Substituting gravel for crushed limestone: recipe for disaster?

[SiteSolutions]

Where I live, crushed limestone is cheap. I am pretty familiar with it and how to make a driveway with it in various conditions. I've got a buddy with some land down in mid Mississippi where the dirt is different and the limestone costs more than twice what it costs around here, since they have to truck it in from Alabama.

River gravel is cheaper down there than it is here, nearly as cheap as I can get limestone for here.

I need to make a driveway for this guy, and it has to support moderate truck traffic... the driveway is for a big shop. The trucks shouldn't be loaded very often, but empty road tractors will be on it every day.

So, does anybody have experience with limestone versus gravel and is there anything to watch out for? I am thinking of a sub base of 3" minus clean gravel topped with 3/4" minus crushed river gravel.

Thanks

[Marcos]

Where I live, crushed limestone is cheap. I am pretty familiar with it and how to make a driveway with it in various conditions. I've got a buddy with some land down in mid Mississippi where the dirt is different and the limestone costs more than twice what it costs around here, since they have to truck it in from Alabama.

River gravel is cheaper down there than it is here, nearly as cheap as I can get limestone for here.

I need to make a driveway for this guy, and it has to support moderate truck traffic... the driveway is for a big shop. The trucks shouldn't be loaded very often, but empty road tractors will be on it every day.

So, does anybody have experience with limestone versus gravel and is there anything to watch out for? I am thinking of a sub base of 3" minus clean gravel topped with 3/4" minus crushed river gravel.

Thanks

No!
You'll want 'chips & dust' for a good driveway, period.
Round grades of gravel will only get spun out and thrown into the ditches by vehicles tires, and it moves around MUCH, MUCH more easily in storm and erosion situations.

[SiteSolutions]

The local aggregate dealer sells a crushed river gravel, which has fractured sharp edges like crushed limestone so it won't move (as much)... that may be "chips and dust?" They sell several grades, from 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1"... I figured the 3/4 minus would make a good topping. I wonder if I should pour portland cement over top of it and mix it in? But a 500' drive 15' wide is going to use up a lot of any material.

I can get pug mix down there, for $33 a ton delivered.:cry:

Crushed river gravel is $19/ton delivered, much closer to what I pay for crusher run around here. (about $16/ton delivered here)

[stuvecorp]

Does that crushed gravel have any binder or fines in it?

[Gravel Rat]

Crushed limestone is soft we can't get it here it all goes for making portland cement. Crushed riverstone is used in eastern canada you get alot of round rock.

The river rock will be stronger than the limestone your used to. As for using for the finished surface the 3/4 would be fine so would the 3/8s minus. I wouldn't put portland cement over the driveway.

[White Gardens]

I think what everyone is trying to say is that you want a good base of what we call CA-6 crushed gravel. It's a white rock with all the "fines" and small material along with a 3/4 - 1.5 inch white rock. CA-11 is the CA-6 without all the fines.

Same material used for paver patios, and the base for Retaining walls.

Then compact it.

With large trucks driving on it, you'll want to make sure it's packed well. and will hold up with the traffic.

[YellowDogSVC]

No!
You'll want 'chips & dust' for a good driveway, period.
Round grades of gravel will only get spun out and thrown into the ditches by vehicles tires, and it moves around MUCH, MUCH more easily in storm and erosion situations.

down here the river gravel is cheaper too. When it gets crushed or whether it is just left whole, it is round and easily spun out and kicked out.
You want crushed limestone, fines, mediums, and coarse to "lock in" when you compact it.

[SiteSolutions]

The crushed gravel offered has fines in it but no cementious lime or other binder. It should stay in place but won't have a nice concrete style finish like the pug mix I can get here.

To be clear, the crushed product would be the topping. The big rocks would be laid down first, what they sell as "clean oversize", to help stabilize the weird dirt they have here.

The owner or lessee may decide to top with asphalt or concrete at some point down the road, but that is beyond the scope of this project.

I know limestone would be ideal for this but it is twice as expensive and would probably kill the project if I bid it that way.

