Starting out Advise

[Hookset]

I just can't get over the number of people starting a lawn buisness with out any experence or knowledge. This is my seventh year and I have learned more from this site in the last three months than I've learned my entire six years. I've heard people say, "Anyone can cut grass." If that were the case I wouldn't have so much trouble finding help. I noticed one guy went out bought a mower with a 72" deck and a echo 650 back pack blower. He has no clients, just got tired of office work and decided he would cut grass. First of all where will you put that 72" deck, secondly what will you use that big blower for. You can throw the money into the business if you want but your headed for failure. This is dirty, hard, hot, back-breaking work to start with. You can't even make a dent without breaking your back a little. If you make it to the point you don't have to break your back, then the real headaches start, scheduling and employee problems. You better gain the experence, and really love the work, I mean really love the work before you jump with both feet. Odds are you will be asked a question by a home owner that you can't answer and if can't you better know where to find it or you will end up looking like a fool and trying to find another client. TO ALL THOSE STARTING OUT GOOD LUCK. AND IF YOU LOVE THE WORK JOIN THE CROWD. Sorry for the long post.

[stslawncare]

yes there are a lot of people starting out and i think its great, however i agree some people are getting ahead of themselves. good luck to everyone

[grebwv]

Hi Hookset,

Loved the advice. Guess from my perspective, the back breaking work part is what turns most people off. I agree with you.

I am going at it from another route. Selling, managing and finances. I have hired someone that will be running the crew. I am focusing in on building a business, not a job.

IMHO, I have had jobs. I don't want another. What I want is a machine. One that I control, but not one that I work in. I am focusing on building the business, not on doing the manual aspects.

Yes, this will get me flamed. And I mean no disrespect to people. It has been my experience in life that a lot of people work on being the chef, even after they open their own restaruant, and not on building the rest of the business.

And I know that you have to deliver a quality product. And you have to know what that product is about. But unless you get in there and start, you will never know if you could have had your own company or not.

So, I woke up one day and went for it. I'll either crash and burn, or grow this to the image I have in my mind (and on paper).

Thanks!

William

[Mykster]

In my area it was hard trying to get hired on with a LCO unless you already got 2yr. min. experience. I tried right out of high school with no luck. Seems they just don't want to take the time to train that person. So how are you suppose to get the experience if they won't give it to you. How many of you would actually hire someone with no experience what so ever? With past jobs I've had there have been things at every job I wanted to learn(running heavy equipment etc.)but noone would train me. So I trained myself and it worked out great. If nobody will give you experinece you have to make it yourself. Trial by fire. I also agree that people get ahead of of themselves, I know I did when I first started. IMHO I also think that everybody that goes into business for themselves bites off a little to much when they first start, or they think am I doing the right thing? Hope everyone does well.

[sheppard]

Morning Hookset,

Different strokes for different folks. I wanted to get into this business BECAUSE of the back braking work- sat at a desk for too many years- also sat in the car way too long. Was not tired at the end of the day and was getting fatter by the month.

At he end of my first year in this business I've met my revenue goals, almost met my diversification spread (commercial to residential) and am picking up my ztr this week.

Now I sleep better than I can ever remember, am building a business to pass on to my son, and vaving more fun that a 46 y/o man should expect to have.

I've made it an inviolate goal to be on site on all the jobs my Co. does (either full time or to do the QC). Still plan on having fun. Why? Because this work beats the hell out of selling software for a large company any day of the week!!!

Cordially,
Sheppard

[TGMC]

Well said, Sheppard!

[brucec32]

No offense intended, but I couldn't disagree more with your philosophy on getting into this business. Why? Well, first of all, there are much more lucrative businesses to be in if you want to be a traditional businessman, concentrating on sales, accounting, etc, etc...the business end.

Also, It'd be difficult in reality to hire someone to manage the day to day stuff. If they were any good, they'd probably be out on their own or working for a more established business.

Again, no offense, I'm one of em in a way , but generally you're going to find a more stimulating and interesting and stable work force in some other field. There aren't many "career" lawn care employees. One great part of having employees is working with them. I just think working with 28 y/o secretaries in an office might be preferable to working with 18 y/o former fast food workers and immigrants. No offense to those who are starting out, I once worked for someone else (about 3 months was all it took to surpass his knowledge) , but let's be realistic. You're not going to find stellar work ethic in many of your staff. You're going to have constant turnover and deal with lots more problems. Just be prepared.

The financial reality required to allow you to sit back selling and developing while others manage and do the work means you'll have to be big. Very big. Margins aren't high. You'll run big losses for a while until you reach breakeven. You'll need about $12,000+ per crew to equip them well. And you may need 4 or 5 crews to make a living, minimum. And today's economy isn't the best time to start up in landscaping, especially when tons of established, experienced landscapers aren't busy with new work and are looking to do maintenance to fill in. How do you expect to offer a competitive advantage?

Finally, unless you get in the trenches and learn by doing, you will never really know how to bid accurately on jobs, you will never know just how much work really can be done in a day, and hence how efficient your crews really are. You also won't learn the little nuances about how landscapes are.

I was a small business/entreprenuership major in college. They couldn't stress enough to us that it's tough out there unless you find the proper niche, and a basic rule of economics is that there is only one "pie" of profits in each field, and eventually so many people join that field that the "pie" slice you get is pretty thin. It's better to find a niche that isn't being filled and take advantage of that. I just don't think going for big commercial is the way to approach it. When builders and property managers are getting half a dozen bids already, I don't see how they need another one.

[brucec32]

I think a lot of people would hire the "RIGHT" inexperienced person for the job. The problem is they've probably been burned a lot by guys who show up, draw a week's pay, then vanish, and produce almost nothing. I've had guys take a job, seem enthusiastic, then never show up for the job at all. I've also had people just quit and never bother to pick up a last paycheck.

I suggest that anyone who wants a job bad enough approach a company and suggest that they agree to work for minimum wage for a month, and only if they last past that do they collect the amount over minimum for those weeks. This way you're taking the risk, not the business owner.

I would pay another "me" $30,000 a year to start. It'd be a bargain. I wouldn't pay a lot of guys out there $10,000. The key is to show that you're a $30K guy, not a $10K one.

There's almost always a creative way around things if you way it bad enough.

[goodbeus]

Originally posted by grebwv
Hi Hookset,

Loved the advice. Guess from my perspective, the back breaking work part is what turns most people off. I agree with you.

I am going at it from another route. Selling, managing and finances. I have hired someone that will be running the crew. I am focusing in on building a business, not a job.

IMHO, I have had jobs. I don't want another. What I want is a machine. One that I control, but not one that I work in. I am focusing on building the business, not on doing the manual aspects.

Yes, this will get me flamed. And I mean no disrespect to people. It has been my experience in life that a lot of people work on being the chef, even after they open their own restaruant, and not on building the rest of the business.

And I know that you have to deliver a quality product. And you have to know what that product is about. But unless you get in there and start, you will never know if you could have had your own company or not.

So, I woke up one day and went for it. I'll either crash and burn, or grow this to the image I have in my mind (and on paper).

Thanks!


I prefer hiring people with no experience...every guy I worked that had worked previously with other companies, I had to retrain and it's so hard to get them to break old habits....with no experience guys, I don't have that problem...quite a few have used my company for a reference and got hired just right there....quite a few company's know I train my guys well...

William

[Hookset]

How can you properly train an employee for a job if you have no experence? If a lot of the ideas presented here work, then most of us maybe sitting on the unemployment line in a couple years or have to work with a franchise lawn company for half of what we now earn. Frankly I work for myself that's why I'm in the buisness.
There are a lot of successful lawn companies out there who are down sizeing simple because it is more profitable to them.
Just how big can you get and expect to keep satisfied customers?

[goodbeus]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hookset
[B]How can you properly train an employee for a job if you have no experence?

You can't train if you have no experience...kinda like the blind leading the blind...I've been doing lawn care for 15 years, so I have the experience and other jobs I worked at I did a lot of training...I now combine all my experiences to train new guys, I'm able to know what they're thinking while in training and I inform them if they have questions, just ask....oh, and it takes a lot of PATIENCE....

[Commander]

I would like to interject something here. It's great if you know all about business, that's a granted. However if you know nothing at all about horticulture you are going to lose the business to your employees. I have heard many a story about employees knowing more than the bosses and the employees being given the job by the customer. For example, you bid a job to install a 5M sq ft Agrostis palustris lawn (customer's request) but you aren't installing drainage, irrigation, or even the right growing medium. One of your employees says to the customer "this isnt going to work because..." you may fire the employee, however that customer is most likely going to hire that employee to do the job right.

[grebwv]

Just for clarification, I did not state that I preferred to hire unskilled workers. That was someones reply to my post. I just appears in the body of the text for my name.

Also, there is a lot to learn about this industry. No arguement. However, the main reason I keep getting bids is not for my strength in horticulture, but the fact that I have presented myself as a professional.

That is something I can teach. Just showing up when asked to, and performing the work as stated, is the reason people keep buying.

As for the fact there are other, more traditional businesses, with higher margins, is true. However, the start up costs for one of those business is beyond my budget. This fit, and so far, I have generated over 12K worth of work from one flyer. My crew is out working, and I am still working the bids.

I may be bust by the end of the year, but so far, my numbers seem to be working...

Thanks for the help!

William