Laser Grader Install

[ksss]

Here is some pictures of the laser grader. These were taken at the start of the project around Memorial day. I never took any more pictures after this but it was completed around 12-7-08. I could easily bag on CAT for the length of time that it took and I have a right to. However, I will say this, they never accepted subpar accuracy, never asked for money until it was running perfectly. I doubt they made any money on this, actually I think they lost their ass on the install. However they had the Apache rep to fly out to train their people and went over the complete install of my machine. I spent a day with the Apache guy and learned a lot. If anyone needs a name of a guy that knows this Apache stuff inside and out get a hold of me. Final accuracy was as follows 1/8th in sand and 1/4 in 3/4 crushed roadbase. I was good with that. Total cost with attachment and install was about 19K. I also bought a new Trimble laser from these, nice laser has single slope capability with grade matching. I also have a Topcon Dual laser transmitter. I think for most jobs the Trimble will be enough. I plan on spending the Winter getting very familiar with this system (practicing in the numerous indoor horse arenas. Hopefully it pays off this Spring.

[Junior M]

Nice, so its fully automated, you just set the grade and it basically stops you from digging to deep?

[SellingIron]

WOW!!! I'm sorry to say but that looks like a complete mess. Theres wires hanging everywhere with a big LCD panel hanging in the cab. For that price I hope you got HBO or direct TV w/1080p..Bobcats 84" box blade with a Trimble GL412 (Single Slope) w/ hand held receiver and remote control) a mounted laser receiver sells for $14K.. You have 2 Hyd. hoses and one 7 pin plug going to the machine and thats it..Grades to 1/8 + or -...It looks like your attachment is setup for dual slope???:usflag:

[bobcat_ron]

Bobcatuser's set up is much better looking.

And I know you are going to rag on me for this, but yes, the Case's cab looks awfully narrow compared to........................................CAT.

[ksss]

WOW!!! I'm sorry to say but that looks like a complete mess. Theres wires hanging everywhere with a big LCD panel hanging in the cab. For that price I hope you got HBO or direct TV w/1080p..Bobcats 84" box blade with a Trimble GL412 (Single Slope) w/ hand held receiver and remote control) a mounted laser receiver sells for $14K.. You have 2 Hyd. hoses and one 7 pin plug going to the machine and thats it..Grades to 1/8 + or -...It looks like your attachment is setup for dual slope???:usflag:

Yes it is dual slope. Do you offer dual slope? I don't think you do. Everyone elses dual slope is same or more. Dual dozer was 22K, Level best was 27 I think.

[ksss]

Bobcatuser's set up is much better looking.

And I know you are going to rag on me for this, but yes, the Case's cab looks awfully narrow compared to........................................CAT.



Well I have to go to CAT today to pickup my charger for my laser and I will measure just to see.

[Construct'O]

Looks like you had a real serious look on your face checking your control box setting there!!!!!!!!

I like the one picture with your helpers standing on the box scraper.Was they there for extra weight to get it to go in the ground????? :)

As far as the wiring,there isn't much extra room in a skid to route everything.No big thing ,just don't get tangled up in them when your getting in and out.Will you be taking the control box off at night and when your not using it?

I take mine off the machine every time i get done at nights.

I will comment on the one thing that we talked about between yours and the hitch doctor is the wheels in the rear as compared to the wheel in the front on yours and others.If your off grade with the pile in front.You have to back up to start over the wheels will have to ride up over the spoil pile.

Not real big thing as you can lift it up backdrag it off with the rear of the box scraper,feather it out,then start over again.

If you don't backdrag it you would probably have to start your grade slower to give the wheels and laser time to adjust to the difference in the grade.

Snowing here today and i'm doing paperwork,getting ready to go on a collecting run here later.

SOOOOOOOOOO does anyone need there snow lasered off yet:laugh: Guess you could always use it to push snow with if things comes worst to worst!

Did you get the bugs all worked out finally and have you hit that "perfect grade yet":cool2:!!!!!!!!Good luck for the new year:drinkup::usflag:

[ksss]

WOW!!! I'm sorry to say but that looks like a complete mess. Theres wires hanging everywhere with a big LCD panel hanging in the cab. For that price I hope you got HBO or direct TV w/1080p..Bobcats 84" box blade with a Trimble GL412 (Single Slope) w/ hand held receiver and remote control) a mounted laser receiver sells for $14K.. You have 2 Hyd. hoses and one 7 pin plug going to the machine and thats it..Grades to 1/8 + or -...It looks like your attachment is setup for dual slope???:usflag:


I am not sure how successful BC box is. There was guy here who bought one and after several months of trying BC bought it back. I never did work right. There are many variables to your accuracy. Also BC cant begin to compete with this Apache system for versatility. Its not even a good comparison. It is of course dual slope BC is single only. I can change setting right from the cab which include speed of the system, I can adjust height grade setting from the cab. I can grade match. Adjust sensitivity, go from auto to manual at the flip of a switch. I can then take the "1080P" and put it in a dozer or smaller grader and do the same thing.

