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nosparkplugs
01-02-2009, 08:31 PM
At this point it looks like GM will be the first on the scene early 2010 with a 1/2 ton diesel. Dodge is positioned next in line mid 2010. Ford will introduce last no date?, as a diesel F-150 would mean less profit from diesel Super Dutys and gasoline F-150's

All the diesel engines will have a few things in common for example, similar displacement (GM 4.5L, Dodge 5.0L and Ford 4.4L) and V8 cylinder arrangements. Another thing they all share is a liquid urea emissions system known as selective catalytic reduction (SCR). Both Ford and GM use compacted graphite iron to strengthen their engine blocks, and reduce weight.
The Cummins and Duramax engines both mount their single variable geometry turbo in the engine valley as to increase emission performance and simplify design. Ford, on the other hand, installed twin turbo chargers. All diesel equipped trucks will come loaded with high end premium packages, four doors, and six speed automatic transmissions. Customers shopping for a stripped down work truck will need to look elsewhere.:cry:

GM Executive director says "quote"
25% better "normal fuel economy" vs comparable gas model

GM uses "under work condition"
GM is touting 70% better fuel economy vs its comparable gas model under working conditions:dizzy: so the extra cost of the Diesel 1/2 ton "premium package" might be worth it.

Cummins is tight lipped on their little diesel. Reports are saying 24.6MPG towing heavy loads

The Dodge Cummins 1/ton will offer the largest rear end 10 1/2" ring gear semi floating AAM rear axle similar to the larger 3/4 ton trucks. GM will offer 9 1/2" ring gear semi floating axle. Ford 9 3/4" ring gear seven lug wheels similar to the semi floating rear axle of 7700 series F-250


Ford is pleading the fifth, and is is not releasing much in reports. Possible 20% better fuel economy than a 5.4L gas engine

stuvecorp
01-02-2009, 09:27 PM
I was reading that today and it's about time. BUT, what I am afraid of is they will jack the price up so much it wont really make sense compared to a 3/4 ton. I am hopeful about some of the mileage claims. With some voodoo, could we see some legit 30 mpg trucks?

By the way, Ford is an idiot for not getting the truck out there.

nosparkplugs
01-02-2009, 09:49 PM
I was reading that today and it's about time. BUT, what I am afraid of is they will jack the price up so much it wont really make sense compared to a 3/4 ton. I am hopeful about some of the mileage claims. With some voodoo, could we see some legit 30 mpg trucks?

By the way, Ford is an idiot for not getting the truck out there.


Ford has two issue it's their own or first diesel, their done with international, and Ford is stating the 1/2 ton diesel will directly compete with it's Superduty diesel sales.:dizzy:

The auto companies know their per say? "slicing their own throats" with these diesels.

Consumers will have the final say, and all three are highly profitable in the Euro diesel market. Overall these diesels will require less maintenance, higher cost maintenance, but less You add that to these huge gains in power torque & MPG, scratch the hybrid trucks & cars :laugh: Also these diesels will currently fit in all the SUV's midsize & luxury passenger cars with no or only minimal changes. The Duramax 4.5L will be the new premium Cadillac engine option soon with the wick turned up might I add over 450hp:cool2: more:clapping: 510lbft while getting 35mpg

jefftb
01-02-2009, 10:14 PM
That F150 has been creeping up for awhile into the base F250 category for towing but not hauling. I have a 2007 F150 CC 5.4 in my truck ownership fleet (along with a 97 F250 460 and the F350).

I'd expect the F150 to get a bump in the next 2-3 years on payload and the F250 to disappear. Ford used to have the bast*** light duty 150/250 product before the new body styles.

I think at this point you may well see the specs differentiate between the F350 and 450/550 in the engine/transmission category unlike today.

I for one would embrace the diesel F150 and would look to it as the crew truck of choice with one or two heavy duty trucks hauling/towing the light/medium duty excavators and track machines. The diesel F150 could fill a significant hole in the Ford product line.

Looking at it today you have to spend the same amount on the F250 with diesel as the F350 diesel but the only difference is the payload in an SRW product. Towing is the same. Fundamentally there is no difference in those products.

