What would you do....

[jrblawncare]

Hi all, I have been around lawnsite for some time but not here..Now that I'am full time in the biz I will be adding snow removal to my list of services this fall..I live in KY and will maybe get 5 pushes a year.I own a 94 dodge 2500 w/360...It has 90,000 miles on it but is in great shape..most miles are highway.I have been thinking of going to a diesal because of gas prices and just to have a newer work and biz.truck.I own the dodge..no payments!!If I add a plow to it it may cost what ... about 2500.00? Will I kill this high mile dodge?If I add the plow to this truck will it fit a newer modle in a year or two? Not sure what to do...Buy new plow ready with diesal or work with what I own and hope that it holds together...Blue book on my dodge is about 10,500.00 THANKS for your help.<p>----------<br>John <br>

[John DiMartino]

If you can swing new payments and are going for commercial work and big$-then go get a newone.On the other hand if your truck is in good condition and you have kept it well maintained,and you are just starting out with residentials and dont want to bury yourself before you even have an account,you might want to use your current truck.I look for trucks like yours to buy for plow trucks,I swear the older ones(if kept well) are as reliable as new(so long as theyv'e never plowed before).I have a new truck and 2 older ones because no matter how hard you try,that new truck will take a beating when plowing,both mechanically and cosmetically.If its a good truck Id keep what you have,and a 3/4 Pu is the best compromise in plow trucks,and dodge trucks turn the tightest,a must for plowing.<p>----------<br>John D<br>

[BillNero]

Hi John,<p>I came across your question on buying a Snowplow for your 94 Dodge. The 94 to 2000 dodges use the same mounting kit so you have a wide range of years that the plow can transfer to.<p>Bill<br><p><font size="1">Edited by: administrator

[jrblawncare]

John and Bill thanks for the fast Replies!!Anyone else have any thoughts...is my cost about right at $2500.00..Thank again

[BillNero]

Hi John,<p>As far as new plow prices are concerned, they tend to vary from region to region as well as manufacturer to manufacturer. For example, a Western 7.5' Pro Plow here in Illinois sells for $2600.00 and yet I've heard from guys in Ny-NJ area paying $2900.00.<p>Hope this helps.<p>Bill Nero

[jrblawncare]

Bill sounds like I was close...My roots are in up-state NY,Rochster...I will be making a few trips that way before fall sets in..May shop up there or in Ohio..Not sure what I find here in KY, guess I should start looking around.<p>----------<br>John <br>

[snow]

To start off, with a budget of $2500 you might want to consider looking at unassembled plows or used plows. You can get used plow blades cheap, along with old fisher frames(they mount outside the bumper).Or check with plow parts companie to get the newer assemblies. Monarch hydraulic 4-way power packs go for around $500(i think). If you want to have a brush guard on the truck, fisher made the plow mate which is a brush guard that hooks onto the frame. Look in your paper for used plows. Maybe with the extra money you'll have if you choose to go that way, you could get a sander.<p>Bryan<p>----------<br><br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.snowplow.web.com&quot;&gt;The Snowplow Homepage&lt;/a&gt;

[jrblawncare]

Bryan thanks for the info.I'am not really on a budget of $2500.00 that was just a guess at the cost to get me going...I'am thinking of going new because I would like to transfer it to a new truck in a year or two.I have also thought of a sander because we do get alot mixed weather here.Which do you feel is better for my truck..Western or Fisher? THANKS<p>----------<br>John <br>

[GeoffDiamond]

Do a search of past post. There will be arguments for the following brands.<p>Fisher<br>Western<br>Diamond<br>Meyer<br>Curtice<br>Snow Way.<p>Read the post and think about what type of a plow ya want. Then go from there.<p>I would go with Diamond or Fisher if it was me.<p>Geoff

[plowking35]

