Engine Swap

[KS_Grasscutter]

Ok, the 350 in my 1984 C20 smokes and makes every god awful noise an engine can make. It needs yanked out and rebuilt or just replaced. An idea I am kicking around, is putting a 5.7L Vortec 350 in it (order a reman Vortec longblock). I ASSUME the only thing I will need is a different intake, to put a carb on the otherwise fuel injected engine?

I guess the other route I could go is to rebuild mine, using a roller cam and whatnot?

[mowermankevin]

KS, Man I don't know about that, you would probably get better replies on the truck forum, I'm a small-block builder from way back, but anymore it takes a computer of knowledge to correctly mate parts. I don't know if a crate Vortec has all the same alignment as what your wanting to do, but one thing is for sure, there are plenty of bow-ties on here who do it EVERYDAY !!! and are current on it. I'm from the land of 2-0-2 Double-Hump Heads and their getting few and far between, don't get in a hurry, (if you can help it, it's cold as a well-diggers arse 27 degrees all day here, probably 10 degrees or less in Hutchison), anyhow post on several forums,see what happens.

[WCS Groundskeeper]

I own Chesapeake Engine & Machine And I would have a custom engine rebuilt with stock pistons, but change to a cam with a 194 degree @ .050 on intake with a 108/110 lobe separation. This setup will give you the low end torque, great gas mileage to tow & haul heavy weight. Used stock size valves (new 1 pc Stainless Steel @ $100.00 set and get new valve springs & locks. You could go with a Edelbrock Proformer intake if you wanted. Any questions email me @ motorheadtoo@gmail.com

[speedshop5]

i have repowered several of these truck in that year range always used a new gm crate motor from the chevy dealership. call around to get the best price usually a long block around $1500-$1800 with a heck of a good warranty, usually 3yrs 100000 miles transferrable. i have put the performer intake and a 600cfm edlebrocks and they run out great, due to that i only know one guy who can build a quad like it should be. only draw back using aftermarket parts is the aircleaner. except one and i fab a stock one to fit. let me know if you need any info or help i enjoy doing motor swaps..

[4.3mudder]

I might be wrong on this, but the Vortec engines have different heads on them that instead of the bolts going into the head form the intake are at an angle they go straight up and down. I know it is like that on the Vortec v6, Also I don't know if they make an intake for a carb setup for a vortec engine. Thats what I know, but I'm not 99% sure of that either. I know there is a company around here that sells long blocks already made up, usually 300-400 bucks, I think there called City Motor Supply, but that is here in Dallas. The GM crate motors are good. a friend of mine bought a 350 long block for them, cost him 1100 bucks, not bad I think. The problem with rebuilding, the block might have to be bored and honed, crank turned or replaced, cam bearings, and there are so many other things. I had a Chevy V6 rebuilt to go in my toyota 4runner, hell, I would have save a whole lot of money just going to the motor supply and getting one. Shoot I think I had to pay almost 450 to get the work done on it, that was only boring and honing, crank exchange, and cam bearing installation. It still pisses me off to this day, because I had to buy a 250 buck cam, then pistons, and everything on to of that GRRRR. So, I would go with a crate motor. It is already built, has warranty, and you know it is right and will work, with nothing extra. I have rebuilt 2 engines in my lifetime, a 262 V6 and a 327 V8, if you have the skill, knowledge, and want the learning experience, its a great way to go. So. Good luck

[speedshop5]

4.3 you are correct about intake/carb ont he vortex i have done it but the holes have to be redrilled and its a pain..we run vortex heads with edlebrock intake on our race cars..so it has been done. also those engines for $400 you don't really know what you are getting and what monday assembler put i together. you build it like you did at least you know you got a good one. i like putting them together but can't build them as cheap as a crate and give a warranty. the $1100 motor is a 2 pc rear seal (early model motor) he has the later 1 pc seal motor if its a 1984 or later...just curious what cam did you use in the 4.3 i built one for a guy in a 85' s-15 also changed and put a holley throttle body made a big differnce in power....

[4.3mudder]

4.3 you are correct about intake/carb ont he vortex i have done it but the holes have to be redrilled and its a pain..we run vortex heads with edlebrock intake on our race cars..so it has been done. also those engines for $400 you don't really know what you are getting and what monday assembler put i together. you build it like you did at least you know you got a good one. i like putting them together but can't build them as cheap as a crate and give a warranty. the $1100 motor is a 2 pc rear seal (early model motor) he has the later 1 pc seal motor if its a 1984 or later...just curious what cam did you use in the 4.3 i built one for a guy in a 85' s-15 also changed and put a holley throttle body made a big differnce in power....