IMO, make the diesel F150 the entry (again, that a la carte pricing option model with a heavier duty option list), do away with the F250 and make the F350 the starting of the HD category. Then you really differentiate between the product lines.

stuvecorp
01-02-2009, 10:20 PM
Ford has two issue it's their own or first diesel, their done with international, and Ford is stating the 1/2 ton diesel will directly compete with it's Superduty diesel sales.:dizzy:

The auto companies know their per say? "slicing their own throats" with these diesels.

Consumers will have the final say, and all three are highly profitable in the Euro diesel market. Overall these diesels will require less maintenance, higher cost maintenance, but less You add that to these huge gains in power torque & MPG, scratch the hybrid trucks & cars :laugh: Also these diesels will currently fit in all the SUV's midsize & luxury passenger cars with no or only minimal changes. The Duramax 4.5L will be the new premium Cadillac engine option soon with the wick turned up might I add over 450hp:cool2: more:clapping: 510lbft while getting 35mpg

It is so lame that the auto companies have cars(Euro) that could have helped lesson this nonsense of high fuel prices. I think the auto companies should tell the oil companies to suck it and give us the most fuel efficient vehicles. I don't know how much a smaller diesel truck would rob sales, isn't it two different markets?

Also, why should we have to keep paying 'extra' for the diesels?

jefftb
01-02-2009, 10:33 PM
FYI, for those of you that wonder why diesel is more expensive in the US and why the US may lag behind in diesel adoption, check this story out. It goes back a little in time but provides fairly good primer on the US Diesel production issues and our costs. Trust me, despite it being a C&D article there is good information in there.....Click the link.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/columns/c_d_staff/csaba_csere_the_steering_column/should_american_vehicles_go_diesel_just_when_the_world_is_running_short_of_it_column

stuvecorp
01-02-2009, 10:35 PM
That F150 has been creeping up for awhile into the base F250 category for towing but not hauling. I have a 2007 F150 CC 5.4 in my truck ownership fleet (along with a 97 F250 460 and the F350).

I'd expect the F150 to get a bump in the next 2-3 years on payload and the F250 to disappear. Ford used to have the bast*** light duty 150/250 product before the new body styles.

I think at this point you may well see the specs differentiate between the F350 and 450/550 in the engine/transmission category unlike today.

I for one would embrace the diesel F150 and would look to it as the crew truck of choice with one or two heavy duty trucks hauling/towing the light/medium duty excavators and track machines. The diesel F150 could fill a significant hole in the Ford product line.

Looking at it today you have to spend the same amount on the F250 with diesel as the F350 diesel but the only difference is the payload in an SRW product. Towing is the same. Fundamentally there is no difference in those products.

IMO, make the diesel F150 the entry (again, that a la carte pricing option model with a heavier duty option list), do away with the F250 and make the F350 the starting of the HD category. Then you really differentiate between the product lines.

I see how it could pull sales from Jeff's point. For me I see the goal of getting more fuel efficient trucks to help curb our countries consumption of fuel as a goal we all should be on board.

stuvecorp
01-02-2009, 10:47 PM
FYI, for those of you that wonder why diesel is more expensive in the US and why the US may lag behind in diesel adoption, check this story out. It goes back a little in time but provides fairly good primer on the US Diesel production issues and our costs. Trust me, despite it being a C&D article there is good information in there.....Click the link.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/columns/c_d_staff/csaba_csere_the_steering_column/should_american_vehicles_go_diesel_just_when_the_world_is_running_short_of_it_column

That's interesting. How much does it help with diesels getting better mileage? Or we can throw the biodiesel wildcard, would that help at all?

jefftb
01-02-2009, 10:49 PM
I see how it could pull sales from Jeff's point. For me I see the goal of getting more fuel efficient trucks to help curb our countries consumption of fuel as a goal we all should be on board.