As far as looks, it is what it is. Bobcatuser and CC both use Apache components (Level Best and Southern Laser both use Apache). Only (Dual Dozer uses older Trimble stuff) and if it is a dual plane system it is identical. Same amount of wires although I have the auto/manual switch wired into my skid steer controls so there may be one extra cable coming from the box.

[ksss]

Looks like you had a real serious look on your face checking your control box setting there!!!!!!!!

I like the one picture with your helpers standing on the box scraper.Was they there for extra weight to get it to go in the ground????? :)

As far as the wiring,there isn't much extra room in a skid to route everything.No big thing ,just don't get tangled up in them when your getting in and out.Will you be taking the control box off at night and when your not using it?

I take mine off the machine every time i get done at nights.

I will comment on the one thing that we talked about between yours and the hitch doctor is the wheels in the rear as compared to the wheel in the front on yours and others.If your off grade with the pile in front.You have to back up to start over the wheels will have to ride up over the spoil pile.

Not real big thing as you can lift it up backdrag it off with the rear of the box scraper,feather it out,then start over again.

If you don't backdrag it you would probably have to start your grade slower to give the wheels and laser time to adjust to the difference in the grade.

Snowing here today and i'm doing paperwork,getting ready to go on a collecting run here later.

SOOOOOOOOOO does anyone need there snow lasered off yet:laugh: Guess you could always use it to push snow with if things comes worst to worst!

Did you get the bugs all worked out finally and have you hit that "perfect grade yet":cool2:!!!!!!!!Good luck for the new year:drinkup::usflag:


Yea they got it going the way I wanted. I anticpate taking the box out each night. Considering what it costs, I sure would not want to have it walk off. There were a lot of serious looks that day starting with "WTF I thought you did this before".

As far as the wheels I did not notice them getting in the way of the spoil. There is shock absorber type system at the coupler with takes some of the ups and downs out when going over bumps and ridges.

The guys standing on box were not there for weight although that is funny. The bigger guy was the main CAT install guy. The other guy was my guy.


We changed some of the routing. After working it for a couple hours many changes were needed to be made. I don't know that it looks any better, there is no getting around the cables but they are at least out of the way. That box certainly was not designed to go in a skid steer.

[Junior M]

So that is KSSS himself in the loader,, hmm I pictured you with less teeth.. :laugh: :laugh:

[stuvecorp]

I still have so many questions that would probably be answered by watching it in action. So when is the Kaiser Institute of Grading going to have the first class? Where do I send my registration and check?

[bobcat_ron]

Well I have to go to CAT today to pickup my charger for my laser and I will measure just to see.

Thanks, and I'll measure mine right away too, gotta un-plug my Kitty now, it's warming up.

[SellingIron]

Hey Ksss, I'm just giving you a hard time.. Every system is not perfect..You can adjust the speed cycles of the box blade and go manual if needed. Bobcat has dual slope on there laser grader. But if you can take that system out and adapt it to a much larger unit then thats a plus... I don't see a lot of my customers using dual slope down here in Florida.. I have one customer that builds tennis courts and they have 2-Laser Graders from me.

[ksss]

Hey Ksss, I'm just giving you a hard time.. Every system is not perfect..You can adjust the speed cycles of the box blade and go manual if needed. Bobcat has dual slope on there laser grader. But if you can take that system out and adapt it to a much larger unit then thats a plus... I don't see a lot of my customers using dual slope down here in Florida.. I have one customer that builds tennis courts and they have 2-Laser Graders from me.

I knew BC had dual plane on their grader attachment, I am not sure why they have not done that to their box blade yet. Your right the system is not perfect. How imperfect is still in question, am sure after more hours on it I'll know the answer. I looked at the BC box blade. If had dual plane capability I would have seriously considered it. My deal was this. Most single plane systems were about the same price. However for another 5-7 you could get dual plane capability. Most of what we have done in the past has been single plane probably 75%. However, I did not want to have to turn down work because I didn't have dual plane capability. You have already bought the bulk of the system with single plane, another 30% more and you can have it all was my thought.

[bobcat_ron]

Well I have to go to CAT today to pickup my charger for my laser and I will measure just to see.

My cab, 30 3/4" inside window to window, door opening is 27".
Cat C series are just a bit wider with a higher (or lower thresh hold) door opening

[ksss]

My cab, 30 3/4" inside window to window, door opening is 27".
Cat C series are just a bit wider with a higher (or lower thresh hold) door opening

My 440 is not here, but the 465 glass to glass on the inside is 28.75

I don't know if the 440 is any different or if the S3 machines are any wider. I never felt like it was insufficient. I am 6' 230. But when thats what you run, there probably is some adaptation that takes place. I feel like I need a lazy boy in a TK CTL cab (and ear protection):laugh:.

[Scag48]

You take the front door off the 440 in the summer? Or did you just remove it for the hassle time with the Cat boys?

[ksss]

You take the front door off the 440 in the summer? Or did you just remove it for the hassle time with the Cat boys?

Well as it turned out, both. I usually take the door off during the Summer. However to fit the 1080P sized monitor in the cab I had to remove the cab flashing at the top of the cab where the door seals. The 440 only has heat no AC.

[Scag48]

Well as it turned out, both. I usually take the door off during the Summer. However to fit the 1080P sized monitor in the cab I had to remove the cab flashing at the top of the cab where the door seals. The 440 only has heat no AC.

Makes sense to remove the door with no A/C. On that size of machine, I almost prefer no door even if it had A/C. Seems like you're never in them long enough to need/want the A/C and the door is a hinderance anyway. However, on a machine the size of a 465 when you're blasting material around for 7-8 hours straight, keep the A/C cranked and the tunes going.

[ksss]

Makes sense to remove the door with no A/C. On that size of machine, I almost prefer no door even if it had A/C. Seems like you're never in them long enough to need/want the A/C and the door is a hinderance anyway. However, on a machine the size of a 465 when you're blasting material around for 7-8 hours straight, keep the A/C cranked and the tunes going.


Thats exactly the way it works.

[stuvecorp]

We changed some of the routing. After working it for a couple hours many changes were needed to be made. I don't know that it looks any better, there is no getting around the cables but they are at least out of the way. That box certainly was not designed to go in a skid steer.

I am taking it that you would like some improvements on the box? Do you think the wiring will get better or less stuff to route as more are on the market?

[ksss]

I am taking it that you would like some improvements on the box? Do you think the wiring will get better or less stuff to route as more are on the market?


I don't see getting around the cables. The issue is, if its going in a skid steer you have a small cab no matter who's machine it is. All that routing has to go into the cab unless you mount the box outside of the machine. However, other than auto/man. you wont be able to control the functions. Thats why I say it is what it is. I really am ok with it. As long as it works I honestly could care less. Other machines like dozers and graders installation is much more clean. Its just the nature of putting it a skid steer I think, that combined with the dual plane feature which doubles all the wiring.

[ksss]

My 440 is not here, but the 465 glass to glass on the inside is 28.75

I don't know if the 440 is any different or if the S3 machines are any wider. I never felt like it was insufficient. I am 6' 230. But when thats what you run, there probably is some adaptation that takes place. I feel like I need a lazy boy in a TK CTL cab (and ear protection):laugh:.

I measured the 440 and glass to glass it is 30. I was at CASE and a 445 which did not have a cab was 31 from mesh to mesh.

[bobcat_ron]

I measured the 440 and glass to glass it is 30. I was at CASE and a 445 which did not have a cab was 31 from mesh to mesh.

hmmmm, interesting, it must be the loader arms that make me feel like a sardine.



mmmmm, sardines.

[Construct'O]

KSSS do you have any pictures of the control box up close? Guess i could check there website out and maybe get a closeup?

I posted this link before ,but here is a nice system for dual grade machines or box........... http://www.agl-lasers.com/
http://www.agl-lasers.com/alrs/alrs.htm

First link is home ,second link will show their control boxs.

If i was younger and starting over they would be a choice of mine or the Apache also like you have.:usflag:

[bobcatuser]

I don't see getting around the cables. The issue is, if its going in a skid steer you have a small cab no matter who's machine it is. All that routing has to go into the cab unless you mount the box outside of the machine. However, other than auto/man. you wont be able to control the functions. Thats why I say it is what it is. I really am ok with it. As long as it works I honestly could care less. Other machines like dozers and graders installation is much more clean. Its just the nature of putting it a skid steer I think, that combined with the dual plane feature which doubles all the wiring.

You need the remote cables. You can mount the control box on the attachment and the switches have all same functions as the box.

Leica makes a wireless system, one power cable to disconnect.

Construct'O this is the same control box that KSSS has.

[bobcatuser]

Now all you need is a Apache Storm Laserometer. It's basically a receiver that computes the grade difference. It has a 5" window and displays cm,mm,in, fractional inches or feet.

[ksss]

Now all you need is a Apache Storm Laserometer. It's basically a receiver that computes the grade difference. It has a 5" window and displays cm,mm,in, fractional inches or feet.

That Storm kicks ass and I will have one. I really dig that capture ability. Tells you exact how far off grade you are. I think is only just over 300 bills. Plus they are totally water proof.


I would really dig a wireless laser system. However I would be concerned with interfence when especially when running inside buildings. However if it worked like they say that would really be a benifit on a skid steer install.

[Scag48]

Someone else told me that the Storm reciever is the cat's ass, seems to be just the ticket especially for $300.