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ProLawns
01-04-2009, 05:21 PM
I've applied pre-emergent on some of my long term customers for over ten years now every spring and haven't seen any crabgrass. I'm contemplating not doing a pre-em app this season on those lawns. If those lawns have crabgrass seeds that haven't germinated because of the years of pre-em will they germinate now or have they lost their potency?

LushGreenLawn
01-04-2009, 07:40 PM
If it were me I would go ahead and apply. Seeds come from all over, wind and birds are big contributors, as well as Lawn Mowers going from Lawn to Lawn if they don't mow their own grass.

If you risk it, and have a breakthrough on all those accounts, then you are going to be spraying expensive post emergent chemicals for control.

Its really not that much more to spread a fert with a crabgrass pre-emergent than it is to spread fert without it.

Out of curiosity, what chemical do you use?

DLAWNS
01-04-2009, 09:15 PM
I've applied pre-emergent on some of my long term customers for over ten years now every spring and haven't seen any crabgrass. I'm contemplating not doing a pre-em app this season on those lawns. If those lawns have crabgrass seeds that haven't germinated because of the years of pre-em will they germinate now or have they lost their potency?

I agree with Lushgreenlawn. I would go ahead and apply.

mngrassguy
01-04-2009, 11:29 PM
It all depends on how well trained your customers are. If they understand the basic principals of IPM, you could cut back on pre-treating for weeds and using post controls. BUT....most won't understand and will drop you like a hot potato because they will think you aren't doing your job.

Keep in mind, pre's control a lot more than just crabgrass.

ted putnam
01-05-2009, 08:39 AM
Keep in mind, pre's control a lot more than just crabgrass.

You hit the nail on the head! :clapping:

I don't know about other areas of the country but with our warm, humid, rainy environment I wouldn't dare skip applying a pre-emergent. I feel that by applying a pre-emergent properly, you are furthering IPM through prevention. JMO

ProLawns
01-05-2009, 02:29 PM
Thanks for your input guys. I'll take your advice. I wasn't thinking about all the other annual weeds that it blocks. On the chemical that I use; for years I used two apps of pre-em but last year I did one app of Barricade. I'll probably use the Barricade again this year.

garydale
01-06-2009, 08:53 AM
Thanks for your input guys. I'll take your advice. I wasn't thinking about all the other annual weeds that it blocks. On the chemical that I use; for years I used two apps of pre-em but last year I did one app of Barricade. I'll probably use the Barricade again this year.

Prolawn,
A couple of quick questions on Barricade.
Is it yellow staining like Pre-M?
Do you do split appl. with Barricade?

I am concidering replacing my split appl. of Dimension with one appl. of Barricade. Any thoughts on that change would be appreciated.

Turfdoctor1
01-06-2009, 09:39 AM
It all depends on how well trained your customers are. If they understand the basic principals of IPM, you could cut back on pre-treating for weeds and using post controls. BUT....most won't understand and will drop you like a hot potato because they will think you aren't doing your job.

Keep in mind, pre's control a lot more than just crabgrass.

my experiences is very, very poor control of broadleaf weeds, annual bluegrass, etc., with Barricade. IMO, it's pretty much good for crabgrass, foxtail, and other large annual grassy weeds (even pretty poor on goosegrass).

What other annual weeds do you have good luck controlling with pre's? And, do these pre's include Barricade?

ted putnam
01-06-2009, 09:59 AM
my experiences is very, very poor control of broadleaf weeds, annual bluegrass, etc., with Barricade. IMO, it's pretty much good for crabgrass, foxtail, and other large annual grassy weeds (even pretty poor on goosegrass).

What other annual weeds do you have good luck controlling with pre's? And, do these pre's include Barricade?

Turfdoc. Last year was the first year I've ever used prodiamine for my pre-emerg. I noticed there were broadleaf weeds that broke through that I never had a problem with when using pendimethalin(what I always used in the past). I was actually concerned about it and was considering going back. It's true, by reading the label, obviously the spectrum of broadleaf control is less with prodiamine. Cost is comparable between the 2. The smell and mess factor came in to play for me. Prodiamine is so much better to work with in those areas. Some of the breakthroughs I attributed to the 22.5 inches of rain we got between March 1 and April 15. I'm going to give it a shot again this year and hopefully we'll have a "normal" yearand I'll be able to better judge. I still wouldn't skip using some type of pre-emerg. JMO

ProLawns
01-06-2009, 03:13 PM
Just thought i'd save a few bucks by skipping but it's probably not worth the chance. Barricade doesn't stain and you can adjust the length of control by the amount you apply (app rates are on the label). So for one time apps it works better for crabgrass. I can't say if it's better for broad leaf control I haven't experimented enough but if the label says it doesn't control as many then it probably doesn't. I seem to have more issues with winter annuals than summer. I guess the spring pre-emergents are helping.

AmGreen
01-06-2009, 04:02 PM
Prolawn,
A couple of quick questions on Barricade.
Is it yellow staining like Pre-M?
Do you do split appl. with Barricade?

I am concidering replacing my split appl. of Dimension with one appl. of Barricade. Any thoughts on that change would be appreciated.

I used barricade for the first time last year and loved it. I was virtually spot treating weeds through the summer last year with one application late winter early spring.

turfsurfer
01-06-2009, 08:14 PM
Garydale, Not sure what your weather is like where you're at but the consensus around here is you are still better off doing one Dimension application at the higher rate than a split app of lower rates. We go for the .25 lb ai per acre rate. I'm actually thinking of going the Echelon 4 route this year because nutsedge is getting so bad around me. I have no prior experience with Prodiamine.

Victor
01-07-2009, 12:14 AM
Garydale, Not sure what your weather is like where you're at but the consensus around here is you are still better off doing one Dimension application at the higher rate than a split app of lower rates. We go for the .25 lb ai per acre rate. I'm actually thinking of going the Echelon 4 route this year because nutsedge is getting so bad around me. I have no prior experience with Prodiamine.

The thing that I don't like about Echelon 4 Rob, is the reseeding interval that comes along with it. The reseeding interval for it is 3, to 12 months. The long reseeding interval of Prodiamine is the main reason I don't use it. All it takes is a hot, dry Summer and you're screwed. I've been down that road before and it's not a good place to be. There's nothing like selling seed jobs, that don't come up, even though the customer gives the seed all the proper care. That's a hard one to explain.

Another reason I don't use Prodiamine is because I get better control out of Dimension. I do use a split-apps though. That seems to improve it's efficacy for me.