[YellowDogSVC]

The local aggregate dealer sells a crushed river gravel, which has fractured sharp edges like crushed limestone so it won't move (as much)... that may be "chips and dust?" They sell several grades, from 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1"... I figured the 3/4 minus would make a good topping. I wonder if I should pour portland cement over top of it and mix it in? But a 500' drive 15' wide is going to use up a lot of any material.

I can get pug mix down there, for $33 a ton delivered.:cry:

Crushed river gravel is $19/ton delivered, much closer to what I pay for crusher run around here. (about $16/ton delivered here)

that sounds better. It's amazing how many names that stuff here. Down here it's #1 or #2 base or about 3 different grades of pure gravel. River rock is frowned on by most guys I know but it's available. If it is crushed good, though, I don't see a problem with it though it does seem to be "harder" than regular limestone as GR pointed out. Not sure what type of rock ends up in rivers but it definitely lasts longer than crushed limestone and doesn't break as much under the compactor.

[SiteSolutions]

down here the river gravel is cheaper too. When it gets crushed or whether it is just left whole, it is round and easily spun out and kicked out.
You want crushed limestone, fines, mediums, and coarse to "lock in" when you compact it.

Do you think the 3/8-minus crushed river gravel would stay put better than 3/4-minus?

[White Gardens]

Sounds like your 3/4 to 3/8 river stone is actually Pea Gravel.

[SiteSolutions]

Sounds like your 3/4 to 3/8 river stone is actually Pea Gravel.

It's not pea gravel. It's not 3/4 to 3/8. It is crushed gravel, which means they take bigger river gravel and crush it, then grade it by screening it. The 3/4 minus product means that the product contains crushed pieces up to 3/4 of an inch down to dust. 3/8 minus is a different product, made the same way but with the largest size being 3/8 of an inch, down to fines/dust.

[Gravel Rat]

The 3/8s minus will give you a cleaner surface than 3/4 road mulch. The only thing with 3/8s minus you have to wet it down and pack it in.

For a basic driveway 3/4 road mulch is good enough. Like I said I don't have any experience with limestone only with crushed granite. In different areas it comes in different colors from brown,black,grey to almost steel blue. The grey and black granite packs like concrete.

The reason why the limestone binds together so well its soft and sticky so it binds together.

[SiteSolutions]

The 3/8s minus will give you a cleaner surface than 3/4 road mulch. The only thing with 3/8s minus you have to wet it down and pack it in.

For a basic driveway 3/4 road mulch is good enough. Like I said I don't have any experience with limestone only with crushed granite. In different areas it comes in different colors from brown,black,grey to almost steel blue. The grey and black granite packs like concrete.

The reason why the limestone binds together so well its soft and sticky so it binds together.

These are brown smooth gravel that come out of a river bed (before being CRUSHED). Don't know what they're made of but I think they are harder than limestone. Right now, everything is wet so the 3/8 shouldn't be a problem. This drive has to support truck traffic so I want it to be sturdy, not too worried about pretty.

[Construct'O]

More and more people here are using fabric before putting down the rock.Here with the freezing and thawing the rock seem to deappear when spring hits and the frost goes out of the ground.

Even the best compacted base here doesn't hold up the best when spring comes.

I know you don't have the frost problem ,but the fabric does keep the rock from disappearing.It isn't cheap tho !I think the rock you plan on using sounds okay. :usflag:Good luck.

[RockSet N' Grade]

We had gravel driveways here at my ranch when we moved in. I dug every spec of it out and gave it to a neighbor. We have a product around here called road base that once layed out and compacted is hard as a rock. When it freezes, you can actually run a snow blower or blade over it to clear snow off.......that will never happen if you just use a gravel. Call the local supplier and ask them what they use/call it to achieve those results. Sometimes the cheaper material up front is the most expensive material in the long run......for a drive with any kind of traffic, gravel just does not cut it....

