What Would You Do?

[Five Star Lawn Care LLC]

I get a call from a reterment home last week and they are looking for a full maintnance bid on of there properties. He tells me the same guy has been doing it for the last 8 years and he is getting out of the business in the spring. Heres the Question.....Do u ask the property manager how much the last company was charging or not. The way im looking at it is, im not bidding aganst the other contractor so there would be no conflit there.

[1grnlwn]

It doesn't hurt to ask. Any Info can help! Some people don't want to tell because they always think someone might raise a lowball estimate if there current price was higher. IMHO

Mark

[LAWNS AND MOWER]

I would ask. What do you have to lose. Most of the time I'll ask a potential customer what the last guy was charging before I give them a price. Surprisingly, about 8 out of 10 times they will tell me. Personally, I wouldn't tell.

LAWNS AND MOWER

[General Grounds]

:blob3: not to be rude, but you guys cannot be that naive to think your gonna get the accurate answer esp. whwn dealing with a prop. manager whose year end bonus is based on what the property did'nt spend. if your not seeing the old signed agreement, then i would take what they have to say with a grain of salt. Tony

[Randy Scott]

I would never ask based on two reasons:
1) I wouldn't expect the truth from that person anyways.
2)But mainly, I know what I need to make money and what I want. I don't care what the other guy did it for. My bid is my price. If they don't accept it I'm not doing it for less. It's that simple. So many people try to base their prices off what the last guy did it for, or " a few bucks less", and all of a sudden your working for less than what you need. It just isn't for me.
I say submit your bid for what you think it's worth and that's it. They take it or leave it.:)

[General Grounds]

;) well said randy!!!!!

[ceaman]

I ask! I am starting in to my secoond year in buisiness and I was late to start last year. I offer a 10% discount to any customer who will show me an invoice or bid from a competing company. I understand I am lowballing myself but the more work I get the better off I am. As I get more established I can get the "take it or leave it" attitude. But for now I need all of the references I can get stating the "quality of work" and "ability to get the job done".

I am sure this will cause a uproar with some other members. I just hope it doesnt get ugly.

[PAPS]

I am not even gonna respond to that.... you know how i feel about that crap...

I would ask the manager what there "budget" is for grounds maintenance... you don't have to ask what the last year price was... but atleast get an idea what they can afford..

On that note, recently looked at a condo comlex that was roughly $80,000 a year for maint. my price.... there budget allowed for only $45,000 !!!! wish I knew that first....;)

[2 man crew]

One other angle might be to Ask who the other LCO is. Call him and see what kind of info he might tell you about the property. Info like how long it took to mow, how many guys, how picky are they, what kind of equipment he used. I'm sure price would pop out some were in the conversation too. But like Randy Scott and General Grounds said the old price does not really matter that much anyway. The other info would be very helpful. If this other LCO is getting out of the business he probably won’t mind talking to you. Plus if he is just letting accounts go like this one you are bidding on, HOW MANY MORE COULD YOU HAVE?!:eek:
Good luck.

[JimLewis]

Randy makes some very valid points. But I tend to agree with Paps and the others more. The flaw in the "they might lie to you if you ask" argument is that by doing this, they are only hurting themselves. If they drastically understate the amount they've actually been paying, any good contractor is going to say, "Oh, well forget it, then. I can't compete with that rate. Thanks anyway." and leave. Then they're out a good contractor just because they lied. Furthermore, I have a more trusting attitude of most people. I think most people are pretty honest.

I'd ask if it were me just because it gives you an idea if you even want to attempt a bid on it. Many times when I've been in this situation in the past I wasted a ton of time only to find out, like PAPS said, that I was way over their budget.

[Randy Scott]

ceaman, the only problem with your theory is that then you are stuck at low prices. Everyone will want a quality job at a low price, because that's what you did. And those that hired you are looking at price more than quality. You go up in price and they will probably kick you to the curb. It's hard to look past work when you're new and need some money v.s. no money, I know what you're saying. It's a tough situation when you're starting out but you have to try and get through it without screwing yourself out of work down the road.
Gotta do what you need though.:)

[RB]

Of course get the price, but don't make it the first thing you ask the prop. mgr.

Sell yourself and your superior service first then work it in. It might save you hours in preparing an estimate.

Ron

PS
Creaman -- that's a scrub move you're pulling and if I were a prop. mgr. it would seem like a bribe, in a way, to me.

[thelawnguy]

Randy has the right idea.

So the other guy did it for free-community service or something. You should too? I do the snow at a local gym, and referred a janitorial co. to them to do the cleaning. Well they didnt even consider the guy because the first thing he asks is how much the other people did it for? The mgr she basically told him, they arent doing their job which is why we have it out for bid again, what the diff what the other co did it for it wasnt worth it for any price...

Do your homework, figure your own pricing based on your own costs and expectations and go from there.

[ceaman]

I knew it would come to calling the name....

I agree that it is a undercutting move.... but here is the question...