Well, that company has been in business for years, so I think there are established.
Cam I used was Comp Cam, number 260AHR. This engine didn't have the balance shaft in the lifter valley, I wish it did though, man that thing shakes at idle, jeez. This engine is in my toyota, I did an engine swap last year. I had the Holley projection electronic fuel injection in it, nothing but problems, I guess it was really made for V8's. This wasn't no stock v6 either, .40 over pistons, mild cam, but the system didn't work out, way too much fuel. Put a carb on it, and still has one. I'm getting a different one here pretty soon. The one on it isn't worth a dam. Brand new edelbrock, 4 moths old. Engine is flooded out everytime you start it. 500 CFM they recommended, shoot it's too big. I;m going with a holley 350, I don't have much luck with holley crap either, but maybe this carb will work. The q jets are just so expensive. Heck, Holley is nuthing but trouble with me, electric fuel pump, year old, quit pumping. Bought a 650 double pumper for that engine in the picture up top, can't tune that sucker to nothing, then this projection kit. Hopefully this will be the last holley I buy, Edlebrock doesn't make anything smaller than a 500, pisses me off. I wan't a loppy cam in it, but since I had the fuel injection on it I chose the other cam. I dont wana have to take the radiator out to replace the cam either so I;m leaving it as is. It runs fine. I chose the comp cam because it was in my price range, hell that one was 260 for me! There not cheap.

[speedshop5]

sounds like you had nothing but trouble, get you a 350 done by dorton and should be happy. run them on my race cars also. excellent throttle response and hasn't given any trouble.. little pricey but worth every penny. what did you do with the injection setup???

[Valk]

On another thread someone stated that the fuel pump for fuel injection has a MUCH higher output than for a carburetor setup...so it may be an easy fix. The electric fuel pump was near the tank if I'm remembering correctly. Hope this helps.

[4.3mudder]

sounds like you had nothing but trouble, get you a 350 done by dorton and should be happy. run them on my race cars also. excellent throttle response and hasn't given any trouble.. little pricey but worth every penny. what did you do with the injection setup???

LOL, I sold the injection kit, gosh, maybe 7 months ago. I wanted that thingout of my sight! Well, I would have loved to have a v8 in it but the room was to compact.

[4.3mudder]

On another thread someone stated that the fuel pump for fuel injection has a MUCH higher output than for a carburetor setup...so it may be an easy fix. The electric fuel pump was near the tank if I'm remembering correctly. Hope this helps.

Correct, most fuel injected setups have usually 55-65 pounds of pressure that the pumps push out. Carburetors only need 7-10. If you use the wrong pump, it will flood the carb all the time, but I have the right pump, I made sure of that.

[salvagedrover]

why even bother? are you people that poor, that you can't retire a truck and just get a new-ish one? maybe if you didn't spend all of your money fixing old junk, or spent more time working to make more money, rather than thinking of ways to spend it, you wouldn't be wondering about an 1984 truck in 2009. fool. fools, there seem to be many of you.

[dishboy]

why even bother? are you people that poor, that you can't retire a truck and just get a new-ish one? maybe if you didn't spend all of your money fixing old junk, or spent more time working to make more money, rather than thinking of ways to spend it, you wouldn't be wondering about an 1984 truck in 2009. fool. fools, there seem to be many of you.

Good point.

[Den69RS96]

if your going to swap in a vortec engine your probably going to run into a few issues. The vortec heads have D shaped exhaust ports so make sure your exhaust manifolds or if your going with headers fit the heads. Also, if going with headers make sure you use the correct header gasket for the headers your running or you will have exhaust leaks. The 350 in your 84 c20 is a 1st design sb and has a 2 piece rear seal. In 1986, Chevy changed over to the 1 piece seal. If you buy a long block assembly, it should already have the correct oil pan so the seal shouldn't be an issue. Also, they went with center bolt valve covers vs the perimeter style on the older engine so you will need new valve covers. You will also need a vortec style intake manifold. Not really a big deal. Edelbrock makes performer vortec manifolds. I'm not sure if your truck has an electric fuel pump or not, but if it does, just put on an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator. Check out Summitracing.com or Jegs.com. they have tons of them.

[KS_Grasscutter]

Ok, thanks for all the info. I'm probably going to just look for an older 350 for it, to save the money over the vortec.

And salvagedrover or whatever the hell your name is, why would I junk out a truck that is otherwise in perfect condition, just because the engine knocks and burns oil? I can put an engine in it for $1000. It will cost me $40,000 plus to upgrade to a new truck. If you give me $39,000 I'll gladly go out and buy a new truck to please your dumb ass. There are more lawn care trucks in my town here from the early to mid 80s, then newer. I spend my money on new mowers, not trucks. Trucks don't directly make me money, mowers do.

The truck with a bad engine is worth $1000. With a good engine in it, it's worth about $3,000.

[4.3mudder]

[QUOTE=KS_Grasscutter;2674448]Ok, thanks for all the info. I'm probably going to just look for an older 350 for it, to save the money over the vortec.

QUOTE]

The problem with buying a used engine is you don't know the condition it is in. Sure you can look it over, but making sure it runs, doesn't smoke, burn oil things like that. Was the oil changed regularly, was it driven hard, was it run on low oil. When I bought that 262 V6 for my yota, I rebuilt it. The guy told me it had blow by, but It was going to be rebuilt anyways. I would look at a crate motor. I know they around 1500 for a complete. But, it has new everything, and warranty, can't beat that at all. Good luck

[topsites]

Heck the Blue book value of that truck is less than the engine costs, as a general rule
if it costs more to fix than it's worth it's easier to replace it whole.

Drop an '09 engine in an '84 vehicle and you still have a 1984 truck, only the engine is new but the whole rest of the truck
is still a worn out POS and it's as likely with the new power everything else starts to break under the added strain.

So I'd have to agree that with the cost of engines and the labor it's cheaper to just
buy a slightly newer used truck, you can get a 94-98 for 2-3 thousand and be done.

Not quite, most still need work, but I still wouldn't consider replacing engines on vehicles that
are worth less whole than what a single engine costs.

[Den69RS96]

I don't think your gonna get anything thats not going to need work for 2-3 grand regardless of the age.

KS,

You can buy a brand new 260hp long block for your truck for around 1500 if your swap over your intake and distributor. Its not hard to pull a sb. Have a few buddies over, some cold ones, and rent or buy a 2 ton hoist. In a weekend you can have a done.

http://www.jegs.com/p/GM+Performance/752506/10002/-1

[Jason Rose]

I don't think your gonna get anything thats not going to need work for 2-3 grand regardless of the age.

KS,

You can buy a brand new 260hp long block for your truck for around 1500 if your swap over your intake and distributor. Its not hard to pull a sb. Have a few buddies over, some cold ones, and rent or buy a 2 ton hoist. In a weekend you can have a done.

http://www.jegs.com/p/GM+Performance/752506/10002/-1

Handy he already knows a guy (friend of mine) that has a large shop, with a lift, and a engine hoist... and spent more than a few years as a mechanic, and he usually works for beer, unless you piss him off, then he dosn't do anything for you.

Unhandy, KS seems to change his mind more than most teen girls and has a million things he "wants to do", including this engine swap, or buying my Dodge dump truck, or buying other mowers, or putting a tranny in his 4x4, and so on and so on. Every day he says he's going to do something different. One day he's going to sell all his trucks and get one good one, next day he's going to fix up the 4x4 and paint it, next day he's looking for an engine for the C-20, next day he's back to the start again... Make a plan of action and follow through! Decide what your goal is and see it through to the end. :dizzy:

[KS_Grasscutter]

Handy he already knows a guy (friend of mine) that has a large shop, with a lift, and a engine hoist... and spent more than a few years as a mechanic, and he usually works for beer, unless you piss him off, then he dosn't do anything for you.

Unhandy, KS seems to change his mind more than most teen girls and has a million things he "wants to do", including this engine swap, or buying my Dodge dump truck, or buying other mowers, or putting a tranny in his 4x4, and so on and so on. Every day he says he's going to do something different. One day he's going to sell all his trucks and get one good one, next day he's going to fix up the 4x4 and paint it, next day he's looking for an engine for the C-20, next day he's back to the start again... Make a plan of action and follow through! Decide what your goal is and see it through to the end. :dizzy:


That wasn't rude at all...:hammerhead:

[Mr Priceless]

My neck of the woods:
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/pts/974130651.html
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/pts/966693673.html

Yours:
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/pts/977389557.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/pts/976871849.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/pts/972573789.html

these are at least 99% complete blocks that were posted FS in the last week. Well within budget IMO

[KS_Grasscutter]

Yea, getting a used engine is definitely much cheaper than getting a new or reman long block. Yea, you run the risk of it being junk, too. But, you can go through a couple to find a good one and still be well under the price of a new long block.