rank on google . . .

i dont care about google.. i dont need to advertise like that.. you think being found on lawnsite through google is part of my marketing/business plan. lol...

i would be more concerned about being seen having a free yahoo website!!

yard_smart
12-09-2008, 11:50 PM
you saying i have a free yahoo site?

and its not about being found on lawn site its about pushing your comp. off the first page you dumb ass !!!

try this on for size!
http://www.google.com/search?q=roof+cleaning+in+madison+indiana&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

AintNoFun
12-10-2008, 12:05 AM
you saying i have a free yahoo site?

and its not about being found on lawn site its about pushing your comp. off the first page you dumb ass !!!

try this on for size!
http://www.google.com/search?q=roof+cleaning+in+madison+indiana&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a



usually the big im to cheap to pay for hosting - hosted by yahoo logo on the bottom of the page is a dead give away...

yard_smart
12-10-2008, 12:49 AM
I actually put that on there because i make money of of it!!! I don't have to put it on there and if you think thats a free page your nuts. . . . your ripping the other guy about shoin off . . . well you see my site . . .wheres yours big boy?

DLCS
12-10-2008, 12:41 PM
your ripping the other guy about shoin off . . . ?



No, he is not. See you don't get it. Go back and read some of Steve's posts from the time he joined until now.

Green Finger
12-10-2008, 12:50 PM
Can we get a T.V. time out.:nono:

Better yet I'll stay out of it.

See ya

qualitylandscaping
12-10-2008, 01:53 PM
My first post on this thread and pretty much all others I've made was to give advice based on a question that was asked. My purpose here, is to help educate the green community and hopefully learn a few things myself.

I will no longer respond to "call outs" or "bashing". It wastes everyones time and this is not what a forum like this is set up for. I've proved myself in the real world, I hope you can say the same for yourself.

Have a great day.

theturfboss
12-10-2008, 08:12 PM
About mowing only, not landscaping, lets say that we are figuring on the higher figure of $12.50. How many lawns will they mow in a week and how many hours will it take? Or better yet, how much money will the crew gross.

Also, how many men in a crew?

Thanks, yours was one of the few helpful posts.

NOW THIS IS A GOOD THREAD! (Except for the guys who are in the pi$$ing match)

I have really worked on these numbers for the past couple of seasons. My residential crew (2 guys) will consistently mow right at $3,000 per week, in 40 hours. The foreman is on a $30K salary ($577 / week) and the other guy is at $12.50 / hour ($500) per week. The total weekly labor cost (after including 12% for taxes and insurance is about $1200. Labor for mowing is running right at 40%. Production for the crew is right at $75 per hour and $37.50 per man hour. I feel like the route is as tighter than most, and for the most part, I think we are priced right. I am basing this on how much production dollars are generated in a given time. I could be way off compared to some.

It would be awesome if some of you guys would provide the following feedback for comparison...

1. Number of workers on crew, with salary and hours worked.
2. Production dollars generated weekly
3. Hourly income per crew / man

Were not comparing prices here...just away to compare our business apples to apples and get better.

Chris

willretire@40
12-11-2008, 01:14 AM
I had a 2 man crew this year bring in $3k a week and it was about 42 hrs a week for each man. My route was very tight on 2 days and 1 day it was about 10 min between stops. The other 2 days were semi tight IMO.

RLC12065
12-12-2008, 07:36 PM
i have 2, 2 man crews, each crew grosses $3,500 in a 40 hour week. foreman make $20/hr, second guy makes $11-15/hr. payroll is about $1,600 per crew including taxes,comp,etc. labor is 45% of revenues.

yard_smart
12-12-2008, 09:36 PM
i have 2, 2 man crews, each crew grosses $3,500 in a 40 hour week. foreman make $20/hr, second guy makes $11-15/hr. payroll is about $1,600 per crew including taxes,comp,etc. labor is 45% of revenues.

ouch 45%! i bet your hating that

RLC12065
12-12-2008, 10:06 PM
no i don't hate it at all, i choose to pay my guys that much because they work very hard and are very loyal. i think that when you work hard you should be able to afford to live off your wage. my success is because of their hard work.