You want to bid on a larger property... the owner may ask if you have references, (I dont think I am going to be able to use my references from high school days 15yrs ago) then they are going to say I have been using the same guy for _ years. Why should they give me a chance? Well the only way into a property managers heart is price. If they say they wouldnt change from the guy they have had because he does great work. I tell them "Great, if you were my client I wouldn't wan't you to leave me for price". If they say they were looking to replace him, I say "Great, lets discuss your needs" and try to upsale them on other services that weren't offered to them before.

I use flyers, newspaper, yellow pages, allong with having the truck and trailer lettered. I am a new company but I am not new to lawncare. I need to up my accounts 150% from last year, so I must do anything, and talk to everyone. I may lose accounts when the bump comes in price later, or they may realize that the quality is exceptional, and the price is a fair market value. I am sure I will get a few accounts that are keepers.

[Currier]

I may lose accounts when the bump comes in price later, or they may realize that the quality is exceptional, and the price is a fair market value. I am sure I will get a few accounts that are keepers.

Kind of like the other guy's keepers that you undercut from him?
That aside...

What I would do is go out and figure up your estimate. Walk the site and do all the normal stuff. Talk with the manager and see if he/she wants to give you info about what it went for before. Maybe even mention that you have worked up your bid. You have it with you and now you'd like to know where you stand.

If they are shopping for the cheapboy they'll probably dance around and talk about how they want personal service and all that...and how they are gettting several bids. You are better off without them. If they are wanting to pay fair market value maybe you can see how close or far apart each of your expectations are...

All I really know is with the new crop of startups that pops up every year it is a shame that undercutting becomes the desperate business strategy for growth.

[SLS]

Don't you just love it when you give a price and the potential client says "Whaaa??? ....but ol' Joe Blow did it for half that amount!"

I usually say:

"Better give Joe Blow a call." :D

Potential clients like these are best left alone as they will dump you in a heartbeat if they think that they can save a nickel with someone else anyway.

There are a few of these people in my vicinity...and there is a different scrub mowing their lawns every month or so. :rolleyes:

Oh well......

[eggy]

Ughh note to change the subjest but I have a nursing home that has some in that area who owes me a few thousand yet..So if there name is Cumberland River , dont bid on it anyway you wont get paid...just soom advice good luck.

[1grnlwn]

ceaman
I think the point some are making is a lot of people have hurt there business doing it that way. You will have to be very accurate in your costs and quoting. I am assuming you will not take every job, because the guy before you could have been out to corner the market last year. It is a good way to find out exactly what comp. is quoting. For the guys crying scrub, I hope you never shop at Wal-Mart, or Myers and always buy your gas at Shell because they have the best quality.:cool:

Good luck Be carefull

[65hoss]

Originally posted by Currier
All I really know is with the new crop of startups that pops up every year it is a shame that undercutting becomes the desperate business strategy for growth.

AMEN!
You not only undercutting others now, but undercutting yourself in the long run. Your driving your own market prices down. Hindsight is 20/20. To bad so many people learn this looking back. Why can't people see past today and realize there is a tomorrow?


I agree with Paps and JimLewis. Most people aren't going to give phony #'s. It usually doesn't help them. Sure, there are people who do this, but I think a majority would be honest.

[kutnkru]

Jeremy

Why should you cut 200 Residential lawns to get $3k weekly, when if you priced correctly you can cut 75 for the same income??? The answer is because you lack the knowledge of what others in your market are charging.

Instead of trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel to get by, you need to get "legitimate" estimates from other companies. Its apparent that you have been a long-time resident of your area, so you obviously know alot of people -LOL!!!

Put them to work for you. Im sure that your parents/relatives know someone or they themselves work for a company who outsources their grounds management needs. Ask them to get you some information.

They may not be able to get you a copy of the invoices or contracts but if the AP person says they spend $2500 yearly for just the mowing, then go back after hours and measure the property to determine what their contractor is charging. If you dont want to get concise measurements pace it off or visually study it to try to compare it to other sites you know of similar sizes and then you can gage how others charge somewhat.

The bottom line is your only hurting yourself. Im becoming more convinced that when guys like yourself keep the price shoppers swarming around you, it clears up the waters so I can see the BIGGER fish better.

Thank You!!!:D

[ceaman]

Kind of like the other guy's keepers that you undercut from him?

Yes, you are right. There are two companys that I would take $1 and mow every account they had. I believe that I am in the wrong for that but I have reasoning for it.

If they are wanting to pay fair market value maybe you can see how close or far apart each of your expectations are.

I always have my bid ready! I tell them what I felt was fair but if I am way off then I need to adjust. With my beating the other bid I may loose some and gain on others for example.

Last fall I was bidding snow removal to 2 apartment complexes. I would have bid either of them at $125 per plowing. The year prior one of them paid $70pp the other paid $415pp. I only got the account for the property that was making the bigger payment. I told her that for 373 per plowing I would include salting.

I made out at more than double what was fair to make off of this service, and provided a better service to them.

[ceaman]

I agree with you kutnkru

but I do know what they charge.... I have worked for them and done thier bidding.