PDA

View Full Version : Gallery vs. Snapshot ?


ted putnam
12-19-2008, 09:19 PM
I've recieved a couple calls and a couple requests regarding weed control in beds. I have very little experience in this area but I am noticing that it could be a very lucrative upsell and I plan to mention in my prepay letter that I will be offering it along with a couple other services. I've already compared costs and for me Snapshot is pretty much double the price of Gallery per k. I'd like to know some of everyones thoughts on how they compare as far as results... speaking from personal experience of course. Thanks

DLAWNS
12-19-2008, 10:19 PM
I've used both and prefer Snapshot but it's so ridiculously expensive. I still use snapshot at the moment but I plan on trying others to save money.

greendoctor
12-20-2008, 12:04 AM
I've recieved a couple calls and a couple requests regarding weed control in beds. I have very little experience in this area but I am noticing that it could be a very lucrative upsell and I plan to mention in my prepay letter that I will be offering it along with a couple other services. I've already compared costs and for me Snapshot is pretty much double the price of Gallery per k. I'd like to know some of everyones thoughts on how they compare as far as results... speaking from personal experience of course. Thanks

Gallery is only for preemergent control of broadleaf weeds. You might have a problem with grassy weeds if Gallery is applied by itself. I tend not to sweat that because of the many options for grassy weed control in beds. But if you are after total control of all weeds, something like Barricade, Pre-M or Surflan should be in the mix. In my market, if you do not do weed control in beds, the account goes to someone else that does. Even if that someone else is a nonlicensed, lowballing hack. Because I do not have winter here, I have a good idea of what kind of weeds are going to be a problem. Snapshot granules is Gallery and Surflan. Mix your own and spray it out, enjoy superior weed control vs granules at a better price. Also, I do not apply preemergents unless they are going to be watered in within 24 hours of being applied. In the case of Ronstar Flo, you the applicator must water in the application.

Marcos
12-20-2008, 12:07 AM
I've recieved a couple calls and a couple requests regarding weed control in beds. I have very little experience in this area but I am noticing that it could be a very lucrative upsell and I plan to mention in my prepay letter that I will be offering it along with a couple other services. I've already compared costs and for me Snapshot is pretty much double the price of Gallery per k. I'd like to know some of everyones thoughts on how they compare as far as results... speaking from personal experience of course. Thanks

If you want to try to 'mimic' Snapshot in a liquid formulation, you'll certainly want to think about tank-mixing Gallery with something else, so that you can get a broader spectrum control on the monocots, too.

Gallery's label, by-in-large, lists primarily dicots (broadleaf) weeds.
You'll likely never get the same level of control with 'grassys' as you would with Snapshot, with even the maximum rate of Gallery, because it's just NOT in Gallery's chemistry.
(Believe me...I've been there...and RE-done this!! :cry::cry:)

I myself would probably go with either Dimension 2EW or Pendulum Aquacap.

I've been using Pendulum Aquacap for 3 years now...GREAT product! :)
Not the same as PRE-M, as far as staining is concerned, by a LONG shot!
Doesn't stink like PRE-M EC, either! :cry:

The Dimension 2EW is a new water-based formulation. Less volatility. Safer around plants for sure! Might be a little more expensive, I dunno.

But you'll have to do the math.
Hypothetically, tank-mixing one of these two products, is it cheaper going this way, or not?

greendoctor
12-20-2008, 12:47 AM
1 gallon of oryzalin 4L(Surflan) and 1 lb of Gallery DF is equal to 200 lb of Snapshot per acre. My cost on the oryzalin is $120/gallon and Gallery is $165/lb. A 50 lb bag of Snapshot is $120 per bag or $480 per acre. $480-$285= $195 difference. I get more consistent coverage and weed control as well from the tank mix. In the early 90's Snapshot was available as a DF as well. Forgot how much that costed per acre, but it was less than the Snapshot G. Don't understand why Dow dropped a great product.

