PDA

View Full Version : Accurate spray pattern


DA Quality Lawn & YS
01-06-2009, 06:12 PM
Elementary question - but I am a rookie at the application side of things so I am asking...

How do you guys 'see' where you have already applied herbicide (like 3 way) when spraying a lawn? I see Trugreen with their trucks and hoses and it looks like they are just randomly covering the lawn. I want more accuracy than that. Is there an organic 'tint' or something like that so you can see where in the heck you have already covered? Just curious.

americanlawn
01-06-2009, 07:11 PM
Several things...1) often you can see where the grass is wet from your previous pass, 2) always overlap, 3) follow mowing patterns to see where you're at, or 4) look for your previous footprints, or 5) use "landmarks" like a tree, a fencepost, a dog turd, whatever -- in order to walk/spray in a straight line.

It's just like spray painting a car or anything else .......even coverage, but not too much.

Initial spray training: 1) String toilet paper along shrubs to see if you're getting overspray (it will show up quickly). 2) Put an aluminum can (Miller Lite works best:laugh:) on the lawn in front of you. Your spray should hit the can at least 3 times for good weed coverage. 3) Finally, the old "spray-on-the-concrete" is a no brainer.

It may look like TruGreen is just randomly spraying, but this can be deceiving.

My short answer. I know others have more advice. :usflag: Probably better than mine.



How do you guys 'see' where you have already applied herbicide (like 3 way) when spraying a lawn? I see Trugreen with their trucks and hoses and it looks like they are just randomly covering the lawn. I want more accuracy than that. Is there an organic 'tint' or something like that so you can see where in the heck you have already covered? Just curious.[/QUOTE]

NEW CITY LAWN CARE LLC
01-06-2009, 07:30 PM
Most people use that Turf color additive, you just add some of the blue stuff to your mix so you can see where your applying it. I think its called Turf Tracker or something like that?

SpreadNSpray
01-06-2009, 08:01 PM
Elementary question - but I am a rookie at the application side of things so I am asking...

How do you guys 'see' where you have already applied herbicide (like 3 way) when spraying a lawn? I see Trugreen with their trucks and hoses and it looks like they are just randomly covering the lawn. I want more accuracy than that. Is there an organic 'tint' or something like that so you can see where in the heck you have already covered? Just curious.


This is a good question.

I agree with most of what American said. Except the can thing. It should be Michelob golden light, and you don't need to hit it 3 times with a boom or TeeJet Turbo floods.

Most suppliers sell a die you can add to the tank. But you will look like a smurf when your done.

That random pattern you see from some Trugreen tech might be that person spot treating weeds with a double hose and dual trigger gun.

Hissing Cobra
01-06-2009, 08:29 PM
When I used to spray, I would pull the hose to the farthest point from the truck and start there. On my first pass, I would look at a reference point directly in front of me and keep my eyes moving from that point to the points I was trying to cover. After your first pass, stop and look back to where you had already sprayed and you'll see that your hose is in a straight line where your feet were walking. On the next pass, I'd spray either right to the hose or 12 inches away from the hose. On each subsequent pass, your hose should pretty much be in a straight line. Also, if the grass is growing good and your hose is a mess, you may see your footprints as well.

azjojo99
01-07-2009, 10:18 AM
Practice, fill the tank with water and do your own lawn and your neighboors.

As stated above, the hose will follow the last 1/2 of your pass.

Pick a landmark(fence post, tree, window...) before you start walking and walk toward it. It also helps, to pick a landmark for your return pass before you start off (ie look behind you and pick a landmark for the next pass). After ~10 lawns, it becomes 2nd nature.

Pay attention to how you turn at the end of the pass, otherwise your hose will be in knots. If you turn to your left on the first pass, make sure you turn to your right the next time. At first you will be messing up the hose a lot since you are concentrating on where to walk.

Also, it is easier to see your tracks when the sun is lower in the morning or afternoon. (a nice heavy dew really helps!) Avoid high noon when practicing your technique.