Heres what I would do.<br>Keep your truck, worst case senario you buy a new sub frame and wireing harness when you transfer to the new truck in a few years.<br>If you buy new plow get a v plow. No discussion just get one.Alot of banter could on and on all day about what plow is better, but the bottom line is get a v plow.Doesnt matter what brand just get one. If you only have one plow make it a v.<br>If not look for a good used plow. Bargains should be good right now, or ask your local dealer if he has any 99 left overs. I am sure he would like to get rid of a plow sitting in the shop.<br>So keep the truck and get a plow for it. Then take the money you would be paying on a new truck and save between now and winter and find an older truck in decent shape with a plow already on it. Keep it for a back up.<br>Why? Its not a matter of if, but when a truck will go down, and a back up is a wonderfull thing.Even new trucks break down.<br>Another reason is this, if you get the 50yr storm, throw a friend or employee in the truck and make your life easier or rake in some gravy money.<br>Lastly join SIMA. They will help you set up your plowing business and run it like one.<br>If you have any other ? feel free to e mail me.<br>Dino<p>----------<br> Professional Ice and Snow Management <br>Products:Services:Equipment www.sima.org

[jrblawncare]

Guys you have been a great help so far,looks like I will put some $ into Big Green and keep her.Coming from up-state NY I have been around alot of snow but only pushed a few times with friends so I have alot to learn.Plowking 35...who is SIMA are they like ALCA is to the Green Industry but for plowing?<p>----------<br>John <br>

[BillNero]

John, Snowplows are like opinions - everybody has their own opinion of &quot;The Best Plow&quot;. There is no such thing. Believe me - after twenty years in the business - I've seen & worked on all of them.<p>I would think you have to consider what brands are sold locally - do they stock parts - do they stay open late - etc. <p>If service is not an issue with you - that is - if you are mechanical and like maintaining your own equipment - then you might want to search outside your local area for price.<p>I respectfully disagree with &quot;plowking35&quot; on the V-Plow. V Plows certianly are unique and can save time in many cases but that isn't always the best answer. Their initial cost is aproximately $1000.00 higher than a straight blade and the repair parts are a lot more expensive. It helps to be a mechanic also. &quot;Pro-Wings&quot; can effectively get close to the performance of a V Plow and sell for under $200.00. They also can be removed if need be in less than a minute.<p>Here is an interesting concept. The Hiniker Company just introduced a &quot;C&quot; plow. I've seen video of it and the concept is fascinating. The moldboard is hinged above the main thrust area of the moldboard (aprox 15&quot;) so the operator can power the top 2/3 of the balde forward making it a &quot;Back drag&quot; Plow. Time will tell how it holds up.<p>At any rate I could go on forever as I too value my opinion.<p>Good Luck with the plow purchase and remember always carry an extra hose & solenoid!<p>THINK SNOW!<p>Bill<br><p><font size="1">Edited by: administrator

[firedog]

Hi Bill how's your summer going?.<p>Rob

[eggy]

Five pushes in KY??? Im in southern Indiana and looking at getting in the snow buisness to go along with my lawn care and counted the snows the past to years over 2 eaches only 2 per year......

[plowking35]

Yes SIMA is the Snow and Ice Management Association. www.sima.org<br>We just had our annual meting in Portland Maine, and education was the key. If we as contractors can educate ourselves And in turn the customer than we can raise the bar across the board and leave your competition in the dust.<br>Case in point, I have a meeting on 6-19-00 with a huge account regarding magic salt. When i first spoke to them, they mentioned a type of deicer that they are using. It is a very rare product that not many people know about, when he mentioned it, I knew exactly what it was and who made it. It made me look like a pro, I didnt put the product down, or bad talk it, it just showed that i knew what I was doing. <br>If it wasnt for SIMA I would not have a clue.<br>Also I am bidding some larger lots, that I may have been afaid to do in the past.<br>As far as v plows go, I can only speak from my experience. I have plowed with straight blades for 10 yrs, and the first time I used a v it saved me 20% time wise,now after a few years with them I can say that it saves 30-40% on every account that I do. If that isnt worth the extrs 500-1000$ than I dont know what is. I will never have a straight plow again.Like I said banter all you want, the v is the way to go. I know big outfits that have v plows on every truck and subs get 10-15 more per hour if they have v plows. It is a fact you will move more snow in less time with less spillage than with a staright plow, even if you have wings. And remember as soon as you put wings on a new plow you void the warranty.<br>Dino<p>----------<br> Professional Ice and Snow Management <br>Products:Services:Equipment www.sima.org