That's why I see it as a good crew truck under my scenario described above. We spend an awful lot on fuel with our 250/350's running down the road with 2-3-4 crew members in them. A lot of those days the trucks do not haul/tow anything that a diesel F150 could not. If that truck could get 25+ MPG then I could balance our truck purchases based on necessity and deliverables instead of saying today, "oh well, we need this F250 just because the diesel is available in it".

The US needs more lighter duty diesels available in the commercial market to meet that fuel efficiency target.

jefftb
01-02-2009, 10:54 PM
That's interesting. How much does it help with diesels getting better mileage? Or we can throw the biodiesel wildcard, would that help at all?

I get chapped with the Biodiesel option. It should be cheaper since the resources are cheaper and are relatively easier to come by. However, in my area I only have two sources of BD-the farmers co-op and a private marketer.

The co-op is remote from me and the private marketer puts B5 blend on the market at a higher price point than straight diesel. They are trading at a premium on the higher sulfur concentration of the B5 blend. Yep, my 2003 F350 runs better on it than ULSD but c'mon.

YMMV in your markets on BD.

nosparkplugs
01-02-2009, 10:54 PM
FYI, for those of you that wonder why diesel is more expensive in the US and why the US may lag behind in diesel adoption, check this story out. It goes back a little in time but provides fairly good primer on the US Diesel production issues and our costs. Trust me, despite it being a C&D article there is good information in there.....Click the link.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/columns/c_d_staff/csaba_csere_the_steering_column/should_american_vehicles_go_diesel_just_when_the_world_is_running_short_of_it_column

Very good Point of view; however I agree, and disagree. The world is already running on diesel:laugh: keeping diesel engines & fuel expensive will ensure its continued use.

cpel2004
01-02-2009, 11:09 PM
Yeah boys, get ready for some serious sticker shock 35k+ range, I betcha.

CrystalCreek
01-02-2009, 11:54 PM
At this point it looks like GM will be the first on the scene early 2010 with a 1/2 ton diesel. Dodge is positioned next in line mid 2010. Ford will introduce last no date?, as a diesel F-150 would mean less profit from diesel Super Dutys and gasoline F-150's

All the diesel engines will have a few things in common for example, similar displacement (GM 4.5L, Dodge 5.0L and Ford 4.4L) and V8 cylinder arrangements. Another thing they all share is a liquid urea emissions system known as selective catalytic reduction (SCR). Both Ford and GM use compacted graphite iron to strengthen their engine blocks, and reduce weight.
The Cummins and Duramax engines both mount their single variable geometry turbo in the engine valley as to increase emission performance and simplify design. Ford, on the other hand, installed twin turbo chargers. All diesel equipped trucks will come loaded with high end premium packages, four doors, and six speed automatic transmissions. Customers shopping for a stripped down work truck will need to look elsewhere.:cry:

GM Executive director says "quote"
25% better "normal fuel economy" vs comparable gas model

GM uses "under work condition"
GM is touting 70% better fuel economy vs its comparable gas model under working conditions:dizzy: so the extra cost of the Diesel 1/2 ton "premium package" might be worth it.

Cummins is tight lipped on their little diesel. Reports are saying 24.6MPG towing heavy loads

The Dodge Cummins 1/ton will offer the largest rear end 10 1/2" ring gear semi floating AAM rear axle similar to the larger 3/4 ton trucks. GM will offer 9 1/2" ring gear semi floating axle. Ford 9 3/4" ring gear seven lug wheels similar to the semi floating rear axle of 7700 series F-250


Ford is pleading the fifth, and is is not releasing much in reports. Possible 20% better fuel economy than a 5.4L gas engine

Oh Glorious day! I knew that NoSparkPlugs was human! Ford doesn't use twin turbos on their engines. They are sequential. It is a very common misconception. The turbos are 46MM and 62MM, If I remember correctly.
One a serious note. I personally would like to thank people like NoSpark Plugs. He has obviously done a ton of research and presents the information in a very well layed out manner. I may try to bust you BA__S sometimes, but it is out of fun. I have a good understanding about ford products, but I really enjoy coming here and learning about other manufactures products. Thanks again, even if you are only human:laugh::laugh::laugh:

TXNSLighting
01-03-2009, 01:08 AM
Yeah boys, get ready for some serious sticker shock 35k+ range, I betcha.

you havent looked at trucks in a while huh?

cpel2004
01-03-2009, 02:11 AM
Nope I certainly haven't looked at any new trucks, I only buy used. 2003 f 350 6.0 70k, 1996 c3500 29k, 1996 f250 98k and a 08 BMW 5 series demo. I dont plan on buying anything new in the near future either. If I cant pay for it cash, then I don't buy it. How about you Tex?