Marcos
12-20-2008, 01:24 AM
1 gallon of oryzalin 4L(Surflan) and 1 lb of Gallery DF is equal to 200 lb of Snapshot per acre. My cost on the oryzalin is $120/gallon and Gallery is $165/lb. A 50 lb bag of Snapshot is $120 per bag or $480 per acre. $480-$285= $195 difference. I get more consistent coverage and weed control as well from the tank mix. In the early 90's Snapshot was available as a DF as well. Forgot how much that costed per acre, but it was less than the Snapshot G. Don't understand why Dow dropped a great product.

Oryzalin has a long, fine history of success, no doubt!
But it also has the notorious reputation of ORANGE-YELLOW STAINING, not unlike the precursor to Pendulum Aquacap, "Pendulum EC".


Unquestionably, now that the patent rights are off, oryzalin is tough to beat price-wise.
Just keep if off white vinyl, new concrete, any "new" surface you don't care to come back and scrub later!

greendoctor
12-20-2008, 03:08 AM
Oryzalin has a long, fine history of success, no doubt!
But it also has the notorious reputation of ORANGE-YELLOW STAINING, not unlike the precursor to Pendulum Aquacap, "Pendulum EC".


Unquestionably, now that the patent rights are off, oryzalin is tough to beat price-wise.
Just keep if off white vinyl, new concrete, any "new" surface you don't care to come back and scrub later!

Never had to clean it off of non target surfaces. That is why I apply in beds with a 23L 7676-24 gun and a fan tip. A regular wand will leave orange dots on walkways. Surflan is not something to give to a jock who needs to prove his manhood by hosing down 5000 sq ft in a minute. Yes, I work slow. Sure, there is a faster way to do everything. But all of that is like winning a nickel in the lottery when you have a mess of some kind to clean up. Be it granules or spray stains on hard surfaces. Snapshot and Pre-M G are terrible if left on concrete. Can you say orange polka dots that are hard to clean off.

azjojo99
12-20-2008, 09:20 AM
I use Pendulum Aquacap or Pre-M Aquacap. If you use the Pre-M make sure you spend the extra $ and get the Aquacap. It is a much cleaner product (less staining). Snapshot is good, but it is expensive. I also find it easier to spray a liquid rather than trying to put down a granular, especially on large hillside plantings.

Jason Rose
12-20-2008, 09:50 AM
When using liquid do you have trouble getting it around and under shrubs? Or do you only apply to the obvious open areas in the landscape? I see a lot of weeds that grow up right thru the middle of various shrubs... To me it's easier to apply granular because I can throw it right over the plants and it sifts down to the ground. I'd be fearful of spraying over the top of most landscape plants, plus liquid would just stick to the plant, not get onto the soil... Well, unless you followed the app with a watering. (I think I read on here about someone who does that, Greendoctor? I think)

grassman177
12-20-2008, 01:13 PM
i would use snaposhot. it has gallery in it and does wonderful. sure it is expensinve, but so is the application- you get what you pay for in service---it is all about timing and getting it watered in well soo after application. it takes two apps 4 weeks apart in spring and it is recomended on the labe to follow up with a fresh mulch. i have seen a big deference in apps done that do not get the fresh mulch, as in rock beds and cheap csutomers on the mulching every year. it does very well, will not get them all. the more you use it and make sure to kill off the things that do break through the more luck you will have in subsequent years. one thing i have noticed in particular is the vine weeds like milk weed and etc really are not controlled. we put a program with repeat visits using round up and hand pulling in some areas to complete the program through the year and to continue to gain control of the ones taht make it through.

greendoctor
12-20-2008, 02:01 PM
When using liquid do you have trouble getting it around and under shrubs? Or do you only apply to the obvious open areas in the landscape? I see a lot of weeds that grow up right thru the middle of various shrubs... To me it's easier to apply granular because I can throw it right over the plants and it sifts down to the ground. I'd be fearful of spraying over the top of most landscape plants, plus liquid would just stick to the plant, not get onto the soil... Well, unless you followed the app with a watering. (I think I read on here about someone who does that, Greendoctor? I think)

All preemergent applications are directed sprays unless it is over some kind of ground cover. That 23L gun has a straight extension which is good for spraying between and under shrubs. I do not use a JD-9 or Chemlawn gun. Both of those are only good for people trying to win a race. I am trying to perform a safe and effective application. Granules do not sift down that easily. In my situation, I am often treating ground covers that have sensitive growing points such as ophiopogon or liriope. Many ""landscapers" have caused damage by broadcasting granules on these types of plants. I water in because I do not want to lose any of the application to breakdown by light. I also use lots of
Ronstar Flo, especially when there are vining or trailing broadleaf weeds. Gallery is poor on those weeds. Failure to water that in causes extensive damage to whatever the Ronstar contacted.

ted putnam
12-20-2008, 04:26 PM
Thanks for the replies guys. It sounds like Snapshot is the better of the 2 products I asked about as far as spectrum of control, It also sounds like Pre-M Aquacap may be a much cheaper alternative. It would also be much easier for me to calibrate than a dry product. Any liquid product I would apply would be from a backpack with a teejet fan nozzle. Like Greendoctor was saying, I'm in no race. Quality not Quantity has always been my code. It makes your job much easier in the future. I've been uneasy about weed control in beds in the past due to replacement costs if a mistake is made. One mistake and any profit potential can be lost in the snap of a finger. I have in the past and will in the future spray Fusilade and sedgehammer in beds along with R-Up(It was just not something I suggested or advertised). The pre-emergence will give me a good head start. I've got a feeling this could be a nice little add on service that puts some gravy on my meat and potatos. Thanks for all of the great posts.

greendoctor
12-20-2008, 04:43 PM
My usual application equipment is an engine drive backpack fitted with a fan nozzle. Cannot imagine dragging a hose through someone's shrubs. BTW, the key to my not owing a client new plants is preemergent weed control. Lots of spray jockeys have torched plants by relying on glyphosate for weed control in and near beds. You are right about bed weed control adding to your value. My monthly fees go up when I have beds to maintain. Clients gladly pay it. A pro who can control weeds without hand weeding or damaging ornamentals is worth something to them. I am much more than just the lawn guy.

olive123
12-20-2008, 05:11 PM
greendoctor, snapshot is NOT surflan it is trifluralin, ie preen. much safer on most plantings and great on grasses.
The only drawback i see from a granular app is mechanical movement in the soil,
some like to apply it then mulch.(i know, redundant) that moves the protective barrier around.

ted putnam
12-20-2008, 07:03 PM
In regards to a program specific to ornamental beds, should I give a 2nd app of pre-emergents in say early summer to help late problems such as spurge? I've noticed through the years that in particular Spurge is a major problem in many beds (even ones well mulched) late in the summer.

greendoctor
12-21-2008, 01:39 AM
greendoctor, snapshot is NOT surflan it is trifluralin, ie preen. much safer on most plantings and great on grasses.
The only drawback i see from a granular app is mechanical movement in the soil,
some like to apply it then mulch.(i know, redundant) that moves the protective barrier around.

My bad. If it is then that explains the difference in control. Trifluralin is almost useless here in Hawaii. In hot climates, trifluralin is too volatile, oryzalin is stable for up to 6 months at the high rate here. Users of Snapshot here get lots of grass breakthrough, but little to no broadleaf problems. The isoxaben is not subject to break down due to the heat as long as it is watered in soon after application.

greendoctor
12-21-2008, 01:42 AM
In regards to a program specific to ornamental beds, should I give a 2nd app of pre-emergents in say early summer to help late problems such as spurge? I've noticed through the years that in particular Spurge is a major problem in many beds (even ones well mulched) late in the summer.

That is what Gallery is for. In most climates, Gallery is persistent for over 2 months. So spring, then summer should get you through the year. I have to do a program of rotating preemergents for all 12 months of the year.

grassman177
12-21-2008, 10:49 AM
sucks to be in hawaii, not the money, just the constant never ending battle. i enjoy the winter like a time to rejoice in my efforts of the year!!!!!!!!!

greendoctor
12-21-2008, 12:19 PM
I only have to keep up the constant battle for about a year or two. Then the seed bank in the soil starts to deplete and I can go to split applications every 6 months. Apparently, it does not suck enough to stop people from moving here. Sadly none of the real pros come here. From what I have seen, there are a whole lot of low ball, landscape gardeners from out of state who are better surfers than horticulturists. I can't surf, but people call me when they need insects or weeds controlled and the grass to be green.