[jrblawncare]

Eggy..Its a guess...this year I counted three..folks here say the last two have been lite?<p>----------<br>John <br>

[BillNero]

OT: To Firedog - summer is going just fine - thanks for asking. <p>To Plowking35: Yes - I agree - education is a great thing! I wish more people got into their jobs as seriously as you seem to.<p>If I may ask, do you work for SIMA or just a member?<p>Bill<p><p>----------<br>THINK SNOW!<br>Bill

[plowking35]

Well I personally think of myself as more than a memeber. However I am not on their payroll. Very few people are. It is still very much a grass roots effort. My company personally gets involved in recruiting efforts and manning trade shows for them.<br>I know Tammy the Exec Director pretty well, and have agreat relationship with her. I worked on the new video that was just released, and talk about SIMA any chance I get. Snow removal is worth billions every year, and to not have a trade orginization for such a long time was unreal. Now that we have one, I feel it is my and every plow contractor, maker , dealer, supplier and related industries to get on board.<br>There is alot of education in the public sector, but very little in the private sector. With out SIMA I would not have learned about items that I now think every body should use and know about.<br>By giving back to SIMA we have grown. The more you give, the more you get. So even tho I am just a member,I think we all can be alot more than that.<br>Dino <p>----------<br> Professional Ice and Snow Management <br>Products:Services:Equipment www.sima.org

[eggy]

Yea I just cant see spending the cash here to get in it you almost need two plow trucks to do snow if your Dodge goes down what do you do??? I am not trying to get you scared but I just cant get any positive numbers .....

[BillNero]

Eggy, Your comments are well founded. I can't believe all the people I know taht don't carry any of the basic spare parts. Not eve a Hose or Solenoid. Several years ago when there was a plow shortage across the country, I had a conversation with a guy in early December that was panic strickin because he wanted me to mount a plow for him that day because of a threat of snow. His argument with me was that he had &quot;Contracts&quot; and needed a plow. I asked him when the contracts started. His November 1st answer blew me away. What an idiot and he considers himself a &quot;professional&quot; plower.<p>I too don't want to scare anyone away from the business. Is it not possible to have a back plower in case of a breakdown? Locally hear a lot of guys cover each other in times of need.<p>----------<br>THINK SNOW!<br>Bill

[n y snow pros]

I strongly agree with Plowking on education and SIMA.Yes SIMA is to the snow industry as ALCA is to the green,mind you not as big but then again there is more grass than snow.This might irritate some people out there but if you are not a SIMA member or not atleast thinking about what it might be able to do for your business than you arent too interested in making money.Since joining SIMA my snow business has grown to the point that i have given up the landscape maintenance and do snow 365 days a year.Oh and we only get 36inhes of snow per year,figure that one out

[eggy]

I guess I could have a back up plower but you would know whos accounts would be first....whats bad is that its coming to &quot;one stop shopping&quot; just like the mega wal mart stores...you gotta plow to get the mowing.

[plowking35]

Well that starts a whole new idea. If you have to bid the plowing to get the lawn care, then do it, just sub out the plowing. Let some guy with a loader, sub for you for 75 an hour, buy a box blade for 3500 and rake in the gravy. The key is managing the snow, you dont need 500 trucks and 10 loaders. If you take 10-25% off the top for shuffleing papers, and staying warm, then why not.<br>Its funny to John and I that most people want the lawn care and take the snow as the &^&%&^%&^% work, we as we see the snow as the real $$$$ and the grass as the pain in the %#^%$#^%$# work.<br>We do full maint. for a condo assoc., and we make as much if not more dec-april as we do from april to dec and only have to service them 5-10x. You tell me what makes more money.<br>All snow removal companies that are doing the system right, are making a margin in the 60+% range. There is very few services that one can own that will turn that sort of profit.That means for every $100 billed, 60+ dollars of that is profit. I know lawn maint will never turn those #'s<br>Dino<p>----------<br> Professional Ice and Snow Management <br>Products:Services:Equipment www.sima.org<p><br>&lt;font size=&quot;1&quot;&gt;Edited by: plowking35<br><p><font size="1">Edited by: plowking35

[GeoffDiamond]

I do snowplowing as a side biz, something my dad started 50 years ago when he started the company. So i wouldn't know anything about the grounds maintmance biz. I think Dino has given you some good tips. I will tell you there is big money in snow. When i took over the company my dad was useing snow just to pay the guys over the winter, now the snow side makes a profit pays the guys, and buys equipment for the whole company.<p>Geoff

[eggy]

I can see your point about the sub contract..we do have a few concrete companys that do snow I guess they would be good subs...I think you guys are in colder states then me...we only get on average two pushes per year...and almost no rsidentials are interested in snow.....I will say one thing no the lawn biz is not super profitable....nd one other thing you guys are teching me a lot about the snow biz!!! Thanks....

[jrblawncare]

Now,some of you have got me thinking I should not be doing this....I feel I should provide this service to my clients and to be a well-rounded business.Sure two trucks would be best...just can't do it now.Yes,it will take some time to show positive numbers for my 2500.00 to 3000.00 investment.When it does snow here...they are pushing with bob-cats..they bring them on a trailer..how cost effective can this be?Guys...is my thinking wrong?<p>----------<br>John <br>

[snow]

look at dinos post again. you don't even have to have a truck. subcontract the work to another contractor, and all you have to do is some paper work and you can earn some good $$. hire a guy to plow lots for $XX.XX per hour. you can also buy a snowpusher for around $3500 and it will triple productivity.<p>Bryan<p>----------<br><br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.snowplow.web.com&quot;&gt;The Snowplow Homepage&lt;/a&gt;

[GeoffDiamond]

Skidsteers move snow well, I have two of them. Might even buy another this year. Only i wouldn't buy one just to move snow. I you own a skidsteer than yea use that plow. If you don't own one, it might be hard to rent one the day of a storm, if everyone else gets the same idea. Maybe look into the cost of renting one for the whole winter, and see if you can get enough work to do with it when it's not snowing to make it worth it.<p>Geoff

[BillNero]

Bryon is right. Snowpushers can be had for as little as $2700.00 depending on what size skidsteer you have.<p>Boss also offers a 90&quot; Snow & Dirt V-Plow made just for skidsteers. We have sold a few to some Municipal accounts as well as Contractors.<p>If you'd need more info - look up my email address in my profile and send me a note.<p>----------<br>THINK SNOW!<br>Bill

[BillNero]

To Chuck our Forum Moderator: No big deal but have you noticed the time stamp of the replys is off<p>----------<br>THINK SNOW!<br>Bill

[Administrator]

Yep, I noticed that a while back.. I think its the right time somewhere in the world but not in Raymore, Missouri.<p>Its a problem that can be fixed but sometimes the fix is not worth the hassle... I will be doing a software upgrade soon enough and I will worry about it then.

[jrblawncare]

Well guys thanks for all your help in the past...but I'm looking for more.An update..I got my plow now it sits on a 1987 dodge Dakota..its a Western w/uni-mount system #60120 6'-6"...it has western solenoidisarmatic hydraulics.I beleave I could get a bigger plow for my 3/4 ton 94 Dodge but this will work....?This plow and system is only 3 years old.The price..FREE it was given to me from a family member up north.All I have to do is go up north and have it mounted on my truck..I lucked out on this one!!I have a lot of ???,I would like to be able to give one of you PROS a call at home...any takers?Please e-mail me a phone number and a good time to call and I will do so.THANKS JOHN