OUTLANDER
12-12-2008, 11:05 PM
no i don't hate it at all, i choose to pay my guys that much because they work very hard and are very loyal. i think that when you work hard you should be able to afford to live off your wage. my success is because of their hard work.

man you nailed that, that is soooo right...couldnt have put it bettter

yard_smart
12-13-2008, 01:47 AM
never said a thing about what you are paying them . . . a percentage is a percentage . . .wanna pay your guys $300/hour thats cool with my bro I just try to keep my labor around 35% if possible. . . What you pay your guys doesn't matter . . .you can lower that percentage by simply raising your prices

RLC12065
12-13-2008, 12:26 PM
my average lawn is about 12,000sq/ft and the going rate is about $40. im probably on the higher end as far as prices go. most guys do the same size lawns as i do for $35. so it would be tough to raise them any higher. luckily for me my fertilization, aeration and renovation work generates about $125.00 a man hour. if not for that i would have a hard time paying them that much.

yard_smart
12-13-2008, 01:11 PM
Raise your prices, that will make you loose a few lawns but now your doing less work for more moeny . . . .basic business rule

RLC12065
12-13-2008, 02:29 PM
a basic business rule is that theres a balance between price and the amount of work you get. lowballers get alot of work but make little money. if you price too high you might get more money per hour but at a certain point you dont get enough work to keep busy. easy pro as i stated im at the higher end already price wise. if i raise my prices too much i will not get new work and risk losing customers i already have. thanks for your input but ive been doing this for 14 years

yard_smart
12-13-2008, 04:02 PM
ok . . .

PTP
12-14-2008, 05:18 PM
Thanks for the info. Some of you were particularly helpful.

Any others want to chime in?

Superior L & L
12-14-2008, 06:11 PM
i have a webpage, im not on here bragging so its not necessary.. plus i dont want my competition to find me on here if i say anything, dont need a signature, i have a user name, what else do you want my ss#?.. the size of his alleged business doesn't bother me its the fact hes on here bsing that bothers me..


case in point.. in another thread he talks about 3 shops...

i find this interesting, back in sept you posted you had one shop..

so in a matter of months you added to more shops...

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=244048&page=3

Thats funny you say that!! I thought this guy was full of sh!t also.
1. It seams like he shows pics of the same three trucks only, but claims he has a fleet
2. He said he has mowing crews that pull a 40' trailer behind a F350 :hammerhead:
3. followed by a 5th wheel that they sleep in.:hammerhead:or they stay in hotels
4. And this crew does state work
5. He pays his foreman $28.00 per hour

There is no way a one ton could pull a 40' trailer full of ztrs.(40' is a small semi trailer !!)

State work goes to the low bid and there is no way you will be low bid when your paying guys $28.00 per hour, having tons of truck/travel time and then paying them food allowances and hotel rooms !

Superior L & L
12-25-2008, 08:56 AM
man this thread came to a hault!

kootoomootoo
12-25-2008, 10:17 PM
Cant believe anyone would lie about stuff on a message board.

AintNoFun
12-26-2008, 12:07 AM
Cant believe anyone would lie about stuff on a message board.

yea and i like to call them out on it! but i must be jealous!

kootoomootoo
12-26-2008, 12:19 AM
yea and i like to call them out on it! but i must be jealous!

nah just smarter than the average bear.

Josh.S
12-29-2008, 03:24 AM
For an 8 hour day of mowing we can do around $750. With that said, I a lot myself $20 per/hr and my helper $13 per/hr. So that comes to $264 for labor per day which is 35.2%.

In reality after everything is put away and fueled each day is more than 8 hours..

RLC12065
12-29-2008, 09:22 AM
For an 8 hour day of mowing we can do around $750. With that said, I a lot myself $20 per/hr and my helper $13 per/hr. So that comes to $264 for labor per day which is 35.2%.

In reality after everything is put away and fueled each day is more than 8 hours..

mowright thats before taxes and workers comp, add that in and its closer to $320. thats he real cost

JIM PALUCH
12-29-2008, 11:07 AM
IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU PAY THEM. . . . Now that I have your attention think about this. . . . I know people that are making $100,000 a year in the industry who quit that job to find another, and people making $25,000 a year that stay with a company for years. . . Pay them what works in your budgeting. . . Get that overwith. . . What I like about your questions is how to keep them. . . My experience with hundreds of comapnies we have worked with. . . SIMPLY INVOLVE THEM. . . Most foreman do not want to just cut grass 'thats all'. It is human nature to be involved, recognized, feel a sense of accomplishment, see the company or their client base growing. So to keep them. . . INVOLVE THEM. And to involve them probably means you have to continue to grow as a leader. It is not an easy thing to open up and get your employees involved. That is why the $100,000 employee does not stay, . . his owner is not giving him anything more than a PAYCHECK . . .

Here is another thought. . . YOUR CREW IS A DIRECT REFELCTION OF YOU . . . OH MY! That can scare many of us. If we want to improve our team. . . IMPROVE OURSELVES. . . .GOOD LUCK . . . MAKE 2009 A GREAT YEAR.

GO GET EM,
JIM PALUCH
www.jphorizons.com

Josh.S
12-30-2008, 03:03 AM
mowright thats before taxes and workers comp, add that in and its closer to $320. thats he real cost

The numbers I gave are after taxes and such.