CrystalCreek
01-03-2009, 08:48 AM
Nope I certainly haven't looked at any new trucks, I only buy used. 2003 f 350 6.0 70k, 1996 c3500 29k, 1996 f250 98k and a 08 BMW 5 series demo. I dont plan on buying anything new in the near future either. If I cant pay for it cash, then I don't buy it. How about you Tex?

These are some words to live by. Not the buying trucks part, but the not buying it unless you have the cash to for it. When I purchase things for my business, it is on the credit card, with the cash sitting in the bank to back it up. People living on extended credit is why the country is in such a mess. Now back to the original topic.

Green Pastures
01-03-2009, 10:06 AM
If I cant pay for it cash, then I don't buy it.


Excellent words to live by.

JMLandscaping
01-03-2009, 03:22 PM
It would be good if they had a single cab 8ft bed, 5 or 6 speed MANUAL 2 or 4wd basic, no floor mats, fancy seats. Just a plain ol American WORK TRUCK the WORKING MAN can afford!!

Tim03
01-03-2009, 04:18 PM
you havent looked at trucks in a while huh?

There was a car show at the downtown convention center in Indianapolis this week.

They had the new model loaded 4 door F-150 there. As I walked upto it, I guessed the sticker priced would be in the high 30s, with it tipping $40K with tax and other silly dealer charges added on.

That puppy had a $48K sticker on it. I don't care how loaded it is, its a gas F150 and they want almost $50K for it!!!

Just before leaving a ran across a Chevy 4 door Colorado. glancing over it the truck was nicely equipted but didnt appeared to be loaded to the max.
This truck doesn't sell well (At least not around Indianapolis) and doesn't get good reviews in the magazines.

The price? $29K!!! I had to take a second look and saw that the rumored V8 was in it. If I remember correctly its a 5.3L at around 280 or so HP.

The way things are going a truck is going to cost as much as my house.

South Florida Lawns
01-03-2009, 06:35 PM
Well I hope that GM does better with their diesel than the old 350 small block diesel they had back in the day.

I know Dodge won't use the 4 cyl cummins because that thing still weighs like 1100 lbs.

IA_James
01-03-2009, 06:44 PM
I know Dodge won't use the 4 cyl cummins because that thing still weighs like 1100 lbs.

The 4BT is an excellent motor, but kinda chubby for this application.:)

South Florida Lawns
01-03-2009, 07:16 PM
The 4BT is an excellent motor, but kinda chubby for this application.:)

yeah my friend has one and was going to put it in his jeep.

TXNSLighting
01-03-2009, 07:23 PM
Thats why they developed a V8 Cummins.

stuvecorp
01-03-2009, 07:56 PM
It would be good if they had a single cab 8ft bed, 5 or 6 speed MANUAL 2 or 4wd basic, no floor mats, fancy seats. Just a plain ol American WORK TRUCK the WORKING MAN can afford!!

No way, I want the creature comforts.

JMLandscaping
01-03-2009, 09:33 PM
No way, I want the creature comforts.

the options are nice if you can afford them but it is almost impossible to find a truck you can work with. Yea it can pull 10k lbs but who want to sit in leather seats all muddy and full of dirt etc

W.L.M.
01-11-2009, 10:43 PM
So if they get 30 out of the box they will get 50 when we strip the emissions controls off :weightlifter:

stuvecorp
01-11-2009, 10:47 PM
So if they get 30 out of the box they will get 50 when we strip the emissions controls off :weightlifter:

I like that thought.:drinkup: