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View Full Version : 7.3l vs 6.0l powerstroke, which one and why?


UrbanGreen
01-01-2009, 06:28 PM
I have been in search of an older f250 with the 7.3l powerstroke for quite a while now and have'nt had so much luck finding one. I have constantly been told to avoid the 6.0l and just keep looking for the 7.3l. I have heard the horror stories of the early 6.0's but what about the later ones? Why is the 7.3 considered to be so much better and why not go with one of the later 6.0's?

Green Pastures
01-01-2009, 06:39 PM
Look I'm not trying to be a dick.....

But this subject has been discussed ad nauseam on about 357,621,802,653,775,219 different internet forums since 04' when the new 6.0 replaced the 7.3.

Please make liberal use of the SEARCH function on this and MANY other forums.

Gravel Rat
01-01-2009, 06:44 PM
Look for a 05 to 07 6.0 and get a OASIS report on it. I bought a 03 6.0 but the OASIS was clean and I'am happy with the truck. You are going to have a very tough time finding a 7.3 powered truck most of them are worn out high mileage trucks.

Ford trucks are always in demand people want them so its why its hard to find a good used truck.

I looked for a long time to find a F-450 or F-550 with 7.3 couldn't find a truck in good shape so I looked at the 6.0. I took my time looking for a 6.0 too.

The pros about the 6.0

More power over a 7.3
Quieter than a 7.3
Fuel economy is a little better

The Cons

You could end up with a truck that a dealer and owner made into a problem child. The biggest problem with the 6.0 was the dealers that can't work on them and made the simple problem worse. The owners are at fault for not doing maintenance and having a tuner pushing the engine past its limits.

The people that boo hoo the 6.0 are people that never owned one or ones that had one and caused their own problems and had a dealer with a inexperienced mechanic.

The newer 6.0s had most of the problems cured but they still can have troubles.

The 6.0 is a little more finnicky about maintenance like keeping the oil changed and the fuel filters kept up.

Once you get a 6.0 GRIN you will never get rid of it. I will never go back to a 7.3 again. To start with I don't think I could take the noise and the 7.3 doesn't have near the tire fire power as a 6.0 in stock form.

Oh ya a OASIS report is the trucks repair history done through Ford it shows all the warranty work done. If the OASIS report comes out to be a laundry list of problems then don't buy the truck.

UrbanGreen
01-01-2009, 07:10 PM
Thanks for the helpful reply. I didn't think about the OASIS report before thank you.

12Valve
01-01-2009, 10:05 PM
Ford quit making dependible trucks in 03. 6.0 have problems with injector orings, heads, headgaskets, turbo's just to name a few.

jefftb
01-01-2009, 10:26 PM
I'll speak with actual ownership information for me as well as some of my subs and friends.

I had a 2004 F250 6.0.

Had.

Within the first 15,000 miles the truck needed work on the heads (twice), the turbo (once), and the transmission (twice). The suggestion from Ford was that we should add additive to each fill-up and they gave us three bottles complimentary. The additive was diesel kleen under another name no doubt.

A very good sub (and friend) has just recently had his 2005 6.0 in the shop twice in two months for turbo work. Mine died/puked on the on-ramp.:cry:

My local shop works on quite a bit of 6.0's for a federal agency.

I gave up on my 6.0 and found a very gently used 2003 F350 CC 7.3 PSD.

GR can talk crap about the 7.3 PSD all he wants. The 7.3 is the most reliable diesel engine FORD made. Period. There are numerous individuals on a very popular Ford Forum that switched from the 6.0 to the 7.3. You can expect 300,000+ from the engine with maintenance. However, the 7.3 variants will have the weaker Ford 4R100 transmission.

When the 6.0 works and runs there is no comparison between it and the 7.3 The 6.0 will pull away in every category over the 7.3. 7.3 Noisier? Yep. 7.3 lacks HP? Yep.

I however want my truck to start and run when expected. My 6.0 resulted in 4 weeks lost downtime in one year. My 7.3 will tow my 12,000 lbs just like the 6.0. I might arrive a few minutes later but I can expect to arrive.

The 2006 and 2007 models of the 6.0 seem to be much better products. If looking at one stick to those years. However, be prepared for high repair costs in the back of your mind-they will most likely come at some point.

As an aside if you really want something that approaches the 6.0, find yourself a V10 6.8L Ford and swap the ring gears out to the 4.30. That truck very nearly equals the 6.0/6.4 in towing performance. I'm moving my F350 down to crew truck category in the near term and have my sights set on the V10.

Jerry Lee
01-01-2009, 10:40 PM
7.3 is ur best bet for dependability

TXNSLighting
01-01-2009, 10:55 PM
03-05 6.0's had their problems, but there were still quite a few good ones out there. 06 and 07 had very little issues and are great trucks to own. They beat the 7.3 in every category.

I used to own an 04 6.0 that was very problematic. But i would own another one. It was my own dang fault for buying and 04 and not getting an oasis report. You should never buy a first year engine. So in closing if you can find an 02 or 03 7.3 with under 100k miles jump on it. Otherwise get an 06-07 powerstroke.

And as someone else stated the V10 is a great engine, even tho its a gasser.

nosparkplugs
01-01-2009, 11:35 PM
When the Ford dominate clan talks trash about the rest I have ZERO PITTY?? quietly these threads have emerged across the WWW over the years. Lawnsite has been drinking the Ford "Kool Aide" for WAYYY to long. The 7.3L vs 6.0L debate is never ending Many would ride the Ford brand loyalty bus off the bridge if only to save their own arse; which is insane. Ford & International are suing each other over who should be responsible for excessive warranty claims, that alone has drove owners away from Ford.


Here's some salt for the wound

http://www.fordcummins.com/

6.0 main flaw is weak head gaskets, easy fix with APR head studs that will solve many of the issues. Some folks were smarter, and invest in the APR head studs right out of the box

Aftermarket intercooler solves the turbo issues

EGR delete is "illegal":sleeping:, but is the last weak link

The 6.0 will then lay down some reliable neck snapping torque


With the most trucks on the road Ford should have it right, but that's always been the excuse for their problems.

CrystalCreek
01-01-2009, 11:41 PM
'04 powerstroke owner here. I LOVE MY TRUCK!!! I cant believe I am about to type this, but Gravel Rat is right. Once you get the 6.0 grin, you will never go back. Gravel Rat is also very right about most of the problems are inflicted by the owners themselves. I will caution you about some of the problems. The 6.0 have an internal EGR cooler. They tend to fail. There is a very simple procedure to remove it. This is the one biggest problem with these engines. The removal costs are less than $200 if you do it yourself. PM and I can tell you more. The engines also sometimes blow head gaskets. But this is mostly due to jacka$$'s hotrodding their engines. Trust me, I'm one of those jacka$$'s:hammerhead::hammerhead: I had it fixed under warranty and at the same time they upgraded the head bolts with head studs. No more problems:) You will hear people say that these engines cant idle because it will destroy the turbo. This is why the EGR delete is so important. My truck idles heavily. My personal truck has over 7000 hours with no problems. My work truck, from when I worked in the utility company, which was a 6.0 also, had 22000 hours. I trust my 6.0. Get one. You will be very happy. Find a good dealer that has a good diesel mechanic. If you are looking for a good website, check out Powerstroke.org. Great info on there.

jefftb
01-01-2009, 11:43 PM
When the Ford dominate clan talks trash about the rest I have ZERO PITTY?? quietly these threads have emerged across the WWW over the years. Lawnsite has been drinking the Ford "Kool Aide" for WAYYY to long. The 7.3L vs 6.0L debate is never ending Many would ride the Ford brand loyalty bus off the bridge if only to save their own arse; which is insane. Ford & International are suing each other over who should be responsible for excessive warranty claims, that alone has drove owners away from Ford.


Here's some salt for the wound

http://www.fordcummins.com/

6.0 main flaw is weak head gaskets, easy fix with APR head studs that will solve many of the issues. Some folks were smarter, and invest in the APR head studs right out of the box

Aftermarket intercooler solves the turbo issues

EGR delete is "illegal":sleeping:, but is the last weak link

The 6.0 will then lay down some reliable neck snapping torque


With the most trucks on the road Ford should have it right, but that's always been the excuse for their problems.

Can you explain the intent of your post? Was it an attack against FORD owners? What Kool-Aide are you referring to? Seriously what was the point of the first paragraph?

CrystalCreek
01-01-2009, 11:55 PM
Can you explain the intent of your post? Was it an attack against FORD owners? What Kool-Aide are you referring to? Seriously what was the point of the first paragraph?

He had a ford that let him down pretty early in the trucks life. I too would be pissed. I do think that it was a 7.3 also. He switched to dodge, which has a much better engine if you ask me, but I still like the ford truck myself. I think that ford has a better fit and finish.

You need to understand that people will stick up for they vehicles, even when it is on fire and up side down. "Did you see my truck burn, a stuipd chevy would never burn that good":laugh::laugh::laugh: I am a diehard 6.0 owner. I did have to invest a butt load of money to get my truck to its point, but it will kick the snot out of most any truck I come up against. Most of my problems were caused by me, so I hold ford at no fault. Happy new year everyone.

UrbanGreen
01-02-2009, 12:02 AM
Crystal Creek,
I pm you some questions, thanks

jefftb
01-02-2009, 12:02 AM
On second thought, don't clarify....Your reference to the FordCummins.com combination just proves that Ford makes a good product, Cummins makes a good product but Dodge...well not so much.:)

Just kidding, I drink no Kool-Aid but do not want to be attacked for driving a FORD just because of someone else's bad experience. Right now I have my eye on two trucks-a 2008 Ford F350 and a 2007 Dodge 3500. I really like the Dodge (and it would be my first). At this point I have great difficulty on buying a Ford 6.4 diesel since my Sick.0 experience. No hesitation on a Cummins diesel-ever. My wife prefers the Ford because the Dodge is Quad Cab and not Mega. My family rides with me occasionally-all 5 of us and none of us are, well, height challenged.

They all make lemons, FORD and Dodge included. My 6.0 was a lemon to me-and it remains firmly etched in my brain cells. Well, Cheverolet has been making watered down lemonade for years.:rolleyes:

Yep, Happy New Year to all (and God bless us everyone.)

nosparkplugs
01-02-2009, 12:05 AM
Can you explain the intent of your post? Was it an attack against FORD owners? What Kool-Aide are you referring to? Seriously what was the point of the first paragraph?

Do some searching on Lawnsite? you will then see the Wolf pack style attacks on anyone whom may questions a Fords bulletproof(kool-aide) or reliability factor or owns a GM or Dodge product and is happy.

I had an 02 F-350 7.3L dually buy 40,000 miles the 4R100 was trashed, multiple cam position sensors, at 45,000 miles constant HEUI injector trouble, add that to poor dealer service trying to leave me with the warranty work cost BS.

International copied the HEUI unit injector from Caterpillar for the 7.3L; which is one of the main reasons Caterpillar will be done with onroad/highway diesel engine production.




Not directed towards you, but the "Veteran Lawnsite Hierarchy":laugh:

Bottom line no truck or diesel engine is bulletproof, the fact many Ford owners cannot take any debating or criticism, but sure dish it out is typical of Lawnsite

Sorry if your think this is a personal poke at you

The Elements Group
01-02-2009, 12:14 AM
We use to run the 7.3 great truck and very strong. Until I drove a DODGE @%)) LWB $ DR $WD CUMMINS. out pulls and 20 mpg empty and 17 towing. Plus they are 6 cyl which is a little cheaper on insurance . The inline 6 is easier to work on and since ford is usuing twin turbos now they are more problems than they are woth. have to lift the whole cab off the chasis to get to the turbo. So with this in mind , try driving a Dodge 2500 or 3500 lwb you will be surprised and possibly converted . I know we were . Best of luck

The Elements Group
01-02-2009, 12:14 AM
2500 4wd 4 dr

jefftb
01-02-2009, 12:17 AM
Sorry about the crap you went through on the 7.3. That really surprises me.
I can see your experience leaving that bitter after taste. Had I not already had a good relationship with the 7.3 then I would have left Ford if all I could look around and see were more 6.0 trucks. At 2002 that's all you could do was see more 7.3's.

The only thing that makes me pause on the Dodge is everything around the motor. One of my project superintendent's (diehard Ford HD) jokes that if buy a Dodge then the cummins motor will arrive intact to the jobsite, its the rest of the truck that will be left behind on the side of the road.:hammerhead:

TXNSLighting
01-02-2009, 12:37 AM
We use to run the 7.3 great truck and very strong. Until I drove a DODGE @%)) LWB $ DR $WD CUMMINS. out pulls and 20 mpg empty and 17 towing. Plus they are 6 cyl which is a little cheaper on insurance . The inline 6 is easier to work on and since ford is usuing twin turbos now they are more problems than they are woth. have to lift the whole cab off the chasis to get to the turbo. So with this in mind , try driving a Dodge 2500 or 3500 lwb you will be surprised and possibly converted . I know we were . Best of luck

Proof read...

Jerry Lee
01-02-2009, 12:39 AM
and 20 mpg empty and 17 towing. Plus they are 6 cyl which is a little cheaper on insurance . The inline 6 is easier to work on and since ford is usuing twin turbos now they are more problems than they are woth. have to lift the whole cab off the chasis to get to the turbo. So with this in mind , try driving a Dodge 2500 or 3500 lwb you will be surprised and possibly converted . I know we were . Best of luck

thats all your getting. i went 300 miles yesterday and at 65 in our 08 cummins i was getting 24, with only 4200 miles on it. i kept resetting the mileage indicator in disbelief but it kept coming back 24.:clapping::)

TXNSLighting
01-02-2009, 12:41 AM
thats all your getting. i went 300 miles yesterday and at 65 in our 08 cummins i was getting 24, with only 4200 miles on it. i kept resetting the mileage indicator in disbelief but it kept coming back 24.:clapping::)

Not bad. Have you posted pics of this truck yet? Hand calculate that mileage as well.

nosparkplugs
01-02-2009, 12:45 AM
Sorry about the crap you went through on the 7.3. That really surprises me.
I can see your experience leaving that bitter after taste. Had I not already had a good relationship with the 7.3 then I would have left Ford if all I could look around and see were more 6.0 trucks. At 2002 that's all you could do was see more 7.3's.

The only thing that makes me pause on the Dodge is everything around the motor. One of my project superintendent's (diehard Ford HD) jokes that if buy a Dodge then the cummins motor will arrive intact to the jobsite, its the rest of the truck that will be left behind on the side of the road.:hammerhead:


I would have went with Dodge Cummins instead of the 02 Ford 7.3L, but at the time I had a business partner whom was a diehard Ford guy beat me up about it:hammerhead::laugh:, and personally I wanted the Ford to work too, I could really give a rats what I'm running once I'm "tot'in the note":laugh:. It's all the research you do before the purchase. My gut told me the inline Cummins was better. Here I am happy

The 7.3L is a great modern diesels before that I was running the old gm 6.2 & 6.5 diesels. The 7.3L Powerstroke was a like a Cummins for me at first:laugh:

90% of diesel trouble is owner or self inflicted

Jerry Lee
01-02-2009, 12:56 AM
Not bad. Have you posted pics of this truck yet? Hand calculate that mileage as well.

well our, i mean the work truck, but i drive it all the time. its not mine tho i failed to mention that. yea i doubt the 24 mpg but like i said it kept coming back with the same thing. i hope to get my own cummins this year. after driving the 6.7 i dont really care for the 5.9, and 6.7 debate. il take what ever i can get

UrbanGreen
01-02-2009, 01:07 AM
Had an 04' dodge, great engine but by 30k the rear end and transmission were gone and again not long after. It could have just been mine but my dad had the same truck as me and he had the same problems at 35-40k. The cummins ENGINE is probably the best one out there but thats it. As for the new trucks I dont care for any of them especially the Ford.

CrystalCreek
01-02-2009, 09:32 AM
Had an 04' dodge, great engine but by 30k the rear end and transmission were gone and again not long after. It could have just been mine but my dad had the same truck as me and he had the same problems at 35-40k. The cummins ENGINE is probably the best one out there but thats it. As for the new trucks I dont care for any of them especially the Ford.

It's a shame what some of these truck builders are thinking. I mean how really needs sequential turbos on a pickup. These engines have been so overly complicated that no one without an ASE certification can work on them. And even then you need a complete set a tools, a truck and body lift and a NASA computer. I wish I could find a 98 cummins, but the trucks are totally trashed by now. Maybe Nosparkplugs will sell me his.:laugh:
This is the problem with the big three. They keep pushing the envelope further and further, all while losing sight of the trucks reliability. My friends still cant believe I would buy a truck without power windows and all those other goodies. I live by the KISS method. Keep It Simple, Stupid. I feel really sorry for people that buy these $45000 trucks only to have them fail and leave them stranded.
I still love my big red ford, but the amount of work that I put into the engine just to make it reliable, I could have bought a spare Walker for the business. But on a personal note, It is one of the most powerful ford roaming Bergen County:weightlifter::weightlifter::weightlifter:

TXNSLighting
01-02-2009, 11:56 AM
It's a shame what some of these truck builders are thinking. I mean how really needs sequential turbos on a pickup. These engines have been so overly complicated that no one without an ASE certification can work on them. And even then you need a complete set a tools, a truck and body lift and a NASA computer. I wish I could find a 98 cummins, but the trucks are totally trashed by now. Maybe Nosparkplugs will sell me his.:laugh:
This is the problem with the big three. They keep pushing the envelope further and further, all while losing sight of the trucks reliability. My friends still cant believe I would buy a truck without power windows and all those other goodies. I live by the KISS method. Keep It Simple, Stupid. I feel really sorry for people that buy these $45000 trucks only to have them fail and leave them stranded.
I still love my big red ford, but the amount of work that I put into the engine just to make it reliable, I could have bought a spare Walker for the business. But on a personal note, It is one of the most powerful ford roaming Bergen County:weightlifter::weightlifter::weightlifter:

Why have you not posted pics of this truck?

I completely agree. But its not Ford making these engines the way they are. Its the EPA's rules. To make all this emission crap work on these they have to increase this, make this more complicated and so on and so on. Way back when Diesels weren't on the radar this stuff wasn't an issue, They are now cuz theyre such power houses, and people realized this and just made them faster and faster.

So the epa started to take notice and think o no! Look at all that black smoke. It must be harmful to the environment! Idiots. Its their fault. I hate them.

WH401
01-02-2009, 12:07 PM
thats all your getting. i went 300 miles yesterday and at 65 in our 08 cummins i was getting 24, with only 4200 miles on it. i kept resetting the mileage indicator in disbelief but it kept coming back 24.:clapping::)

You can never trust the overheads in these trucks, only hand calc. Mine is consistently off by 2 mpg and I have never seen one that is accurate.

nosparkplugs
01-02-2009, 02:06 PM
Had an 04' dodge, great engine but by 30k the rear end and transmission were gone and again not long after. It could have just been mine but my dad had the same truck as me and he had the same problems at 35-40k. The cummins ENGINE is probably the best one out there but thats it. As for the new trucks I dont care for any of them especially the Ford.

My 02 F-350 7.3L 4R100 went out before 40,000 miles towing??
My 47RE is slowly going out with 79,000 miles still towing & driving it too, I've got about $4,000 in parts in my shop, 1,750lb/ft Triple clutch billet TC, high performance friction & steel module Raybestos Gen2 Blue Plate special frictions Kolene Steels, going to have direct drum frictions in the forward drum. going through the VB, TFOD VB reprogrammer/shift kit, billet triple seal actuator. 5 to 1 billet band lever, brass impregnated carbon fiber forward drum band the list goes on:dizzy:

At the OEM level Cost is the number 1 factor to not going with top of the line parts, most of us already complain about the price of these trucks, engines, transmissions etc. Access the aftermarket diesel part industry for answers their products don't equal a 4.4 billion dollar industry for nothing!

The point is every truck I have owned has eaten transmissions, the Cummins is a million mile diesel engine that tears everything up behind it:laugh:. I agree, but the A518/618 47RE/48RE transmission case dose well behind the Cummins, I have gotten better life out of my Dodge transmissions than any Ford or GM truck transmission(not allison1000) I have owned.

These diesels EAT OEM transmissions; why? because OEM's are limited buy cost in building these units. Once you get the old soft & hard parts out of your Ford, Dodge, GM slushbox you can make then bulletproof. With many miles of towing & hauling. manuals are good options, but very rare finds in 2Gen trucks, those have issues; because there is no slipping, so you either going to eat clutch's or break spline shafts in the box. Their is just no right answer or wrong answer.

If folks would just swap the OEM rear differential cover out for a high capacity aftermarket cover you will greatly reduce the rear ring gear heat; which increases rear end life.