Joe

DUSTYCEDAR
01-07-2009, 10:25 AM
ON MY really big places i just stick some marking flags in the lawn
any thing can be used for reference

rcreech
01-07-2009, 10:53 AM
I have been in the lawn health business for 5 years and never pulled a hose (Thank God), but that alwasy did worry me!

Getting an accurate spray pattern for weed control is important, but doesn't show up other then maybe a missed weed.


But when applying fert, that is what would concern me! That is one reason I never wanted to pull a hose, other then not wanting to walk lawns due to laziness :laugh:, and I don't like liquid fert at all.

Do you guys ever have any issues with application when using liquid fert?

ted putnam
01-07-2009, 11:22 AM
I have been in the lawn health business for 5 years and never pulled a hose (Thank God), but that alwasy did worry me!

Getting an accurate spray pattern for weed control is important, but doesn't show up other then maybe a missed weed.


But when applying fert, that is what would concern me! That is one reason I never wanted to pull a hose, other then not wanting to walk lawns due to laziness :laugh:, and I don't like liquid fert at all.

Do you guys ever have any issues with application when using liquid fert?

I've never had a problem with the application itself. My problem has always been getting slow release N and getting it at a reasonable price. UFLEXX has answered that for me.

FdLLawnMan
01-07-2009, 12:10 PM
I've never had a problem with the application itself. My problem has always been getting slow release N and getting it at a reasonable price. UFLEXX has answered that for me.

I am right there with Ted. I used UMAXX last year when I dragged a hose and had no problem's at all.

Ric
01-07-2009, 12:19 PM
Yo

Runner made a point many years ago that I remember well. He pointed out that we all want to pound stressed areas more when spraying. But this was wrong because stressed turf can't up take fert as well as healthy turf. He said to apply the same in all areas and as usual Runner's advice you can take to the bank.

sprayboy
01-07-2009, 12:41 PM
Ted,

What kind of pricing are you getting on the ufflex this year.

I am supposed to get pricing this week.

ted putnam
01-07-2009, 04:50 PM
Ted,

What kind of pricing are you getting on the ufflex this year.

I am supposed to get pricing this week.

$23/bag - right here, right now...you know how it is with fert these days :cry: That was the price I got the week of Christmas. I booked 4 tons and may (hopefully) will need more. That was them trucking it in from St. Louis themselves. I hope the price goes down, not up on any extra this Spring.

mngrassguy
01-07-2009, 09:04 PM
I think your referring to blanket apping with a bp sprayer.

Either way, mark off 1000 sq feet with cones in a parking lot or your driveway if long enough. Start at the back with plain water and cover the entire area in 1 min. walking back and forth. No over lap when bp or overlap by 1/3 if spraying with a hose.

Even the seasoned vet should do this once in a while to check their ground speed. Many guys try to saturate the weeds when using a bp. Not good. More is NOT better.

RigglePLC
01-07-2009, 09:45 PM
I am with you Ted And ED, Issues with the hose application of liquid fert: most people do not walk slow enough to do 1000 sqft per min, 1500 sqft per min is more typical (that is about 2 mph). Calibrate accordingly. It is easy to burn the snot out of lawns by mixing fert too strong for the temp. It takes a while to get the hang of it, so you do not get the hose tangled up. Above advice is good--keep looking behind you so that the hose is never twisted--keep it laying flat. Park the truck where you have a staight shot to the far diagonal corner of the back yard. Don't wrap the hose around bird baths (self-correcting mistake). Use a plastic bottle to make a hose guide to protect your hands when rolling up the hose at the reel.

sprayboy
01-07-2009, 10:31 PM
Thanks Ted.

azjojo99
01-07-2009, 11:49 PM
I overlap the sprays 100%. By that I mean if I'm spraying a 12' wide swath (6' to the left, and 6' to the right), I start my second pass 6' away. So there may be a little area that gets 1/2 the dose of fert, but it still gets some. I never had stripping.

Also, you dont see trubrown stripping much, do you? :dizzy:

THC
01-08-2009, 05:46 PM
Elementary question - but I am a rookie at the application side of things so I am asking...