[treemover]

Well here is my 2 cents. At our shop(keep in mind we have a very good base) we use pea gravel about 3/8 to 1/2 smooth edge river rock. In my area it is actually more expensive than limestone, but it is much more durable. We all the heavy truck traffic we have the limestone was only lasting eight months and the river rock is still around after 13 months and a very wet year.

Now if you are doing a new drive with truck traffic i wouldnt recommend it. Yon need something to break down and pack like limestone. We do a lot of driveways and we have found something that work great...it is "wash out or scatter) it is what redi mixes have left over after they wash out there drums. It is free in my area and once it tries it is as hard as concrete but very dusty so we usually top dress it with limestone or road gravel sand.

One more thing to look into is re-ground asphalt.

Sorry for the long post!!

[Construct'O]

This is for someone else use,maybe someday.The railroad went bye,bye here and i bought back the rightway with the ballast still there.It was hard granite like GR was talking about.

I reclaimed all that i could and was worried about getting all the coal cinders with the rock.But that was a good deal.When i used it around my shop i thought the cinders was going to be a joke for base.

It was just what i needed to hold the big granite base rock in place.The cinders settled down around the rock the first time it rained and it was like a paved road when done.

That is until i took my dozer in the lot and turned around or run across it.:) But all you had to do was harrow it down and the first rain it was just like new again.That has been close to 15 years ago and still doesn't do to bad conciding the dozer traffic:hammerhead:.:usflag:

[ksss]

Whats a Lime stone?

Everything here is 3/4 crushed roadbase. There is also just 3/4 crush without fines but that is not used for driveways as stated it does not bind. The roadbase has 3/4 fractured rock with fines. It is used in everything, from concrete prep, asphalt prep and gravel driveway. We lay it out, water down and compact it. Works great. The key to a good driveway is making sure the sub base is good. We use pitrun about 6-8" minus, roll and compact then top with 4" of road base.

[YellowDogSVC]

Do you think the 3/8-minus crushed river gravel would stay put better than 3/4-minus?

I like 3/4 as my absolute smallest base. It is often too small if you don't get a good mix of rock to fines. The river gravel can get gritty if there was a lot of sand in it. Sand doesn't lock up as well as the limestone dust in my experience.
If you have big trucks, go with a 1.5"-2" crushed rock if available for the sub base


Down here, water is hard to come by for roads. If the base isn't damp when we lay it our to compact, it makes compaction more of a challenge but a vibratory roller will help compensate. Water is just a lubricant but if you don't have water available, the vibratory roller is a necessity. If the road is compacted well, the rocks shouldn't roll too much under the weight of the big trucks. The key is keeping traffic to a minimum during the first wet/dry cycle so the base will "shrink" up a little. Of course, if you can water the road, you can skip that step since it will shrink by the time you are done compacting a wet road.

I'm starting to think we made a bigger deal out of this than the question asked. We all have an opinion!

[YellowDogSVC]

These are brown smooth gravel that come out of a river bed (before being CRUSHED). Don't know what they're made of but I think they are harder than limestone. Right now, everything is wet so the 3/8 shouldn't be a problem. This drive has to support truck traffic so I want it to be sturdy, not too worried about pretty.

may have some flint rock. Does it look like rootbeer on the inside of the rocks? that would be hard rock. GR's granite is harder and thus holds up good with 3/4". Flint rock could do the same. Limestone will break up rubbing against other limestone during compaction and over time with heavy trucks quicker than flint or granite.

[Gravel Rat]

All dirt roads settle it doesn't matter how well its compacted. If the native dirt/ground is mushy as a bowl of porridge then your going to need a good layer of shot rock or reclaimed concrete to stiffen up the trampoline. It is just a driveway not a freeway build it to the best of your ability with the material available.

[SiteSolutions]

Did a little more research. They also sell something they call "clay gravel", which is red dirt with gravel in it. This stuff is only $4 a ton so I can use a little of it in the road, along with some big rocks and after compacting it I can top it with a couple inches of reclaimed asphalt for a good hard topping. That's the only way to keep it under ten grand.