I run the PML 7 quart rear DANA 80 diff cover I use AMSOIL severe gear 75w-140. I have zero problems with a "hot rear":laugh:




http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/nosparkplugs71/PML7QUART.jpg
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/nosparkplugs71/reardiff.jpg

nosparkplugs
01-02-2009, 02:40 PM
Here's a link to fixing the 6.0 EGR problem

EGR delete kit for 6.0
http://www.liberatorperformance.net/

Jerry Lee
01-02-2009, 02:57 PM
If folks would just swap the OEM rear differential cover out for a high capacity aftermarket cover you will greatly reduce the rear ring gear heat; which increases rear end life.

I run the PML 7 quart rear DANA 80 diff cover I use AMSOIL severe gear 75w-140. I have zero problems with a "hot rear":laugh:




http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/nosparkplugs71/PML7QUART.jpg
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/nosparkplugs71/reardiff.jpg


how much larger is that diffy cover than stock? and wat did u pay and how much a of a temp. difference does it really make?

nosparkplugs
01-02-2009, 03:14 PM
I now got 7 quarts stock is 3 quarts so 4 quarts over. PML covers start at $200.00 for sand cast thats what I have. The cover 3 ports 2 for fluid levels, and one SAE/ NPT port for a temp gauge probe. If you use a good synthetic severe gear lubricant you can see up to 200 degree's reduction. Here's my acid test, with the stock cover when I would tow the Kubota M6800 the rear diff cover was boiling hot to even touch, now I can leave my hand on the cover for a extended period of time. I does get hot, but not boiling hot.

I have the PML deep transmission pan cover too.

Jerry Lee
01-02-2009, 03:37 PM
I now got 7 quarts stock is 3 quarts so 4 quarts over. PML covers start at $200.00 for sand cast thats what I have. The cover 3 ports 2 for fluid levels, and one SAE/ NPT port for a temp gauge probe. If you use a good synthetic severe gear lubricant you can see up to 200 degree's reduction. Here's my acid test, with the stock cover when I would tow the Kubota M6800 the rear diff cover was boiling hot to even touch, now I can leave my hand on the cover for a extended period of time. I does get hot, but not boiling hot.

I have the PML deep transmission pan cover too.

wow. 7 quarts.. i didnt think it was gonna help that much, but il take ur word for it. for towing heavy loads sounds like a good upgrade as not to have ur rear end grenade on u.

Gravel Rat
01-02-2009, 03:49 PM
More oil you have the cooler it runs but if your rear axle is so hot you can't put your hand on it there is something wrong with the gear set up.

The Dana 80 used in the P/U trucks isn't the heavy version that was used in the old Ford F-Superduty trucks. They were rated at 11,000lbs and had heavier axle tubes and a heavy center section.

I'am pretty sure the P/u trucks with the Dana 80 have the 11 inch ring gear but have the Dana 70 axle tubes and 60 hubs.

Oh by the way when you had a F-550 with the 135 Dana it holds like 14 quarts of oil.

nosparkplugs
01-02-2009, 04:02 PM
wow. 7 quarts.. i didnt think it was gonna help that much, but il take ur word for it. for towing heavy loads sounds like a good upgrade as not to have ur rear end grenade on u.


The OEM diff covers are going towards the deeper side now, just look? Like I have said their is plenty of aftermaket products to help you extend the life of your diesel. Dealers are trying to tap into the money lost in the aftermarket diesel industry. Many dealers are now just sending new stock diesel trucks over to aftermarket performance diesel companies to perform these improvements, so the dealer can add that into you note.

The problem is were bombarded with so many aftermarket gadgets, we tend to dismiss the ones that truly work. Diesels are not for everyone their are two class's of owners 1.) warranty addicts? who leave them bone stock, and be the dealers little $$$ hoe, crying but it's under warranty each time you visit. 2.) The diesel gearhead's who goes against the grain, tackles the fundamental OEM specific problems, voids their warranty:confused: and has years of trouble free use. to be forever persecuted buy Lawnsite members:laugh: You will pay? Now or Later applies.

UrbanGreen
01-02-2009, 05:23 PM
nosparkplugs,
or anyone else, do you know how well the new or some of the older dodges pull. I know they have tons of power but with my 04' the problem and what I couldn't stand was the automatic transmission never new what gear to be in. It would drop gears and rev till I thought it was going to blow and then jump gears again and feel like it was going to stall on me or something. Very frustrating when pulling.

CrystalCreek
01-02-2009, 05:49 PM
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/nosparkplugs71/PML7QUART.jpg[/IMG]
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/nosparkplugs71/reardiff.jpg

Wow! you really do have a hot rear:laugh::laugh::laugh: NSP is right one with this one. Heat is the killer of so many engines and transmissions. For people running the Ford superduty line with the SRW applications, you can upgrade the rear diff cover very cheaply. The new 2008 superduties us an all aluminun diff cover with cooling fins built in. It cost about $45. You will need to also buy the longer bolt kit. I did this on my rig and it dropped my temps about 150*. That will make your hot rear not so hot. It will not add to your capacity, but cooler temps will make your oil last longer.

CrystalCreek
01-02-2009, 05:57 PM
The 4R100 was a pretty impressive piece of poop. It hated living behind the T444E. To much power. However, with the new 6.0 came the 5R100. A much better design and much stronger transmission. The newer design will handle much higher HP and TQ. I know mine has held up very well. The only trick is regualor fluid changes and a deep trans fluid pan. I have never seen my fluid temp rise over 150. Even in the height of summer with a trailer in tow. Like NSP said, fix the problem before it is a problem.

CrystalCreek
01-02-2009, 06:02 PM
Why have you not posted pics of this truck?

I completely agree. But its not Ford making these engines the way they are. Its the EPA's rules. To make all this emission crap work on these they have to increase this, make this more complicated and so on and so on. Way back when Diesels weren't on the radar this stuff wasn't an issue, They are now cuz theyre such power houses, and people realized this and just made them faster and faster.

So the epa started to take notice and think o no! Look at all that black smoke. It must be harmful to the environment! Idiots. Its their fault. I hate them.

I havent posted pics because I still cant get it to work:cry: I have tried so many times but I still can't do it. I sent an e mail to a buddy and hopefully he can help me. I have so many pics to post. Hopefully soon. I takes me and my one brain cell a long time to figure these things out;)

nosparkplugs
01-02-2009, 06:06 PM
nosparkplugs,
or anyone else, do you know how well the new or some of the older dodges pull. I know they have tons of power but with my 04' the problem and what I couldn't stand was the automatic transmission never new what gear to be in. It would drop gears and rev till I thought it was going to blow and then jump gears again and feel like it was going to stall on me or something. Very frustrating when pulling.



OEM cut's cost with the TC a Stock Cummins single disk TC cheap, and will self destruct quickly or start the dreaded "shuttering" under accelration or heavy towing sometimes out of the box.

The constant "searching" for gears in the 04 48RE is the Torque convert & stock VB, the stock OEM 47RE/48RE rated for stock cummins torque, always on the low side too:laugh: 47RE/48RE is always on the edge of destruction behind the Cummins all it takes is a air intake & new exhaust? your well over 500lbft of torque:laugh::cry:. The 47RE/48RE fix's are well documented, and can reached for a fraction of the cost with some simple pricing & leg work yourself. get involved in your truck, you save money
The main problem is with the stock torque converters & VB line pressure: get a VB TFOD diesel reprogrammer shift kit $180.00 minimal. A transmission shop can drop the valve body or if your "good" do it yourself lots of ball bearings in the VB to keep track off:dizzy:

Or you can order a complete ATS OR B&D valve body for $500-$1,000 upgrade



OEM could build this level of a A518/618 dodge 47RE/48RE I would purchase it, but someone would complain about the cost at the dealership:cry:. Factory is always budget strapped on these items

jefftb
01-02-2009, 06:25 PM
OEM could build this level of a A518/618 dodge 47RE/48RE I would purchase it, but someone would complain about the cost at the dealership:cry:. Factory is always budget strapped on these items


Makes me wish the Big 3 could offer a la carte pricing on upgraded options at purchase time. We all know that they build trucks to the majority of users demands or duty cycles. However, there are a lot of owners that use their trucks in excess of the majority (I know we do). Don't you wish they could offer you a heavier transmission option, rear-end, or tranny cooler direct from the factory?

Tell me what it costs to have that transmission upgraded to a seriously heavy duty please. After market products improve on the original item, why? Are they better engineers? Nope, they just know what it costs to make the product better and then they make it knowing the market will be there.

I know, I know, manufacturer's can't do that since it would "seem" they are putting an inferior heavy duty product into the market at the conventional price but our trucks are pushed to the limit 5 days (sometimes 6 days) a week. I believe other members here are in the same category.

It bugs me to see a heavy duty truck from the Big 3 today being used to tow a 5th wheel RV 10 times a year with the owner thinking, wow! this is great truck its really up to the task. Yeah, 4,000 miles of heavy duty towing/hauling-that's some duty cycle ya' got there.

Off the rant box now.:waving:

nosparkplugs
01-02-2009, 07:17 PM
Makes me wish the Big 3 could offer a la carte pricing on upgraded options at purchase time. We all know that they build trucks to the majority of users demands or duty cycles. However, there are a lot of owners that use their trucks in excess of the majority (I know we do). Don't you wish they could offer you a heavier transmission option, rear-end, or tranny cooler direct from the factory?

Tell me what it costs to have that transmission upgraded to a seriously heavy duty please. After market products improve on the original item, why? Are they better engineers? Nope, they just know what it costs to make the product better and then they make it knowing the market will be there.

I know, I know, manufacturer's can't do that since it would "seem" they are putting an inferior heavy duty product into the market at the conventional price but our trucks are pushed to the limit 5 days (sometimes 6 days) a week. I believe other members here are in the same category.

It bugs me to see a heavy duty truck from the Big 3 today being used to tow a 5th wheel RV 10 times a year with the owner thinking, wow! this is great truck its really up to the task. Yeah, 4,000 miles of heavy duty towing/hauling-that's some duty cycle ya' got there.

Off the rant box now.:waving:

We should just step up to the $$$ plate, and dish out the over 50K for one of these new 4500/5500 Ford/Dodge/GM trucks and be DONE:laugh:. I know my limits, and right now I'm not positioned to truly need all the "extra's" that come along with the next level of truck class. I would have to sleep in it, cause I would be divorced :laugh:

For the money nothing works harder than our trucks

jefftb
01-02-2009, 08:58 PM
We should just step up to the $$$ plate, and dish out the over 50K for one of these new 4500/5500 Ford/Dodge/GM trucks and be DONE:laugh:. I know my limits, and right now I'm not positioned to truly need all the "extra's" that come along with the next level of truck class. I would have to sleep in it, cause I would be divorced :laugh:

For the money nothing works harder than our trucks

Then I think on the pure spec and perception basis I'll take the Dodge please. Looking at it on paper I think Dodge makes the most improvement in the 4500/5500 category of Dodge, Ford, & GM.

On a side note, what the heck happened to this thread? We are far afield of the OP topic.:walking::laugh:

UrbanGreen
01-02-2009, 09:31 PM
yes it is, but there was still some good info

nosparkplugs
01-02-2009, 10:05 PM
Then I think on the pure spec and perception basis I'll take the Dodge please. Looking at it on paper I think Dodge makes the most improvement in the 4500/5500 category of Dodge, Ford, & GM.

On a side note, what the heck happened to this thread? We are far afield of the OP topic.:walking::laugh:

I agree Cummins has the diesel, and the new 6 speed 68RE is sweet
The wait for the 4500/5500 Dodge series has been long overdue?? It has something to do with the 1979 Dodge government bailout concession's

Imagine a Cummins & Allison 1000 hook up:clapping: that would be a truck body war, highest bidder wins. The bootleggers just cannot get the Cummins & allison transmission to communicate yet. Some guys have came close, even made running trucks their just not stable enough yet. Allison is like the Iphone & AT&T, just will not dilute their name for all to use.

jefftb
01-02-2009, 10:26 PM
Moving into the 4500/5500 on the Dodge do you not move from the 68RE into the Aisin product? That's the bigger step up in transmission. While the 68RE has been thus far a good product its still not in the Aisin category. Aisin's end up in medium duty products do they not?

My problem with the Allison 1000 (as most know it) is that its an Allison in name only with GM spec'ing the parts in it. This is not to say that Allison is risking their brand on the GM cash flow stream. They still are going to establish some minimum standards on the final product for reliability issues.

Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Did ya' have to hit me in the iPhone/AT&T belt line? I'm a Apple guy (entire business runs on Apple computers) and love the iPhone but despise AT&T at the end of the day. Gawd, why could Apple not have just made the thing available w/o a subsidy?

WH401
01-02-2009, 10:29 PM
Moving into the 4500/5500 on the Dodge do you not move from the 68RE into the Aisin product? That's the bigger step up in transmission. While the 68RE has been thus far a good product its still not in the Aisin category. Aisin's end up in medium duty products do they not?

My problem with the Allison 1000 (as most know it) is that its an Allison in name only with GM spec'ing the parts in it. This is not to say that Allison is risking their brand on the GM cash flow stream. They still are going to establish some minimum standards on the final product for reliability issues.

Correct me if I'm wrong here.

You are correct. The Aisin is only available in the Dodge 3500, 4500, and 5500 C&C trucks. The 68re only goes behind the regular 2500 & 3500 trucks, and it's built by Orion. One of the reason's they don't put the Aisin in the regular trucks is because being that it is a medium duty trans, it has a higher turning mass than the 68re. The higher the turning mass, the slower the acceleration. For the C&C trucks this isn't so much of a problem as most of them are bought for constant heavy load use and not the 1/4 mile. On a regular consumer truck though, slower acceleration turns people off. Not all potential buyers, but most.

Gravel Rat
01-02-2009, 11:17 PM
There is a big difference between a 3500 Dodge and a 4500 Dodge. The driveline in the 4500-5500 is considerably bigger. The 19.5 wheels are heavier mass to turn.

jefftb
01-02-2009, 11:20 PM
You are correct. The Aisin is only available in the Dodge 3500, 4500, and 5500 C&C trucks. The 68re only goes behind the regular 2500 & 3500 trucks, and it's built by Orion. One of the reason's they don't put the Aisin in the regular trucks is because being that it is a medium duty trans, it has a higher turning mass than the 68re. The higher the turning mass, the slower the acceleration. For the C&C trucks this isn't so much of a problem as most of them are bought for constant heavy load use and not the 1/4 mile. On a regular consumer truck though, slower acceleration turns people off. Not all potential buyers, but most.

Last time I tried a performance run in the quarter mile I was in junior high and it was part of our "training" for the Presidents Physical Fitness Test.:weightlifter:

Glenn Lawn Care
01-03-2009, 07:55 PM
the 7.3 is the way to go. i own one and love it. the 03 to early 05 6.0l had some prolems. 06 and 07 6 liters are good, i know i used to be a machanic before i got into lawn care.

Gravel Rat
01-03-2009, 08:07 PM
The only way your going to get a decent truck is build one. Find a truck from the southern states that is rust free and clean it up. If the engine needs replacing replace it. The 99 to 2003 7.3 powered trucks are hard to find.

Ferdelance
01-03-2009, 08:39 PM
Why have you not posted pics of this truck?

I completely agree. But its not Ford making these engines the way they are. Its the EPA's rules. To make all this emission crap work on these they have to increase this, make this more complicated and so on and so on. Way back when Diesels weren't on the radar this stuff wasn't an issue, They are now cuz theyre such power houses, and people realized this and just made them faster and faster.

So the epa started to take notice and think o no! Look at all that black smoke. It must be harmful to the environment! Idiots. Its their fault. I hate them.

I could not agree more.

talus
01-04-2009, 01:08 AM
The 7.3 was known to be more reliable. However that was a day before programmers really caught on. Yes, 6.0's HAD their troubles. Most of the troubles were stated in earlier posts. The two most important things you can do(especially for the o3-04's) is the ARP studs and keeping the egr clean. I do not think it needs to be deleted. Clean it on a regular basis. The 7.3 would idle all day long. If you let the 6.0 idle for long periods keep an eye on egr. The 4r100/E4od is a good tranny if taken care of. In stock form put a bigger pan on it.syn oil and bigger cooler. Dirt and heat is the enemy. When I had my 7.3 tranny done I got one from Suncoast. I also put in a billet tourque converter. They built the tranny with more clutches so I could tow in OD. I had a shift kit in it and was built for heavy towing. Everyone raves about Allison trans.They are great. However if you run even the mildest programmer they don't respond well to them. I am a Ford guy.no doubt. If Dodge made the mega cab in a long bed I may have bought one. THE PROBLEMS THAT INTERNATIONAL AND FORD HAVE ARE DUE TO THE STUPID FORD ENGINEERS. INTERNATIONAL KNOWS HOW TO MAKE AN ENGINE. FORD PUT THEIR .02 IN AND COST BOTH PARTIES MILLIONS. BAAAHHHHH.

talus
01-04-2009, 01:18 AM
I will also say that if anyone is looking for a diesel truck,buy one in the next two years. Pretty much evryone says new diesels suck. I agree for the most part. Modifications can still be made to the new ones for them to run right with minimal modifications. This will change in the near future I guarantee. I should have bought a pre emission if I has the $.

genesis215
01-04-2009, 11:10 PM
I have a '95 7.3L, and it is awesomely reliable. It has very slow acceleration, but BOY does it have torque to hold it's speed right up hills without even downshifting. What I have heard is that the 6.0L is good '06 and after, but still not the durability and reliability level of the 7.3L. The 7.3L Powerstroke is one of the two best diesels ever made, second only to the 12-valve Cummins. They are the two most bulletproof diesels. I have heard of 7.3's at 1 million miles and still going. If you keep the oil changed before it turns dark, and use uncontaminated fuel, they will be great. Mine has 147,000 miles, and the oil is as clear as it was when it came out of the bottle after 2000 miles, no black in it at all.

nosparkplugs
01-04-2009, 11:22 PM
I have a '95 7.3L, and it is awesomely reliable. It has very slow acceleration, but BOY does it have torque to hold it's speed right up hills without even downshifting. What I have heard is that the 6.0L is good '06 and after, but still not the durability and reliability level of the 7.3L. The 7.3L Powerstroke is one of the two best diesels ever made, second only to the 12-valve Cummins. They are the two most bulletproof diesels. I have heard of 7.3's at 1 million miles and still going. If you keep the oil changed before it turns dark, and use uncontaminated fuel, they will be great. Mine has 147,000 miles, and the oil is as clear as it was when it came out of the bottle after 2000 miles, no black in it at all.

Not picking on you personally, many folks use the visual "dirty oil" on the dipstick check, and mileage as the golden standard for oil change intervals. Next to lubrication, one of oils main jobs is to suspend harmful contaminates, acids, fuel, soot, and dirt to name a few. If your engine oil is staying clean to long; especially in a diesel engine the contaminates stated above are left in your engine as sludge. So remember that next time you brag about how long your oil is staying clear.

brandon9996
01-05-2009, 02:18 PM
Hey listen i bought my cousins 05 6.0 crew cab Fx4 for my farm truck to work out of and i really like it, it has 36,240 miles on it and i got a banks chip in it, i pulled a load of scrap metal off last week with 14,630 lbs on the trailer and it took off like a bat out of hell, Before i bought my 08 6.4 F-250 last april i had an 05 6.0 Harley Davidson with a 8 inch lift 22 inch wheels and a banks 6 gun tuner with all aftermarket engine components, i never had any trouble with the 6.0 i really like those trucks. 7.3's are getting harder to find with low miles now days and its going to be hard to find one that will last a while without giving u alot of trouble, once they done been through the shop they'll be back in it cuz one part gives the other will soon, the way i see it so 6.0 is going to last you longer with no mechanical problems if you find a good one.

brandon9996
01-05-2009, 02:24 PM
Why have you not posted pics of this truck?

I completely agree. But its not Ford making these engines the way they are. Its the EPA's rules. To make all this emission crap work on these they have to increase this, make this more complicated and so on and so on. Way back when Diesels weren't on the radar this stuff wasn't an issue, They are now cuz theyre such power houses, and people realized this and just made them faster and faster.

So the epa started to take notice and think o no! Look at all that black smoke. It must be harmful to the environment! Idiots. Its their fault. I hate them.


I know how to get rid of all that epa bullshit haha but u gotta void warranty and spend a lil money but its all good in the end with black smoke rolling and white smoke from the burnout lol

TXNSLighting
01-05-2009, 02:46 PM
I know how to get rid of all that epa bullshit haha but u gotta void warranty and spend a lil money but its all good in the end with black smoke rolling and white smoke from the burnout lol

:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:

It does cost some money! But hey who needs a warranty!:dizzy:

Gravel Rat
01-05-2009, 06:39 PM
It doesn't matter what brand of diesel P/U they all cost you money when they break.