How do you guys 'see' where you have already applied herbicide (like 3 way) when spraying a lawn? I see Trugreen with their trucks and hoses and it looks like they are just randomly covering the lawn. I want more accuracy than that. Is there an organic 'tint' or something like that so you can see where in the heck you have already covered? Just curious.

You're using a back pack right?

I just follow my foot prints and over lap a bit with the spray. Keeping in mind I spray farther to my right then my left (when spraying with the right hand).

THC
01-08-2009, 05:48 PM
I think your referring to blanket apping with a bp sprayer.

Either way, mark off 1000 sq feet with cones in a parking lot or your driveway if long enough. Start at the back with plain water and cover the entire area in 1 min. walking back and forth. No over lap when bp or overlap by 1/3 if spraying with a hose.

Even the seasoned vet should do this once in a while to check their ground speed. Many guys try to saturate the weeds when using a bp. Not good. More is NOT better.
I have a BAD habit doing this..

CHARLES CUE
01-08-2009, 08:50 PM
$23/bag - right here, right now...you know how it is with fert these days :cry: That was the price I got the week of Christmas. I booked 4 tons and may (hopefully) will need more. That was them trucking it in from St. Louis themselves. I hope the price goes down, not up on any extra this Spring.

Thats good price i called about the same time they quoted me 48.00 a bag told the guy he was nuts after reading the label melting down and lowering the rate at higher temp seems like a hassle after just pouring a liquid and not worring about burn.
Charles Cue

rcreech
01-08-2009, 09:14 PM
Thats good price i called about the same time they quoted me 48.00 a bag told the guy he was nuts after reading the label melting down and lowering the rate at higher temp seems like a hassle after just pouring a liquid and not worring about burn.
Charles Cue

Is that why when I back up now it goes....beep, beep, beep. :laugh:

No...I should be about 185-190....but unfortunatly I will start out the season around 225! Unfortunatly it happens every winter!

I will lose all my winter fat come sping...but not from physical labor, just STRESS~! :laugh:

rcreech
01-08-2009, 09:29 PM
Oops! Wrong thread! Sorry!

ted putnam
01-08-2009, 10:02 PM
Thats good price i called about the same time they quoted me 48.00 a bag told the guy he was nuts after reading the label melting down and lowering the rate at higher temp seems like a hassle after just pouring a liquid and not worring about burn.
Charles Cue

Estes still had it for $36 at the same time. I think they were (and probably still are) hoping people would pay it. Not me. I've priced all kinds of liquid and haven't found anything that has a price comparable. My pump eats bags of urea for a snack,:laugh: melting it is not a problem...

americanlawn
01-08-2009, 10:25 PM
I forgot one thing (probably forgot many more too) -- yet maybe the most important? Anyway, when you finish your pass,
Take 3 or 4 steps over -- then make your next pass. For me, it's 3 to 3 1/2 steps, but for shorter guys, it might be 4 steps.

jspray
01-09-2009, 12:32 AM
I don't doubt that a good even application can be made with a hose and handgun--by someone very experienced who is a craftsman with this type application.
However this year I was called to look at a St. Augustine lawn that a national co. tech. must have used a loose 200 psi fire hose on with severe damage from metsulfuron in the over application spots. The co. paid $12,000 for a sod job.
A centipede lawn, a friend called me to, was treated with a hose and gun by a local licensed and advertised applicator, and damage was severe from a 3-way in the over application spots.
We have used back pack sprayers, walk behind sprayers, and a utility vehicle sprayer that give an even reproducible pattern--one that results from known speed, nozzle flow, and application width.
We honestly are afraid of handgun applications for lawns.

Good spraying,

Bill J.

greendoctor
01-09-2009, 01:29 AM
I don't doubt that a good even application can be made with a hose and handgun--by someone very experienced who is a craftsman with this type application.
However this year I was called to look at a St. Augustine lawn that a national co. tech. must have used a loose 200 psi fire hose on with severe damage from metsulfuron in the over application spots. The co. paid $12,000 for a sod job.
A centipede lawn, a friend called me to, was treated with a hose and gun by a local licensed and advertised applicator, and damage was severe from a 3-way in the over application spots.
We have used back pack sprayers, walk behind sprayers, and a utility vehicle sprayer that give an even reproducible pattern--one that results from known speed, nozzle flow, and application width.
We honestly are afraid of handgun applications for lawns.

Good spraying,

Bill J.

I only use a sprinkler nozzle and hose for fertilizers being applied at 5 gallons/M. Otherwise, it goes through either a single fan nozzle held stationary or a walking boom. I once did an experiment with a backpack wand swung left and right on concrete. The results would have left me worn out from having to move the wand back and forth, not to mention a good possibility of any lawn I spray ending up with green zebra stripes if it were fertilizer or brown stripes if it were some kind of herbicide. I did the same thing with a Lesco 1.5 GPM nozzle. Same result and the fact that it is rough keeping the spray on target. I have been spraying lawns since I was 19, never have I owed anyone a lawn or shrubs due to misapplication or spray drift. Yes, what I do is not as fast as a Lesco lawn gun or a backpack wand, but I am a professional, not a participant in the race to the bottom. My clients have been burnt before, literally, by hotshots/idiots, spot spraying or swinging a wand. I can assure everyone I do business with that their lawn and surrounding ornamentals will not be damaged by my applications. In 2007, I applied 1/2 oz. of metsulfuron and Quicksilver to an acre of st augustine in 90F heat. No damage at all. At that time, all I had was my engine drive backpack and a walking boom. The acre was covered in 2 hours using 50 GPA.

sprayboy
01-09-2009, 05:25 PM
I don't doubt that a good even application can be made with a hose and handgun--by someone very experienced who is a craftsman with this type application.
However this year I was called to look at a St. Augustine lawn that a national co. tech. must have used a loose 200 psi fire hose on with severe damage from metsulfuron in the over application spots. The co. paid $12,000 for a sod job.
A centipede lawn, a friend called me to, was treated with a hose and gun by a local licensed and advertised applicator, and damage was severe from a 3-way in the over application spots.
We have used back pack sprayers, walk behind sprayers, and a utility vehicle sprayer that give an even reproducible pattern--one that results from known speed, nozzle flow, and application width.
We honestly are afraid of handgun applications for lawns.

Good spraying,

Bill J.


Over application and burn on any lawn does not mean that it was due to hose spraying. Probably misapplied by the tech, which can be the same result with a backpack or any self propelled unit with a boom.

Boom sprayers are not perfect in coverage either as there are slopes and hills that effect speed and obstacles to go around that can cause over applying in some areas. Not getting the exact distance away from your last pass can either give you a skip or over application.

Lawns with an angle on one side can be problems with booms also as you need to shut off nozzles as you meet your trim pass along that angled property line.

tlg
01-09-2009, 09:21 PM
Using a chemlawn type gun is probably the most widely used method of choice for lawn spraying. They have been in use for more than 40 years. A good quality sprayer and operator should have no problem doing a good job with this kind of set up. Well calibrated equipment and trained applicator are all you need to have. Iv'e trained many people over the years, most can get the hang of it after a few days. Technique and precision come with time and experience. It's not rocket science.

jspray
01-10-2009, 02:12 AM
We are now in the time of highly active low dose sulfonyl-urea herbicides that have foliar activity and soil activity. Rates are from .1 oz./acre to 2oz./acre and include metsulfuron, chlorsulfuron, halosulfuron, trifloxysulfuron, sulfosulfuron, and others.

Here in the transition zone we use many of these materials on warm season turf--halosulfuron can be used on cool or warm season. Application rate and uniformity of application is critical.

There indeed are overlaps with boom or other fixed nozzle sprayers such as the new breed of stand-ons. Generally this is double overlap at the ends. These spray systems generally will not have 3x or 4x over-application problems.

What we have seen here behind handguns has not been good. Maybe these folks have not been trained. I would never recommend that a new applicator spray a lawn with a handgun. Additionally I have never heard an extension agent or other pesticide trainer recommend this method of application for lawns.

I respect anyone who has developed a method to professionally apply pesticides to a lawn.